Experts Say: Torture Yields Little Reliable Information.

[rOckNrOllsCar11]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20071019/sc_livescience/torturehasalonghistoryofnotworking


Another example of G.Ws' hypocrisy. This is a man who claims to have "convictions" in his religious beliefs yet fails to connect the fact that those individuals that are involved in Jihad do also. To the obvious extremes of suicide bombing for their beliefs. What the hell is torture going to accomplish besides spreading more disdain and distrust toward American soldiers and citizens? In fact, it's been proven that since our illegial invasion of Iraq, terrorist have found it easier to recruit.

 

[AllieBaba]

Please cite how our invasion of Iran was illegal?

I wont' wait, because it's rhetoric and has no basis in fact.

Personally, I don't care if they get reliable information when they torture those pigs. I don't see our limited use of coercion as one of the bigger issues of the day. We have laws protecting our people from it, who cares about terrorists?

Not me.

 

[Shogun]

yea.. just like there was a time when Germans asked who cared about a bunch of fucking jews, right?

 

[AllieBaba]

Hardly. They weren't trying to get information from the Jews, nor were they trying to prevent the Jews from attacking and killing their women and children.

Also, the Jews were citizens, and should have been protected by their government. Thus they were illegally incarcerated and oppressed.

Big difference between gathering up families and killing them, and questioning prisoners of war who are foreigners suspected of plotting to kill innocents. It's a shame you can't see that, but I've no doubt you can't. It's because you don't believe in innocents. You think everyone is equally horrible, and if terrorists are bad, then little children are, too. Conversely, you think if children should be nurtured and protected, so should the people who want to violate and kill them.

More power to you. You're lucky you live in a country where I can't trot over to your house in the middle of the night, drag you out of bed, dig a ditch and drop you into it.

But you don't, so you can post all the pro-terrorist drivel you like, without fear of annihilation.

 

[Shogun]

no, no.. They were just concerned with jews taking over their nations wealth, opportunity, and resources. of COURSE we don't see anything like that in America today!

But, thankfully, your christian testimony is like a clarion call to those looking to know what that whole forgiveness thing is about... tell me, Who would Jesus torture, allie? Who, exactly, does the dogma on your sleeve say is ok to disregard as humans? I don't think they are canaanites so you might have to take a minute to answer that.


Half the fucking people at guananamo bay were merely picked up and tossed in jail. "enemy combatant" is a pretty broad fucking category, isnt it?

It's not so different when you want to ignore the Geneva Convention for the sake of feeling OK about torture, eh? What else can you rationalize for the sake of nationalism? WATER BOARDING? I hear jesus was a big fan of that kind of shit.


It's a shame that your concept of "innocent" depends on where YOU happen to be standing.

Indeed, YOU too are lucky that you can hide among the status quo instead of facing the retribution of your selective set of standards.

 

[jillian]

Please cite how our invasion of Iran was illegal?

I think you mean Iraq. Your freudian slip is showing.

I wont' wait, because it's rhetoric and has no basis in fact.

Personally, I don't care if they get reliable information when they torture those pigs. I don't see our limited use of coercion as one of the bigger issues of the day. We have laws protecting our people from it, who cares about terrorists?

Not me.

Pigs? So you want us to be no better than the "bad guys", huh?

Cool...

 

[AllieBaba]

I think you mean Iraq. Your freudian slip is showing.



Pigs? So you want us to be no better than the "bad guys", huh?

Cool...

We are infinitely better than the bad guys. It shows how deluded you are that you don't see it.

 

[AllieBaba]

no, no.. They were just concerned with jews taking over their nations wealth, opportunity, and resources. of COURSE we don't see anything like that in America today!

But, thankfully, your christian testimony is like a clarion call to those looking to know what that whole forgiveness thing is about... tell me, Who would Jesus torture, allie? Who, exactly, does the dogma on your sleeve say is ok to disregard as humans? I don't think they are canaanites so you might have to take a minute to answer that.


Half the fucking people at guananamo bay were merely picked up and tossed in jail. "enemy combatant" is a pretty broad fucking category, isnt it?

It's not so different when you want to ignore the Geneva Convention for the sake of feeling OK about torture, eh? What else can you rationalize for the sake of nationalism? WATER BOARDING? I hear jesus was a big fan of that kind of shit.


It's a shame that your concept of "innocent" depends on where YOU happen to be standing.

Indeed, YOU too are lucky that you can hide among the status quo instead of facing the retribution of your selective set of standards.

Jesus wouldn't torture anybody. But his testimony was for individuals, not governments. He told people to support their government. He did nothing to challenge the government.

Which POWs at Gitmo were just picked in and thrown in? Please show numbers and names. I'm fairly certain it isn't half.

And I don't care what the Nazi MOTIVE was for detaining and killing the Jews. The point is, the action was illegal because as citizens, those people should have been protected. How you can compare that event with the detaining of actual prisoners of war is beyond me. It's pretty much the difference between a free society and a dictatorship and you don't get it. Most libs don't. Which is scary, because for all their carping about freedoms, they provide dictatorships and despots all the ammo they need to wipe us out.

 

[Shogun]

We are infinitely better than the bad guys. It shows how deluded you are that you don't see it.

Yea Jillian!

Just like the MASTER RACE was SUPERIOR too!


Oh, the irony of her own words... Again, rich if it weren't so sad.

 

[Shogun]

Jesus wouldn't torture anybody. But his testimony was for individuals, not governments. He told people to support their government. He did nothing to challenge the government.

Which POWs at Gitmo were just picked in and thrown in? Please show numbers and names. I'm fairly certain it isn't half.

And I don't care what the Nazi MOTIVE was for detaining and killing the Jews. The point is, the action was illegal because as citizens, those people should have been protected. How you can compare that event with the detaining of actual prisoners of war is beyond me. It's pretty much the difference between a free society and a dictatorship and you don't get it. Most libs don't. Which is scary, because for all their carping about freedoms, they provide dictatorships and despots all the ammo they need to wipe us out.

ohhhh OK.. so he didn't have a problem, exactly, with blaming unto Ceasar that which Ceasar is allowed to do, eh? GOTCHA. So, then Nazi Christians were STILL GOOD CHRISTIANS TOO! Shwewwww... I thought you might have been facing a crack in your own dogma!

So, NOW you are in the business of declaring the respoonsibilities for foreign governments now? yea... THATS probably not filtered through your ethnocentrism... nope. CLEARLY the hisotry of governments show a distinct pattern of being concerned over the welfare of the common man! I daresay, we SURE DONT see examples where a section of the population is marginalized into not counting the same as the SUPERIOR crowd, eh? The NAZI final solution wasnt any more ILLEGAL in Germany than slavery was in the US. In case you didn't remember, knuckle lips, saving the jewes wasn't why we entered WW2 in the first place.. So, spare me the lecture on the legality of torture in a culture that WANTS SO BAD to justify it's own behaviour.


I'm sure most intelligent things ARE beyond you, Allie..

 

[steeliniraq]

UMMMM exactly how do we torture terrorists again? And for that matter what countries Army do these fighters fight for? What does their uniform look like? And when captured under what war bill are they protected? Also have the 4 American Soldiers that have been captured been tortured or have they been treated with respect?

 

[maineman]

one can only wonder why John McCain...the only US Senator to actually have BEEN tortured by the enemy...is so adamantly against any form of torture for our enemies in this war?

I would suggest that is because he knows that however we treat our prisoners in THIS war will become acceptable for any and all future enemies to use against our troops in the future.... his opposition to torture is based upon his concern for OUR troops.

But then, the chickenshit chickenhawk neocons in the republican party don't REALLY give a FUCK about the troops. They'll never be one.

 

[Alpha1]

one can only wonder why John McCain...the only US Senator to actually have BEEN tortured by the enemy...is so adamantly against any form of torture for our enemies in this war?

I would suggest that is because he knows that however we treat our prisoners in THIS war will become acceptable for any and all future enemies to use against our troops in the future.... his opposition to torture is based upon his concern for OUR troops.

But then, the chickenshit chickenhawk neocons in the republican party don't REALLY give a FUCK about the troops. They'll never be one.

That would be just peachy keen if it were true....EVERY ENEMY in the past has tortured their captives...every one, and THIS enemy don't give a shit how you treat their captives....they'll cut your freekin' head off with dull knife while you try to scream and pray for a quick end ....they are the true evil animals ... they even make movies for you so you get the idea...they execute captives 90% of the time, without blinking an eye....while the US supplies our prisoners a Koran, culturally correct food, medical care, and a fuckin' volley ball to entertain themselves....only the truely simpleminded believe they will treat us as humanely as we treat them....you lie to yourselves so you can cling to a fantasy....

 

[maineman]

That would be just peachy keen if it were true....EVERY ENEMY in the past has tortured their captives...every one, and THIS enemy don't give a shit how you treat their captives....they'll cut your freekin' head off with dull knife while you try to scream and pray for a quick end ....they are the true evil animals ... they even make movies for you so you get the idea...they execute captives 90% of the time, without blinking an eye....while the US supplies our prisoners a Koran, culturally correct food, medical care, and a fuckin' volley ball to entertain themselves....only the truely simpleminded believe they will treat us as humanely as we treat them....you lie to yourselves so you can cling to a fantasy....

so John McCain....decorated Vietnam vet and POW...is full of shit and ALPHA1, the anonymous internet poster, knows better?

 

[Alpha1]

so John McCain....decorated Vietnam vet and POW...is full of shit and ALPHA1, the anonymous internet poster, knows better?

So says you ? Try again..http://tinyurl.com/2jtq9s

 

[maineman]

So says you ? Try again..http://tinyurl.com/2jtq9s

your link does not contradict my assertion that John McCain is against torturing our enemies. try again.

 

[DeadCanDance]

UMMMM exactly how do we torture terrorists again?

Waterboarding and induced hypothermia. We prosecuted japanese after world war two for war crimes because they waterboarded prisoners. Induced hypothermia was a Nazi torture technique used on polish and jewish detainees.

And for that matter what countries Army do these fighters fight for? What does their uniform look like? And when captured under what war bill are they protected?

Under US Law, and the International Ban on Cruel, Inhumane, and Degrading Treaty signed by President Ronald Reagan in the 1980s.

Also have the 4 American Soldiers that have been captured been tortured or have they been treated with respect?

Pointing to the bad behaviour of others does not excuse illegal and inappropriate behaviour on our part.

Torture is illegal, immoral, and does not result in reliable intelligence.

 

[jillian]

That would be just peachy keen if it were true....EVERY ENEMY in the past has tortured their captives...every one

That's a lie... not US. That's what the Geneva Convention is for. Did you bother reading your own link?

Sen. John McCain is leading the charge against so-called "torture" techniques allegedly used by U.S. interrogators, insisting that practices like sleep deprivation and withholding medical attention are not only brutal - they simply don't work to persuade terrorist suspects to give accurate information

Even the propagandists at Newsmax got it right that McCain was leading the charge against torture. Of course, they distort it by saying "so-called 'torture' techniques" and make it sound like we don't know it's been done in Iraq and at Gitmo, but then again, can't expect more from Newsmax.

It doesn't matter what THEY do... what matters is what WE do. Because if there's no difference, then what's the point in fighting them... they win.

 

[Alpha1]

your link does not contradict my assertion that John McCain is against torturing our enemies. try again.

I just pointed out the even McCain admitted that torture worked on him....
Only the simpleminded would claim it never works...and probably works more often than not....
Of course he his against the practice...we all are, I presume....

but don't piss on my back and tell me its raining....torture has been ALWAYS used by our enemies....in every war since the beginning of time....

And to imagine that if we treat prisoners in a humane way, our enemy will do the same is just a refusal to face reality....especially with the enemy we face today....

 

[DeadCanDance]

I just pointed out the even McCain admitted that torture worked on him....
Only the simpleminded would claim it never works...and probably works more often than not....
Of course he his against the practice...we all are, I presume....

but don't piss on my back and tell me its raining....torture has been ALWAYS used by our enemies....in every war since the beginning of time....

And to imagine that if we treat prisoners in a humane way, our enemy will do the same is just a refusal to face reality....especially with the enemy we face today....

Your newsmax article says the information McCain gave to the vietnamese was of no real use to them.

Which is exactly what I said: torture does produce reliable or valuable intelligence.