F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Manonthestreet]

Navy Wants to Spend $7.1B on 80 More Super Hornets Over the Next Five Years

USAF increases scope of F-16 SLEP to include more aircraft and airframe hours | Jane's 360
While the service had previously stated that up to 300 of the service's 1,017 Block 40/42 and 50/52 C- and D-model aircraft would see their airframe hours increased from the current 8,000 hours to 12,000 hours (an increase equivalent to about eight years of operational flying), a notice posted by the service on the Federal Business Opportunities (FedBizOpps) website on 12 June says that these numbers are now to grow to 841 aircraft and 13,856 hours.

Two votes of no confidence in F-35 being anywhere near rdy or capable in near future.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Navy Wants to Spend $7.1B on 80 More Super Hornets Over the Next Five Years

USAF increases scope of F-16 SLEP to include more aircraft and airframe hours | Jane's 360
While the service had previously stated that up to 300 of the service's 1,017 Block 40/42 and 50/52 C- and D-model aircraft would see their airframe hours increased from the current 8,000 hours to 12,000 hours (an increase equivalent to about eight years of operational flying), a notice posted by the service on the Federal Business Opportunities (FedBizOpps) website on 12 June says that these numbers are now to grow to 841 aircraft and 13,856 hours.

Two votes of no confidence in F-35 being anywhere near rdy or capable in near future.

Let's take a look at something.

The F-15C/F-16C that they need to upgrade are both in sorry shape. And there isn't enough money to replace them either. It's either extend their lives or have a few hundred fighters less. Even the F-35 can't do anything about that.

The F-18C/D is so inferior that it's not even funny. It's also about 40 years old. There goes another few hundred fighters from the Navies inventory. It's either upgrade them (and still have an inferior bird) or replace them. There is only X amount of bucks to do around.

Give it a break, Snydlee.

 

[DrainBamage]

Two votes of no confidence in F-35 being anywhere near rdy or capable in near future.

Only someone with your bizarre dogmatic criticism of the plane would assume it's about capability of the F-35.

Then again you've come up so with much laughable stuff that was easily disproven your credibility around here is zero.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Two votes of no confidence in F-35 being anywhere near rdy or capable in near future.

Only someone with your bizarre dogmatic criticism of the plane would assume it's about capability of the F-35.

Then again you've come up so with much laughable stuff that was easily disproven your credibility around here is zero.

Seems like just yesterday they were yapping we gotta retire all these so we can buy enough F35 as soon as possible. Ah the good ol days.

 

[DrainBamage]

Seems like just yesterday they were yapping we gotta retire all these so we can buy enough F35 as soon as possible. Ah the good ol days.

Seems like yesterday you were saying the F-35 couldn't fight, then it went 20-1 in Red Flag.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Those are new F18 buys not refurbs.....adding over 500 more F-16 to upgrade work list........they know F35 isn't rdy for primetime. Rumbles of EU designing their own now......

 

[DrainBamage]

Rumbles of EU designing their own now......

Actually there are rumors of additional countries jumping on the F-35 program including Germany, Poland, and Finland.

Sure you spent years babbling about how all the international partners would drop out, but you've shown an amazing ability to stomach looking foolish over and over.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Rumbles of EU designing their own now......

Actually there are rumors of additional countries jumping on the F-35 program including Germany and Poland.

Sure you spent years babbling about how all the international partners would drop out, but you've shown an amazing ability to stomach looking foolish over and over.

Love how the fire team has me on alert ......getting bad isn't it.....they all have to be rebuilt....now upengined because they are getting fatter and slower ........

 

[mudwhistle]

Oops. That seems to be the general opinion.
The Royal navy are going to be serious miffed. Question is, what would possess the British MOD to but a possibly dodgy bit of kit?

PS - terrific avatar. The F4 has a rugged charm that few aircraft can match.

An F4 is Phantom......which looks like this...

I think his avatar is an F15.

 

[mudwhistle]

Military procurement bureaucrats listened to generals who wanted too much for too little. They wanted a stealth version of the Osprey that could do the VTOL stuff while flying at Mach+ speeds carrying a huge variety of armaments and payloads.

I think you mean the Harrier (AV8B), not the Osprey (OV-22).

And I for one have long recognized that the first run of just about any military equipment does not perform exactly as advertised. The M-16 was not reliable until the A1, the Arleigh Burke class destroyers were not really world class until the last of the first gens were launched, and the F-18 was originally rejected by the Navy, only being accepted after many years of upgrades and modifications.

And yes, a replacement for the Harrier is badly needed. An upgrade of the Vietnam era Harrier, even the youngest Marine Harrier II is over a decade old, and it is time to start seriously working on their replacement.

And yes, it is still needed. For a Marine Amphibious Force, this is often their only air to air defense when they are separated from a Carrier Battle Group.

I have worked with a great many pieces of equipment in the military over the years, and it had always gone through many modifications, so that it barely resembled the original models. And if somebody has a good eye, they can spot them.

That is a First Generation PATRIOT Missile launcher, a piece of equipment I am very familiar with. That one happens to be a the museum at the White Sands Missile Range (where I have inspected it in detail).

And there is a PAC III 3rd generation launcher. I can spot at least 7 differences in a 1 second glance to tell one from the other. Could the original shoot down an inbound ballistic missile? No. Could the original be rapidly emplaced with the entire Battery ready to fight in less then an hour? No. Was it able to do it's original job and shoot down enemy aircraft within 2 hours? Yes.

In short, I do not see this as a boondoggle. I simply see it as a program that is badly needed, to replace equipment that is dangerously close to the end of it's lifespan.

They have been working on a Harrier replacement....the F35

 

[mudwhistle]

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-USAF-need-the-F-35-when-the-F-22-has-not-been-used-in-combat

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Pentagon?s big budget F-35 fighter ?can?t turn, can?t climb, can?t run? | The Great Debate

Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

Is there a serious problem, or just the press hunting for a story?

Nothing but a brick waiting to crash. A10 should really be in production. The Older Russian jets can out fly the New AF toy.

 

[DrainBamage]

.they all have to be rebuilt....now upengined because they are getting fatter and slower ........

Classic example, you've been yammering about how they are too slow to be effective forever, yet there they are with a 20-1 kill ratio. Turns out you were the clueless one eh?

 

[DrainBamage]

Nothing but a brick waiting to crash.The Older Russian jets can out fly the New AF toy.

Yeah 90,000 flight hours on a single engine plane without a single crash, it has proven to be the opposite of what you say, it's the plane that refuses to crash.

You make a lot of sense, dumbass.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Pentagon?s big budget F-35 fighter ?can?t turn, can?t climb, can?t run? | The Great Debate

Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

Is there a serious problem, or just the press hunting for a story?

Nothing but a brick waiting to crash. A10 should really be in production. The Older Russian jets can out fly the New AF toy.

Let's take a look.

The Production F-35A matches the F-16 in a turn. The BS test that is used was against the AF-2 version limited to 6.5Gs. The Production A is limited at 9+Gs. There is no fighter other than F-22 that can out turn the F-16 including the SU-35 so that means that the F-35A can dogfight just fine. BS Debunked.

IT only goes Mach 1.6. So what. It does it with a full load of Amraams and can still out distance any other fighter short of the F-22. Meanwhile, your Russian and Chinese stuff will have to start jettisoning it's payload (including missiles) to get anywhere near the loaded F-35A. You forget, those numbers for the other fighters are done clean; No Droptanks, no bombs, no missiles and just enough gas for it to make that dash and then quickly find a tanker of an air field. Your BS is debunked.

And it's still not able to be picked up with radar if it's more than about 25 miles. It's been slinging missiles, guiding in other birds missiles for the last 70 miles or so before you can have any hopes of doing a weapons lockon and launch. You think that it will have to fly the other guys advantages. Sorry, doesn't work that way. It gets first shots (notice plural) first look and you have to play by the F-35A rules. You honestly believe our Pilots are complete idiots.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Two votes of no confidence in F-35 being anywhere near rdy or capable in near future.

Only someone with your bizarre dogmatic criticism of the plane would assume it's about capability of the F-35.

Then again you've come up so with much laughable stuff that was easily disproven your credibility around here is zero.

Seems like just yesterday they were yapping we gotta retire all these so we can buy enough F35 as soon as possible. Ah the good ol days.

It still holds for the F-35A. Some of the F-15/16 C and D models date back to the 70s. I remember why they took the F-4 out of service. That bird once had a 12 G Air Frame but ended up with a 6G due to age. The older 15/16s are in the same boat. Do we build a new 15 at 110 mil each, do we build a new F-16 at 80 Mil or do we spend 85 mil for the F-35A. It's economics 101.

Same goes for the A-10. There are 171 of them that need to have it's wings replaced (the plants that made them are building other things), the Avionics isn't up to snuff. Even in Syria, the A-10 rarely drops below 10K feet due to manpads that ISIS and other might have. If you can't go below that altitude then it's no better than 8 or 9 different Birds for CAS. Plus, you are limited to about 150 mile radius. They already upgraded the rest of the 286 A-10s. So we have just over 100 that are ready to go as long as the bad guys doesn't have any ground to air weapons. NO pilot in the right mind likes to play to a stacked deck like you think the A-10 should. We can buy more birds but it takes years and millions to get that pilot where he can barely find his way in and out of battle. Goering made the same mistake.

 

[DrainBamage]

Here is the "can't turn can't climb" F-35 putting on an impressive display at the Paris Air Show yesterday:

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I saw something that Lockheed claimed. The deceleration of that bird is phenomenal along with the acceleration. The F-35A is not that slick of an airframe. When it pops out his air breaks, he can slow down more quickly than any other Fighter today. And he has a better than a 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio when fully loaded with internal weapons which is better than even the F-16 or SU-35. Where he might not be better in a turn, his vertical is almost magical. It's like the Mig-21 V F-4E where the F-4 would always force the Mig-21 into a vertical fight where the F-4 had the advantage. A turn and burn fight only happens if the other pilot allows it.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If you watch the clip closely, you will see some pretty serious Angle of Attacks. He can continue forward, raise the nose to a ridiculous degree and continue to track you without going out of control. He can slow way down, have a high AOA and then put the burners on faster than any bird I have ever seen or even heard of. He can quickly slow down, make a tight turn and the accelerate faster than even a F-22 up to his normal fighting speed. Like one of the pilots at Red Flag said, we just had to learn how to fly it.

 

[DrainBamage]

Apparently this is a plane flying 3i software, so limited to 7.5gs yet still dancing around. Maybe we can get one more "can't turn can't climb" chant from the resident dumbass.

Block 3F later this year = 9gs limit.