facist law forces mom to give birth just to watch the child die 15 minutes later

[JBeukema]

the kill baby train .

I see I'm wasting my time trying to have an honest and intelligent discussion with you

 

[R.D.]

Nobody asks whether the child suffered- or might have suffered less if euthanize?

Does it matter? The point of wanting to abort was about the parents suffering not the childs

Regardless, all children suffer during childbirth. It's a traumatic experience.

 

[JBeukema]

Fascism is a political belief

One would be hard pressed to identify any ideology at the root of history's many and diverse fascist movements.

I am reading this currently. I suggest you read it also.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Fascism-Robert-Paxton/dp/1400040949"]Amazon.com: The Anatomy of Fascism (9781400040940): Robert O. Paxton: Books[/ame]

 

[gekaap]

So because some judges are capable of doing mental gymnastics, that makes the Constitution thte legal cornerstone of abortion rights?

Im willing to bet if you asked the Founders whether the Constitution was designed to protect the "rights" of people to kill their unborn children, you'd get a unanimous response that it wasn't.

That would be question begging. You're presuming the impropriety of abortion (by referring to it as "killing unborn children") and then pose the question whether it's okay.

The constitution protects a person's privacy, including the privacy of making medical decisions with one's doctor. The fact that you do not like this about the constitution does not make it any less a constitutional fact. And it does not change the fact that the legality of abortion is based in the constitution, and NOT in the judiciary.

 

[Avatar4321]

Nobody asks whether the child suffered- or might have suffered less if euthanize?

How much do you or anyone else suffer by not committing suicide?

non-sequitur

The idea that ending suffering is justification for murder

Murder? How is it murder to help someone who is dying do so as painlessly as possible?

First, it's not non-sequitur to ask how much you are suffering by not committing suicide. Your whole argument is based on the faulty assumption that you can justify murder because of suffering.

Second, The fact that you don't see that intentionally taking someones life unjustly, without authority or due process of law is murder makes me sad. I don't understand how anyone could live in such darkness. What is murder if it's not the intentional, taking of someone's life?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Fascism can also be characterized by a demonization of a certain group of individuals (babies) which justifies murdering them.

So if someone is certain 100% another person will die, them making their death painless a couple days before rather than a slow painful death deserves calling them a murderer?


Some people will stoop to saying anything to defend the beliefs of their bureacrats.

 

[JBeukema]

Nobody asks whether the child suffered- or might have suffered less if euthanize?

Does it matter?

Yes.

The point of wanting to abort was about the parents suffering not the childs

If the child exists as an individual, then the welfare and suffering of the child must be considered. The child becomes a second patient to whom the doctor has no less an obligation than to the mother.

 

[Avatar4321]

So because some judges are capable of doing mental gymnastics, that makes the Constitution thte legal cornerstone of abortion rights?

Im willing to bet if you asked the Founders whether the Constitution was designed to protect the "rights" of people to kill their unborn children, you'd get a unanimous response that it wasn't.

That would be question begging. You're presuming the impropriety of abortion (by referring to it as "killing unborn children") and then pose the question whether it's okay.

The constitution protects a person's privacy, including the privacy of making medical decisions with one's doctor. The fact that you do not like this about the constitution does not make it any less a constitutional fact. And it does not change the fact that the legality of abortion is based in the constitution, and NOT in the judiciary.

It is killing the unborn. It's the very definition of Abortion. How can pointing that out be begging the question?

The Constitution says nothing about abortion. Heck, it doesn't even mention privacy. The legality of abortion is solely based on Roe v. Wade. There is a reason this "right" did not exist for the first 200 years of this nations existance. Because there is no Constitutional right.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Fascism (pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a reactionary, authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4]

Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A woman being kept from receiving proper medical treatment because government says so is authoritarian.

The OP has it right.

Maybe you should read a little more of that wiki article about fascism. Fascism is a political belief that the establishment of the state is the highest achievement of humanity, and government systems that are justified on such a belief. Fascist governments are authoritarian, promote nationalism and militarism, and a corporatist economy generally run by high ranking military personnel or former such personnel. Fascism promotes the belief that violence and war are necessary for the survival of a nation, as a means to maintain and reignite nationalist sentiments.

So, I ask once again, what does this subject have to do with believing that establishment of the state is humanity's greatest accomplishment?

The answer is in your sentences.

The state>doctors according to this law and this instance proves that

Most of the aspects you cut and pasted have nothing to do with this. The parts (i repeat) that do are the authoritarian and "government knows best" attributes.

 

[AllieBaba]

Fascism can also be characterized by a demonization of a certain group of individuals (babies) which justifies murdering them.

So if someone is certain 100% another person will die, them making their death painless a couple days before rather than a slow painful death deserves calling them a murderer?


Some people will stoop to saying anything to defend the beliefs of their bureacrats.

Er..yes.

Becaue what you propose is euthanasia. It's murdering people before their time on the ass backwards assumption you're doing THEM a favor.

BTW, I'm 100 percent certain that you are going to die.

May I off you now? Save you the grief I know is coming to you?

 

[R.D.]

Nobody asks whether the child suffered- or might have suffered less if euthanize?

Does it matter?

Yes.

The point of wanting to abort was about the parents suffering not the childs

If the exists as an individual, then the welfare and suffering of the child must be considered. The child becomes a second patient to whom the doctor has no less an obligation than the mother.

Since it matters to you - there is no indication the child suffered in the womb at all.

Right. The child being the secondary patient to a healthy mother whose physical health was not threated by her in any way was not killed to ease the possible future emotional distress of her mother.

 

[JBeukema]

The Constitution says nothing about abortion.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime,
unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising
in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time
of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense
to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any
criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life,
liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be
taken for public use, without just compensation.

just sayin

 

[JBeukema]

Does it matter?

Yes.

The point of wanting to abort was about the parents suffering not the childs

If the exists as an individual, then the welfare and suffering of the child must be considered. The child becomes a second patient to whom the doctor has no less an obligation than the mother.

Since it matters to you - there is no indication the child suffered in the womb at all.

and after birth?

 

[M14 Shooter]

The parts (i repeat) that do are the authoritarian and "government knows best" attributes.

-I- repeat:
Only if you have re-defined "authoritarian".

 

[gekaap]

It is killing the unborn. It's the very definition of Abortion. How can pointing that out be begging the question?

The definition of "abortion" is to end something that is already underway. Aborting a pregnancy means that you end the pregnancy when it is already underway. You consider the fetus or embryo to be a living person. That is your opinion, you're welcome to it. But there is scant evidence to support it, and therefore by framing the issue only within the scope of your chosen opinion, and then citing any alleged moral offenses based on that opinion, is question begging.

The Constitution says nothing about abortion.

And it says nothing about military funerals or the Phelps'. That doesn't change the fact that they have constitutional rights to picket outside of military funerals.

Heck, it doesn't even mention privacy.

The legal right to privacy is part of the 4th amendment. At best, you have a tomato-tomahto/semantics argument.

The legality of abortion is solely based on Roe v. Wade. There is a reason this "right" did not exist for the first 200 years of this nations existance. Because there is no Constitutional right.

No, you are wrong. The legality of abortion is based on constitutional rights to privacy under the 4th amendment. The rights always existed. The government was infringing upon those rights, but that does not mean that the rights did not exist.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Fascism can also be characterized by a demonization of a certain group of individuals (babies) which justifies murdering them.

So if someone is certain 100% another person will die, them making their death painless a couple days before rather than a slow painful death deserves calling them a murderer?


Some people will stoop to saying anything to defend the beliefs of their bureacrats.

Er..yes.

Becaue what you propose is euthanasia. It's murdering people before their time on the ass backwards assumption you're doing THEM a favor.

BTW, I'm 100 percent certain that you are going to die.

May I off you now? Save you the grief I know is coming to you?

Lol simply amazing.

Craziest comparison I've ever read.

Are you against medically induced comas? Why not let the person wake up, scream in agony until they die, God would probably prefer that instead of messing with his big plan with silly doctor work.

 

[JBeukema]

The parts (i repeat) that do are the authoritarian and "government knows best" attributes.

China is considered fascist now?

 

[JBeukema]

It is killing the unborn. It's the very definition of Abortion. How can pointing that out be begging the question?

The definition of "abortion" is to end something that is already underway. Aborting a pregnancy means that you end the pregnancy when it is already underway.

You're arguing his case for him

You consider the fetus or embryo to be a living person.

So does science

That is your opinion, you're welcome to it. But there is scant evidence to support it

Except for, you know, biology

The legality of abortion is solely based on Roe v. Wade. There is a reason this "right" did not exist for the first 200 years of this nations existance. Because there is no Constitutional right.

No, you are wrong. The legality of abortion is based on constitutional rights to privacy under the 4th amendment

Life trumps privacy

 

[Dr.Drock]

The parts (i repeat) that do are the authoritarian and "government knows best" attributes.

China is considered fascist now?

What definitions do you want me to use besides the the one I gave? If you don't like the words in the definition I found, find me another and I'll give you my opinion.

 

[JBeukema]

Or you could just stop trying to troll like the OP and find an excuse to call people fascists. You could just discuss the matter honestly and reasonably.

You can do that, can't you?