Faith is Born from Fear

[PratchettFan]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Religion uses guilt and fear to herd people into certain behaviors.
That has always been the case I think.

That people use peoples' inherent fears to control them does nothing to prove there is a God or to disprove it.

The consistency and repetition in nature; the laws of physics and math that were there before men discovered them point to intelligent creation. It may be that our Creator is NOT the judgmental being that humankind has built It so be. It may be that our Souls are created by the Creator to learn, to experience ........so that the Creator can experience something beyond the loneliness of just being.

Perhaps we are flawed for a purpose. Maybe in order for us to not be God's little robots, we are given flaws and challenges where we can make decisions on our own, not subject to God's choices for us. Free choice makes it necessary to have flaws to work with.

In my belief, every single person belongs to God. At some point a Soul will realize itself. Young Souls might not be to that point of realization yet. But that non-realizing Soul is just as loved by God as is the older self-realizing Soul.

This is one of many possibilities
I believe that our religions take a very narrow view of things.
Maybe some atheists should look beyond religion before they declare that they don't believe in Intelligent Design. What is God? What does God do? What can God do?

I hold many views that are analogous to the ones you've stated here, though it may not seem like I do based on my OP. For example. I don't agree with the traditional idea of Intelligent Design based on the fundamentalist Christian perspective but I do sometimes wonder if the processes of evolution aren't subtly and minutely guided by some sentient force. It would at times seem that way though given the nature of the cosmos I would say that if something created us then it would be vastly different than any of the gods depicted by man so far. It may very well have its own limitations just as we have ours.

I am glad you are open minded.
To even begin to break away from historical religious belief and explore that really might be regarding Intelligent Design ......requires an open mind.

Religions have their purpose. They help to keep us somewhat civilized (even though they also produce zealots that make the full circle and kill).

Let's say that the Creator made the rules, then implemented them. If we break the rules (breathe under water for example) we suffer the consequences. That's awful, but it makes sense. But then, someone who is making up a religion says "God says breathing under water is a sin and if you do that ........God will kill you". Well, right away..... we get the idea that God is a vengeful God. But a religion is born.

Rules of physics and biology and mathematics are necessary to have a cohesive universe that won't just fall apart. But God doesn't hate us if we break those rules....... the consequences, though, are built in.

I believe strongly in Intelligent Design.

I'm not sure what I believe would be intelligent design as that implies an outside force. I think there is a controlling aspect to our universe but I don't think it is cognizant of us. I think it was Delta who used the analogy of a single blood cell inside a human body and I think it apt. Your body is currently creating blood cells but you aren't really aware it is happening. Yet it is all you.

I have no reason to believe that to be the case with the universe, but it does feel right to me. Until something better comes along, you should always go with your gut. I believe the problems we run into are when we insist other people go with our gut.

I agree with what you said in the last sentence. The other part is also one of the many possibilities regarding our creation. There is no need to insist others believe like we do. It is okay to express our beliefs in appropriate places, at appropriate times, but stops being okay when coercion to agree comes into play.

Exactly. We should be able to punch them in the face if they say believe or go to hell. That is so insulting. They have freedom of speech but sometimes what you say can get your ass kicked.

I have been a non-Christian all of my life. I have yet to have anyone threaten violence against me as a result. If you have, I expect it had more to do with delivery than content.

If you don't believe in hell, how can it be an insult?

 

[sealybobo]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

You are doing to others what you complain others are doing to you.

I am doing no such thing. I do not complain about the criticism of my ideas in fact I welcome and cherish it. I welcome Christians to make the same criticizing statements about my views because that is a vital part of how a free society works. What I complain about is when my rights and the rights of other minorities are infringed upon by the Christian majority in the name of their specific values.

Yes, you are. You are taking an entire class of people and sticking them into a little box and slapping a label on it. You are acting in exactly the same manner as the people you are complaining about.

The fundamental difference is that I am not trying to get laws passed that limit their freedom of expression.

I have no idea what you personally might be doing, but to say Atheists have not tried to do this is flat wrong. In fact, most of the attempts to limit freedom of expression I can think of have come from either Atheists or the left.

We want an Atheist display next to your Christmas displays. We want a booth next to Santa to talk to all the kids that don't believe in Santa or Xmas. And we want to put up right next to the Prayer you have in our school a sign that says THERE IS NO GOD and a Website where students can go see that their parents and churches have quite possibly been feeding them a fairy tale for the last 3-18 years. Let them decide after seeing both sides of the argument. But instead it is you who wouldn't dare let us have a place in society because we would expose your lie.

So don't cry about us. We sit quietly and let your religious holidays go by and some of us even participate. I like Easter and Xmas for the family. I skip church. The people bore me. Should I find a new church? Why? Am I doing it because I believe in God or because I want to meet new friends and have fun?

For some they believe because they want to believe. They don't want to be the odd ball in the flock. They enjoy church and the people at church. Met their wives or husbands at church. I know there is a lot of good that comes out of this cult but a lot of bad comes too. Like Ghandi said. Christ sounded like a good man. It's Christians that he had a problem with. AGREED!

Put them there. Who is stopping you? Don't go to church. Who is making you? You make a comment about limiting freedom expression, so let's deal with that claim. You want to match law for law, lawsuit for lawsuit, on which side is doing that the most? Heck, I'll start... Justices allow cross on public land in California - USATODAY.com

Your turn.

Frank Buono, a retired park service worker, had sued the National Park Service for allowing the Christian cross but no other religious symbols at the California site.

NO OTHER RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS. Nuff Said.

Lower U.S. courts sided with Buono and ruled that the cross violated the required constitutional separation of church and state under the First Amendment.

The issue for the justices Wednesday was not the finding of a constitutional violation, but rather whether a 2004 land-transfer law was permissible. To avoid the appearance of government endorsement of religion, Congress ordered a transfer of the property on which the cross sits to the VFW, in exchange for a parcel elsewhere in the preserve.

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ALL THE DETAILS IDIOT.

Kennedy spoke favorably of Congress' attempt "to eliminate any perception of religious sponsorship …

I know the details. Your claim was about limiting freedom of expression. That lawsuit was intended to limit freedom of expression regardless of the details. So all you are doing is attempting to justify it. I'm still waiting for you to come up with something similar.

I

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Religion uses guilt and fear to herd people into certain behaviors.
That has always been the case I think.

That people use peoples' inherent fears to control them does nothing to prove there is a God or to disprove it.

The consistency and repetition in nature; the laws of physics and math that were there before men discovered them point to intelligent creation. It may be that our Creator is NOT the judgmental being that humankind has built It so be. It may be that our Souls are created by the Creator to learn, to experience ........so that the Creator can experience something beyond the loneliness of just being.

Perhaps we are flawed for a purpose. Maybe in order for us to not be God's little robots, we are given flaws and challenges where we can make decisions on our own, not subject to God's choices for us. Free choice makes it necessary to have flaws to work with.

In my belief, every single person belongs to God. At some point a Soul will realize itself. Young Souls might not be to that point of realization yet. But that non-realizing Soul is just as loved by God as is the older self-realizing Soul.

This is one of many possibilities
I believe that our religions take a very narrow view of things.
Maybe some atheists should look beyond religion before they declare that they don't believe in Intelligent Design. What is God? What does God do? What can God do?

I hold many views that are analogous to the ones you've stated here, though it may not seem like I do based on my OP. For example. I don't agree with the traditional idea of Intelligent Design based on the fundamentalist Christian perspective but I do sometimes wonder if the processes of evolution aren't subtly and minutely guided by some sentient force. It would at times seem that way though given the nature of the cosmos I would say that if something created us then it would be vastly different than any of the gods depicted by man so far. It may very well have its own limitations just as we have ours.

I am glad you are open minded.
To even begin to break away from historical religious belief and explore that really might be regarding Intelligent Design ......requires an open mind.

Religions have their purpose. They help to keep us somewhat civilized (even though they also produce zealots that make the full circle and kill).

Let's say that the Creator made the rules, then implemented them. If we break the rules (breathe under water for example) we suffer the consequences. That's awful, but it makes sense. But then, someone who is making up a religion says "God says breathing under water is a sin and if you do that ........God will kill you". Well, right away..... we get the idea that God is a vengeful God. But a religion is born.

Rules of physics and biology and mathematics are necessary to have a cohesive universe that won't just fall apart. But God doesn't hate us if we break those rules....... the consequences, though, are built in.

I believe strongly in Intelligent Design.

I'm not sure what I believe would be intelligent design as that implies an outside force. I think there is a controlling aspect to our universe but I don't think it is cognizant of us. I think it was Delta who used the analogy of a single blood cell inside a human body and I think it apt. Your body is currently creating blood cells but you aren't really aware it is happening. Yet it is all you.

I have no reason to believe that to be the case with the universe, but it does feel right to me. Until something better comes along, you should always go with your gut. I believe the problems we run into are when we insist other people go with our gut.

I agree with what you said in the last sentence. The other part is also one of the many possibilities regarding our creation. There is no need to insist others believe like we do. It is okay to express our beliefs in appropriate places, at appropriate times, but stops being okay when coercion to agree comes into play.

Exactly. We should be able to punch them in the face if they say believe or go to hell. That is so insulting. They have freedom of speech but sometimes what you say can get your ass kicked.

I have been a non-Christian all of my life. I have yet to have anyone threaten violence against me as a result. If you have, I expect it had more to do with delivery than content.

If you don't believe in hell, how can it be an insult?

It is a very insulting and creepy conversation when a born again approaches you and asks if you know where you are going when you die.

When I was a christian, I use to tell them that it was us Greeks that translated the bible from the old writing into Greek then eventually English. We told you white people what the bible said so please don't you now try to tell me what the bible says.

And after talking to you cry babies about freedom of speech, I have decided that I'm going to start acting like christians. I'm going to go to the mall and walk up to people with a flyer with a link to an atheist website and I'm going to ask them if they realize god is a lie.

Freedom of speech, right guys? Do you have a problem with me approaching your kids in the mall and telling them that their parents and church have been lying to them?

 

[PratchettFan]

It is a very insulting and creepy conversation when a born again approaches you and asks if you know where you are going when you die.

When I was a christian, I use to tell them that it was us Greeks that translated the bible from the old writing into Greek then eventually English. We told you white people what the bible said so please don't you now try to tell me what the bible says.

And after talking to you cry babies about freedom of speech, I have decided that I'm going to start acting like christians. I'm going to go to the mall and walk up to people with a flyer with a link to an atheist website and I'm going to ask them if they realize god is a lie.

Freedom of speech, right guys? Do you have a problem with me approaching your kids in the mall and telling them that their parents and church have been lying to them?

I told you, I'm not a Christian. And you are the one who brought up freedom of speech, you just know you can't support it.

As to your pamphlets... do it. Who's stopping you? Proselytize to your heart's content. Preach on street corners. No one is oppressing you no matter how much you wish they were. It is entirely in your head.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Faith was born out of desire to understand. "Out of fear" may be the same thing. At the dawn of history, man asked, why does the sun rise and fall in the sky, what is lightning, what is fire, why does it snow, who are the boogie men over the mountain, etc.... Long before science and enlightenment, deity was invented to explain the theretofore unexplained. Not knowing any different, faith was born.

Religion came later by men who desired control.

Atheism came much, much later. Nothing wrong with atheism, in my opinion, up to the point they ridicule and demean, because they too often misunderstand or ignore the great values that have also been born from our history of faith.

Nope, that is all backwards!

Everyone is born an atheist. No one is born with the knowledge of any deity or religion.

Religion came next and invented deities. Since there was no evidence of the existence of these deities faith was invented as means of explaining away the lack of evidence.

Religion has been and still is both a positive and negative influence on society. Overall it is more positive than negative from an individual perspective.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Then let me ask you the same question:
What if you are wrong?
See, thing is, if a Christian is wrong about an after life, no harm no foul, we simply cease to exist. On the other hand if you are wrong, you have denied yourself and your children of an eternity with their loving Father as the Royal Heirs of God.

Fear has nothing to do with a relationship with the Father. Love has everything to do with it. I hope you experience that Agape love someday.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Le'ts say that I'm 100% (minus .000 ... 01%) certain there's no gods as you think of them. So while I"m living life to the fullest doing good works just to be good for the helluvit (while hoping to lead by example) you're going through your life trying to instill fear into people threatening them with eternal torture and pain and misery...So they don't get that after they die? But you'll give them the emotional equivilent of hell while they're still alive never really making that connection huh?

Even if you think there is a 1 in 10^60 that you are wrong then it's a big mistake to risk spending eternity in Hell.

Thanks for proving the OP's point that your religion is fear based.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Poorly thought out.

You say that we don't examine ourselves and ask what if there is no God. The truth is, we have and have reached the logical conclusion that if there is no God, then we're no worse off than you are. However, if God existence is proven out after the death of the physical body, then is sucks to be you.

In addition. What right do you have to even question My beliefs?

Firstly: See my previous statements on Pascal's Wager why there is nothing logical about it.
Second: What makes you think your beliefs are about questioning.? Nothing is above scrutiny not even your God.

I could care less about your take on Pascal's Wager. The logic of it cannot be refuted. The flaw then must be with you.

When it comes to anyone other than yourself, to question motives is nothing more than to fulfill a fear inside yourself.

I don't care about you not believing. I don't even care that you find some offense at others who do believe.

I only care when you try to take away My natural right to have faith, and to have that faith in the way I see fit.

I also don't get offended by your non-belief, nor do I promote or advocate that your non-belief be removed from the public square.

YOUR kind, however; cannot say the same.

Now, have a nice day.

If you are swayed by the logic of Pascal's wager and claim that it is irrefutable then how about the irrefutable logic that proves that your creator cannot be omnipotent because omnipotence is a paradox?

Are you willing to concede that your creator is not omnipotent?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Perfect love casts out fear. Fear is reserved for those who have not accepted the propitiation of Christ. Christians have no NEED to fear.
We are not appointed to Hell. The only fear we have is for those who prefer Hell over the love of Christ.

 

[PratchettFan]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Then let me ask you the same question:
What if you are wrong?
See, thing is, if a Christian is wrong about an after life, no harm no foul, we simply cease to exist. On the other hand if you are wrong, you have denied yourself and your children of an eternity with their loving Father as the Royal Heirs of God.

Fear has nothing to do with a relationship with the Father. Love has everything to do with it. I hope you experience that Agape love someday.

That only works if the original premise is correct and it is about fear. If I told you that you must believe in Vishnu or you were going to burn in hell, could you decide to believe just to cover your bases? I don't mean would you... could you? Could you just change your beliefs?

 

[Unkotare]

Faith is born from hope. The highest expression of the human condition and human cognition.

 

[The Irish Ram]

That only works if the original premise is correct and it is about fear. If I told you that you must believe in Vishnu or you were going to burn in hell, could you decide to believe just to cover your bases? I don't mean would you... could you? Could you just change your beliefs?

No, just like Abraham didn't fear destroying the idols in His Father's workshop. To the contrary, he challenged the idols to fix themselves if they were so powerful. That fearless act caused Abraham to be blessed for eternity, along with His entire house.

 

[PostmodernProph]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

what is there to fear about oblivion......certainly no one can experience it since there would nothing to experience......

 

[The Irish Ram]

"As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever."

ABud, What on earth makes you think that Christians ignore the "unpleasantry" of the world? To the contrary, ask the next Christian hung on a cross, buried alive, burned in their churches, beheaded, if they noticed. Want unpleasantries? Read Revelation. We are not unaware. We are prepared.

For those living in despair there is a remedy:

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

 

[PratchettFan]

That only works if the original premise is correct and it is about fear. If I told you that you must believe in Vishnu or you were going to burn in hell, could you decide to believe just to cover your bases? I don't mean would you... could you? Could you just change your beliefs?

No, just like Abraham didn't fear destroying the idols in His Father's workshop. To the contrary, he challenged the idols to fix themselves if they were so powerful. That fearless act caused Abraham to be blessed for eternity, along with His entire house.

Then appealing to fear is a pointless act.

 

[dblack]

Fear? Why not just believe God?==
Isaiah 41:10
God says=10 So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand

Because he might be full of shit.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

what is there to fear about oblivion......certainly no one can experience it since there would nothing to experience......

It's not the death part that messes with people. It's the absence of life or consciousness. Hitchens made a nice comparison to explain what the feeling might be like. He compared getting the news that you're going to die soon with being at a party that you're really enjoying and getting tapped on the shoulder and told not that the party is over, but that you have to leave and that the party will continue to go on without you. You aren't ready to leave, you want to stay and continue to enjoy the experience. We're social animals. We enjoy the experiences and social interaction that is life. That is why we made up the alternative fantasy of being at the party and having someone tap you on the shoulder and tell you that they have wonderful news. This party is going to go on forever, and you can't leave. And the boss insists that you have a good time.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Faith is born from hope. The highest expression of the human condition and human cognition.

Even if it were, hope and fear are two sides of the same coin. They are two slightly different manifestations of essentially the same thing. You hope for one outcome because you fear the other. You can't have hope without fear.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Then let me ask you the same question:
What if you are wrong?
See, thing is, if a Christian is wrong about an after life, no harm no foul, we simply cease to exist. On the other hand if you are wrong, you have denied yourself and your children of an eternity with their loving Father as the Royal Heirs of God.

Fear has nothing to do with a relationship with the Father. Love has everything to do with it. I hope you experience that Agape love someday.

Pacal's Wager is the most fear based argument against atheism that there is. If you are a Christian simply because you fear what would happen to you and your family if you weren't then I truly feel sorry for you. Also as someone that used to be a Christian I can tell you that it isn't just no harm no foul if you're wrong. If you're wrong then all those times you beat yourself up for falling short, all those times you felt ashamed were for a lie. Part of why some atheists are angry is because they feel lied to. They were lead to say and do objectionable things and condemn others for a lie. Lastly I have a question for you. What if you're wrong? What if you're wrong about Thor, or Zeus, or Allah? Statistically, my chances of being wrong and suffering for it are no different than yours.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I have found truth=God and God says we believers are to share the good news about God's love, I take no pleasure seeing you played for a fool used as satan tool puppet on the road to hell.

So talking with us here about hell and satan and how if we don't believe what you believe we'll be sent to a place of eternal torture and pain and sadness is your idea of sharing the news about God's love is it?

You might wanna take a commercial psychology course somewhere. Your 'sales pitch' needs work.

The" GOOD NEWS" is that Jesus gave his blood and life on the cross to pay your sin debt and buy you a pardon to keep you out of hell but you must chose to accept His love mercy forgiveness or pay your own sin debt=death and hell.

And miss the big bbq at the Lake of Fire Café???? I don't think so. All the best people will be there.

If they were truly the best people, they wouldn't be.

Oh, yes they would. Anyone who would choose to spend eternity with a being who created hell would not qualify as the best.

????....so, the logic is that its better to spend eternity in hell than with the being who created it?......

 

[PratchettFan]

Fear? Why not just believe God?==
Isaiah 41:10
God says=10 So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand

Because I don't. And while you may not be able to understand why I don't, I likewise cannot understand why you do. We believe what we believe, we follow that which we think is right. If that is not good enough for God, then God is truly worthless.