Female genital mutiliation

[Coyote]

I am fine with female genital mutilation.

I believe the reason why FGM is so hotly debated and circumcision is not, is due to the stigmatizing nature of the the name, "Female genital mutilation."

And yes, we have all heard the stories of barbaric FGM practices, but the same stories were no doubt once told about circumcision, or in other words, "Male genital mutilation." (MGM for short)

Actually, unlike circumcision done in infants, fgm does have long term health issues caused by the mutilations.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I am fine with female genital mutilation.

I believe the reason why FGM is so hotly debated and circumcision is not, is due to the stigmatizing nature of the the name, "Female genital mutilation."

And yes, we have all heard the stories of barbaric FGM practices, but the same stories were no doubt once told about circumcision, or in other words, "Male genital mutilation." (MGM for short)

"I am fine with female genital mutilation."

Are you anti-women? You must be if you're fine with female genital mutilation.

FGM is one of the most heinous crimes, on par with something like paeodophilia, it's that wicked and vile. Any nation that allows this practice, or even condones it, should be made an International Pariah and have sanctions imposed on it.

"I believe the reason why FGM is so hotly debated and circumcision is not, is due to the stigmatizing nature of the the name, "Female genital mutilation."

There is no comparison at all between FGM and male circumcision, with the former everything is removed, with the latter the foreskin is removed, to have a comparison between the two would mean that not only the foreskin is removed but pretty much the entire penis is removed.

"And yes, we have all heard the stories of barbaric FGM practices, but the same stories were no doubt once told about circumcision, or in other words, "Male genital mutilation." (MGM for short)"

Male circumcision isn't male genital mutilation and also it's performed for a variety of reasons, including in teenage boys and adult males if the foreskin becomes too tight.

With FGM, the mutilation is they remove ALL of the female lower body part and then leave a tiny hole through which to urinate. Then when they get to about the age of 11 years-old and are sold into marriage by their family for a dowry to some old paedophile in a village 50 miles away from the nearest hospital and they're having a baby, many of them die from haemorrhage because they can't get them proper medical assistance in time.

So there's actually NO similarity at ALL between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision.

 

[ogibillm]

It's a horrible practice, and it's practiced by Christians too:

Religious views on female genital mutilation - Wikipedia

There are currently campaigns against it in certain parts of Africa.

From your link...

The Christian Bible (New Testament) does not mention female circumcision (i.e. removal of clitoral hood ) or female genital mutilation (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation).[88][89]

Christian authorities unanimously agree that FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation) has no foundation in the religious texts of Christianity.[90]

Some Christian women, in Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria and Tanzania, undergo a procedure of genital cutting; they wrongly believe it to be a religious requirement.[90]

In Africa, missionaries have tried to discourage FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation). However, in some instances, in order to retain converts from other religions, they have either ignored or condoned the continuation of these practices. When in the 1930s European Christians tried to make opposition to FGM a condition of church membership and a test of loyalty, they provoked a far-reaching campaign in colonial Kenya. Mary Nyangweso, a Kenyan researcher who studies "the interplay of religion, culture, and gender",[91] states, "Christianity, it is important to stress, does not advocate the total eradication of the Nandi female initiation rite. Rather it advocates the need to eradicate the practice of female circumcision that involves clitoridectomy and excision because it is physically unhealthy and does not conform to Christian teaching. The initiation rite can continue to be practised and the actual circumcision can be replaced by some other symbolic acts not harmful to women's bodies. This can be derived from the culture itself or Scripture that now forms part of the Nandi way of life."[92]

Christians do not believe in or practice FGM.

yes, they do.

it isn't a religious practice

 

[Kat]

It's a horrible practice, and it's practiced by Christians too:

Religious views on female genital mutilation - Wikipedia

There are currently campaigns against it in certain parts of Africa.

From your link...

The Christian Bible (New Testament) does not mention female circumcision (i.e. removal of clitoral hood ) or female genital mutilation (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation).[88][89]

Christian authorities unanimously agree that FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation) has no foundation in the religious texts of Christianity.[90]

Some Christian women, in Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria and Tanzania, undergo a procedure of genital cutting; they wrongly believe it to be a religious requirement.[90]

In Africa, missionaries have tried to discourage FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation). However, in some instances, in order to retain converts from other religions, they have either ignored or condoned the continuation of these practices. When in the 1930s European Christians tried to make opposition to FGM a condition of church membership and a test of loyalty, they provoked a far-reaching campaign in colonial Kenya. Mary Nyangweso, a Kenyan researcher who studies "the interplay of religion, culture, and gender",[91] states, "Christianity, it is important to stress, does not advocate the total eradication of the Nandi female initiation rite. Rather it advocates the need to eradicate the practice of female circumcision that involves clitoridectomy and excision because it is physically unhealthy and does not conform to Christian teaching. The initiation rite can continue to be practised and the actual circumcision can be replaced by some other symbolic acts not harmful to women's bodies. This can be derived from the culture itself or Scripture that now forms part of the Nandi way of life."[92]

Christians do not believe in or practice FGM.

yes, they do.

it isn't a religious practice

LOL Christianity is religion.
Sorry, no they do not.

 

[ogibillm]

It's a horrible practice, and it's practiced by Christians too:

Religious views on female genital mutilation - Wikipedia

There are currently campaigns against it in certain parts of Africa.

From your link...

The Christian Bible (New Testament) does not mention female circumcision (i.e. removal of clitoral hood ) or female genital mutilation (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation).[88][89]

Christian authorities unanimously agree that FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation) has no foundation in the religious texts of Christianity.[90]

Some Christian women, in Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria and Tanzania, undergo a procedure of genital cutting; they wrongly believe it to be a religious requirement.[90]

In Africa, missionaries have tried to discourage FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation). However, in some instances, in order to retain converts from other religions, they have either ignored or condoned the continuation of these practices. When in the 1930s European Christians tried to make opposition to FGM a condition of church membership and a test of loyalty, they provoked a far-reaching campaign in colonial Kenya. Mary Nyangweso, a Kenyan researcher who studies "the interplay of religion, culture, and gender",[91] states, "Christianity, it is important to stress, does not advocate the total eradication of the Nandi female initiation rite. Rather it advocates the need to eradicate the practice of female circumcision that involves clitoridectomy and excision because it is physically unhealthy and does not conform to Christian teaching. The initiation rite can continue to be practised and the actual circumcision can be replaced by some other symbolic acts not harmful to women's bodies. This can be derived from the culture itself or Scripture that now forms part of the Nandi way of life."[92]

Christians do not believe in or practice FGM.

yes, they do.

it isn't a religious practice

LOL Christianity is religion.
Sorry, no they do not.

except yes, there absolutely are christians that practice the custom.

fgm is not limited by faith since.it is not a religious practice

 

[Onyx]

Are you anti-women? You must be if you're fine with female genital mutilation.

It depends.

Is giving women the choice to alter their own bodies anti-women?

Male circumcision isn't male genital mutilation and also it's performed for a variety of reasons, including in teenage boys and adult males if the foreskin becomes too tight.

Likewise, women can cut their clitoris (technically defined as FGM) to temper sex addictions.

 

[Onyx]

Actually, unlike circumcision done in infants, fgm does have long term health issues caused by the mutilations.

Same with male genital mutilation.

Skin is designed to regulate heat and defend against infection, which is why it is on the dick in the first place.

 

[Onyx]

I believe the picture most people have in their heads, is of some isolated African village where women are pressured into it, and the "operation" is performed barbarically by some old witch doctor.

They are doing this relatively safely in western hospitals nowadays. You should be crusading to decrease the health risks of the procedure, instead of opposing the practice itself.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Are you anti-women? You must be if you're fine with female genital mutilation.

It depends.

Is giving women the choice to alter their own bodies anti-women?

Male circumcision isn't male genital mutilation and also it's performed for a variety of reasons, including in teenage boys and adult males if the foreskin becomes too tight.

Likewise, women can cut their clitoris (technically defined as FGM) to temper sex addictions.

"Is giving women the choice to alter their own bodies anti-women?"

"Likewise, women can cut their clitoris (technically defined as FGM) to temper sex addictions."

You have very bizarre thoughts about things to do with sex and body parts.

People who self-mutilate have mental health issues.

 

[Onyx]

You have very bizarre thoughts about things to do with sex and body parts.

I don't know, I'll just take that as a compliment I guess.

People who self-mutilate have mental health issues.

Or they have practical reasons, as I have pointed out.

Again, the stigma of the practice is due to its association with the word "mutilation," and some of the barbaric ways it is carried out in some of the places where it goes on.

Answer my question though. Is it anti-women to allow women the liberty to alter their own bodies?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I believe the picture most people have in their heads, is of some isolated African village where women are pressured into it, and the "operation" is performed barbarically by some old witch doctor.

They are doing this relatively safely in western hospitals nowadays. You should be crusading to decrease the health risks of the procedure, instead of opposing the practice itself.

"They are doing this relatively safely in western hospitals nowadays."

Throughout the ENTIRE Western world, Female Genital Mutilation is illegal and is punishable by arrest and trial.

You don't have a clue what you are babbling about.

 

[Coyote]

Actually, unlike circumcision done in infants, fgm does have long term health issues caused by the mutilations.

Same with male genital mutilation.

Skin is designed to regulate heat and defend against infection, which is why it is on the dick in the first place.

What specific health issues are common with circumcision? I have to say...all the men I've known have been circumsized and none have had any health issues.

There is a vast difference between doing it to an infant and doing it to an adolescent woman.

 

[Coyote]

I believe the picture most people have in their heads, is of some isolated African village where women are pressured into it, and the "operation" is performed barbarically by some old witch doctor.

They are doing this relatively safely in western hospitals nowadays. You should be crusading to decrease the health risks of the procedure, instead of opposing the practice itself.

WHY should it be done?

 

[Onyx]

Throughout the ENTIRE Western world, Female Genital Mutilation is illegal and is punishable by arrest and trial.

No, that is actually not true. Could you back that up for the over 50-60 westernized nations in the world?

You don't have a clue what you are babbling about.

We'll see.

 

[Coyote]

It's a horrible practice, and it's practiced by Christians too:

Religious views on female genital mutilation - Wikipedia

There are currently campaigns against it in certain parts of Africa.

From your link...

The Christian Bible (New Testament) does not mention female circumcision (i.e. removal of clitoral hood ) or female genital mutilation (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation).[88][89]

Christian authorities unanimously agree that FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation) has no foundation in the religious texts of Christianity.[90]

Some Christian women, in Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria and Tanzania, undergo a procedure of genital cutting; they wrongly believe it to be a religious requirement.[90]

In Africa, missionaries have tried to discourage FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation). However, in some instances, in order to retain converts from other religions, they have either ignored or condoned the continuation of these practices. When in the 1930s European Christians tried to make opposition to FGM a condition of church membership and a test of loyalty, they provoked a far-reaching campaign in colonial Kenya. Mary Nyangweso, a Kenyan researcher who studies "the interplay of religion, culture, and gender",[91] states, "Christianity, it is important to stress, does not advocate the total eradication of the Nandi female initiation rite. Rather it advocates the need to eradicate the practice of female circumcision that involves clitoridectomy and excision because it is physically unhealthy and does not conform to Christian teaching. The initiation rite can continue to be practised and the actual circumcision can be replaced by some other symbolic acts not harmful to women's bodies. This can be derived from the culture itself or Scripture that now forms part of the Nandi way of life."[92]

Christians do not believe in or practice FGM.

yes, they do.

it isn't a religious practice

LOL Christianity is religion.
Sorry, no they do not.

It's a cultural practice - not a religious one. Neither Christianity nor Islam promotes it. Neither bans it either. It's the remnant of a barbaric culture.

 

[Onyx]

What specific health issues are common with circumcision?

Higher risk of disease and infection.

The lack of foreskin also causes heat regulation issues, which affects excretion and ejaculation. This isn't actually a real health concern persay, but nonetheless it is a noticeable body change.

I have to say...all the men I've known have been circumsized and none have had any health issues.

You know that argument by observation is not credible.

There are plenty of women that have had their clitoris cut, and have lived long healthy lives.

There is a vast difference between doing it to an infant and doing it to an adolescent woman.

Not sure what this means, but I find it beside the point.

The greater question is whether women should have the liberty to alter their bodies.[/quote][/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Throughout the ENTIRE Western world, Female Genital Mutilation is illegal and is punishable by arrest and trial.

No, that is actually not true. Could you back that up for the over 50-60 westernized nations in the world?

You don't have a clue what you are babbling about.

We'll see.

No you show me where FGM is LEGAL in the Western world, where parents can go to Western nation hospitals and ask for their daughter to have EVERYTHING removed and the doctors and medical staff to agree to that and NOT be prosecuted and lose their medical licences.

 

[Onyx]

No you show me where FGM is LEGAL in the Western world

Wherever it is not illegal. Not all westernized countries have all encompassing laws against female genital mutilation.

At any rate, they shouldn't.

 

[Coyote]

Are you anti-women? You must be if you're fine with female genital mutilation.

It depends.

Is giving women the choice to alter their own bodies anti-women?

Male circumcision isn't male genital mutilation and also it's performed for a variety of reasons, including in teenage boys and adult males if the foreskin becomes too tight.

Likewise, women can cut their clitoris (technically defined as FGM) to temper sex addictions.

That's a bit of a false argument.

MOST fgm is done for cultural reasons that have nothing to do with sex addictions. It's done as a right of passage and it is NOT done in clean anesthisized conditions like a hospital.

Female genital mutilation (FGM) frequently asked questions | UNFPA - United Nations Population Fund

What instruments are used to perform FGM?


FGM is carried out with special knives, scissors, scalpels, pieces of glass or razor blades. Anaesthetic and antiseptics are generally not used unless the procedure is carried out by medical practitioners. In communities where infibulations is practiced, girls' legs are often bound together to immobilize them for 10 - 14 days, allowing the formation of scar tissue.


Why is FGM performed?

In every society in which it is practiced, female genital mutilation is a manifestation of deeply entrenched gender inequality. Where it is widely practiced, FGM is supported by both men and women, usually without question, and anyone that does not follow the norm may face condemnation, harassment and ostracism. It may be difficult for families to abandon the practice without support from the wider community. In fact, it is often practiced even when it is known to inflict harm upon girls because the perceived social benefits of the practice are deemed higher than its disadvantages.


The reasons given for practicing FGM fall generally into five categories:


Psychosexual reasons: FGM is carried out as a way to control women’s sexuality, which is sometimes said to be insatiable if parts of the genitalia, especially the clitoris, are not removed. It is thought to ensure virginity before marriage and fidelity afterward, and to increase male sexual pleasure.
Sociological and cultural reasons: FGM is seen as part of a girl’s initiation into womanhood and as an intrinsic part of a community’s cultural heritage. Sometimes myths about female genitalia (e.g., that an uncut clitoris will grow to the size of a penis, or that FGM will enhance fertility or promote child survival) perpetuate the practice.
Hygiene and aesthetic reasons: In some communities, the external female genitalia are considered dirty and ugly and are removed, ostensibly to promote hygiene and aesthetic appeal.
Religious reasons: Although FGM is not endorsed by either Islam or by Christianity, supposed religious doctrine is often used to justify the practice.
Socio-economic factors: In many communities, FGM is a prerequisite for marriage. Where women are largely dependent on men, economic necessity can be a major driver of the procedure. FGM sometimes is a prerequisite for the right to inherit. It may also be a major income source for practitioners.


Is FGM required by certain religions?

No religion promotes or condones FGM. Still, more than half of girls and women in four out of 14 countries where data is available saw FGM as a religious requirement. And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions.


FGM is thus a cultural rather than a religious practice. In fact, many religious leaders have denounced it.


​

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

It's a horrible practice, and it's practiced by Christians too:

Religious views on female genital mutilation - Wikipedia

There are currently campaigns against it in certain parts of Africa.

From your link...

The Christian Bible (New Testament) does not mention female circumcision (i.e. removal of clitoral hood ) or female genital mutilation (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation).[88][89]

Christian authorities unanimously agree that FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation) has no foundation in the religious texts of Christianity.[90]

Some Christian women, in Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria and Tanzania, undergo a procedure of genital cutting; they wrongly believe it to be a religious requirement.[90]

In Africa, missionaries have tried to discourage FGM (i.e. clitoridectomy and infibulation). However, in some instances, in order to retain converts from other religions, they have either ignored or condoned the continuation of these practices. When in the 1930s European Christians tried to make opposition to FGM a condition of church membership and a test of loyalty, they provoked a far-reaching campaign in colonial Kenya. Mary Nyangweso, a Kenyan researcher who studies "the interplay of religion, culture, and gender",[91] states, "Christianity, it is important to stress, does not advocate the total eradication of the Nandi female initiation rite. Rather it advocates the need to eradicate the practice of female circumcision that involves clitoridectomy and excision because it is physically unhealthy and does not conform to Christian teaching. The initiation rite can continue to be practised and the actual circumcision can be replaced by some other symbolic acts not harmful to women's bodies. This can be derived from the culture itself or Scripture that now forms part of the Nandi way of life."[92]

Christians do not believe in or practice FGM.

yes, they do.

it isn't a religious practice

LOL Christianity is religion.
Sorry, no they do not.

It's a cultural practice - not a religious one. Neither Christianity nor Islam promotes it. Neither bans it either. It's the remnant of a barbaric culture.

I agree it's more a Cultural Practice, a barbaric and evil Cultural Practice that should have been abandoned pre-Middle Ages.

There should be Zero Tolerance for FGM anywhere on this planet.