CDZ Feminism promotes prostitution?

[Andylusion]

There is a difference between "working outside the home" and spending their life on their career. I was reading about John Adams, the second president of the united states.

His wife did work outside the home. She bought land. Conducted business. But that never prevented her from being a wife. She still met the needs of her marriage.

I think if women spend their entire lives at work, and their marriage falls apart... that's on them. They are starving out their husbands, and their husbands will find some other woman that will meet their needs.

Now if a woman wants to have that high end all consuming career... I'm not against that. If they can balance that, and keep their marriage together, great. But for most men, if their wives are always at work, that is not a win. That's a fail.

And if they simply choose career over their marriage.... ok stay single. Stay alone. Women shouldn't get married, then pour their lives into a career, and then start crying the victim card, when their husband starved out, finds a prostitute or escort that meets their needs. That's their fault. Sorry. It is.

Oh, so women can work as long as you can control the type of work they do. And the guy bears no responsibility for anything. And she can run the household and raise the kids. You are adults. Fix it or get out.

I don't think I believe that. In fact, no I flat out deny that. Everyone has the opportunity. Everyone. Every single person, at any place in this country, and most of the world, has the opportunity.

No no no. I reject that. Especially today. You can get an escort in minutes today. Literally in minutes. You can meet people on facebook, you can download an app on your phone, that you can set a time and place to meet someone, in literally 10 minutes. I could meet up with someone, and have sex or a date, in 30 minutes.

If the only reason for affairs is opportunity, then every single man and woman on the planet wouldn't be faithful to anyone ever.

Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. There is always opportunity. Being in a relationship is a choice. It's the beautiful thing about being an adult. Affairs are about opportunity. Men and women have forever been able to remain committed to their partners even when faced with opportunity the world over because they choose to.

Yeah, clearly this is an oppressive violation of human rights. Then stay single. Just stay single. If this is a big burden, why do you women get married at all? What did you think marriage was going to be like? Some Disney film?

I read a research survey where they found women who had the lowest expectations of marriage were routinely the happiest in marriage. The girls with these moronic Hollywood story book expectations, were routinely miserable in marriage.

Nobody said anything about an oppressive violation of human rights. What I said was these women are spending 1/2 hour with guy and they aren't responsible for anything or put up with anything.

Mine? How can you even attempt to make that claim?
I didn't force you to get a high stress job. I didn't force you to work.

So what you are saying is, it's the guys fault for marrying you? Here's a hint.... when he says "will you marry me" you respond "no".

Don't act like someone it's our fault that we had expectations.... when those expectations are universal. Every single man on this face of the planet, only marries for two basic reasons... sex and relational intimacy. More sex, but also having someone they can talk to and confide in.

Women throughout all the world, and all human history, have understood this.

It's not rocket science. If I'm the man, and I'm asking you to marry me.... why the heck would I do that? What possible reasons would I have to ask you to marry me? I want to have sex with you. I want to be close to you. "to have and to hold" isn't just random words they put in the vows.

But you don't want to give that, and you want to do your own thing, and then try and play off that somehow it is the man's fault? This is why prostitutes and escorts are becoming so popular. This is why people are going to other countries to find wives.

Just saying. Not trying to be insulting. Really. I promise I don't mean this to be confrontational. I'm just calling it as I see it.

Yep. It is your fault (as much as it is hers in this arena). If you cannot sit down and articulate what it is specifically that you want from your partner and you cannot manage to sit down and articulate what your major malfunction is in that relationship, then it is your fault.

There are many women that refuse to work outside the home and if you are one of those guys that needs economic control over your partner then find one of those chics and they will be more than happy to be your maid,your cook, your mother and your lover. You need to know what you want and you need to be able to verbalize those needs and wants to your partner or proposed partner.

It's kind of funny that you say women should maintain low expectations but you want your expectations recognized. Men and women get married for a variety of reasons and sometimes it has nothing to do with love.

Again, the primary article that I posed, these escorts are saying that these men would rather be with their wives. They don't WANT to be separated.... but they have a need... a need their wives are refusing to meet.

This isn't "I hate my wife and I want a divorce". That's not what any of the articles I posted was about, and these escorts are not saying their clients are indicating this.

In fact, one of the escorts said that men come to her, and talk about how they want their marriage to work. The problem is, the wive simply doesn't want to do what is required. They want the marriage, and the home, and the benefits of having a husband... but they don't want to meet his needs.

Reading through your post, it is hard to find any benefit to having a husband. In fact, there is no benefit at all. It sounds more like a prison sentence. It's all fun and games for someone outside of the relationship privy to one side of the relationship to discuss requirements for the other party.

Fix it or get out.

I'm confused why you are saying 'fix it or get out".

That's kind of been my point. Don't get married if you don't want to be a wife.

OR.... just accept that your husband is going to run around loving on women other than you.

If you are perfectly fine with your husband running off to talk with these escorts... ok. Great. I can't imagine how you'd be happy with that.... but ... it's one or the other. Sorry... just a messenger.

Yep. It is your fault (as much as it is hers in this arena). If you cannot sit down and articulate what it is specifically that you want from your partner and you cannot manage to sit down and articulate what your major malfunction is in that relationship, then it is your fault.

Again... this is baffling. The multiple articles I posted, and the comments by men to those articles.... clearly and specifically articulated what it is they wanted, and what was the malfunction.

A man needs physical and relational intimacy. That's what these escorts provide. That's what the men in these articles said they wanted. That is what the comments on those articles by men, indicated. that's what surveys of these men said they would rather be getting from their wives... but their wives were not willing.

So.... they got those needs met by women for hire. And these men loved on them, like they would have their wives given the chance. So... it's not their fault. They are making their needs clearly and obviously known. Honestly they should not need to, because women throughout history, and all over the world, know this automatically. (or culturally).

Reading through your post, it is hard to find any benefit to having a husband. In fact, there is no benefit at all. It sounds more like a prison sentence. It's all fun and games for someone outside of the relationship privy to one side of the relationship to discuss requirements for the other party.

Yeah, and all the couples I meet that actively live this way, are very happy.

Now if a women is not.... ok, just stay single. If you think being married and meeting the needs of your marriage is a prison sentence, why get married?

Because the other option is to get married, refuse to meet your husbands need, and he'll find someone who does. Will you be happy then? Then just stay single.

You keep saying fix it or get out... I agree! You need to fix this, or get out. Because if you don't fix it, and you don't stop getting married.... he's going to find someone who meets those needs.

I'm just telling it like it is. He is going to find someone who meets those needs. You have only two options. Just two. You can choose to be the person who meets those needs..... or you can choose to not be the person who meets those needs. If you choose not to, then there are three possible outcomes. A: You don't get married. B: You get married and accept he'll love other women than you. C: You get married and are miserable that he loves other women than you.

There is a chance you'll find someone who doesn't... but that would be the exception.

 

[Andylusion]

I mean this is not the woman that a guy gets up in the morning and asks, "Honey..........Where are my socks?" This is not the woman that watches him scratch his balls or listens to him burp the Star Spangled Banner.

The more I think about it, this right here.... is exactly the problem.

You can't be a lover and a confidant to a man, because of this.

Now at the exact same time, you turn right around, and can easily do this for your children. Can't you?

Your children, burp, fart, crap their pants, smear food all over the place, pee in your face, roll around in the mud then track it through the house, get sick, have snot all over their face, scream, squeal, yell, cry.... and many more things.

And you have no problem finding time to be with them. No problem loving them. No problem dealing with their faults and failures. No problem cleaning up their clothes. No problem fixing them dinner.

By every possible measure, a man is far less of a problem... and of course he's going to work, putting in 8 to 10 hours, and bringing home a pay check that you then spend to do all those above mentioned things for your child.

But you can't be a lover to him. Can't be a confidant to him. Because he scratched his balls, and burped, and asked you where his socks are.

This is why escorts have a lucrative job. This is why men find other women to be with. This is it right here.

"And you have no problem finding time to be with them?" It isn't like you get a choice. They are children.

It sounds like you don't want a partner. You want your mother.

Clean debate zone. You are not allowed to make personal attacks.

Fix it... or get out.

 

[Andylusion]

Having a wife, but not getting the sex; is like hosting a formal banquet, without the eating.
A complete, and total waste of time, effort, and money...

I rest my case women! There it is. Right there.

 

[Andylusion]

Having a wife, but not getting the sex; is like hosting a formal banquet, without the eating.
A complete, and total waste of time, effort, and money...

If all you want out of marriage is sex then why get married?

That does not follow.
It's not the only thing. Men want more out of marriage than ONLY sex. But without sex.... it's not a marriage.

My car has many features that I want in a car.... but if it doesn't get me to work and back... nothing else matters.

 

[Andylusion]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

...But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

...My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands.

This bothers you why?

Actually, I blame Disney, not feminism.

What does disturb me, and might be contributed to 'feminism' (pedagogy of the oppressed beyond Freire's theory)...when men are portrayed as buffoons in ads and entertainment. I usually defend men against such characterizations, and then one goes and proves me wrong...such as asserting that women need to do things to 'keep their husbands'.

Forty-eight years ago, I took a vow - so did he. It hasn't always been easy - sometimes I said no in the bedroom, sometimes he said no to after dinner coffee and conversation on the porch...most women probably know what I'm talking about.

For most of human history the male and female roles were clearly defined. Women needed men to survive, men needed women for the human race to survive. In many less industrialized, poorer countries that is still true.

In the US, the roles aren't so clearly defined any longer...young American husbands and fathers appear to be far more involved with household chores and child care than they were a generation ago - and young American wives and mothers appear to be far more involved in bringing home the bacon than they were a generation ago.

If a man marries a women with expectations that she will fulfill all his physical and psychological needs without his commitment to fulfill hers - then he probably should marry a woman who was culturally raised to believe that that is her duty 'keep him' in exchange for being 'kept'.

I see this particularly in some wives from SE Asia, and actually admire it because most of them are in charge, their husband just don't know it - they instinctively know the ancient wisdom of the oldest profession - fake the orgasm, make the man feel like the king of lovers, and her gives her diamonds.

As to why you are exposed to the conversation of women in the workplace - why are you?...and can you accurately make sweeping judgments about western marriages with such bits and pieces of conversation?

Commitment is difficult and we live in a throw-away society - it won't take the rest of the world long to catch up.

The only thing that really bothers me, is the women who spend all day bad mouthing some guy that is putting his blood sweat and tears, into her home. Yeah, that bothers me. Just as much it would if a man was bad mouthing his wife. Ironically... or oddly, I don't meet many guys that do this.

I do meet guys that bad mouth their girlfriends, that not men who bad mouth their wives. Why that is, I don't know.

Beyond that, it's more of an intellectual curiosity. I meet people all the time, that cry that their relational lives are all messed up. And broken families is a massive problem across the country, which leads to drug use, depression, mental problems, suicide, kids of parents like the ones described, have a higher chance of behavior problems, dropping out of high school and college, and so on.

So I think it's an important issue.

I usually defend men against such characterizations, and then one goes and proves me wrong...such as asserting that women need to do things to 'keep their husbands'.

You don't think a women should have to do anything at all, to keep her husband?

So if the husband quits working, sits at home and plays video games, and doesn't even talk to the women, nor pay for .... anything.. nor even do any help around the house while not working.... makes no attempt to even exist aside from eating and playing video games....... you would agree he shouldn't have to, to keep the women?

As to why you are exposed to the conversation of women in the workplace - why are you?...and can you accurately make sweeping judgments about western marriages with such bits and pieces of conversation?

Well obviously any first hand experience is going to be limited compared to the entire population.
That said.... I've worked for the last 25 years, with hundreds of women. More than I could possibly count.

That also doesn't include dozens I've known outside of the work place. Keep in mind, none were of any romantic nature. These are co-workers and friends at best.

As to why I'm exposed to these discussion.... it's actually a rather baffling question to me. I don't know. I think to most women I am "safe". I'm not looking for any kind of relationship. So I'm not 'flirty' or whatever. Beyond that I don't know.

But when I make these sweeping judgements... it's pretty much because my experience matches up perfectly with what these articles say.

There have been several times in the past that I have had experience, that simply do not match up with anything mentioned by others, or in surveys or in research papers. I don't post threads about those experiences, because I assume they are random events unique to me. In this case, I see these same things happening all the time. Constantly. Then I happen to stumble on this article, and it matches exactly what I've seen. Then I see that survey of men who visit these women, and it matches up exactly what I've seen.

Commitment is difficult and we live in a throw-away society - it won't take the rest of the world long to catch up.

Oh I hope not. That would be so sad. Just a few years back, I did a video slide show, for my parents 50th anniversary. It was 55 minutes of non-stop pictures of all the things they did together for a life time. I wish everyone had that. That would be so sad if that would end up being unheard of in the future. They are in their mid-70s now and still do nearly everything together. I can't imagine how sad that would be if no one ever had that kind of relationship again.

 

[Andylusion]

Yesterday was my 42 wedding anniversary.

Is that why there's blood on her teeth? Sucking you dry? (I'm kidding!)

 

[Andylusion]

Two more thoughts - one random, tongue-in-cheek with no disrespect to the long married, or those who've lost a beloved spouse...the other to the premise of this thread.

1. If hubby crosses the bar before I do - I have no intention of raising another one.

2. re: 'Feminism promotes prostitution' - prostitution predates feminism by several millennia. Men have long been willing to pay for female companionship - even with a 'dutiful' wife waiting by the hearth.

I don't think that's relevant. First, that fact that I haven't mentioned there are simply bad husbands, is simply because it goes without saying. If you want to start a thread that "hey there are unfaithful men!" I will gladly post "I agree they suck".

Everyone grasps there are bad people out there. Not mentioning this, isn't a denial of it.

Further, while Feminism as an active identifiable modern movement is relatively new... I don't think that the basic mentality we're talking about here, is new.

I don't believe for example, that never before in history have women starved out their husbands.

My point in this thread, is that it seems clear to me that some aspects of the feminist movement, support the idea that women don't need men, don't need to do anything for men, and don't have to meet any of man's needs.

Which..... if applied to women who remain single, is completely fine. But women try and apply this while being married. And again, according to women who work in the sex industry, married men come to them and wish their wives would meet these needs, but since they don't, they are paying for it.

Then these very same women that starve out their husband act all indignant when they find out he's sleeping with women that meet those needs. As if it's shocking.

 

[Andylusion]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

When you say getting paid, I think cost of a wife is millions of dollars over a life time. $350 is nothing. A wife gets my life, my home, my entire wage, my retirement, my investments, my everything. If a wife only cost $350, there would not be a single guy on the face of the Earth.

Anyway....
First off, I'm just reading what other women have written, and commenting on it.

Second, as I said before, these women from other countries seem to be able to meet their husbands need, and do so without complaining.

Are they all superheroines? Or is it a matter of priorities and making time?

Third, again for thousands of years, women have been able to do this.

The one difference between then and now, I would argue is that women because of the feminist movement, all want their own careers and high demand, high stress jobs.

So I gasp that after you spend all day at the office and you are exhausted, then you come home and still have to do all the chores in the home, then you have nothing left for your husband... yeah I get that.

Whose fault is that?

As these ladies in the article said... many of these men are paying them, not even to have sex, but just to have someone to talk to. The biggest need a man wants from a women outside of sex, is simply to have her believe in him, and support him. When he doesn't get that from home, he goes to someone else.

Now getting that intimate need met, naturally leads to close-ness and ultimately sex. That's why most affairs are started not for sexual needs, but for intimacy reasons. It's not because his office assistant had big breasts, or walked around in lingerie at the office.

It's because when he said "I was thinking about doing (x)" she said "Oh really? Tell me about that. That sounds like a great idea".

You know, I can't help but think of my sister. She's got this. When she needs alone time with her husband, she just kicks the kids out. Literally, you all go outside and play. "I don't wanna" Too bad, out. She simply makes time. By the way, she has 6 kids.

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Obviously you are not starving him out sexually, or relationally, because you felt that you shouldn't ever have to meet his needs.

Since that doesn't describe you, then no. None of what you describe seems like your fault.

I think the primary thing that I would have done differently, had I been in your shoes.... is I would not have taken the second job.

I would have allowed the house to be foreclosed on (or sold it). I would have moved to an apartment if need be.

Now that sounds completely counter intuitive. But my experience with men that have had the absolute snot beat out of them, by a crash and the loss of a good job... is that they get into this mild but constant depression.

They get their wheels stuck in a deep rut that rolls around in a circle.

And what they really need more than anything else, is to have a crisis that forces them back into action, whether they want to or not. Most of the guys that get caught in this, the moment they get their wheels out of the rut, they take off again.

When you got the second job, in order to overt the foreclosure on the home, you inadvertently removed the best crisis motivation that would have forced him to move out of the rut. Since the crisis was no longer a concern, he just stayed in his stupor from being beat up.

My sister actually had a similar situation when she first got married. My brother in law came back from Iraq. He was not physically injured, but he watched people blown up, had to been through some dangerous situation, and he came back to the US, and just wanted to sit and watch TV.

My sister was working at the time, and basically said she was planning to quit her job, and if he didn't have an income, then they would lose their place. She would move back with mom and dad, and he would just do whatever. When he had a place for her to live, she'd come back. Guess who had a job in a week. And then once he had a job, guess who decided if he has to work, he's going to make some money, and got a better job. And now he's an EMT.

When he was faced with a crisis, he suddenly snapped out of it. And I've heard similar stories from numerous others.

So that is about the only thing I would have suggested. Have an eye-to-eye, come to Jesus meeting, and just have told him, I'm not getting another job, so you either find a way to bring in some income, or I'll move back home until you figure something out on your own. I'll come back when you have a place to live.

 

[idb]

Having a wife, but not getting the sex; is like hosting a formal banquet, without the eating.
A complete, and total waste of time, effort, and money...

If all you want out of marriage is sex then why get married?

That does not follow.
It's not the only thing. Men want more out of marriage than ONLY sex. But without sex.... it's not a marriage.

My car has many features that I want in a car.... but if it doesn't get me to work and back... nothing else matters.

Getting you to work and back isn't a feature...it's the primary purpose.
A feature is an MP3 player or heated seats.

 

[Disir]

I'm confused why you are saying 'fix it or get out".

That's kind of been my point. Don't get married if you don't want to be a wife.

OR.... just accept that your husband is going to run around loving on women other than you.

If you are perfectly fine with your husband running off to talk with these escorts... ok. Great. I can't imagine how you'd be happy with that.... but ... it's one or the other. Sorry... just a messenger.

There is no reason for confusion. There is no reason for the husband to run around. End the relationship if you are unwilling or unable to communicate. Don't be a chicken and have affairs. That is an excuse. Fix it or get out.

Again... this is baffling. The multiple articles I posted, and the comments by men to those articles.... clearly and specifically articulated what it is they wanted, and what was the malfunction.

A man needs physical and relational intimacy. That's what these escorts provide. That's what the men in these articles said they wanted. That is what the comments on those articles by men, indicated. that's what surveys of these men said they would rather be getting from their wives... but their wives were not willing.

So.... they got those needs met by women for hire. And these men loved on them, like they would have their wives given the chance. So... it's not their fault. They are making their needs clearly and obviously known. Honestly they should not need to, because women throughout history, and all over the world, know this automatically. (or culturally).

The article that you posted was an interview with prostitutes. The malfunction is their inability to articulate this to their partners. If the men are unable to communicate or resolve the issue then they need to end the relationship and get out.

Yeah, and all the couples I meet that actively live this way, are very happy.

Now if a women is not.... ok, just stay single. If you think being married and meeting the needs of your marriage is a prison sentence, why get married?

Because the other option is to get married, refuse to meet your husbands need, and he'll find someone who does. Will you be happy then? Then just stay single.

You keep saying fix it or get out... I agree! You need to fix this, or get out. Because if you don't fix it, and you don't stop getting married.... he's going to find someone who meets those needs.

I'm just telling it like it is. He is going to find someone who meets those needs. You have only two options. Just two. You can choose to be the person who meets those needs..... or you can choose to not be the person who meets those needs. If you choose not to, then there are three possible outcomes. A: You don't get married. B: You get married and accept he'll love other women than you. C: You get married and are miserable that he loves other women than you.

There is a chance you'll find someone who doesn't... but that would be the exception.

The relationships that are successful have communication. Expecting women to know or to be complicit when their partner screws around them is ignorant. There is no accepting he will run around. Fix it or get out. Whether you like it or not the man is equally responsible in relationships. That responsibility at the very least lies in communicating and not having affairs.

Playing this game of economic control and sentencing someone to maintain the house, the kids, the job and the husband is insane. There are women that are out there that want to devote their lives to that and even more that will do whatever it takes not to hold a job.

I am not looking for a husband or a relationship. My kid is first and my freedom second. I have batteries and am perfectly happy traveling and taking road trips, reading, hiking, throwing dinner parties and having fun by doing whatever I want whenever I want as long as it does not impact my first priority. I can't think of any sane reason to give that up.

 

[Disir]

I mean this is not the woman that a guy gets up in the morning and asks, "Honey..........Where are my socks?" This is not the woman that watches him scratch his balls or listens to him burp the Star Spangled Banner.

The more I think about it, this right here.... is exactly the problem.

You can't be a lover and a confidant to a man, because of this.

Now at the exact same time, you turn right around, and can easily do this for your children. Can't you?

Your children, burp, fart, crap their pants, smear food all over the place, pee in your face, roll around in the mud then track it through the house, get sick, have snot all over their face, scream, squeal, yell, cry.... and many more things.

And you have no problem finding time to be with them. No problem loving them. No problem dealing with their faults and failures. No problem cleaning up their clothes. No problem fixing them dinner.

By every possible measure, a man is far less of a problem... and of course he's going to work, putting in 8 to 10 hours, and bringing home a pay check that you then spend to do all those above mentioned things for your child.

But you can't be a lover to him. Can't be a confidant to him. Because he scratched his balls, and burped, and asked you where his socks are.

This is why escorts have a lucrative job. This is why men find other women to be with. This is it right here.

"And you have no problem finding time to be with them?" It isn't like you get a choice. They are children.

It sounds like you don't want a partner. You want your mother.

Clean debate zone. You are not allowed to make personal attacks.

Fix it... or get out.

I'm not making a personal attack. I'm pointing out the obvious. You indicated a competition with children.

 

[kellyd]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

When you say getting paid, I think cost of a wife is millions of dollars over a life time. $350 is nothing. A wife gets my life, my home, my entire wage, my retirement, my investments, my everything. If a wife only cost $350, there would not be a single guy on the face of the Earth.

Anyway....
First off, I'm just reading what other women have written, and commenting on it.

Second, as I said before, these women from other countries seem to be able to meet their husbands need, and do so without complaining.

Are they all superheroines? Or is it a matter of priorities and making time?

Third, again for thousands of years, women have been able to do this.

The one difference between then and now, I would argue is that women because of the feminist movement, all want their own careers and high demand, high stress jobs.

So I gasp that after you spend all day at the office and you are exhausted, then you come home and still have to do all the chores in the home, then you have nothing left for your husband... yeah I get that.

Whose fault is that?

As these ladies in the article said... many of these men are paying them, not even to have sex, but just to have someone to talk to. The biggest need a man wants from a women outside of sex, is simply to have her believe in him, and support him. When he doesn't get that from home, he goes to someone else.

Now getting that intimate need met, naturally leads to close-ness and ultimately sex. That's why most affairs are started not for sexual needs, but for intimacy reasons. It's not because his office assistant had big breasts, or walked around in lingerie at the office.

It's because when he said "I was thinking about doing (x)" she said "Oh really? Tell me about that. That sounds like a great idea".

You know, I can't help but think of my sister. She's got this. When she needs alone time with her husband, she just kicks the kids out. Literally, you all go outside and play. "I don't wanna" Too bad, out. She simply makes time. By the way, she has 6 kids.

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Obviously you are not starving him out sexually, or relationally, because you felt that you shouldn't ever have to meet his needs.

Since that doesn't describe you, then no. None of what you describe seems like your fault.

I think the primary thing that I would have done differently, had I been in your shoes.... is I would not have taken the second job.

I would have allowed the house to be foreclosed on (or sold it). I would have moved to an apartment if need be.

Now that sounds completely counter intuitive. But my experience with men that have had the absolute snot beat out of them, by a crash and the loss of a good job... is that they get into this mild but constant depression.

They get their wheels stuck in a deep rut that rolls around in a circle.

And what they really need more than anything else, is to have a crisis that forces them back into action, whether they want to or not. Most of the guys that get caught in this, the moment they get their wheels out of the rut, they take off again.

When you got the second job, in order to overt the foreclosure on the home, you inadvertently removed the best crisis motivation that would have forced him to move out of the rut. Since the crisis was no longer a concern, he just stayed in his stupor from being beat up.

My sister actually had a similar situation when she first got married. My brother in law came back from Iraq. He was not physically injured, but he watched people blown up, had to been through some dangerous situation, and he came back to the US, and just wanted to sit and watch TV.

My sister was working at the time, and basically said she was planning to quit her job, and if he didn't have an income, then they would lose their place. She would move back with mom and dad, and he would just do whatever. When he had a place for her to live, she'd come back. Guess who had a job in a week. And then once he had a job, guess who decided if he has to work, he's going to make some money, and got a better job. And now he's an EMT.

When he was faced with a crisis, he suddenly snapped out of it. And I've heard similar stories from numerous others.

So that is about the only thing I would have suggested. Have an eye-to-eye, come to Jesus meeting, and just have told him, I'm not getting another job, so you either find a way to bring in some income, or I'll move back home until you figure something out on your own. I'll come back when you have a place to live.

When you have kids, it's not easy to be cavalier about the roof over their heads. At the end of the day, your responsibility to them is greater than the depressed chunk of loved manhood on the sofa. Today, we still have our home. Still working on fixing things with the formerly depressed chunk of loved manhood , lol

 

[SeaGal]

As to why I'm exposed to these discussion.... it's actually a rather baffling question to me. I don't know. I think to most women I am "safe". I'm not looking for any kind of relationship. So I'm not 'flirty' or whatever. Beyond that I don't know.

That you are considered 'safe' to married women says more about your male coworkers than it does the females. Do you understand the implication?

I was only half-kidding when I blamed 'Disney' - it can be a big shock to be raised a princess only to be awakened by Prince Charming's kiss...and find yourself standing in front of sink load of dirty dishes.

To keep it simple and to the topic - No, I don't believe that feminism promotes prostitution. Granted, our definitions of 'feminism' may differ - but marital infidelity is not new. Both husbands and wives have been unfaithful for millennia - the difference?...men often have to pay for extra marital comfort, women generally don't.

We simply live in an ever more transparent society...where previously private matters are aired for all to see/hear.

I feel as though your story is incomplete/one sided - have you heard the story of the blind men and the elephant?

 

[grbb]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

When you say getting paid, I think cost of a wife is millions of dollars over a life time. $350 is nothing. A wife gets my life, my home, my entire wage, my retirement, my investments, my everything. If a wife only cost $350, there would not be a single guy on the face of the Earth.

Anyway....
First off, I'm just reading what other women have written, and commenting on it.

Second, as I said before, these women from other countries seem to be able to meet their husbands need, and do so without complaining.

Are they all superheroines? Or is it a matter of priorities and making time?

Third, again for thousands of years, women have been able to do this.

The one difference between then and now, I would argue is that women because of the feminist movement, all want their own careers and high demand, high stress jobs.

So I gasp that after you spend all day at the office and you are exhausted, then you come home and still have to do all the chores in the home, then you have nothing left for your husband... yeah I get that.

Whose fault is that?

As these ladies in the article said... many of these men are paying them, not even to have sex, but just to have someone to talk to. The biggest need a man wants from a women outside of sex, is simply to have her believe in him, and support him. When he doesn't get that from home, he goes to someone else.

Now getting that intimate need met, naturally leads to close-ness and ultimately sex. That's why most affairs are started not for sexual needs, but for intimacy reasons. It's not because his office assistant had big breasts, or walked around in lingerie at the office.

It's because when he said "I was thinking about doing (x)" she said "Oh really? Tell me about that. That sounds like a great idea".

You know, I can't help but think of my sister. She's got this. When she needs alone time with her husband, she just kicks the kids out. Literally, you all go outside and play. "I don't wanna" Too bad, out. She simply makes time. By the way, she has 6 kids.

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

It's your fault. Why get married? Why not pick sugar daddies?

Lol, I thought we were having a proper discussion. I certainly wouldn't marry someone like you. I have no need of sugar daddies, but a marriage should be a partnership, not servitude. If you want a servant, go get a mail order bride, one who will be subservient. And here I thought you Americans believed in equality, lol!

Then it is YOUR choice. You have chosen a husband. A useless being. You chose to enter a relationship heavily INFESTED with others' interests and opinion. Now you're in deep shit.

I were once married. My wife think I should be religious. I told her no. I ended up spending so much money on lawyer because she has this stupid religious idea that people should get married before fuck. She thinks she can win because she believes that some invisible man in the sky, called God, will protect her marriage.

In Indonesia you can always get a divorce. However, the other can make it tough. And lawyers can take advantage of it. That is all there is in marriage. More money for lawyers when your spouse believe nonsense and want to force you to give fuck.

Outside marriage? Simple. Just give her some money agreed in advance, move on. She got more. I got more. And I would never have to listen to any religious nonsense again for the whole of my life.

Expensive divorce. Only benefits lawyers. But the again, isn't that the WHOLE purpose of marriage? Making lawyers and government officials rich.

I hate hate hate marriage and religions. Never I will consider any of those. If I walk on streets and I saw a church or a mosque or a wedding ceremony I would cross to the other side out of disgust. But then again, only free market is good. Anything heavily regulated by government must be shitty. I thought I may be wrong. Well, never again I doubt that.

Many things that Andy said about various legal consequences of being in partnership outside marriage is valid. However, there are easier ways to solve that outside marriage. Marriage will make your legal problems more complicated, not less.

 

[grbb]

Having a wife, but not getting the sex; is like hosting a formal banquet, without the eating.
A complete, and total waste of time, effort, and money...

If all you want out of marriage is sex then why get married?

That does not follow.
It's not the only thing. Men want more out of marriage than ONLY sex. But without sex.... it's not a marriage.

My car has many features that I want in a car.... but if it doesn't get me to work and back... nothing else matters.

Marriage is a form of prostitution.

Men get sex. Women get money.

Yes men wants more than sex. Men also wants biological children for example. I still don't understand where involving government on this is useful in anyway.

The market take care of all our need. Why do we need government to regulate or some priests to "bless" our relationship? What are those for?

 

[SeaGal]

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Loss of a job is a life-altering event!...and can wreak havoc with a marriage.

My experience was similar to yours - but it came about when hubby retired while I continued to work. And I did blame myself in a half cynical/ironic sort of way...because I never demanded/expected/requested any thing different during our marriage. He went to work every day - worked longer and harder in a physically and mentally demanding job. I took care of everything else - listener extraordinaire, household chores, laundry, banking, childcare, meals, packed lunches, etc while working most of the time too...willingly, voluntarily took it all on.

Then the time came the children were grown, he was home every day, while I was not - no lunch packed for me, dirty dishes laying about, no housework done, no meal on the table. Several of my co-workers experienced the same thing when they had retired husbands at home - not greeted at the door with a smile, and a 'hey hon, how was your day?', or delicious aromas of dinner on the stove...more likely greeted with 'oh, your home, what's for dinner?'

I felt he should have known to do those things, to willingly pick up the slack both physically and mentally - but he had no clue - the concept was foreign to him because he'd never had to take care of those things. Before it became a serious problem - we worked it out and I'm retired now too - but still take on the greater burden of household and financial responsibilities.

Even though he eagerly retired I do think a degree of depression/lethargy set in.

 

[kellyd]

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Loss of a job is a life-altering event!...and can wreak havoc with a marriage.

My experience was similar to yours - but it came about when hubby retired while I continued to work. And I did blame myself in a half cynical/ironic sort of way...because I never demanded/expected/requested any thing different during our marriage. He went to work every day - worked longer and harder in a physically and mentally demanding job. I took care of everything else - listener extraordinaire, household chores, laundry, banking, childcare, meals, packed lunches, etc while working most of the time too...willingly, voluntarily took it all on.

Then the time came the children were grown, he was home every day, while I was not - no lunch packed for me, dirty dishes laying about, no housework done, no meal on the table. Several of my co-workers experienced the same thing when they had retired husbands at home - not greeted at the door with a smile, and a 'hey hon, how was your day?', or delicious aromas of dinner on the stove...more likely greeted with 'oh, your home, what's for dinner?'

I felt he should have known to do those things, to willingly pick up the slack both physically and mentally - but he had no clue - the concept was foreign to him because he'd never had to take care of those things. Before it became a serious problem - we worked it out and I'm retired now too - but still take on the greater burden of household and financial responsibilities.

Even though he eagerly retired I do think a degree of depression/lethargy set in.

Sounds very familiar, except we were at the younger end of the spectrum, with young kids in the house. It was scary, seriously scary. Glad you guys are fine, too. Like me, you pulled the slack. If I had left it to him, we would have gone under, that's for sure

 

[SeaGal]

Sounds very familiar, except we were at the younger end of the spectrum, with young kids in the house. It was scary, seriously scary. Glad you guys are fine, too. Like me, you pulled the slack. If I had left it to him, we would have gone under, that's for sure

I can only imagined how difficult and scary it would have been with young children, and an unexpected, drastic reduction in income.

I admire your perseverance and commitment in keeping your family together.

 

[danielpalos]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

When you say getting paid, I think cost of a wife is millions of dollars over a life time. $350 is nothing. A wife gets my life, my home, my entire wage, my retirement, my investments, my everything. If a wife only cost $350, there would not be a single guy on the face of the Earth.

Anyway....
First off, I'm just reading what other women have written, and commenting on it.

Second, as I said before, these women from other countries seem to be able to meet their husbands need, and do so without complaining.

Are they all superheroines? Or is it a matter of priorities and making time?

Third, again for thousands of years, women have been able to do this.

The one difference between then and now, I would argue is that women because of the feminist movement, all want their own careers and high demand, high stress jobs.

So I gasp that after you spend all day at the office and you are exhausted, then you come home and still have to do all the chores in the home, then you have nothing left for your husband... yeah I get that.

Whose fault is that?

As these ladies in the article said... many of these men are paying them, not even to have sex, but just to have someone to talk to. The biggest need a man wants from a women outside of sex, is simply to have her believe in him, and support him. When he doesn't get that from home, he goes to someone else.

Now getting that intimate need met, naturally leads to close-ness and ultimately sex. That's why most affairs are started not for sexual needs, but for intimacy reasons. It's not because his office assistant had big breasts, or walked around in lingerie at the office.

It's because when he said "I was thinking about doing (x)" she said "Oh really? Tell me about that. That sounds like a great idea".

You know, I can't help but think of my sister. She's got this. When she needs alone time with her husband, she just kicks the kids out. Literally, you all go outside and play. "I don't wanna" Too bad, out. She simply makes time. By the way, she has 6 kids.

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Here is where, poly forms of andry may have been beneficial. In some cultures, women get the second son along with the eldest son as husbands; due to the more severe conditions.

Women may have some claim, especially if the right insists we can lower taxes for the rich, increase military spending, and continue providing a capital gains preference for capitalists of wealth, while not creating Jobs Booms for, "single Husbands".

 

[kellyd]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

When you say getting paid, I think cost of a wife is millions of dollars over a life time. $350 is nothing. A wife gets my life, my home, my entire wage, my retirement, my investments, my everything. If a wife only cost $350, there would not be a single guy on the face of the Earth.

Anyway....
First off, I'm just reading what other women have written, and commenting on it.

Second, as I said before, these women from other countries seem to be able to meet their husbands need, and do so without complaining.

Are they all superheroines? Or is it a matter of priorities and making time?

Third, again for thousands of years, women have been able to do this.

The one difference between then and now, I would argue is that women because of the feminist movement, all want their own careers and high demand, high stress jobs.

So I gasp that after you spend all day at the office and you are exhausted, then you come home and still have to do all the chores in the home, then you have nothing left for your husband... yeah I get that.

Whose fault is that?

As these ladies in the article said... many of these men are paying them, not even to have sex, but just to have someone to talk to. The biggest need a man wants from a women outside of sex, is simply to have her believe in him, and support him. When he doesn't get that from home, he goes to someone else.

Now getting that intimate need met, naturally leads to close-ness and ultimately sex. That's why most affairs are started not for sexual needs, but for intimacy reasons. It's not because his office assistant had big breasts, or walked around in lingerie at the office.

It's because when he said "I was thinking about doing (x)" she said "Oh really? Tell me about that. That sounds like a great idea".

You know, I can't help but think of my sister. She's got this. When she needs alone time with her husband, she just kicks the kids out. Literally, you all go outside and play. "I don't wanna" Too bad, out. She simply makes time. By the way, she has 6 kids.

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Here is where, poly forms of andry may have been beneficial. In some cultures, women get the second son along with the eldest son as husbands; due to the more severe conditions.

Women may have some claim, especially if the right insists we can lower taxes for the rich, increase military spending, and continue providing a capital gains preference for capitalists of wealth, while not creating Jobs Booms for, "single Husbands".

No thanks, one is plenty for me to tackle, lol