Zone1 Fascination with the Devil and Hell

[Donald H]

I am focused more on what America is doing to itself and the problems right here in our own country.

Yes, and that's a wise choice to make.
Do you think you can ignore America's foreign policy?

First, I'm of the opinion that neither Russia or America will consent to being beaten this time.

Can you reason that nuclear war can be avoided?

I won't belabour the question anymore but I 'am' interested in hearing your opinions on the pitfalls of domestic politics and policy. Canada follows closely in some respects.

 

[Father O'Blivion]

Then we live in the mess we make until we clean it up. Think about it. Are we the servants of God, or do we consider God the servant (not to mention genii) of man?

Why would He make the mess in first place He knows will happen by putting out unclear information? Plus, He already knows how we will handle the mess anyway, so what is the point?

 

[ActionJackson]

Yes, and that's a wise choice to make.
Do you think you can ignore America's foreign policy?

First, I'm of the opinion that neither Russia or America will consent to being beaten this time.

Can you reason that nuclear war can be avoided?

I won't belabour the question anymore but I 'am' interested in hearing your opinions on the pitfalls of domestic politics and policy. Canada follows closely in some respects.

None of those distractions matter in the long run. The Bible tells us that a final climax of mankind's existence will culminate in Christ and His angels defeating all evil and ushering in His perfect Kingdom. That's all that matters in the long run. Men have the potential to be, and do, evil. But Christ shed His blood and died on the cross so that the sins of all mankind are atoned for.

Any time that foreign or domestic policy is predicated on evil intent (Godless intent) then they become part of the problem ... not the solution.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, and that's a wise choice to make.
Do you think you can ignore America's foreign policy?

First, I'm of the opinion that neither Russia or America will consent to being beaten this time.

Can you reason that nuclear war can be avoided?

I won't belabour the question anymore but I 'am' interested in hearing your opinions on the pitfalls of domestic politics and policy. Canada follows closely in some respects.

The problem is we can not go back in time and keep a certain Vice-President out of Ukraine to begin with. Next, we cannot undo the rumbles of then adding additional allies to NATO which I often wonder led to Putin thinking of a preemptive strike. Finally, we cannot undo an election. So now we are all lemmings heading towards the cliff. On the way down off the cliff, we will be thinking, Oops, changed my mind. Too little. Too late.

 

[Meriweather]

Why would He make the mess in first place He knows will happen by putting out unclear information? Plus, He already knows how we will handle the mess anyway, so what is the point?

Is God the one who made the mess? Is He the one who is unclear? Shouldn't we be looking at ourselves? For example, God gave us ten simple commandments. What do we do? We decide to clarify those ten by adding over six hundred more which are supposed to explain those first ten better. I believe on the Federal level we are up over 30,000 now.

 

[Donald H]

The problem is we can not go back in time and keep a certain Vice-President out of Ukraine to begin with.

Sorry, I'm missing the 'certain' VP comment. Pence? it seems logical that's who you mean? Can you clarify your point for my benefit.

Next, we cannot undo the rumbles of then adding additional allies to NATO which I often wonder led to Putin thinking of a preemptive strike.

Well that's the big bone of contention! I don't think we can gain anything by debating that. Say more or not as you wish.

Finally, we cannot undo an election. So now we are all lemmings heading towards the cliff.

That leaves me in the dark on account of me not being familiar with your political POV.

On the way down off the cliff, we will be thinking, Oops, changed my mind. Too little. Too late.

I'll just say that's worthy of discussion if it can be prevented.

I'm hoping we can find some common ground that we can discuss further. There are very few here on this board that I consider as worthy as you.

 

[Father O'Blivion]

Is God the one who made the mess? Is He the one who is unclear? Shouldn't we be looking at ourselves? For example, God gave us ten simple commandments. What do we do? We decide to clarify those ten by adding over six hundred more which are supposed to explain those first ten better. I believe on the Federal level we are up over 30,000 now.

Which He knew was going to happen unless He came down and did something about it.

Do you suppose enjoys watching it even though He already knows it's going to happen?

 

[alang1216]

The Spanish flu was a virus. It wasn't a person attacking other people. One of my great-grandmothers was a victim of the Spanish flu, and after her death the family pitched in to fill the hole left by the loss of her life.

Did God create the Spanish flu?

 

[Ace Nova]

Is God the one who made the mess? Is He the one who is unclear? Shouldn't we be looking at ourselves? For example, God gave us ten simple commandments. What do we do? We decide to clarify those ten by adding over six hundred more which are supposed to explain those first ten better. I believe on the Federal level we are up over 30,000 now.

Yes, we should be looking at ourselves. 10 commandments turned into hundreds of laws, etc. And they keep going and going and going....

Why?

Because we do not listen to the Word.

Matthew 22:34

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together.

One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

This is the first and greatest commandment.

And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


What does this mean?

 

[Foxfyre]

My family has a genealogical connection to the Salem Witch Trials, so I have been reading the newly released book, Killing the Witches. In any religion forum, ours included, there are threads about Satan, hell, devils, the anti-Christ, etc. In fact, atheists are even gung-ho on making God out to be evil.

What is wrong with us as a people? Spectators delighted in seeing people hanged, burned, pressed to death under stones. The good people back then who did protest or help the accused remind me of ourselves today: While bad things erupt all around us our efforts now come across as puny as those who lived through the witch trials then. God is good! So why the fascination and the power of evil?

In Matthew, Mark, and Luke you find a warning that to 'blaspheme the Holy Spirit' is the unpardonable sin. To show contempt for, to insult God's work as the Holy Spirit by attributing it to Satan/the Devil is the ultimate rejection of the God/the Christ. Described as 'the unpardonable sin' for those with that attitude or mindset.

Within that concept is the description of mortal sin as evil/mean spirited/hateful acts or words that separate the sinner from God's grace. Now that of course is rather ambiguous and theologians from the First Century on have struggled to cope with the concept of God's grace versus those who reject it as Paul wrote in Romans: "If God be for us, who can be against us.?" But Jesus was pretty adamant in his quote, "Whoever causes a child to stumble (lose his/her faith) would be better for that person to have a millstone hung around his/her neck and be drowned in the sea."

Yet again and again we see unspeakable evil against people of faith--The Roman persecutions, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, the pograms, massacres, Salem Witch Trials, the KKK, mass shootings, and many cases of bad things that happen to godly devout people.

In America, it does seem especially bad at this time with religion, most especially Christianity, under political assault in a way most of us as Americans have never experienced until recent decades. And it is having a terrible impact on society with us seeing more viciousness, hatefulness, mob mentality, pure evil.

Why does God allow it? Because God gave us free will to choose right or wrong, good or evil, justice or not so that we can experience love, joy, hope, anticipation, delight. But free choice also gives us ability to choose hatefulness, judgmentalism, corruption, malicious hurtfulness, deviancy, immorality and far too many people do.

The Bible teaches us that there will always be those who choose and do evil, people who will attack and try to talk us out of our faith, who do the work of Satan.

At the same time, people of faith are the primary reason there is agape love, charity, compassion. goodness in the world. That Christianity remains the No. 1 religion in the world despite all those who misused/abused it, despite all the efforts to destroy it, despite those who embrace Satan in trying to destroy people's faith. . .that is an incredible testimony to God's power.

Our job as Christians is to resist/reject evil and live our lives as an example of God's goodness, justice, peace, assurance.

 

[BreezeWood]

We, the citizens, are doing all of this. We are permitting it at worse, looking the other way at best. The last thing we need is another hell.

no ...

the desert religions, christianity uninterrupted throughout history having used their documents of injustice - persecuted and victimized the innocent from their beginnings to the present day.

Who elects those who stand between parents and children?

and who allows children to read the christian bible, any of the desert documents of servitude and denial, evil and corruption at their highest levels. the false, demonic - 10 commandments.

 

[BULLDOG]

Except, there is so much good, arguably more. Why can't the good be more effective against ignorance and evil?

Still not sure why god created satan knowing how things would turn out. Not sure why he would create some people, knowing that nothing they might do, say, or think would keep them from hell. Seems a lot like a kid with a magnifying glass and some ants.

 

[miketx]

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long years
Stole million man's soul an faith...

 

[miketx]

My family has a genealogical connection to the Salem Witch Trials, so I have been reading the newly released book, Killing the Witches. In any religion forum, ours included, there are threads about Satan, hell, devils, the anti-Christ, etc. In fact, atheists are even gung-ho on making God out to be evil.

What is wrong with us as a people? Spectators delighted in seeing people hanged, burned, pressed to death under stones. The good people back then who did protest or help the accused remind me of ourselves today: While bad things erupt all around us our efforts now come across as puny as those who lived through the witch trials then. God is good! So why the fascination and the power of evil?

We drove through Salem on the highway one time. Saw this state road sign that said Leave Salem. Weird.

 

[Meriweather]

Which He knew was going to happen unless He came down and did something about it.

Do you suppose enjoys watching it even though He already knows it's going to happen?

We have such different perceptions of God, there may not be a meeting ground. You seem to think God knows what is going to happen before it happens.

Let's start with what we do know which is mankind wanted to know both good and evil. Did the teen girls know they were lying? Absolutely. And they knew people were being put to death based on the lies they were telling, the performances they were exhibiting. As for the adults: When they accused a four-year-old of being a witch, the little girl was put into a dark, unsanitary prison cell where over her months of incarceration she slowly went insane and never recovered. Girls may have accused her, but adults threw a four-year-old into a jail cell, mistreated her, barely fed her. And you want to blame God?!

Let's look at the other side where humans also wanted to, like God, bring goodness out of evil. In the case of Salem, evil was all around them and prevailed for months where many good people seemed at a loss for way too long. And the evil was being stirred up by mere children--although, admittedly, too many adults were eager to take advantage of the situation for their own power and monetary gain. Evil, power, and money against the rest.

You believe the answer is for God to step in. Wouldn't that have the people crying, "No fair! You said we could know evil!" Wouldn't the people who want to learn how to bring good out of evil begin grumbling how can they learn to do this when God is always stepping in and whipping things back into shape before anyone else even has a chance.

What say you? Do you want to know both good and evil, or would you elect to remain oblivious? Do you want someone else to dress and feed you, or would you prefer to learn to do it yourself?
My question is why does it take us so long to turn evil to good? As far as Salem goes...there is the point that the witch trials ended far sooner than we were able to end slavery.

 

[Meriweather]

Did God create the Spanish flu?

Jump rope chant for little girls during the Spanish flu epidemic:

I had a little bird
And its name was Enza
I opened the window
And in-flew-Enza

Another "fun fact". It is more than likely that the Spanish flu began because of very crowded, very unsanitary conditions in a US military base in Kansas.

Was God responsible for crowding the military base? Was He responsible for the unsanitary conditions at the base?

 

[Ace Nova]

no ...

View attachment 835858

the desert religions, christianity uninterrupted throughout history having used their documents of injustice - persecuted and victimized the innocent from their beginnings to the present day.



and who allows children to read the christian bible, any of the desert documents of servitude and denial, evil and corruption at their highest levels. the false, demonic - 10 commandments.

Here we go again with your nonsense.
.

To follow are the 10 commandments. I will interpret them to present day meaning in bold:


1 “You shall have no other gods before me".

(You have a choice. If you follow God, you choose to take his path. If you choose a different path, you are not following God's path)

2 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

(Again, you have a choice.) You can follow false idols that will lead you and your family astray for generations or you can follow God's proven path to salvation for you, your family and thousands of generations that continue to follow his path.



3. “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

Don't use God's name (or religion) for financial gain, social gain, business gain, personal gain, etc.

4 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Respect and give tribute to God, your family and yourself on your day off from work and respect feast days.

5. “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you."

Respect and honor your parents, family and respect and honor those that came before you throughout history and helped you become who you are now.

6. “You shall not murder."

Clear as day. Don't murder/kill each other.


7. “You shall not commit adultery."

Don't cheat on your spouse.



8. “You shall not steal."

Clear as day: Don't steal from each other or anyone/anything.

9. “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor."

Don't falsely accuse each other and don't lie to each other.


10 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Respect other people's property




Exactly what part of these commandments are "demonic" in your misguided opinion?

 

[Meriweather]

What does this mean?

Let's bring the idea to Salem. Love God, love one's neighbor. The reason the witch trials flourished there was because some people believed that their love of God had them fighting the devil and the witches who they claimed signed the Devil's book. Their love of neighbor meant they had to get rid of those who were witches before they could delude family, friends, and neighbors into signing the Devil's book.

Those who were doing evil were vowing and convincing others their evil was for the good or ultimate good.

Ever notice how often people who are doing evil assert what they are doing is good? How should good answer that?

 

[Meriweather]

Our job as Christians is to resist/reject evil and live our lives as an example of God's goodness, justice, peace, assurance.

I agree. The question is whether sometimes we stay too long in our own lives when we should be stepping up and into the lives of others and acting. How many of the Salem deaths could/might have been prevented had more stepped up instead of remaining bystanders?

And, to be fair, how many more deaths might have occurred because people dared to be up-standers? Christ may be a good example of the price people pay for daring to do that.

 

[Meriweather]

Still not sure why god created satan knowing how things would turn out. Not sure why he would create some people, knowing that nothing they might do, say, or think would keep them from hell. Seems a lot like a kid with a magnifying glass and some ants.

It is interesting how many believe God knows how everything will unfold and turn out before He even begins His creation. I see it differently. What if God doesn't know how everything will unfold and that doesn't even matter because He can handle anything that does unfold?