For Ropey: U.S. Genocide in the Philippines

[Sallow]

For Ropey:

Bad things happen all the time.

U.S. Genocide in the Philippines
A Case of Guilt, Shame, or Amnesia?
Tuesday March 22nd, 2005, by E. San Juan, Jr.

Very few people know what the Filipino-American War of 1899-1902 was all about, even though historian Bernard Fall called it America’s "First Vietnam." Amid the war in Iraq following the invasion of Afghanistan, can we still learn from history?

Except during the sixties when the Filipino-American War of 1899-1902 was referred to as “the first Vietnam,” the death of 1.4 million Filipinos has been usually accounted for as either collateral damage or victims of insurrection against the imperial authority of the United States. The first Filipino scholar to make a thorough documentation of the carnage is the late Luzviminda Francisco in her contribution to The Philippines: The End of An Illusion (London, 1973).
Likas - Philippines : Kasaysayan (Philippine History) - U.S. Genocide in the Philippines

And that's not all..

Genocides in history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sallow]

And interestingly enough.

Ropey fails to respond.

Even to "hijack" the thread.

 

[Synthaholic]

Filipinos aren't trying to get supplies to Palestinians, so Ropey doesn't care.

 

[High_Gravity]

I'll have to read up on this before I post a comment, I did read some stuff on this conflict a while back but I need a refresh.

 

[Sallow]

Filipinos aren't trying to get supplies to Palestinians, so Ropey doesn't care.

As what was my contention on yet another thread about the Armenian Genocide.

It's not the Genocide that's his concern.

 

[Ropey]

^^ Fucking morons.

You create a thread and then say I am afraid to respond while we are posting in another thread?

Cowardly and moronic.

I just read it now.

 

[Ropey]

Now we've been discussing for more than a few hours in that other thread.

I have things to do and will be back to respond to this later.

If you don't mind, that is.

 

[California Girl]

^^ Fucking morons.

You create a thread and then say I am afraid to respond while we are posting in another thread?

Cowardly and moronic.

I just read it now.

It's the husteria of the left, they can't cope with being ignored.

Sallow is looking kinda shallow these days.

 

[Sallow]

^^ Fucking morons.

You create a thread and then say I am afraid to respond while we are posting in another thread?

Cowardly and moronic.

I just read it now.

Well..my contention is that you really don't give a rat's ass about Genocide..and you are interested in throwing a NATO ally under the bus.

And a NATO ally that helped the Jewish people during WWII. Why? Because of the ongoing dispute between Israel and Turkey.

The genocide in the Philippines occurred at about the same time. And it's about the same number of people.

Nothing from you on it.

Ever.

Or genocides in general. Except for the one in Germany and the Armenian one.

 

[Ropey]

^^ Fucking morons.

You create a thread and then say I am afraid to respond while we are posting in another thread?

Cowardly and moronic.

I just read it now.

Well..my contention is that you really don't give a rat's ass about Genocide..and you are interested in throwing a NATO ally under the bus.

Prove this. (not the moron attachment, that's already proven)

And a NATO ally that helped the Jewish people during WWII. Why? Because of the ongoing dispute between Israel and Turkey.

Prove this. Show me where I have said this.

The genocide in the Philippines occurred at about the same time. And it's about the same number of people.

Nothing from you on it.

Ever.

Where is the thread? I haven't seen it. If it is here, and posted as a genocide in the title then either I missed it or it was before I came here. I post in the Darfur and Sudan threads.

Prove this as well.

Or genocides in general. Except for the one in Germany and the Armenian one.

Where is a thread about our personal views about Genocide in general? See above and then.

Prove this as well.

Edit:

And now I really must go.

 

[martybegan]

For Ropey:

Bad things happen all the time.

U.S. Genocide in the Philippines
A Case of Guilt, Shame, or Amnesia?
Tuesday March 22nd, 2005, by E. San Juan, Jr.

Very few people know what the Filipino-American War of 1899-1902 was all about, even though historian Bernard Fall called it America’s "First Vietnam." Amid the war in Iraq following the invasion of Afghanistan, can we still learn from history?

Except during the sixties when the Filipino-American War of 1899-1902 was referred to as “the first Vietnam,” the death of 1.4 million Filipinos has been usually accounted for as either collateral damage or victims of insurrection against the imperial authority of the United States. The first Filipino scholar to make a thorough documentation of the carnage is the late Luzviminda Francisco in her contribution to The Philippines: The End of An Illusion (London, 1973).
Likas - Philippines : Kasaysayan (Philippine History) - U.S. Genocide in the Philippines

And that's not all..

Genocides in history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure this falls under the catagory of genocide. Genocide means the attempt to eliminate a specific group, regardless of their status as combatants. In the phillipines it was an inssurrection, and the US's goal was pacification, not elimination. They didnt want all phillipinos dead, or want them to leave the phillipines. While you may consider the civillian deaths amoral or war crimes, it does not consitutute genocide.

 

[Sallow]

^^ Fucking morons.

You create a thread and then say I am afraid to respond while we are posting in another thread?

Cowardly and moronic.

I just read it now.

Well..my contention is that you really don't give a rat's ass about Genocide..and you are interested in throwing a NATO ally under the bus.

Prove this.



Prove this. Show me where I have said this.

The genocide in the Philippines occurred at about the same time. And it's about the same number of people.

Nothing from you on it.

Ever.

Where is the thread? I haven't seen it. If it is here, and posted as a genocide in the title then either I missed it or it was before I came here. I post in the Darfur and Sudan threads.

Prove this as well.

Or genocides in general. Except for the one in Germany and the Armenian one.

Where is a thread about our personal views about Genocide in general? See above and then.

Prove this as well.

Prove what?

Where's your thread about the Filipino genocide?
Where's your thread about the Turks helping the Jewish people during WWII?
Where's any thread you started about the Sudan?


Basically, I don't care if you are Israel centric. That's fine. But Turkey's been a good ally to the United States. And it's in America's interest to keep it that way.

Bottom line is I care far more about America then I do Israel.

And yeah..I don't like Genocide in general.

 

[Sallow]

For Ropey:

Bad things happen all the time.

U.S. Genocide in the Philippines
A Case of Guilt, Shame, or Amnesia?
Tuesday March 22nd, 2005, by E. San Juan, Jr.

Very few people know what the Filipino-American War of 1899-1902 was all about, even though historian Bernard Fall called it America’s "First Vietnam." Amid the war in Iraq following the invasion of Afghanistan, can we still learn from history?

Except during the sixties when the Filipino-American War of 1899-1902 was referred to as “the first Vietnam,” the death of 1.4 million Filipinos has been usually accounted for as either collateral damage or victims of insurrection against the imperial authority of the United States. The first Filipino scholar to make a thorough documentation of the carnage is the late Luzviminda Francisco in her contribution to The Philippines: The End of An Illusion (London, 1973).
Likas - Philippines : Kasaysayan (Philippine History) - U.S. Genocide in the Philippines

And that's not all..

Genocides in history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure this falls under the catagory of genocide. Genocide means the attempt to eliminate a specific group, regardless of their status as combatants. In the phillipines it was an inssurrection, and the US's goal was pacification, not elimination. They didnt want all phillipinos dead, or want them to leave the phillipines. While you may consider the civillian deaths amoral or war crimes, it does not consitutute genocide.

That's the contention of the Turks as well.

 

[martybegan]

For Ropey:

Bad things happen all the time.



And that's not all..

Genocides in history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure this falls under the catagory of genocide. Genocide means the attempt to eliminate a specific group, regardless of their status as combatants. In the phillipines it was an inssurrection, and the US's goal was pacification, not elimination. They didnt want all phillipinos dead, or want them to leave the phillipines. While you may consider the civillian deaths amoral or war crimes, it does not consitutute genocide.

That's the contention of the Turks as well.

With the turks you saw a deliberate attempt to either kill off or get rid of the armenians, which is a different situation. The US didnt want the fillipinos to go to taiwan or anywhere else. Even during the fighting the political view was that the phillipines would eventually be given self determination, followed by independence.

When you are going for genocide, you typically dont try to let the locals establish self rule (Judenraat excluded), recruit locals to your side (sonderkommando don't count), or try to establish systems of education for the people you are trying to remove/kill off.

 

[Sallow]

I'm not sure this falls under the catagory of genocide. Genocide means the attempt to eliminate a specific group, regardless of their status as combatants. In the phillipines it was an inssurrection, and the US's goal was pacification, not elimination. They didnt want all phillipinos dead, or want them to leave the phillipines. While you may consider the civillian deaths amoral or war crimes, it does not consitutute genocide.

That's the contention of the Turks as well.

With the turks you saw a deliberate attempt to either kill off or get rid of the armenians, which is a different situation. The US didnt want the fillipinos to go to taiwan or anywhere else. Even during the fighting the political view was that the phillipines would eventually be given self determination, followed by independence.

When you are going for genocide, you typically dont try to let the locals establish self rule (Judenraat excluded), recruit locals to your side (sonderkommando don't count), or try to establish systems of education for the people you are trying to remove/kill off.

Actually..I don't really see the difference here. About the same number of people died as well. The US was contending that the Philippines belonged to the US. The Turks were contending that Istanbul belong to them.

 

[High_Gravity]

What value did the US see in the Phillippines? do they have oil?

 

[Sallow]

What value did the US see in the Phillippines? do they have oil?

Was a different time.

US had won the Philippines as a prize in the Spanish American War.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tAgg3OCtls]YouTube - ‪Spanish American War the Philippines and Filipino Genocide 5‬‏[/ame]

 

[martybegan]

What value did the US see in the Phillippines? do they have oil?

Was a different time.

US had won the Philippines as a prize in the Spanish American War.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tAgg3OCtls]YouTube - ‪Spanish American War the Philippines and Filipino Genocide 5‬‏[/ame]

EVERYONE was getting colonies those days, even the freaky deaky dutch.

 

[Sallow]

What value did the US see in the Phillippines? do they have oil?

Was a different time.

US had won the Philippines as a prize in the Spanish American War.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tAgg3OCtls]YouTube - ‪Spanish American War the Philippines and Filipino Genocide 5‬‏[/ame]

EVERYONE was getting colonies those days, even the freaky deaky dutch.

Ah..the good ol' days.

 

[martybegan]

That's the contention of the Turks as well.

With the turks you saw a deliberate attempt to either kill off or get rid of the armenians, which is a different situation. The US didnt want the fillipinos to go to taiwan or anywhere else. Even during the fighting the political view was that the phillipines would eventually be given self determination, followed by independence.

When you are going for genocide, you typically dont try to let the locals establish self rule (Judenraat excluded), recruit locals to your side (sonderkommando don't count), or try to establish systems of education for the people you are trying to remove/kill off.

Actually..I don't really see the difference here. About the same number of people died as well. The US was contending that the Philippines belonged to the US. The Turks were contending that Istanbul belong to them.

The difference was that killing the armenians had no real relation to keeping istanbul. There was no military value, besides getting rid if people who dont like you, to the mass migration and extermination of armenians. In the phillipines the US used a tactic of corralling civillians in camps, so they could gun for eveyone else remaining (the logic of outside of camp = rebel). The deaths in the camps were due to disease, not a systemic approach to kill filipinos. You can call the camp thing barbaric and a war crime, but its still not genocide. The US goal was not to kill every filipino, just the rebels. In the case of the Turks, ANY armenian was a target for either death or exodus. Same with the Jews in Germany in WWII.

My view on this is based on people not using words that invoke horror for any reason less than what they were intended for. Starting to call any group of deaths genocide weakens the term.

As an aside, Cambodia is a wierd one, in that it was cambodians killing cambodians. I think that is genocide, but it doesnt fit into my definition well, I admit.