Flight 93 families ask Bush to OK land seizure

[Anguille]

Do you mind if we take your house for a "reasonable price", demolish it, and make a memorial for the flight 93 victims then?

I mean, if you're so willing to defend that it's fair then you must be willing to give up your own home for a "reasonable price" then no?

People should think about how they might feel it this was their property being taken. My grandparent's home was taken by emminent domain at below market value and their home torn down. It was devastating to my grandfather who had just lost my grandmother whose ashes were buried in the garden. Years later we are somewhat happy the land became part of a beautiful state park but still, it was a family gathering place with many memories that was taken from us.

 

[Anguille]

So, like Kevin, you think the law is wrong?

No, I do not think the law is wrong, I think this particular use of the law is wrong. It does not serve a greater public need that out weighs the needs of the property owner.

 

[Anguille]

just fuck off
you are not really interested in honest dicussion of this issue
you just want to disagree with me
so just fuck off and stay out of it

you are free to ask your stupid fucking set up questions to anyone else
but you dont exist to me. you are a fucking MORON

If you don't like his posts, just don't read them and spare the rest of us your infantile outbursts.

 

[DiveCon]

If you don't like his posts, just don't read them and spare the rest of us your infantile outbursts.

take your own advice

 

[tigerbob]

Doesn't make it's being spent on a project like this any less wasteful.

Some people think that money spent on AIDS treatments is wasteful because homosexuals are sinners.

Some people think that sending food aid to starving African children is wasteful because we have our own problems here in the USA.

Altruism is often in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Anguille]

take your own advice

haha!! Ya got me there! But I can't resist your posts. 99% of the time they are assinine but it's that 1% of brilliance that I live for.

 

[Anguille]

Some people think that money spent on AIDS treatments is wasteful because homosexuals are sinners.

Some people think that sending food aid to starving African children is wasteful because we have our own problems here in the USA.

Altruism is often in the eye of the beholder.

I'd rather see this money spent on AIDS research or humanitarian aid to Africa than on another expensive memorial marker. I think we already have enough of them around.

 

[tigerbob]

However, that would mean the government wouldn't have to steal your property from you because you would have already willingly sold it, which is your right. If you did not wish to sell your own property for "fair market value" then it would be stealing for the government to take your property at that rate.

Yes, I know your view. But that wasn't his question.

I guess if I ever own 200 acres and don't use it for a decade and then the government offers me fair market value to sell it, I suppose it is conceivable that I might suddenly fall in love with it so much that the thought of parting with it is too traumatic to contemplate. Ask me when it happens.

 

[tigerbob]

I'd rather see this money spent on AIDS research or humanitarian aid to Africa than on another expensive memorial marker. I think we already have enough of them around.

Yes. If only people would stop dying tragically, we wouldn't need any more. Selfish bastards.

 

[Modbert]

just fuck off
you are not really interested in honest dicussion of this issue
you just want to disagree with me
so just fuck off and stay out of it

you are free to ask your stupid fucking set up questions to anyone else
but you dont exist to me. you are a fucking MORON

Notice how you don't answer it.

I guess the moral high ground in which you pretend to have is a myth.

 

[Modbert]

I don't think this has been asked yet but:

What price is considered "reasonable"?

And about that price, how much higher is it then what the land was bought for? And another question, do the owners of the land really want to keep it?

I understand the owners rejected a price because they felt it wasn't good enough.

That would be something like the following if we applied this concept to outside this:

Person 1: I will buy your house for a "reasonable price".

Person 2: What price is that?

Person 1 writes out a check and hands to Person 2.

Person 2: That's not reasonable, I refuse.

Person 1: Too bad, either you take it or I will get the government to come and take your land away because it is morally right. See how much of a "reasonable price" you get then.

Person 2: This is America, I have the right to refuse to sell to you.

Person 1: Rights? You have no rights when the Government has a say here.

 

[tigerbob]

People should think about how they might feel it this was their property being taken. My grandparent's home was taken by emminent domain at below market value and their home torn down. It was devastating to my grandfather who had just lost my grandmother whose ashes were buried in the garden. Years later we are somewhat happy the land became part of a beautiful state park but still, it was a family gathering place with many memories that was taken from us.

The thing is, in this case we're not talking about anyone's house. We're talking about a field that is slightly overgrown and 10 years ago was a mine.

It's only my opinion, but what's the emotional attachment there? If there was one, I'm sure the owners would have mentioned it in their statements to the press.

 

[Modbert]

I'll answer your question (I know it wasn't meant for me) if you'll answer mine (post 88).

If the plane had crashed onto my house, assuming I was still alive, then yes I would be happy to sell it at fair market value for a memorial to be created. In fact, I would be quite proud to do so.

What do you consider "fair market price"?

With the recent housing crisis, the amount a house/land is worth has dropped considerably. Probably much more then a year ago.

Houses in the U.S have lost value over $2 trillion in the first three quarters of 2008 alone.

So a "fair market price" might be even lower then what you paid for it originally. Does that sound fair?

Trust me, I myself would be proud to sell my land for a memorial. However, I'd doubt I'd get a fair price in this day and age while most likely be making a loss.

 

[tigerbob]

No, I do not think the law is wrong, I think this particular use of the law is wrong. It does not serve a greater public need that out weighs the needs of the property owner.

The needs of the owner to have 200 acres of fields that he is not using? As I recall, after 9/11 there was a huge public outcry in favor of a memorial to those who died.

 

[Anguille]

The thing is, in this case we're not talking about anyone's house. We're talking about a field that is slightly overgrown and 10 years ago was a mine.

It's only my opinion, but what's the emotional attachment there? If there was one, I'm sure the owners would have mentioned it in their statements to the press.

I really don't know if they have an emotional attachment or if the governmnet offered a fair price. But I still think that it would be wrong to take private land for the purpose of building a memorial. The land is better left to nature and the money better spent on more practical matters. I don't think this memorial warrents taking the land forcibly like this. I would even be opposed to the memorial if the owners wanted to sell. Like I said before, we have more than enough already. The money would be best spent on fullfilling real needs. That would be a greater honor to those who died.

 

[Xenophon]

Why is a crime scene needed for a 'memorial?'

 

[tigerbob]

What do you consider "fair market price"?

With the recent housing crisis, the amount a house/land is worth has dropped considerably. Probably much more then a year ago.

Houses in the U.S have lost value over $2 trillion in the first three quarters of 2008 alone.

So a "fair market price" might be even lower then what you paid for it originally. Does that sound fair?

Trust me, I myself would be proud to sell my land for a memorial. However, I'd doubt I'd get a fair price in this day and age while most likely be making a loss.

OK, I'll answer (again) but I'll ask you to answer my earlier question (again). Since I've asked politely (twice), perhaps you'll consider doing it now?

I need to answer your question 3 ways.

1. I am trying to sell some land and the remains of a house that a plane recently landed on

In this case, I guess it would be a negotiation between the insurance company and the government (the purchaser). After rebiuld costs are factored in, the element open for discussion is simply a land value issue. See answer number 2.

2. The government wants to buy my house. The house is fine - no planes have dropped on it, but prices have dropped since I bought it.

Assuming all prices have dropped, I can accept the offer and get a similar house at a similarly lower price.

3. The government doesn't want to buy my house. It wants to buy my field (the one I haven't used for 10 years) because a plane dropped on it.

On this basis, if real estate prices are still falling, I can take the government's money now and either invest it in something else, or buy more land when the market bottoms out. With the current economic climate and the requirement to keep assets as close to liquid as possible, I might just be pretty damn pleased to have been offered fair market value for a piece of land I'm not using and that probably nobody else wanted to buy.

 

[tigerbob]

I don't think this has been asked yet but:

What price is considered "reasonable"?

And about that price, how much higher is it then what the land was bought for? And another question, do the owners of the land really want to keep it?

I understand the owners rejected a price because they felt it wasn't good enough.

That would be something like the following if we applied this concept to outside this:

Person 1: I will buy your house for a "reasonable price".

Person 2: What price is that?

Person 1 writes out a check and hands to Person 2.

Person 2: That's not reasonable, I refuse.

Person 1: Too bad, either you take it or I will get the government to come and take your land away because it is morally right. See how much of a "reasonable price" you get then.

Person 2: This is America, I have the right to refuse to sell to you.

Person 1: Rights? You have no rights when the Government has a say here.

Person 2: You are wrong. The government has to go through the courts.

 

[tigerbob]

That would be a greater honor to those who died.

For maybe 10 minutes. Then everyone would forget about it.

 

[Anguille]

Person 2: You are wrong. The government has to go through the courts.

More waste of public funds.