Evolution Is Not A Theory..........................

[Photonic]

No one "knows" what Dark Matter is or even if it exists. It is currently in the realm of cosmological theory. There is mathematical evidence that it exists but so far no empirical data to support its existence.

That isn't entirely true. SOMETHING exists, we haven't figured out what it is. Hence the "dark" phrasing.

The first person to provide evidence and infer the presence of dark matter was Swiss astrophysicist Fritz Zwicky, of the California Institute of Technology in 1933.[9] He applied the virial theorem to the Coma cluster of galaxies and obtained evidence of unseen mass. Zwicky estimated the cluster's total mass based on the motions of galaxies near its edge and compared that estimate to one based on the number of galaxies and total brightness of the cluster. He found that there was about 400 times more estimated mass than was visually observable. The gravity of the visible galaxies in the cluster would be far too small for such fast orbits, so something extra was required. This is known as the "missing mass problem". Based on these conclusions, Zwicky inferred that there must be some non-visible form of matter which would provide enough of the mass and gravity to hold the cluster together.
Much of the evidence for dark matter comes from the study of the motions of galaxies.[10] Many of these appear to be fairly uniform, so by the virial theorem the total kinetic energy should be half the total gravitational binding energy of the galaxies. Experimentally, however, the total kinetic energy is found to be much greater: in particular, assuming the gravitational mass is due to only the visible matter of the galaxy, stars far from the center of galaxies have much higher velocities than predicted by the virial theorem. Galactic rotation curves, which illustrate the velocity of rotation versus the distance from the galactic center, cannot be explained by only the visible matter. Assuming that the visible material makes up only a small part of the cluster is the most straightforward way of accounting for this. Galaxies show signs of being composed largely of a roughly spherically symmetric, centrally concentrated halo of dark matter with the visible matter concentrated in a disc at the center. Low surface brightness dwarf galaxies are important sources of information for studying dark matter, as they have an uncommonly low ratio of visible matter to dark matter, and have few bright stars at the center which would otherwise impair observations of the rotation curve of outlying stars.
Gravitational lensing observations of galaxy clusters allow direct estimates of the gravitational mass based on its effect on light from background galaxies, since large collections of matter (dark or otherwise) will gravitationally deflect light. In clusters such as Abell 1689, lensing observations confirm the presence of considerably more mass than is indicated by the clusters' light alone. In the Bullet Cluster, lensing observations show that much of the lensing mass is separated from the X-ray-emitting baryonic mass.

It's one of the well known weaker theories, for which there is currently no direct evidence, only observational.

Well known yes, observational, not so much. Its existence is inferred only through a mathematical construct to attempt to explain anomolous galactic motions that in themselves may not be accurate as there is so little observed motion to run the calcs with.

It's a close kin of Einsteins Cosmological constant in that regard I believe, though I have to admit it's been a LONG time since I was current on any of that!

It's not really, back in the 1500's it was a mathematical concept, now it is an observational one.

That's the only real difference though. It's no longer simply a mathematical concept however.

 

[Photonic]

No one "knows" what Dark Matter is or even if it exists. It is currently in the realm of cosmological theory. There is mathematical evidence that it exists but so far no empirical data to support its existence.

Total BS. Dark matter tests have been proven valid for almost 80 years.
It exists and comprises as much as 90% of everything.
You believe they just make these things up?

Then please show us the tests. The link below is the best science for non-scientists explanation of dark matter and energy. As can be seen there is little empirical evidence of it. Inference and mathematics are the realm of Dark Matter and Energy.


Dark matter - New World Encyclopedia

I will not dispute that.

We have plenty of observation about the effects, but no direct observation of the cause.

 

[Gadgeteer]

"We can ballpark" is the closest any fact about the observable world can ever be known. It is impossible ever to have certain knowledge. Any claim by anyone, on any basis, to have certain knowledge about any fact about the observable world, is automatically wrong.

There's a lot of circular reasoning (prejudice). We can date fossils because we know the age of the rocks.

...and we know the age of the rocks because of the date of the fossils!

 

[Gadgeteer]

Because as everybody knows, once we learn a thing, it's absolute, etched in stone, and we have never found information later that blasted a theory all to shit.

Morons.

Ironic.

Indeed. Talk about not getting it.

The very fact that information can be found later that has blasted a theory all to shit is why there is no such thing as absolutely certain knowledge. The claim to possess absolutely certain knowledge amounts to proof that the person making the claim actually possesses no significant knowledge whatever.

And yet you're absolutely certain that evolution is a fact.

Uh, huh.

 

[Gadgeteer]

Which version of science are we using to day?

The latest one.

Believers in dogmatic religion have a problem, it seems, with the inherent uncertainty in science. It's completely different from the formula of "this is absolutely so because Authority says it is" that underlies dogma. Science operates on a different principle: "we think this is so because we observe the following evidence that it is so, but it remains possible that we're wrong." It's not as emotionally satisfying to those who are used to pronouncements of Absolute Truth From On High.

Despite this uncertainty, the advantage of science is that there IS evidence behind its assertions, while there is often NO evidence behind the pronouncements of dogma. Because of this, the pronouncements of dogma, despite the greater certainty with which they are presented, are much less likely to be true.

And what if Evolution is a religion? It's based largely on faith, has fierce devotee's, and a large amount of evangelism and proselytizing.

...not to mention persecution and professional executions. Ever see the movie, "Expelled"?

 

[Gadgeteer]

Because believers in religion don't bother about the facts, or about learning anything new. They receive fixed and for-all-time answers from Absolute Authority, and never check those answers against observable reality.

That they have never changed their position is not a point in their favor.

That is an unfair and baseless charge. Many of us do look at facts, and more facts than most Evolutionists.

Has anyone answered my question about "how many mutations per year must occur to create Human DNA in only 4.5 billion years?"

The answer is literally "absurdity, to infinity and beyond".

(With apologies to Buzz...)

 

[Gadgeteer]

You obviously don't understand what is meant by "ignorant" on that thread. It's the same sort of thing as you are exhibiting here: a stubborn insistence, right in the face of mountains of proof, that one's clearly and obviously false beliefs are true. Not only did that video of Johnson not show that, but it COULDN'T show that as there was no proof offered to Johnson that he was wrong about the possibility of an island tipping over due to excess population. If that proof was shown to him, and THEN he continued to insist that it was a real danger, he would be showing ignorance of the Republican sort.

Or, I might add, of the creationist sort. They are quite similar.

Ahhhhh, so it's REPUBLICANS you're now condemning, calling "ignorant". Perhaps you have a bust of Marx or maybe even Stalin on your mantle?

Did it ever occur to you to ask what Conservatives, are CONSERVING? I highly recommend a website, "Wallbuilders.com", and a video he has, "America's Godly Heritage". If you take notes, you'll get writer's cramp in the first few seconds...

With respect, you're embodying a principle --- this is why there are "test questions" for political candidates. Find someone's position on two or three "litmus positions", and the rest of his/her positions are fully predictable.

...and I bet you have no idea why...

 

[Gadgeteer]

And the bible is bullshit. The Jews wrote it and they don't even believe it. It's myths, legends and old wives tales. One guy tells something to someone else and then person to person a thousand times and it's been embellished and exagerated by a factor of ten thousand.

Bold statement. Got any proof? The way _I_ heard it, there are tens of thousands of copies surviving time, the NT datable to within 50 years of events. There is no more documented, credible (in a court-admissible-sense) text in existence.

Years ago when I attended a management seminar and one of the exercises was a story told to one participant then that person would take another outside the room and tell the next until everyone had participated. When the last person repeated what had been told to him and copies of the original story passed out to all of us it was remarkable. The end did not even resemble the way it started. The entire point had been lost.

Problem is that we've found very early copies and pieces, and no significant changes have occurred.

You're making a lot of noise, shooting up the place, but the gun is filled with blanks...

 

[Gadgeteer]

That is your belief in the bible no one is downing you for it. But what are you going to do with bigots.

Can an Evolutionist be a bigot?

(Welll, DUH...)

 

[Gadgeteer]

I am a child of God. He created me in His image. The wife, however, evolved from monkeys.

So, what attracted you to her???

 

[Gadgeteer]

The things associated with believing in a god are the most ridiculous totally insane ideas I've ever read in my life.

Really? So the 19th Century idea of "Spontaneous Generation" was actually RIGHT???

Brainwashing at an early age by parents and or authority figures is definitely a requirement.

And that is not a wholly-backwards biased statement. Uh, huh.

As the Great Philosopher Confusion said,
"Man who stand on head, world is upside-down!"

 

[Photonic]

 

[Gadgeteer]

The boat's been discovered, last time I heard.
Not a problem; it's just a question of "resuscitation".
Heck yes. We know how to build thermoses to block "convection, conduction, and radiation" --- the three means of heat transfer.
I have no problem with this either; we're about to engage "force field technology".
Does your TV turn on by remote command?
What does a Human look like when the water is removed?
I went to Mexico in 1991 to see an eclipse.
It's just a question of moving molecules around; no big deal for someone who built the place in the first place.
Heck, we can do that now; "artificial insemination".
More "moving molecules around". NBD.
Simple physics; if a force is applied equal to and opposite of one's weight, he can walk on anything.
No worse than "multiplying food" --- molecule manipulation.
Again, moving molecules; fixing whatever system failed, and a pair of "jumper cables".

Hanging a man on a tree and bleeding him to death only to see him rise again?

More molecules.

Here's the $64,000 question --- why do you need to have things fit into what your are accustomed to understanding from your five senses?

Can your senses be lied to? Yup.

Take the last one --- can you successfully and credibly deny the guy was raised from the dead? Thousands of people saw Him. The records were not written long after the event, they were written while observers were still around; the records are credible, the testimony is credible --- and you "reserve the right to REJECT the story because it doesn't make sense to you".

With respect, where did you get the pedestal from which you assert the authority to believe things or not?

You know the problem is you are giving other people's opinions your own egocentric views. Things do not have to fit in my world according to my senses, but fit they have to into the puzzle. If I had something paranormal happen that does not fit with my world views, I would not dismiss it offhand. I also would never accept it offhand either. I think that is the difference between us.

The essence of a true scientist is being open minded to the possibilities.

...especially when a hyperdimensional Engineer fits the evidence better than "blind random accident" (selected by nature...)

Sigh...

 

[Gadgeteer]

Christianity is a stolen religion from countless other deities at the time, and rewritten to gain political control. Look how huge Rome got after it accepted Christianity with Constantine... Christianity is politically motivated, and reflects nothing of truth in and of itself. How does one write off the council of Nicea? Sorry. This is the only truth. Fundamentalists are listening to the word of a bunch of dudes in robes sitting in an ancient boardroom meeting and calling it fact, above that of observable evidence, and then trying to install their views on the rest of us. I hope religion dies someday and we come to our senses as a species.

So the whole book is a FRAUD, a FICTION, and was written by people who didn't see a guy who called Himself Jesus/God and didn't do any of the very weird things in the book.

That's a lot of faith, in the face of credible copies dating to within 50 years of those who said they saw them. If it had all been fraudulent, it would have to have been written long afterward, or it would have been denounced and destroyed.

...it hasn't been, 'cause it wasn't...

"Testimony of the witnesses"; credible.

 

[Gadgeteer]

I do not agree with this at all. I come from a religious culture that has produced many of the top scientific, business, and finance minds in the world. They believe in the same invisible man in the sky that christians do.

Actually, He's behind the sky, kinda like the "wormhole aliens" in DS9. They were parallel, we are serial. They existed outside of space-time.

Strikingly similar...

 

[Photonic]

The boat's been discovered, last time I heard.
Not a problem; it's just a question of "resuscitation".
Heck yes. We know how to build thermoses to block "convection, conduction, and radiation" --- the three means of heat transfer.
I have no problem with this either; we're about to engage "force field technology".
Does your TV turn on by remote command?
What does a Human look like when the water is removed?
I went to Mexico in 1991 to see an eclipse.
It's just a question of moving molecules around; no big deal for someone who built the place in the first place.
Heck, we can do that now; "artificial insemination".
More "moving molecules around". NBD.
Simple physics; if a force is applied equal to and opposite of one's weight, he can walk on anything.
No worse than "multiplying food" --- molecule manipulation.
Again, moving molecules; fixing whatever system failed, and a pair of "jumper cables".
More molecules.

Here's the $64,000 question --- why do you need to have things fit into what your are accustomed to understanding from your five senses?

Can your senses be lied to? Yup.

Take the last one --- can you successfully and credibly deny the guy was raised from the dead? Thousands of people saw Him. The records were not written long after the event, they were written while observers were still around; the records are credible, the testimony is credible --- and you "reserve the right to REJECT the story because it doesn't make sense to you".

With respect, where did you get the pedestal from which you assert the authority to believe things or not?

You know the problem is you are giving other people's opinions your own egocentric views. Things do not have to fit in my world according to my senses, but fit they have to into the puzzle. If I had something paranormal happen that does not fit with my world views, I would not dismiss it offhand. I also would never accept it offhand either. I think that is the difference between us.

The essence of a true scientist is being open minded to the possibilities.

...especially when a hyperdimensional Engineer fits the evidence better than "blind random accident" (selected by nature...)

Sigh...

You seem to have a problem finding an application for the word "random." Want me to fix that for you?

 

[Photonic]

Christianity is a stolen religion from countless other deities at the time, and rewritten to gain political control. Look how huge Rome got after it accepted Christianity with Constantine... Christianity is politically motivated, and reflects nothing of truth in and of itself. How does one write off the council of Nicea? Sorry. This is the only truth. Fundamentalists are listening to the word of a bunch of dudes in robes sitting in an ancient boardroom meeting and calling it fact, above that of observable evidence, and then trying to install their views on the rest of us. I hope religion dies someday and we come to our senses as a species.

So the whole book is a FRAUD, a FICTION, and was written by people who didn't see a guy who called Himself Jesus/God and didn't do any of the very weird things in the book.

That's a lot of faith, in the face of credible copies dating to within 50 years of those who said they saw them. If it had all been fraudulent, it would have to have been written long afterward, or it would have been denounced and destroyed.

...it hasn't been, 'cause it wasn't...

"Testimony of the witnesses"; credible.

Yea, everyone knows knowledge from several thousand years ago will always remain true.

 

[Gadgeteer]

Really? This is really what you want to go with?

Fucking hell yeah that what the fuck I want to go with what in the hell do you have?

Mormons
Christian Scientists
Greek Orthodox
Russian Orthodox
Presbyterian
Jehovah's Witnesses
Seventh Day Adventists
Unitarians
Baptists
Methodists
Catholics
Church of England
Amish
Quakers


Now, big reb, I think you were inferring that Christians never changed their minds over 2000 years....

Oh come on --- those in red are NOT Christians. Take notes:

1. Christians perceive Jesus is God, has no beginning.

2. Christians perceive that eternity is achieved by an undeserved gift.

All religions (including the ones above in red!) believe Jesus is NOT God (he's flesh-and-blood for Mormons, he's Michael-the-Archangel for JW's); and eternity or godhood or whaddever is by GOOD WORKS.

People do according to what they are in their hearts; none of you will ever be convinced of many things until you know the Creator, then your heart will change.

Religion: "You are what you do."
Christianity: "You do what you are."

 

[Gadgeteer]

You seem to have a problem finding an application for the word "random." Want me to fix that for you?

Can't imagine how you'd do that. There would have to be THOUSANDS (millions!) of random mutations for nature to select one or two good ones; and many "naturally advantageous traits" only offer advantage in combination --- forcing the absurd "HOPEFUL MONSTER" view to be the only avenue for evolution!

Yea, everyone knows knowledge from several thousand years ago will always remain true.

We have copies from times where the witnesses were still ALIVE. But you call it "fiction", ignoring that if it HAD been fabrication it would have been successfully denounced!

"Hey, I was there, it never happened!"

No one ever said that.

 

[Gadgeteer]

The implication here being that if you simply wait long enough, evolution will simply be overturned. Or the fact that new discoveries change some aspect of the time line means that the theory is in doubt.

Of course your position doesn't change, it's based on belief not evidence. If it changed at all it would no longer be your belief by definition.

Actually, what's gonna convince people, is fulfillment of prophecy. Global collapse, enactment of a world identification system (it's already encoded into law, "Real ID"), and a world leader that seems to bring peace.

...for awhile...

You'll remember this post in a few years...