Exit polls show sharp divide among Democrats

[Dogger]

I prefer my bushes furry and a little wet............

That could mean Jenna . . .

 

[midcan5]

Yikes, racism doesn't exist. Jeez and all the comments one hears and reads even on this site are what exactly? I defy anyone to prove this one who lives in the real world.

Dyed in the wool socialist, I guess one could be called something worse but I doubt the poster even knows what socialism is, it is only a stick for some choir boys to use when their church is attacked.

 

[Gunny]

Yikes, racism doesn't exist. Jeez and all the comments one hears and reads even on this site are what exactly? I defy anyone to prove this one who lives in the real world.

Dyed in the wool socialist, I guess one could be called something worse but I doubt the poster even knows what socialism is, it is only a stick for some choir boys to use when their church is attacked.

I did not say racism doesn't exist. Its existence however does not give you or any other Obama supporters to use it as an excuse to deflect on each and every question that force you to see something you don't want to.

Your doubts would be incorrect and every ideal I've seen you support on this board has been either socialist-leaning and out and out socialist.

But true, you are not a dictionary definition socialist by definition because you and I and everybody else knows true socialism could never exist. It fails to take into account the nature of Man.

Oh, and you can say identify me by my userID when responding to me. Hell, you could even use the quote function.

 

[Ravi]

Yikes, racism doesn't exist. Jeez and all the comments one hears and reads even on this site are what exactly? I defy anyone to prove this one who lives in the real world.

Dyed in the wool socialist, I guess one could be called something worse but I doubt the poster even knows what socialism is, it is only a stick for some choir boys to use when their church is attacked.

Sure racism exists but painting Clinton and/or her supporters as racist is absurd. And using as evidence comments posted on someone's blog is downright retarded.

 

[Care4all]

There is a great deal of racism among older voters. The old images die hard. I have heard it from people who I would have thought had grown past it. It is the one thing that may be the hardest thing for Obama to overcome.

'How Clinton Courted Racists in Pennsylvania'

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff04252008.html

DAVE LINDORFF is a Philadelphia-based journalist. His latest book is “The Case for Impeachment” (St. Martin’s Press, 2006 and now available in paperback edition). His work is available at www.thiscantbehappening.net

Midcan...yur buying in to a bunch of garbage imo and EXACTLY what the Republicans want...

There are people like me who have not made up their mind yet, but am leaning towards believing with all of my brains that Hillary would be a stronger president at this time than Obama, but BOTH being stronger than McCain and what I want in a President.

So, yes, I am an older woman I SUPPOSE ????

But me not jumping on the Obama bandwagon has nothing at all to do with race and am actually INSULTED that you and the press is trying to make it out to be....AND THERE ARE alot of people like me midcan....I think Hillary is the better candidate, period....just as you think that Obama is the better candidate.

And if you say it is white folk that are being racial by not being Obama "followers" then I would suppose you would have to say the whole black vote going towards Obama would make THAT VOTE a RACIAL motivated vote also, right? So, is that what you think? That people like me can NOT THINK on their own and choose who they would like to be the next president?

You are shutting a good number, nearing half the Democratic country out of a choice by telling hillary to get out of the race right now....even if obama does win, which in my opinion he will....what's the hurry? Why not let the primaries finish instead of INSISTING that these other state's votes SHOULD NOT COUNT and Hillary should just quit?

To me, the Obama side of the party is KILLING the party by their continual, "she should quit crap"....She should NOT QUIT, all the votes SHOULD COUNT in any democracy and to supporting shutting the vote down, is something I would have never guessed for you and desh and tiana and others would have supported a year ago which is quite surprising....and for the LIFE OF ME, it seems as though the enmity occuring is exactly what the republicans have actually enticed and you all bought in to it!

The rules in PLACE for this game were in place prior to the election...delegates, and super delegates to choose as they wish...any manner that they wish...PERIOD. Those are and were the rules and NEITHER side, including obama, has enough delegates to win the nomination and ONLY super delegates could give the win to either.

Yes, it would be horrible if super delegates did not go with their stat or the popular vote or what ever...

But you know what, THOSE were the rules before the contest began...that the super delegate for ANY REASON at all, can choose who they believe will be the better president, taking all of what is imprtant to them in to consideration, but no SET RULES....which now it appears the Obama Side is trying to intimidate the super delegates in to voting how they think they should....well, that's changing the rules, MIDSTREAM...

Just as hillary implying the popular vote counted in florida and michigan to give her more in the popular vote...the popular vote does not count to win this primary election, the popular vote is not in the rules...to win the nomination but the delegates allocated, both from the primaries and caucuses and the superdelegates is what determines the nomination winner?

both sides want to win at all costs, NOT just one side....I hate it all honestly...but I am not going to force Hillary to just cave in and not give it her all to try to win....just because it would be "easier" on Obama...what is he a child that needs some sort of "protection" from you all?

I don't think Obama is the better candidate or has a better chance of winning the presidency than hillary because he is not good at winning primaries, only caucuses are his main strength...

young people that go to the party like atmosphere of the caucuses MAY NOT make it to the polls and vote in the general election is what it tells me.

they ARE NOT a sure vote, the older people ARE a sure vote....

the youth overpower the caucuses, old people for the most part do not participate in caucuses, but they DO VOTE in the election, is what I heard on the 24/7....how does this all come in to play? To me, it leans towards Hillary REALLY being the stronger candidate in the presidential election.

I like alot of Obama's and Hillary's ideas and plans, none of McCains but I still think at this point of the game, Hillary has a better shot in the general...maybe not now that the entire black community has made the clintons to be Satan himself though....clintons killed vince foster CRAP is now coming from democrats and it sickens me to see this happen....or even the voters that say they would vote for mccain before obama that are supposedly democratic party members....that's utter nonsense...no way would another republican, in my opinion, be good for any of us in America after what we have been through the last 8 years! hahahaha, but of course, that is just my personal, well thought out, opinion!

Care

 

[Ravi]

Nicely said, Care. All the calls for Hillary to quit by Obama supporters frankly make it seem as if Obama is weak in the eyes of his supporters.

 

[midcan5]

Midcan...yur buying in to a bunch of garbage imo and EXACTLY what the Republicans want...

There are people like me who have not made up their mind yet, but am leaning towards believing with all of my brains that Hillary would be a stronger president at this time than Obama, but BOTH being stronger than McCain and what I want in a President.

Hi Care, you know I luv you and am married to one of those older women who voted for Hillary not because of race, but because it would be great if a woman made it that far in her lifetime and because she is so well qualified. But I have heard racist comments with my own ears and the racial element exists among many people, some of whom hardly face it. I think the republicans would like Hillary as the opponent as I think they will play the weak woman theme and the inexperienced leader theme and bring up every faux pas she ever made. Either Hillary or Obama will make me happy, I was trying more to reference the reality I see.

 

[Ravi]

Hi Care, you know I luv you and am married to one of those older women who voted for Hillary not because of race, but because it would be great if a woman made it that far in her lifetime and because she is so well qualified. But I have heard racist comments with my own ears and the racial element exists among many people, some of whom hardly face it. I think the republicans would like Hillary as the opponent as I think they will play the weak woman theme and the inexperienced leader theme and bring up every faux pas she ever made. Either Hillary or Obama will make me happy, I was trying more to reference the reality I see.

Does your wife know you think she's sexist and that her mind is clouded with it?

Jeebus.

fwiw, you are coming off as both racist and sexist.

Also, I'm pretty sure republicans playing the weak woman theme won't hurt Hillary in the least. Obama's the one that will get the inexperience bit against him. Try to quit reminding people, okay?

 

[Ravi]

What a hoot. Hillary gets all the redneck votes.

This thread makes me wonder if you might be right about the division. Though I still think in real life most people aren't like Midcan.

 

[jillian]

This thread makes me wonder if you might be right about the division. Though I still think in real life most people aren't like Midcan.

I can tell you from what I've heard, there's a huge racial component to people who will refuse to vote for Obama if Hillary loses the nod (which is likely). I think that's sad, but I thikn it's reality.

And I think this belonged to Hillary until Oprah did her rallys. That's not to say obama *can't* win. I just think that if he thinks Hillary was hard on him, he ain't seen nothing yet. She's a walk in the park compared to what the Rovian GOP spin machine will do to him. (Though he's going to get his first taste of it in North Carolina).

 

[jreeves]

The Republicans aren't exactly united, either.



Isn't that cute. She hasn't been paying attention. A real chip off the old block.

Talking about paying attention....Lmao

Barack Obama angered fellow Democrats in the Illinois Senate when he voted to strip millions of dollars from a child welfare office on Chicago's West Side. But Obama had a ready explanation: He goofed.

"I was not aware that I had voted no," he said that day in June 2002, asking that the record be changed to reflect that he "intended to vote yes."

That was not the only misfire for the former civil rights attorney first elected to the state Senate in 1996. During his eight years in state office, Obama cast more than 4,000 votes. Of those, according to transcripts of the proceedings in Springfield, he hit the wrong button at least six times.
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamavotes24jan24,0,713086.story

 

[Ravi]

I can tell you from what I've heard, there's a huge racial component to people who will refuse to vote for Obama if Hillary loses the nod (which is likely). I think that's sad, but I thikn it's reality.

And I think this belonged to Hillary until Oprah did her rallys. That's not to say obama *can't* win. I just think that if he thinks Hillary was hard on him, he ain't seen nothing yet. She's a walk in the park compared to what the Rovian GOP spin machine will do to him. (Though he's going to get his first taste of it in North Carolina).

I'll take your word for it. I don't know anyone that fits that description.

 

[jillian]

I'll take your word for it. I don't know anyone that fits that description.

I'm guessing you're younger than I am and don't know as many people who aren't party-loyal.

I have a lot of lawyer friends who will absolutely vote for Obama if he wins. I also have a lot of friends who could go either way. Also, the more working class people are, at least the white folk, the less likely they are to vote for Obama. That's not an insult. It's just a demographic fact.

I think you underestimate what effect Rev Wright had and will continue to have. Does that mean Obama loses? No. It does mean he isn't going to have an easy time.

He'd also better learn to fight back against the republican machine if he's the nominee. John Kerry found out what happens when you don't fight back.

 

[Gunny]

Hi Care, you know I luv you and am married to one of those older women who voted for Hillary not because of race, but because it would be great if a woman made it that far in her lifetime and because she is so well qualified. But I have heard racist comments with my own ears and the racial element exists among many people, some of whom hardly face it. I think the republicans would like Hillary as the opponent as I think they will play the weak woman theme and the inexperienced leader theme and bring up every faux pas she ever made. Either Hillary or Obama will make me happy, I was trying more to reference the reality I see.

Get your labels straight. As far as the issue goes on THIS board, there are CONSERVATIVES -- or so we are called -- not necessarily Republicans -- I for one am not -- who take issue with Obama.

Second, how long are you going to continue to perpetuate your little myth that the right wants Hillary because the right believes she is more beatable than Obama.

The "reality" is, Clinton would be a stronger candidate to run against McCain because she can steal some his voters. Votes that will otherwise go to McCain.

This doesn't have a damned thing to do with being a woman ro being black and to anyone that it DOES matter I suggest you burn your voters registration card because you are too screwed up for me. It has to do with being President of the United States and who is the best person for that job.

So stop flapping your jaws about racism and what you think "Republicans" want and start flapping your little meatbeaters on the keyboard and tell us all just what it is that makes Obama more qualified to be President?

That half-ass one you started with about what you assume Republicans are going to do to Hillary doesn't wash. She'll face no worse than Obama. Whether or not you like it, he is going to be picked apart with a microscope just as viciously as y'all have already started working McCain over with.

And from MY point of view, Hillary can handle the criticism FAR better than Obama. He screws up just about every time he opens his mouth and ends up having to explain "what he actually meant."

 

[Gunny]

I'm guessing you're younger than I am and don't know as many people who aren't party-loyal.

I have a lot of lawyer friends who will absolutely vote for Obama if he wins. I also have a lot of friends who could go either way. Also, the more working class people are, at least the white folk, the less likely they are to vote for Obama. That's not an insult. It's just a demographic fact.

I think you underestimate what effect Rev Wright had and will continue to have. Does that mean Obama loses? No. It does mean he isn't going to have an easy time.

He'd also better learn to fight back against the republican machine if he's the nominee. John Kerry found out what happens when you don't fight back.

I disagree. As I stated above, I actually think she can take on the GOP better than he can. His lack of experience has already been proven.

It isn't just Wright; although, Wright IS an issue and for good reason. How about the fact that conservatives don't hold the same ideals as liberals? That alone, without any outside circumstances, will make people not vote for him.

John Kerry didn't lose because he didn't fight the "Republican machine." John Kerry lost because he was John Kerry. He screwed himself.

If it comes down to who gets the moderate vote, as is the case most elections, Hillary, IMO is head and shoulders above Obama. She can take votes from McCain. I don't think Obama can because he is too far left.

IF Hillary gets the nod, and she runs against McCain, I'll listen. With Obama, I'm voting against him, I don't care if the GOP trots Bob Dole back on stage.

 

[Care4all]

I'm guessing you're younger than I am and don't know as many people who aren't party-loyal.

I have a lot of lawyer friends who will absolutely vote for Obama if he wins. I also have a lot of friends who could go either way. Also, the more working class people are, at least the white folk, the less likely they are to vote for Obama. That's not an insult. It's just a demographic fact.

I think you underestimate what effect Rev Wright had and will continue to have. Does that mean Obama loses? No. It does mean he isn't going to have an easy time.

He'd also better learn to fight back against the republican machine if he's the nominee. John Kerry found out what happens when you don't fight back.

I think you are mistaken Jillian, regarding reverend wright's speech....(at least in my little circle ) I know Hillary tried to get it in the news along with many, many, many republicans and the news media in general...however, every single person that I have heard complain about the rev wright in my every day life are Republicans on political boards...not a one complaining about wright are the every day Hillary supporters or the undecided....they are always republicans or republicans/independents that are temporarily "playing like" they are Democrats for the Primary....

The rev Wright's comments mean nothing to me when it comes to making a decision to support Hillary or Obama.... Although I do not live in the south now, I was alive before the civil rights bill passed...and I witnessed prejudices that occurred in restaurants and on busses LONG after it passed...In fact, when I recently lived in Boston, at a restaurant there, I witnessed a lovely family of black people not get served by the waitress or the owners...my parents and husband and I walked out when we got served and they had not gotten served even though there for an hour before us...

I saw a bus driver at the parking lot a mile or two away from the ferry to go over to martha's vinyard pull away from a black couple with a suitcase that were heading over there on vacation just like us....all of the white people on the bus did shout and scream and my 6 foot 3 husband stood up right behind the bus driver shouting at him to stop for this couple, so he finally did and they had to run 150 yards to catch up with the bus....(then my husband and I apologized to this couple and befriended them on the bus ride and ferry and told them that NOT ALL OF US WHITE FOLK are like the jerk of a busdriver...)

These two instances were in the 2001 or 2000.....not too long ago.

I know all about racism, it is still alive and well....FROM BOTH races...there is alot of racism going on on the Obama side also with all blacks basically voting for Obama you could say....no? I don't necessary think this is what is happening though....I think that there are alot of professional women, like myself, that have gone through hell to climb the ladder compared to the average man that I have worked with....I have been a victim of sexual harrasment and harrassment in general during my early career, but never made any kind of stink about it with authorities or anything, just that it was alive and well at one time.........it is soooooooooo much better now but what I am trying to say is that I can relate to Hillary better than relate to the rock star status of obama....I haven't been to a rock concert in at least a decade and it just isn't me anymore....

*And I think that the Black vote supporting obama support him because they can relate to him better too...and Obama is sharp as a whip too!

None of me thinking that Hillary would be better as the nominee than Obama has anything to do with Obama really....let alone his race/skin color....???

Same with my parents, same with my husband....who also support Hillary at this point, still....

I just don't think it is as many democrats as you may think but more the repubs/ or independents... that have switched over....

Care

 

[jreeves]

I think you are mistaken Jillian, regarding reverend wright's speech....(at least in my little circle ) I know Hillary tried to get it in the news along with many, many, many republicans and the news media in general...however, every single person that I have heard complain about the rev wright in my every day life are Republicans on political boards...not a one complaining about wright are the every day Hillary supporters or the undecided....they are always republicans or republicans/independents that are temporarily "playing like" they are Democrats for the Primary....

The rev Wright's comments mean nothing to me when it comes to making a decision to support Hillary or Obama.... Although I do not live in the south now, I was alive before the civil rights bill passed...and I witnessed prejudices that occurred in restaurants and on busses LONG after it passed...In fact, when I recently lived in Boston, at a restaurant there, I witnessed a lovely family of black people not get served by the waitress or the owners...my parents and husband and I walked out when we got served and they had not gotten served even though there for an hour before us...

I saw a bus driver at the parking lot a mile or two away from the ferry to go over to martha's vinyard pull away from a black couple with a suitcase that were heading over there on vacation just like us....all of the white people on the bus did shout and scream and my 6 foot 3 husband stood up right behind the bus driver shouting at him to stop for this couple, so he finally did and they had to run 150 yards to catch up with the bus....(then my husband and I apologized to this couple and befriended them on the bus ride and ferry and told them that NOT ALL OF US WHITE FOLK are like the jerk of a busdriver...)

These two instances were in the 2001 or 2000.....not too long ago.

I know all about racism, it is still alive and well....FROM BOTH races...there is alot of racism going on on the Obama side also with all blacks basically voting for Obama you could say....no? I don't necessary think this is what is happening though....I think that there are alot of professional women, like myself, that have gone through hell to climb the ladder compared to the average man that I have worked with....I have been a victim of sexual harrasment and harrassment in general during my early career, but never made any kind of stink about it with authorities or anything, just that it was alive and well at one time.........it is soooooooooo much better now but what I am trying to say is that I can relate to Hillary better than relate to the rock star status of obama....I haven't been to a rock concert in at least a decade and it just isn't me anymore....

*And I think that the Black vote supporting obama support him because they can relate to him better too...and Obama is sharp as a whip too!

None of me thinking that Hillary would be better as the nominee than Obama has anything to do with Obama really....let alone his race/skin color....???

Same with my parents, same with my husband....who also support Hillary at this point, still....

I just don't think it is as many democrats as you may think but more the repubs/ or independents... that have switched over....

Care

Yeah only about 26% of Clinton supporters say they will jump ship for MCcain if Obama gets the nomination.
But its all the Republicans and Independents....

 

[Gunny]

I think you are mistaken Jillian, regarding reverend wright's speech....(at least in my little circle ) I know Hillary tried to get it in the news along with many, many, many republicans and the news media in general...however, every single person that I have heard complain about the rev wright in my every day life are Republicans on political boards...not a one complaining about wright are the every day Hillary supporters or the undecided....they are always republicans or republicans/independents that are temporarily "playing like" they are Democrats for the Primary....

The rev Wright's comments mean nothing to me when it comes to making a decision to support Hillary or Obama.... Although I do not live in the south now, I was alive before the civil rights bill passed...and I witnessed prejudices that occurred in restaurants and on busses LONG after it passed...In fact, when I recently lived in Boston, at a restaurant there, I witnessed a lovely family of black people not get served by the waitress or the owners...my parents and husband and I walked out when we got served and they had not gotten served even though there for an hour before us...

I saw a bus driver at the parking lot a mile or two away from the ferry to go over to martha's vinyard pull away from a black couple with a suitcase that were heading over there on vacation just like us....all of the white people on the bus did shout and scream and my 6 foot 3 husband stood up right behind the bus driver shouting at him to stop for this couple, so he finally did and they had to run 150 yards to catch up with the bus....(then my husband and I apologized to this couple and befriended them on the bus ride and ferry and told them that NOT ALL OF US WHITE FOLK are like the jerk of a busdriver...)

These two instances were in the 2001 or 2000.....not too long ago.

I know all about racism, it is still alive and well....FROM BOTH races...there is alot of racism going on on the Obama side also with all blacks basically voting for Obama you could say....no? I don't necessary think this is what is happening though....I think that there are alot of professional women, like myself, that have gone through hell to climb the ladder compared to the average man that I have worked with....I have been a victim of sexual harrasment and harrassment in general during my early career, but never made any kind of stink about it with authorities or anything, just that it was alive and well at one time.........it is soooooooooo much better now but what I am trying to say is that I can relate to Hillary better than relate to the rock star status of obama....I haven't been to a rock concert in at least a decade and it just isn't me anymore....

*And I think that the Black vote supporting obama support him because they can relate to him better too...and Obama is sharp as a whip too!

None of me thinking that Hillary would be better as the nominee than Obama has anything to do with Obama really....let alone his race/skin color....???

Same with my parents, same with my husband....who also support Hillary at this point, still....

I just don't think it is as many democrats as you may think but more the repubs/ or independents... that have switched over....

Care

Again, this issue is not about race. You're as guilty of trying to make it one as any KKK member. It's about who is best qualified to be President and anyone who allows either race or gender to make that decision for them is just flat-out pathetic.

 

[Gunny]

Yeah only about 26% of Clinton supporters say they will jump ship for MCcain if Obama gets the nomination.
But its all the Republicans and Independents....

Don't forget we're "playing at being Democrats ...."

Care sometimes forgets who she's talking to.

 

[Care4all]

Hi Care, you know I luv you and am married to one of those older women who voted for Hillary not because of race, but because it would be great if a woman made it that far in her lifetime and because she is so well qualified. But I have heard racist comments with my own ears and the racial element exists among many people, some of whom hardly face it. I think the republicans would like Hillary as the opponent as I think they will play the weak woman theme and the inexperienced leader theme and bring up every faux pas she ever made. Either Hillary or Obama will make me happy, I was trying more to reference the reality I see.

you know i luv you too midcan!

but i disagree....it is what the repubs have ''made you believe'' through their propaganda....they are not politically stupid you know? they do strategize as do the dems...

Hillary, imo, IS THE STRONGER candidate against mccain in the general....obama is the weaker candidate in the general....he may still win against mccain if he gets the nomination....but not after being put through a shredder....and i do not see him with the same energizer energy or will, as hillary has, to win.

his supporters have been calling for him to win by default for months now....insisting his one competitor quit...that's weak midcan...he refused to debate in nc....when this election is still close, acting as though the super delegates should go to him for the reason of ''just because''....which ain't good enough imo....

why not let all the states vote, where it still matters instead of insisting that she quit? why? i guess you all don't really believe in the democratic vote?

when the primaries are over, enough of the super delegates will be compelled to make up their minds and maybe, either obama or hillary will have enough total delegates to win the nomination so that it does not come down to the convention....God willing.....

but if it doesn't give either candidate enough delegates to win, then as the rules set in place dictate, it will come down to the convention...

this is a close race, both obama and hillary have given their all....neither should be forced to quit by the media or their opponents is how i see it....not yet, anyway....

bill clinton did not get enough delegates to win his democratic nomination until the month of June....what's the rush?

care