CDZ Feminism promotes prostitution?

[danielpalos]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

When you say getting paid, I think cost of a wife is millions of dollars over a life time. $350 is nothing. A wife gets my life, my home, my entire wage, my retirement, my investments, my everything. If a wife only cost $350, there would not be a single guy on the face of the Earth.

Anyway....
First off, I'm just reading what other women have written, and commenting on it.

Second, as I said before, these women from other countries seem to be able to meet their husbands need, and do so without complaining.

Are they all superheroines? Or is it a matter of priorities and making time?

Third, again for thousands of years, women have been able to do this.

The one difference between then and now, I would argue is that women because of the feminist movement, all want their own careers and high demand, high stress jobs.

So I gasp that after you spend all day at the office and you are exhausted, then you come home and still have to do all the chores in the home, then you have nothing left for your husband... yeah I get that.

Whose fault is that?

As these ladies in the article said... many of these men are paying them, not even to have sex, but just to have someone to talk to. The biggest need a man wants from a women outside of sex, is simply to have her believe in him, and support him. When he doesn't get that from home, he goes to someone else.

Now getting that intimate need met, naturally leads to close-ness and ultimately sex. That's why most affairs are started not for sexual needs, but for intimacy reasons. It's not because his office assistant had big breasts, or walked around in lingerie at the office.

It's because when he said "I was thinking about doing (x)" she said "Oh really? Tell me about that. That sounds like a great idea".

You know, I can't help but think of my sister. She's got this. When she needs alone time with her husband, she just kicks the kids out. Literally, you all go outside and play. "I don't wanna" Too bad, out. She simply makes time. By the way, she has 6 kids.

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Here is where, poly forms of andry may have been beneficial. In some cultures, women get the second son along with the eldest son as husbands; due to the more severe conditions.

Women may have some claim, especially if the right insists we can lower taxes for the rich, increase military spending, and continue providing a capital gains preference for capitalists of wealth, while not creating Jobs Booms for, "single Husbands".

No thanks, one is plenty for me to tackle, lol

What if the second husband had an income, and could provide the first husband with tools and material, to "help around the house".

Some guys just need an income to be useful.

 

[grbb]

Nowadays muslims make more babies than christians and atheists. Why?

Polygamy. The rich in muslim countries just breed. Yes it has side effects. Guys really want to be rich there they do anything. Rebel. Be king. Be tyrants. But it does have it's positive.

Western civilization is filled with too many welfare parasites. If the rich have more babies, and that means with more women, and most likely outside marriage, then you can have your population problem solved.

 

[kellyd]

Nowadays muslims make more babies than christians and atheists. Why?

Polygamy. The rich in muslim countries just breed. Yes it has side effects. Guys really want to be rich there they do anything. Rebel. Be king. Be tyrants. But it does have it's positive.

Western civilization is filled with too many welfare parasites. If the rich have more babies, and that means with more women, and most likely outside marriage, then you can have your population problem solved.

Not if the rich are rapidly becoming a fraction of the population. I know I decided our family was big enough due to the economic uncertainty of the crash. Lots of people would like bigger families, if it was easier to survive on one salary, or if supports were better for low income workers. It's not Muslims fault that conditions are so family unfriendly here

And by the way, I served in the ME for over a decade, and only met a handful of multiple marriages. It's legal, but uncommon

 

[grbb]

If you have more money and you get it productively, the world will be better places if you have more children. Or at least I think that way.

Western laws and western custom makes it difficult for the rich to do so. Which is the whole topic of getrichbangbabes.com

 

[Andylusion]

I'm confused why you are saying 'fix it or get out".

That's kind of been my point. Don't get married if you don't want to be a wife.

OR.... just accept that your husband is going to run around loving on women other than you.

If you are perfectly fine with your husband running off to talk with these escorts... ok. Great. I can't imagine how you'd be happy with that.... but ... it's one or the other. Sorry... just a messenger.

There is no reason for confusion. There is no reason for the husband to run around. End the relationship if you are unwilling or unable to communicate. Don't be a chicken and have affairs. That is an excuse. Fix it or get out.

Again... this is baffling. The multiple articles I posted, and the comments by men to those articles.... clearly and specifically articulated what it is they wanted, and what was the malfunction.

A man needs physical and relational intimacy. That's what these escorts provide. That's what the men in these articles said they wanted. That is what the comments on those articles by men, indicated. that's what surveys of these men said they would rather be getting from their wives... but their wives were not willing.

So.... they got those needs met by women for hire. And these men loved on them, like they would have their wives given the chance. So... it's not their fault. They are making their needs clearly and obviously known. Honestly they should not need to, because women throughout history, and all over the world, know this automatically. (or culturally).

The article that you posted was an interview with prostitutes. The malfunction is their inability to articulate this to their partners. If the men are unable to communicate or resolve the issue then they need to end the relationship and get out.

Yeah, and all the couples I meet that actively live this way, are very happy.

Now if a women is not.... ok, just stay single. If you think being married and meeting the needs of your marriage is a prison sentence, why get married?

Because the other option is to get married, refuse to meet your husbands need, and he'll find someone who does. Will you be happy then? Then just stay single.

You keep saying fix it or get out... I agree! You need to fix this, or get out. Because if you don't fix it, and you don't stop getting married.... he's going to find someone who meets those needs.

I'm just telling it like it is. He is going to find someone who meets those needs. You have only two options. Just two. You can choose to be the person who meets those needs..... or you can choose to not be the person who meets those needs. If you choose not to, then there are three possible outcomes. A: You don't get married. B: You get married and accept he'll love other women than you. C: You get married and are miserable that he loves other women than you.

There is a chance you'll find someone who doesn't... but that would be the exception.

The relationships that are successful have communication. Expecting women to know or to be complicit when their partner screws around them is ignorant. There is no accepting he will run around. Fix it or get out. Whether you like it or not the man is equally responsible in relationships. That responsibility at the very least lies in communicating and not having affairs.

Playing this game of economic control and sentencing someone to maintain the house, the kids, the job and the husband is insane. There are women that are out there that want to devote their lives to that and even more that will do whatever it takes not to hold a job.

I am not looking for a husband or a relationship. My kid is first and my freedom second. I have batteries and am perfectly happy traveling and taking road trips, reading, hiking, throwing dinner parties and having fun by doing whatever I want whenever I want as long as it does not impact my first priority. I can't think of any sane reason to give that up.

There is no reason for confusion. There is no reason for the husband to run around. End the relationship if you are unwilling or unable to communicate. Don't be a chicken and have affairs. That is an excuse. Fix it or get out.

Again, I would say he did that. He said "I need this from you", and his wife said no. So he did "Fix it". He found a women that supplied those needs.

And you say "end the relationship"... well .... they basically are. They are engaging in a relationship with someone else. That's whole point. You can keep saying that, and I'll keep repeating myself as long as you wish. Nothing is going to change here.....

The article that you posted was an interview with prostitutes. The malfunction is their inability to articulate this to their partners. If the men are unable to communicate or resolve the issue then they need to end the relationship and get out.

Men are begging their wives for attention ALL THE TIME. Type in 'begging wife for sex' and you'll have dozens of articles, and posts by men, talking about this. It's all over the place. Magazines write about it.

My wife is always (a) too tired, (b) not interested, (c) grumpy, or (d) wants to watch TV, do sudoku puzzles, lay in bed with the kids, etc. I swear, sex in our house is like a space shuttle launch! The windows for liftoff are extremely rare, and there is always a reason to postpone.​

A Frustrated Husband Writes: My Wife Won't Have Sex

And in the comment section of one of the links I posted, a man said the reason he found an adult escort is because he was tired and frustrated at constantly being shot down while begging for sex and intimacy.

Any claim that men do not articulate their needs to their wife, I'm sorry.... YOU.... ARE.... WRONG. Period. The evidence against that claim is almost endless.

The relationships that are successful have communication. Expecting women to know or to be complicit when their partner screws around them is ignorant. There is no accepting he will run around. Fix it or get out. Whether you like it or not the man is equally responsible in relationships. That responsibility at the very least lies in communicating and not having affairs.

Ok, I'll repeat myself again.... If wives don't want their husband to find someone else to meet these needs that he has..... then they need to accept him finding someone else who will. He is going to.... fix it... and get out. Which is exactly what the articles show. These prostitutes are openly admitting that if wives met their husbands needs, they would be out of a job.

Wives need to fix it, or get out. Exactly what you keep repeating. Because if wives don't fix it, or get out.... HE WILL. Which again is exactly what the research shows. You keep saying fix it or get out.... again that is what they are doing. You just don't like it. Well too bad! ... You can yell that at me until the end of time, as if I have anything to do with it. I"m just pointing out the facts.

You can complain about lies, and affairs, and communication until the end of time. Until women start meeting their husbands needs... this is changing. In fact it's going to get worse. Much worse. I promise you. I'd bet my whole pay check on it.

I am not looking for a husband or a relationship. My kid is first and my freedom second. I have batteries and am perfectly happy traveling and taking road trips, reading, hiking, throwing dinner parties and having fun by doing whatever I want whenever I want as long as it does not impact my first priority. I can't think of any sane reason to give that up.

Well that's very interesting. More power to you.

So the women that DO want a husband that loves and cherishes them, they need to meet their husbands needs, or they end up at an escort or prostitute... and it is their fault according to the research, and personal testimonies of people that these husbands visit, and the husbands themselves.

If you don't want a husband..... then nothing in this entire thread even relates to you. Not saying I have a problem with you commenting on it.... but I said many times if you don't want a husband, then by all means do whatever you want. (although children who grow up without fathers tend to have horrible life long problems)

 

[Andylusion]

I mean this is not the woman that a guy gets up in the morning and asks, "Honey..........Where are my socks?" This is not the woman that watches him scratch his balls or listens to him burp the Star Spangled Banner.

The more I think about it, this right here.... is exactly the problem.

You can't be a lover and a confidant to a man, because of this.

Now at the exact same time, you turn right around, and can easily do this for your children. Can't you?

Your children, burp, fart, crap their pants, smear food all over the place, pee in your face, roll around in the mud then track it through the house, get sick, have snot all over their face, scream, squeal, yell, cry.... and many more things.

And you have no problem finding time to be with them. No problem loving them. No problem dealing with their faults and failures. No problem cleaning up their clothes. No problem fixing them dinner.

By every possible measure, a man is far less of a problem... and of course he's going to work, putting in 8 to 10 hours, and bringing home a pay check that you then spend to do all those above mentioned things for your child.

But you can't be a lover to him. Can't be a confidant to him. Because he scratched his balls, and burped, and asked you where his socks are.

This is why escorts have a lucrative job. This is why men find other women to be with. This is it right here.

"And you have no problem finding time to be with them?" It isn't like you get a choice. They are children.

It sounds like you don't want a partner. You want your mother.

Clean debate zone. You are not allowed to make personal attacks.

Fix it... or get out.

I'm not making a personal attack. I'm pointing out the obvious. You indicated a competition with children.

I never made any claims on what I personally want. Nothing in this thread even relates to me personally. I happy being single. Always have been. Always will be... unless some miracle happens. I can't even fathom what would make me want a wife.

But, I recognize that most people do want a spouse, and I see that fewer and fewer seem to be able to have a happy marriage. So this thread is a discussion about why I think that it isn't working for so many people.

But me, I'm not in this game at all. Not about me or what I want. There's nothing I want. Single for life... at least thus far.

 

[Andylusion]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

When you say getting paid, I think cost of a wife is millions of dollars over a life time. $350 is nothing. A wife gets my life, my home, my entire wage, my retirement, my investments, my everything. If a wife only cost $350, there would not be a single guy on the face of the Earth.

Anyway....
First off, I'm just reading what other women have written, and commenting on it.

Second, as I said before, these women from other countries seem to be able to meet their husbands need, and do so without complaining.

Are they all superheroines? Or is it a matter of priorities and making time?

Third, again for thousands of years, women have been able to do this.

The one difference between then and now, I would argue is that women because of the feminist movement, all want their own careers and high demand, high stress jobs.

So I gasp that after you spend all day at the office and you are exhausted, then you come home and still have to do all the chores in the home, then you have nothing left for your husband... yeah I get that.

Whose fault is that?

As these ladies in the article said... many of these men are paying them, not even to have sex, but just to have someone to talk to. The biggest need a man wants from a women outside of sex, is simply to have her believe in him, and support him. When he doesn't get that from home, he goes to someone else.

Now getting that intimate need met, naturally leads to close-ness and ultimately sex. That's why most affairs are started not for sexual needs, but for intimacy reasons. It's not because his office assistant had big breasts, or walked around in lingerie at the office.

It's because when he said "I was thinking about doing (x)" she said "Oh really? Tell me about that. That sounds like a great idea".

You know, I can't help but think of my sister. She's got this. When she needs alone time with her husband, she just kicks the kids out. Literally, you all go outside and play. "I don't wanna" Too bad, out. She simply makes time. By the way, she has 6 kids.

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Obviously you are not starving him out sexually, or relationally, because you felt that you shouldn't ever have to meet his needs.

Since that doesn't describe you, then no. None of what you describe seems like your fault.

I think the primary thing that I would have done differently, had I been in your shoes.... is I would not have taken the second job.

I would have allowed the house to be foreclosed on (or sold it). I would have moved to an apartment if need be.

Now that sounds completely counter intuitive. But my experience with men that have had the absolute snot beat out of them, by a crash and the loss of a good job... is that they get into this mild but constant depression.

They get their wheels stuck in a deep rut that rolls around in a circle.

And what they really need more than anything else, is to have a crisis that forces them back into action, whether they want to or not. Most of the guys that get caught in this, the moment they get their wheels out of the rut, they take off again.

When you got the second job, in order to overt the foreclosure on the home, you inadvertently removed the best crisis motivation that would have forced him to move out of the rut. Since the crisis was no longer a concern, he just stayed in his stupor from being beat up.

My sister actually had a similar situation when she first got married. My brother in law came back from Iraq. He was not physically injured, but he watched people blown up, had to been through some dangerous situation, and he came back to the US, and just wanted to sit and watch TV.

My sister was working at the time, and basically said she was planning to quit her job, and if he didn't have an income, then they would lose their place. She would move back with mom and dad, and he would just do whatever. When he had a place for her to live, she'd come back. Guess who had a job in a week. And then once he had a job, guess who decided if he has to work, he's going to make some money, and got a better job. And now he's an EMT.

When he was faced with a crisis, he suddenly snapped out of it. And I've heard similar stories from numerous others.

So that is about the only thing I would have suggested. Have an eye-to-eye, come to Jesus meeting, and just have told him, I'm not getting another job, so you either find a way to bring in some income, or I'll move back home until you figure something out on your own. I'll come back when you have a place to live.

When you have kids, it's not easy to be cavalier about the roof over their heads. At the end of the day, your responsibility to them is greater than the depressed chunk of loved manhood on the sofa. Today, we still have our home. Still working on fixing things with the formerly depressed chunk of loved manhood , lol

I never said it would be easy. Confronting something like this isn't easy. My sister had a child at the time too... but she made a decision, that either A: he was going to man-up, or B: she was going to move back with mom and dad, and wait for man to man-up.

I'm sure she was a tad anxious about it. But her strong hand at approaching lazy-boy, resulted him turning into the best father of the house I've ever met. I look up to this guy like he's twice my height. I could not possibly have asked for a better brother-in-law.

Anyway, I am glad that things seem to be moving somewhat for you, and hope for better tomorrows going forward!

 

[Andylusion]

As to why I'm exposed to these discussion.... it's actually a rather baffling question to me. I don't know. I think to most women I am "safe". I'm not looking for any kind of relationship. So I'm not 'flirty' or whatever. Beyond that I don't know.

That you are considered 'safe' to married women says more about your male coworkers than it does the females. Do you understand the implication?

I was only half-kidding when I blamed 'Disney' - it can be a big shock to be raised a princess only to be awakened by Prince Charming's kiss...and find yourself standing in front of sink load of dirty dishes.

To keep it simple and to the topic - No, I don't believe that feminism promotes prostitution. Granted, our definitions of 'feminism' may differ - but marital infidelity is not new. Both husbands and wives have been unfaithful for millennia - the difference?...men often have to pay for extra marital comfort, women generally don't.

We simply live in an ever more transparent society...where previously private matters are aired for all to see/hear.

I feel as though your story is incomplete/one sided - have you heard the story of the blind men and the elephant?

In thinking about it, that is what my answer implies, which leads me to believe my answer is wrong. I know that I am not any better of a person than all the other guys. More importantly, all the guys at every job I've had, can't all be adulterous deviants looking to screw up marriages. So my answer can not be true.

Perhaps the reason I am "safe" to talk to is because they know I don't talk to people much. I never spread gossip or rumors, talk about what other people say. My general mode of operation, is to put on my headphones, and work quietly.

Beyond that, I have no idea. Why I end up in these conversations is beyond me. Honestly I can't count the number of times I have said to myself "How did I end up part of this discussion?". It's one of the reasons I put on my head phones and just keep to myself as much as possible.

Amen to that sister. I'm always shocked by these articles you see where they ask women to describe their ideal man, and they spend the next 30 minutes describing a women. Men smell. Men fart. Men burp. Men scratch their butt. Where is this 'prince charming' guy? I've met some really decent single guys. Guys that I wish I was like. That had skills, abilities, talent, careers, drive, and far smarter than me. They are still not 'prince charming'. They still stink when they pass gas.

We simply live in an ever more transparent society...where previously private matters are aired for all to see/hear.

So you don't think that as a whole, that the adult escort and sex trade is growing?

When I look up the sex trade in times past, I personally noticed that often it was like prostitutes on the cattle drive. But that actually fits with this thread. Men when they were at home, rarely went for a prostitute..... obviously because their wives were meeting their needs. There's a reason prostitutes were on the trails, and in the small towns out in the middle of nowhere, where the men were... away from their wives, and their needs were not being met.

The difference now is, women seem to be refusing to meet their husbands needs while at home. Thus the sex trade is growing very rapidly, as far as I can tell.

You don't think so? You think it's all the same, we only know about it more?

I feel as though your story is incomplete/one sided - have you heard the story of the blind men and the elephant?

I have no idea. I assume you are implying that I am the blind man, that doesn't see the huge obvious elephant. That is likely accurate. Unfortunately I am captain oblivious, so it's not likely I figure out what the elephant is anytime soon.

 

[Andylusion]

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Loss of a job is a life-altering event!...and can wreak havoc with a marriage.

My experience was similar to yours - but it came about when hubby retired while I continued to work. And I did blame myself in a half cynical/ironic sort of way...because I never demanded/expected/requested any thing different during our marriage. He went to work every day - worked longer and harder in a physically and mentally demanding job. I took care of everything else - listener extraordinaire, household chores, laundry, banking, childcare, meals, packed lunches, etc while working most of the time too...willingly, voluntarily took it all on.

Then the time came the children were grown, he was home every day, while I was not - no lunch packed for me, dirty dishes laying about, no housework done, no meal on the table. Several of my co-workers experienced the same thing when they had retired husbands at home - not greeted at the door with a smile, and a 'hey hon, how was your day?', or delicious aromas of dinner on the stove...more likely greeted with 'oh, your home, what's for dinner?'

I felt he should have known to do those things, to willingly pick up the slack both physically and mentally - but he had no clue - the concept was foreign to him because he'd never had to take care of those things. Before it became a serious problem - we worked it out and I'm retired now too - but still take on the greater burden of household and financial responsibilities.

Even though he eagerly retired I do think a degree of depression/lethargy set in.

A lot of guys think retiring is going to be this great experience, when in reality, retiring doesn't make men happy at all.

My parents have almost been more active in retirement than they were before, which is why they are constantly happy I think.

 

[Andylusion]

Nowadays muslims make more babies than christians and atheists. Why?

Polygamy. The rich in muslim countries just breed. Yes it has side effects. Guys really want to be rich there they do anything. Rebel. Be king. Be tyrants. But it does have it's positive.

Western civilization is filled with too many welfare parasites. If the rich have more babies, and that means with more women, and most likely outside marriage, then you can have your population problem solved.

Not if the rich are rapidly becoming a fraction of the population. I know I decided our family was big enough due to the economic uncertainty of the crash. Lots of people would like bigger families, if it was easier to survive on one salary, or if supports were better for low income workers. It's not Muslims fault that conditions are so family unfriendly here

And by the way, I served in the ME for over a decade, and only met a handful of multiple marriages. It's legal, but uncommon

I don't really understand the whole worry over money and economic uncertainty.

I suppose if you determine the life style you want to live first, and then plan your family around it... maybe.

But if you plan your family first, and fit your lifestyle to the budget.... you'll be fine.

Again, my sister like I said before, her husband started off with a really crappy job. They had six kids. I remember them rolling around in old used cars. Didn't hurt them. Their first home, was a tiny dinky little place. All their kids are doing fine, and I never met them were they seemed stressed or worried about anything.

And like I said, my sister hasn't worked a job in 15 years. They just lived a lower life style. Of course now married 15 years, with him the only one working, they now have a massive house, all new nice cars, and so on. And by the way, she had most of those kids right before and during the crash.

I don't think it's family unfriendly here. I think people simply don't want to live in a smaller house, and drive affordable cars. I think people want a life style over kids.

The problem with the 'family unfriendly' claim is most of these people live in countries that have a fraction of the social supports that we do, and they pop out twice as many children as we do.

If being family unfriendly, is why people never have kids, why are those places which are practically family hostile, popping dozens of kids? We have poor people here, that make less money for their whole family, than I do providing for just me. Yet all their kids grow up just the same. They are not 'scarred for life' or something. They turn out just fine.

The other problem is, then how do you explain Europe? In Europe they have more social supports (on average) than the US does, and yet birth rates are so low, that the population would be falling if not for immigration. Ironically the worst country for birth rates, is Germany which is the leading economy in all of Europe.

Japan has even gone so far as to give direct cash payments to have children for thousands of dollars, and yet their population is going to fall by nearly 1% this year. Which is huge.

So if the problem was the country being 'family unfriendly' then why are all these far more family friendly countries experiencing the same massive drops in birth rates? Why are countries that are more family hostile, showing large increases in birth rates?

People just want to have their career, and their toys, and their big house... rather than kids. (not talking about you specifically, but in general). It's not this big worry over how much feeding a little baby costs. They are inconvenient.

 

[Disir]

Again, I would say he did that. He said "I need this from you", and his wife said no. So he did "Fix it". He found a women that supplied those needs.

And you say "end the relationship"... well .... they basically are. They are engaging in a relationship with someone else. That's whole point. You can keep saying that, and I'll keep repeating myself as long as you wish. Nothing is going to change here.....

Except you keep missing that whole leave thingy. Like move out and get divorced. Move on. Not stay in the same household and move on emotionally.

Ok, I'll repeat myself again.... If wives don't want their husband to find someone else to meet these needs that he has..... then they need to accept him finding someone else who will. He is going to.... fix it... and get out. Which is exactly what the articles show. These prostitutes are openly admitting that if wives met their husbands needs, they would be out of a job.

Wives need to fix it, or get out. Exactly what you keep repeating. Because if wives don't fix it, or get out.... HE WILL. Which again is exactly what the research shows. You keep saying fix it or get out.... again that is what they are doing. You just don't like it. Well too bad! ... You can yell that at me until the end of time, as if I have anything to do with it. I"m just pointing out the facts.

You can complain about lies, and affairs, and communication until the end of time. Until women start meeting their husbands needs... this is changing. In fact it's going to get worse. Much worse. I promise you. I'd bet my whole pay check on it.

I'm not yelling at you and that is not getting out. I can see no reason to have an affair and still live in the same house with your spouse. It makes no sense. Unless the maid and food service is too good. That is not complaining, you just don't like it.

I agree if women are unhappy in a relationship then ending that relationship is important. I have met people that are absolutely miserable married and spending 5, 10, 20 years married to someone that you can't stand is torture.

And in the link you just provided the responses indicated a couple of different solutions. If those solutions don't work then it is way past time to evaluate why you are living in the same household. All of those solutions indicate communication is key.

It's got nothing to do with feminism. It has everything to do with why people get married to begin with and why they stay. I had a friend that lived with a woman he hated. He stayed because. He had never been in love with her. They had no children together. He simply did not want to be alone and did not want to change his circumstances. He was miserable and complained constantly but he was in control of his own destiny. It makes no sense to me.

Well that's very interesting. More power to you.

So the women that DO want a husband that loves and cherishes them, they need to meet their husbands needs, or they end up at an escort or prostitute... and it is their fault according to the research, and personal testimonies of people that these husbands visit, and the husbands themselves.

If you don't want a husband..... then nothing in this entire thread even relates to you. Not saying I have a problem with you commenting on it.... but I said many times if you don't want a husband, then by all means do whatever you want. (although children who grow up without fathers tend to have horrible life long problems)

You initiated a thread feminism promotes prostitution.... and that is pithy research.

You kept saying you, you, you.............and I thought perhaps you should know that I am not the one.
My son has a father and this is not the time or place for that discussion. The circumstances are different and I don't think you can comprehend it......no offense.

 

[SeaGal]

...I know that I am not any better of a person than all the other guys. More importantly, all the guys at every job I've had, can't all be adulterous deviants looking to screw up marriages.

Perhaps you're a better person than you think you are. Applying your logic makes it doubtful that all the women at every job you've ever had are driving their husbands to the arms, or ears, of paid lovers either.

...Why I end up in these conversations is beyond me. Honestly I can't count the number of times I have said to myself "How did I end up part of this discussion?". It's one of the reasons I put on my head phones and just keep to myself as much as possible.

You are not the first befuddled man to ask that question after being exposed to conversation with a group of women - I am a female, and I sometimes reach for the 'headphones'. Simply try not to take it to heart so.

So you don't think that as a whole, that the adult escort and sex trade is growing?

I don't know - but I'm pretty sure that if it is - there are many contributing societal factors beyond feminism and men dissatisfied with the sexual performance or non-performance of their wives. One of them is very likely the removal of some taboos - such as talking about it.

Two (at least lol) of our most revered (by many) political leaders had affairs and/or long-time mistresses. Were their wives disrespectful, unappreciative or frigid? Who knows.

... I assume you are implying that I am the blind man, that doesn't see the huge obvious elephant. That is likely accurate. Unfortunately I am captain oblivious, so it's not likely I figure out what the elephant is anytime soon.

The moral of that story is not that they couldn't see the entire elephant. It's that they made a judgment about the whole while only 'seeing' a portion. They 'saw' only what was in front of them without consideration that there may be more...without following the tail to the body, or the trunk to the head. Not meant as criticism - just a natural feature of the human condition.

I get the impression that it is the disrespect in tone and word that disturbs you the most? Unfortunately the more open the society the more ugly is exposed to the light of day - doesn't mean the ugly wasn't there all along.

In reading some of your comments to others - I agree. As money becomes easier to borrow, it becomes easier to spend, easier to instantly gratify material desires and the patience to save or delay gratification is obsolete. We lived much simpler, humbler lives than our children ever have. It's pretty much been that way with each generation...but that's a whole 'nother thread.

ps - just out of curiosity - please do not feel obliged to respond on this very public board - do you sometimes feel as though you born out of time?...in the wrong time, out of step, or on a different plane? If the answer is yes - perhaps you have a gift, just haven't figured yet how to put it to best use.

 

[Andylusion]

Again, I would say he did that. He said "I need this from you", and his wife said no. So he did "Fix it". He found a women that supplied those needs.

And you say "end the relationship"... well .... they basically are. They are engaging in a relationship with someone else. That's whole point. You can keep saying that, and I'll keep repeating myself as long as you wish. Nothing is going to change here.....

Except you keep missing that whole leave thingy. Like move out and get divorced. Move on. Not stay in the same household and move on emotionally.

Ok, I'll repeat myself again.... If wives don't want their husband to find someone else to meet these needs that he has..... then they need to accept him finding someone else who will. He is going to.... fix it... and get out. Which is exactly what the articles show. These prostitutes are openly admitting that if wives met their husbands needs, they would be out of a job.

Wives need to fix it, or get out. Exactly what you keep repeating. Because if wives don't fix it, or get out.... HE WILL. Which again is exactly what the research shows. You keep saying fix it or get out.... again that is what they are doing. You just don't like it. Well too bad! ... You can yell that at me until the end of time, as if I have anything to do with it. I"m just pointing out the facts.

You can complain about lies, and affairs, and communication until the end of time. Until women start meeting their husbands needs... this is changing. In fact it's going to get worse. Much worse. I promise you. I'd bet my whole pay check on it.

I'm not yelling at you and that is not getting out. I can see no reason to have an affair and still live in the same house with your spouse. It makes no sense. Unless the maid and food service is too good. That is not complaining, you just don't like it.

I agree if women are unhappy in a relationship then ending that relationship is important. I have met people that are absolutely miserable married and spending 5, 10, 20 years married to someone that you can't stand is torture.

And in the link you just provided the responses indicated a couple of different solutions. If those solutions don't work then it is way past time to evaluate why you are living in the same household. All of those solutions indicate communication is key.

It's got nothing to do with feminism. It has everything to do with why people get married to begin with and why they stay. I had a friend that lived with a woman he hated. He stayed because. He had never been in love with her. They had no children together. He simply did not want to be alone and did not want to change his circumstances. He was miserable and complained constantly but he was in control of his own destiny. It makes no sense to me.

Well that's very interesting. More power to you.

So the women that DO want a husband that loves and cherishes them, they need to meet their husbands needs, or they end up at an escort or prostitute... and it is their fault according to the research, and personal testimonies of people that these husbands visit, and the husbands themselves.

If you don't want a husband..... then nothing in this entire thread even relates to you. Not saying I have a problem with you commenting on it.... but I said many times if you don't want a husband, then by all means do whatever you want. (although children who grow up without fathers tend to have horrible life long problems)

You initiated a thread feminism promotes prostitution.... and that is pithy research.

You kept saying you, you, you.............and I thought perhaps you should know that I am not the one.
My son has a father and this is not the time or place for that discussion. The circumstances are different and I don't think you can comprehend it......no offense.

Ah, well. I think eventually they do move on at some point and leave. Others are likely going to stay in the relationship, because under the new conditions, it is acceptable. They keep the wife, and still get their needs met with the escort. I can imagine that some men find that arrangement acceptable, although I imagine the wife would not. But that's her fault.

This is the whole point of this thread.

If the women decides to move on, and divorce... well ok.... but guess what, the next guy is going to be the same way. He is going to want those needs met, and if she doesn't, then he'll find someone who will. And then she's right back with another guy that is visiting escorts. She ditches him, and finds another guy... and guess what!!!! He wants those needs met too! Shocking.... and if she doesn't, then he meets with escorts as well.

So the women need to decide to either just stay single like you.... or accept having a man that visits escorts to get the needs met that she refuses to meet.... or.... she could just be a wife, and meet those needs, and have a loving husband.

The bottom line is, a man has needs that need to be filled. That's the number one, primary reason any man on the face of the Earth, gets married. Generally speaking, a man will find a way to meet those needs. The only option a wife has in this situation, is to either be the women that meets those needs, or have another women meet those needs. That's it. That's her only choice as a wife. The needs are going to be met, with or without her.

I can see no reason to have an affair and still live in the same house with your spouse. It makes no sense.

I think I just gave you the reason a hundred times. Men have real physical needs. I'm not sure why that is difficult. I honestly don't think women like you, really understand how much that sex drive in a man, drives him crazy.

It's kind of like, being a heavy coffee drinker for decades, and then having a massive coffee shortage. If you can imagine what it would be like to go a full week without your morning coffee, or something similar.... it's like that for a man being starved out by his wife, only our sex drive doesn't wane with time. Eventually the caffeine withdraw will fade.

By the way, women experience the same thing, it's just a much more rare event. Some women in certain situation where they get hormonal treatment, suddenly have their sex drive turned up real high, and suddenly they are noticing every single 'hot' guy in the area, and start thinking crazy thoughts.

In fact, even wives with average drives, if the man does the same thing all these wives are doing, and starves out the wife sexually, she'll end up doing the exact same thing.

Several years ago you remember the big blow up with Ashley Madison. The hookup site for married people. At that time the BBC did a story about a hookup site in the UK, but this specific site was dedicated to married women, to finding men to meet up with.

They interviewed the lady who opened the site, and she said the whole reason she created the site, was because her husband wouldn't have sex with her. She was tired of fighting and begging for sex. So she finally found someone else who would meet that need. Now typically, it's the women who starve out the men, but in this case it was the reverse.

As far as I'm concerned the man in that instance, is 100% guilty of causing the affair. He drove her to find someone else who would meet that need. This thread is mainly at the women, but only because it's rather rare to have a guy that refuses to have sex. But the reverse does happen, and those men are 100% as guilty as any of these wives are.

Now if you want to keep sitting there saying "there's no reason for it" that's fine.... but you are wrong... and more importantly saying that, isn't going to change anything. The only way to have this problem to get better, is for them to stop giving and excuses, and start meeting the needs of their spouse, as they said they would when they said "I do".

It has everything to do with why people get married to begin with and why they stay. I had a friend that lived with a woman he hated. He stayed because. He had never been in love with her. They had no children together. He simply did not want to be alone and did not want to change his circumstances. He was miserable and complained constantly but he was in control of his own destiny. It makes no sense to me.

Well the articles I was referring to, were men who wanted to be married, did love their spouse, and wanted to have that special relationship with their wife. It's just that their wives refused.

What you are talking about is more emotional, Disney, romance novel crap. "Well I don't 'feeeeel' like I love her/him". You ever met someone that lived their lives based on how they feel? They are all train wrecks.

Well I just don't feel like studying. I just don't feel like going to work. Have a girl at work right now, that said "I don't want to do that". Didn't feel like it I guess. She's on her last chance right now. Hope she doesn't feel like getting a pay check soon.

Ugh... guys like that make me want to take up Boxing. Most people don't want to be alone, so shut up, love the girl, and make a marriage out of it, and quit your childish whining. Some people's kids.....

The circumstances are different and I don't think you can comprehend it......no offense.

Whatever.

 

[Andylusion]

...I know that I am not any better of a person than all the other guys. More importantly, all the guys at every job I've had, can't all be adulterous deviants looking to screw up marriages.

Perhaps you're a better person than you think you are. Applying your logic makes it doubtful that all the women at every job you've ever had are driving their husbands to the arms, or ears, of paid lovers either.

...Why I end up in these conversations is beyond me. Honestly I can't count the number of times I have said to myself "How did I end up part of this discussion?". It's one of the reasons I put on my head phones and just keep to myself as much as possible.

You are not the first befuddled man to ask that question after being exposed to conversation with a group of women - I am a female, and I sometimes reach for the 'headphones'. Simply try not to take it to heart so.

So you don't think that as a whole, that the adult escort and sex trade is growing?

I don't know - but I'm pretty sure that if it is - there are many contributing societal factors beyond feminism and men dissatisfied with the sexual performance or non-performance of their wives. One of them is very likely the removal of some taboos - such as talking about it.

Two (at least lol) of our most revered (by many) political leaders had affairs and/or long-time mistresses. Were their wives disrespectful, unappreciative or frigid? Who knows.

... I assume you are implying that I am the blind man, that doesn't see the huge obvious elephant. That is likely accurate. Unfortunately I am captain oblivious, so it's not likely I figure out what the elephant is anytime soon.

The moral of that story is not that they couldn't see the entire elephant. It's that they made a judgment about the whole while only 'seeing' a portion. They 'saw' only what was in front of them without consideration that there may be more...without following the tail to the body, or the trunk to the head. Not meant as criticism - just a natural feature of the human condition.

I get the impression that it is the disrespect in tone and word that disturbs you the most? Unfortunately the more open the society the more ugly is exposed to the light of day - doesn't mean the ugly wasn't there all along.

In reading some of your comments to others - I agree. As money becomes easier to borrow, it becomes easier to spend, easier to instantly gratify material desires and the patience to save or delay gratification is obsolete. We lived much simpler, humbler lives than our children ever have. It's pretty much been that way with each generation...but that's a whole 'nother thread.

ps - just out of curiosity - please do not feel obliged to respond on this very public board - do you sometimes feel as though you born out of time?...in the wrong time, out of step, or on a different plane? If the answer is yes - perhaps you have a gift, just haven't figured yet how to put it to best use.

Perhaps you're a better person than you think you are. Applying your logic makes it doubtful that all the women at every job you've ever had are driving their husbands to the arms, or ears, of paid lovers either.

Oh I don't think that at all. On the whole, I think most spouses meet each others needs. Just like most men don't visit prostitutes and escorts. But of those that do there seems to be, from a number of articles I've read, a pattern.

I would also guess that women with good marriages, don't feel the need to talk about them. Thus the ones I tend to hear about, are the bad ones. (a guess).

You are not the first befuddled man to ask that question after being exposed to conversation with a group of women - I am a female, and I sometimes reach for the 'headphones'. Simply try not to take it to heart so.

No doubt. I just can't imagine working my life away for the sake of another, who spends all day telling everyone what a worthless slob I am. I always end up thinking "glad I'm single", and put my headphones back on.

The moral of that story is not that they couldn't see the entire elephant. It's that they made a judgment about the whole while only 'seeing' a portion. They 'saw' only what was in front of them without consideration that there may be more...without following the tail to the body, or the trunk to the head. Not meant as criticism - just a natural feature of the human condition.

Oh yes. This is why, though I had considered such a possibility I never talked about it on the forum until now, only because I stumbled upon these articles which illustrated what I had been thinking.

But yes, that is always a possibility.

ps - just out of curiosity - please do not feel obliged to respond on this very public board - do you sometimes feel as though you born out of time?...in the wrong time, out of step, or on a different plane? If the answer is yes - perhaps you have a gift, just haven't figured yet how to put it to best use.

Actually no. I don't think I would fit in, in any time or place, or anything. If I have a 'gift' it isn't any gift I want, nor would I wish it on anyone else.

But I do appreciate the sentiment. Very kind of you.

 

[Disir]

Ah, well. I think eventually they do move on at some point and leave. Others are likely going to stay in the relationship, because under the new conditions, it is acceptable. They keep the wife, and still get their needs met with the escort. I can imagine that some men find that arrangement acceptable, although I imagine the wife would not. But that's her fault.

This is the whole point of this thread.

If the women decides to move on, and divorce... well ok.... but guess what, the next guy is going to be the same way. He is going to want those needs met, and if she doesn't, then he'll find someone who will. And then she's right back with another guy that is visiting escorts. She ditches him, and finds another guy... and guess what!!!! He wants those needs met too! Shocking.... and if she doesn't, then he meets with escorts as well.

So the women need to decide to either just stay single like you.... or accept having a man that visits escorts to get the needs met that she refuses to meet.... or.... she could just be a wife, and meet those needs, and have a loving husband.

The bottom line is, a man has needs that need to be filled. That's the number one, primary reason any man on the face of the Earth, gets married. Generally speaking, a man will find a way to meet those needs. The only option, a wife has in this situation, is to either be the women that meets those needs, or have another women meet those needs. That's it. That's her only choice as a wife. The needs are going to be met, with or without her.

You still have not been able to explain to me why it is the man cannot move on and divorce. The answer to that, and what you keep avoiding, is that whole live in maid/cook thing that you think men are entitled to while having sex with someone else.

I think I just gave you the reason a hundred times. Men have real physical needs. I'm not sure why that is difficult. I honestly don't think women like you, really understand how much that sex drive in a man, drives him crazy.

It's kind of like, being a heavy coffee drinker for decades, and then having a massive coffee shortage. If you can imagine what it would be like to go a full week without your morning coffee, or something similar.... it's like that for a man being starved out by his wife, only our sex drive doesn't wane with time. Eventually the caffeine withdraw will fade.

By the way, women experience the same thing, it's just a much more rare event. Some women in certain situation where they get hormonal treatment, suddenly have their sex drive turned up real high, and suddenly they are noticing every single 'hot' guy in the area, and start thinking crazy thoughts.

In fact, even wives with average drives, if the man does the same thing all these wives are doing, and starves out the wife sexually, she'll end up doing the exact same thing.

Several years ago you remember the big blow up with Ashley Madison. The hookup site for married people. At that time the BBC did a story about a hookup site in the UK, but this specific site was dedicated to married women, to finding men to meet up with.

They interviewed the lady who opened the site, and she said the whole reason she created the site, was because her husband wouldn't have sex with her. She was tired of fighting and begging for sex. So she finally found someone else who would meet that need. Now typically, it's the women who starve out the men, but in this case it was the reverse.

As far as I'm concerned the man in that instance, is 100% guilty of causing the affair. He drove her to find someone else who would meet that need. This thread is mainly at the women, but only because it's rather rare to have a guy that refuses to have sex. But the reverse does happen, and those men are 100% as guilty as any of these wives are.

Now if you want to keep sitting there saying "there's no reason for it" that's fine.... but you are wrong... and more importantly saying that, isn't going to change anything. The only way to have this problem to get better, is for them to stop giving and excuses, and start meeting the needs of their spouse, as they said they would when they said "I do".

It has everything to do with why people get married to begin with and why they stay. I had a friend that lived with a woman he hated. He stayed because. He had never been in love with her. They had no children together. He simply did not want to be alone and did not want to change his circumstances. He was miserable and complained constantly but he was in control of his own destiny. It makes no sense to me.

Well the articles I was referring to, were men who wanted to be married, did love their spouse, and wanted to have that special relationship with their wife. It's just that their wives refused.

What you are talking about is more emotional, Disney, romance novel crap. "Well I don't 'feeeeel' like I love her/him". You ever met someone that lived their lives based on how they feel? They are all train wrecks.

Well I just don't feel like studying. I just don't feel like going to work. Have a girl at work right now, that said "I don't want to do that". Didn't feel like it I guess. She's on her last chance right now. Hope she doesn't feel like getting a pay check soon.

Ugh... guys like that make me want to take up Boxing. Most people don't want to be alone, so shut up, love the girl, and make a marriage out of it, and quit your childish whining. Some people's kids.....

A new Pew Research survey finds that about half of all never-married adults (53%) say they would like to marry eventually. This share is down somewhat from 2010, when 61% of never-married adults said they would like to marry someday. Roughly one-third of today’s never-married adults (32%) say they are not sure if they would like to get married, while 13% say they do not want to marry.5
Record Share of Americans Have Never Married

Number of people never married not sure and definitely don't want to be married is rising.

By the way, women cheat almost as much as men. It is emotional.

And for women it is a biological need. Welcome to the world of oxytocin
The orgasmic history of oxytocin: Love, lust, and labor

More recently there has been attempts to tie vasopressin to women that cheat.

 

[Andylusion]

You still have not been able to explain to me why it is the man cannot move on and divorce. The answer to that, and what you keep avoiding, is that whole live in maid/cook thing that you think men are entitled to while having sex with someone else.

Because they don't want to. Again... back to the original article.... men want to be with their wives. It's only that their wives are refusing to meet this particular need.

I never said that "men are entitled to", only that this is the result of the choices being made. That whole argument of yours is completely irrelevant.

Let's both agree that men shouldn't cheat on their wives. Simple enough. Done. Argument about "whether men should, or should not" is now over. That discussion is finished. They should not.

Ok, so back to the problem. Men who don't get their needs met by their wives, find other women who will meet those needs. Moralizing doesn't change the reality we're in. What will change it, is if women start being wives, and then husbands won't be driven away.

 

[danielpalos]

Not solving for simple poverty, promotes prostitution under Any form of Capitalism.

 

[Andylusion]

A new Pew Research survey finds that about half of all never-married adults (53%) say they would like to marry eventually. This share is down somewhat from 2010, when 61% of never-married adults said they would like to marry someday. Roughly one-third of today’s never-married adults (32%) say they are not sure if they would like to get married, while 13% say they do not want to marry.5
Record Share of Americans Have Never Married

Number of people never married not sure and definitely don't want to be married is rising.

By the way, women cheat almost as much as men. It is emotional.

And for women it is a biological need. Welcome to the world of oxytocin
The orgasmic history of Oxycontin: Love, lust, and labor

More recently there has been attempts to tie vasopressin to women that cheat.

I agree with the survey, but for a different reason.

Yes, it's true the number of people who want to be married, has gone down. And to me, it's pretty obvious why. And I've actually heard a few honest men admit openly why.

What did I say before about why men get married? For sex. It may not be the only thing.... but it is by far the primary reason.

Based on that, if the man can get sex without getting married.... why would he get married?

Today in Western culture, women are really easy. I have personally had at least 3 offers, and that's without looking for them. Now if a Zero like me, can have women soliciting... that is a clear sign that standards are low.

And I've heard from men directly, why get married? I'm getting what I want from her, so why bother?

In fact, it's interesting, I have two co-workers that are getting married in the next few months. One is a girl, and she's been living with this dude for years and years. She's having panic attacks because while this is important to her, he (the guy she's marrying), couldn't care less. He's not going to pay for the wedding, not going to plan for the wedding, doesn't want to take work off for the wedding, even suggested postponing the wedding for a company trip. Completely indifferent. Doesn't matter to him at all. By the way, she, asked him, to marry her.

Now the other is a guy. He asked her to marry him. He planned it. He saved money for it. He's is actually taking a new job, that pays more, specifically for this purpose. He's eager to get married, and is looking forward to it.

She can't understand why this guy who hasn't lived with this girl for any time at all, is interested in getting married, but her guy that she has lived with for years, isn't interested at all.

To me this is obvious. Because he's not getting anything, so he's interested in getting married. Her guy is getting everything. So why bother getting married?

Women today give themselves to guys so easily and so often, that to the average American male, marriage doesn't have any meaning. After a women gives him sex, and after they give him their time, and relationship... what more can a women give him that would make him interested in getting married?

As for why women don't want to bother getting married, it's usually from the negative experience sleeping around with men who they are not married to. They bounce around from one lover to another, thinking that each one will be dedicated to them. Of course they run off with someone else, so they assume marriage is the same.

In reality, marriage is the best way to have a man be dedicated to you. Not getting married is almost a guarantee he won't be.

And I think this dynamic spills over to marriage too. I think far fewer people would ditch their spouses, if they couldn't find someone else. Why does a man ditch his wife, and divorce her? Because in today's culture he can find someone else by the end of the night.

 

[Votto]

I agree.

Feminism promotes the destruction of the two parent family and leaves women with little choice at the end of the day....

Women were better off when they had a husband that cared about them and would stay with them for life....This family unit was a good thing for women.

Prostitution is the act of having sex just to stay above water.

Which is why feminism is part of the DNC.

Destroying morals and the family is key to creating a lawless criminal society that will require government to take away more and more freedoms just to try and keep society somewhat civil, thus creating a police state.

 

[Michelle420]

I agree.

Feminism promotes the destruction of the two parent family and leaves women with little choice at the end of the day....

Women were better off when they had a husband that cared about them and would stay with them for life....This family unit was a good thing for women.

Prostitution is the act of having sex just to stay above water.

If the husband cared the relationship wouldn't fall apart. If a woman is happy in her marriage she wants to be in it.