Florida Grand Jury Report Vindicates 5 Spot-On Covid Claims You Weren’t Allowed To Say, released report on its investigation into Pharma malfeasance

[Catsnmeters]

The real issue was how people reacted. Never forget how people screw with you. And never forget the ones who did it. Unfortunately, in times of duress, many others get affected when revenge is applied. Despot states have killed many of their own. If people do not fight it, then a malaise envelops. The nation slowly dies from people not seeing anything in it for them but a lousy life under harsh dictatorial scrutiny. Work becomes sloppier as positive attributes diminishes. People sell out each other to have their master's acceptance of them. We are doing it here. A lot of it the same some done differently. Earlier in the rounds for some of it as compared to others.

I disagree that what you wrote is the real issue.

I believe the real issue is people claiming masks offer zero or near zero protection when that is not true.

 

[Catsnmeters]

they didn't help enough to be forced on anyone like a religious talisman.

Certainly you are entitled to your opinion.

How many lives would masks have to save in order for you to wear one?

Bullshit. They were sold as shields, not sieves.

You have yet to provide an example to that opinion.

They were sold as helping mitigate the spread.

Again, not enough to make enough of a difference to force everyone to use them and then not really care how well they were used.

How much is enough of a difference?

 

[martybegan]

Certainly you are entitled to your opinion.

How many lives would masks have to save in order for you to wear one?



You have yet to provide an example to that opinion.

They were sold as helping mitigate the spread.


How much is enough of a difference?

I wore one in the beginning, but then realized they were not as effective as people were claiming. At that point I only went to see people at risk like my 100 year old grandfather or early 70's parents if I knew I wasn't exposed for a full week.

All you provide about your worship of masks is "my betters told me they work and wear them OR ELSE"

How much evidence that they were marginally effective at best will it take for you to admit you were willing had like the lemming you are?

 

[Catsnmeters]

I wore one in the beginning, but then realized they were not as effective as people were claiming. At that point I only went to see people at risk like my 100 year old grandfather or early 70's parents if I knew I wasn't exposed for a full week.

All you provide about your worship of masks is "my betters told me they work and wear them OR ELSE"

That isn't what I provided.

I provided common sense facts that even disposable masks will block saliva droplets that contain the virus.

How much evidence that they were marginally effective at best will it take for you to admit you were willing had like the lemming you are?

If they saved a few lives it is worth it.

 

[martybegan]

That isn't what I provided.

I provided common sense facts that even disposable masks will block saliva droplets that contain the virus.


If they saved a few lives it is worth it.

what facts? You provided micro level facts and then extrapolated them to defending macro level policies based on assumptions, not facts.

No, that isn't reality. Reality is they probably led to additional deaths due to overconfidence in at risk people.

 

[Catsnmeters]

what facts? You provided micro level facts and then extrapolated them to defending macro level policies based on assumptions, not facts.

So you disagree that masks, even disposable ones, will catch saliva droplets and or that those droplets can contain the virus?

No, that isn't reality. Reality is they probably led to additional deaths due to overconfidence in at risk people.

I don't think people were as confident as you seemed to be and I am not certain why you were that confident because you won't tell me any specifics.

 

[martybegan]

So you disagree that masks, even disposable ones, will catch saliva droplets and or that those droplets can contain the virus?


I don't think people were as confident as you seemed to be and I am not certain why you were that confident because you won't tell me any specifics.

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm saying the ones being used and the way they were used didn't do enough to mandate forcing everyone to use them, and assuming they worked good enough to stop enough people from getting sick.

What specifics are you giving? You are providing factual tidbits that have nothing to do with the argument over policy.

 

[Catsnmeters]

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm saying the ones being used and the way they were used didn't do enough to mandate forcing everyone to use them, and assuming they worked good enough to stop enough people from getting sick.

Didn't do enough? How many lives need to be saved before you think it's enough?

What specifics are you giving? You are providing factual tidbits that have nothing to do with the argument over policy.

The specifics that even disposable masks stop droplets of saliva and droplets of saliva contain the virus.

 

[martybegan]

Didn't do enough? How many lives need to be saved before you think it's enough?


The specifics that even disposable masks stop droplets of saliva and droplets of saliva contain the virus.

How many lives were actually saved? Vs. how many lives lost due to overconfidence, reduced breathing, and other side effects?

Again, the question is how effective it was vs. what was promised or implied.

 

[Catsnmeters]

How many lives were actually saved? Vs. how many lives lost due to overconfidence, reduced breathing, and other side effects?

"We quantify the effect of statewide mask mandates in the United States in 2020. Our regression discontinuity design exploits county-level variation in COVID-19 outcomes across the border between states with and without mandates. State mask mandates reduced new weekly COVID-19 cases, hospital admissions, and deaths by 55, 11, and 0.7 per 100,000 inhabitants on average. The effect depends on political leaning with larger effects in Democratic-leaning counties. Our results imply that statewide mandates saved 87,000 lives through December 19, 2020, while a nationwide mandate could have saved 57,000 additional lives. This suggests that mask mandates can help counter pandemics, particularly if widely accepted."

Mask mandates save lives

We quantify the effect of statewide mask mandates in the United States in 2020. Our regression discontinuity design exploits county-level variation in COVID-19 outcomes across the border between states with and without mandates. State mask mandates reduced ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

People died from reduced breathing? Never heard of that. How many?

What other side effects?

Again, the question is how effective it was vs. what was promised or implied.

Considering what was implied is simply your opinion, I am unable to answer that question.

 

[martybegan]

"We quantify the effect of statewide mask mandates in the United States in 2020. Our regression discontinuity design exploits county-level variation in COVID-19 outcomes across the border between states with and without mandates. State mask mandates reduced new weekly COVID-19 cases, hospital admissions, and deaths by 55, 11, and 0.7 per 100,000 inhabitants on average. The effect depends on political leaning with larger effects in Democratic-leaning counties. Our results imply that statewide mandates saved 87,000 lives through December 19, 2020, while a nationwide mandate could have saved 57,000 additional lives. This suggests that mask mandates can help counter pandemics, particularly if widely accepted."

Mask mandates save lives

We quantify the effect of statewide mask mandates in the United States in 2020. Our regression discontinuity design exploits county-level variation in COVID-19 outcomes across the border between states with and without mandates. State mask mandates reduced ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

People died from reduced breathing? Never heard of that. How many?

What other side effects?


Considering what was implied is simply your opinion, I am unable to answer that question.

Studies like that are worthless, they are based on way too many assumptions.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Studies like that are worthless, they are based on way too many assumptions.

So you will never have an answer to your question and will reject any study that results in an answer you don't like.

That makes it easy for you doesn't it?

How do you feel about the study in the OP?

 

[martybegan]

So you will never have an answer to your question and will reject any study that results in an answer you don't like.

That makes it easy for you doesn't it?

How do you feel about the study in the OP?

It's not a study of any real meaning. Trying assume things like "additional deaths" adds far too many variables to make it meaningful.

The OP is just showing things that were treated as heresy during and right after the pandemic are now being shown to be not as clear cut.

 

[Marener]

I'm saying the ones being used and the way they were used didn't do enough to mandate forcing everyone to use them, and assuming they worked good enough to stop enough people from getting sick.

This opinion is worthless because it’s based on too many assumptions.

 

[martybegan]

This opinion is worthless because it’s based on too many assumptions.

I'm not trying to ruin people or shut them in over forced masking.

And I know my opinions are just that, unlike clods like you that like to parade your opinions as fact.

 

[Catsnmeters]

It's not a study of any real meaning. Trying assume things like "additional deaths" adds far too many variables to make it meaningful.

So again, you asked a question for which you could be provided with no acceptable answer.

The OP is just showing things that were treated as heresy during and right after the pandemic are now being shown to be not as clear cut.

The study in the OP asserted that masks provided no protection and it too was based on many assumptions and ultimately refuted, yet you defend it.

Not good faith reasoning.

 

[martybegan]

So again, you asked a question for which you could be provided with no acceptable answer.


The study in the OP asserted that masks provided no protection and it too was based on many assumptions and ultimately refuted, yet you defend it.

Not good faith reasoning.

The answer is masking was overrated and foisted on people in a panic over "just doing something".

Along the way it gave overconfidence to at risk people while punishing those at less risk.

Like the masking of children.

Show me where it said "no protection". Those exact words.

 

[Catsnmeters]

The answer is masking was overrated and foisted on people in a panic over "just doing something".

That isn't what was claimed in the original post.

" 5. Masks Don’t Work"

Along the way it gave overconfidence to at risk people while punishing those at less risk.

No it didn't. It made you overconfident and you are projecting your opinion on everyone else to attempt to make an argument.

Like the masking of children.

Non sequitur. Children were at low risk. We all know this. We all have known it for a long time. We didn't need random Florida jurors to come to that conclusion.

Children were required to wear masks to help prevent the spread among other children who would then take it home to mom and dad or grandma and grandpa.

Show me where it said "no protection". Those exact words.

Here are exact words that translate into no protection.

"5. Masks Don’t Work"

 

[martybegan]

That isn't what was claimed in the original post.

" 5. Masks Don’t Work"



No it didn't. It made you overconfident and you are projecting your opinion on everyone else to attempt to make an argument.



Non sequitur. Children were at low risk. We all know this. We all have known it for a long time. We didn't need random Florida jurors to come to that conclusion.

Children were required to wear masks to help prevent the spread among other children who would then take it home to mom and dad or grandma and grandpa.


Here are exact words that translate into no protection.

"5. Masks Don’t Work"

My statement is masks don't work as well as people said they did.

And yet they were forced to wear masks all the time.

Children being able to spread it asymptomatically has never really been shown.

Again, if you were in a risk group, you should have been told "masks won't work for your risk"

 

[Marener]

I'm not trying to ruin people or shut them in over forced masking.

And I know my opinions are just that, unlike clods like you that like to parade your opinions as fact.

Not all opinions are created equal.