Even FOX is a shill for Obama

[nomdeplume]

Why don't you make your case that oil companies are either price fixing, or gouging then.

What? I think you are confused. I was making no such case, nor do I intend to make one now.

I strongly doubt that the word "most" can be used there. Maybe "some". What's the average distance travelled to work in America? Less than a half hour, unless I'm mistaken. Oh my god, 20 miles on a bike! Perish the thought!

I'm sure it varies RADICALLY with the location in the country. The general infrastruture of the east coast was larglery created prior to the automobile, thus it had little impact on city logistics. The midwest and the west all have much more urban sprawl. Let me guess, tear down the cities and build them over, right?

Like MOST, yes MOST, Americans couldn't use the exercise anyway.

Keep the red herrings to a minimum.

To cause the prices to naturally drop within the market. Are you saying that we as consumers don't have that power?

Sure we do, and so does India and China, who will gladly take what you don't want. Their economies are booming; ours is stagnant. What you recommend would be economic suicide as far as american being a global power.

One is an idiot to bike to work rather than drive, if the fuel costs are becoming more of a burden then can be handled?

Garbage in, garbage out. Is your hypothetical employee a mexican illegal picking fruit or something, living in a shack spitting distance from the orchard? Cities near the mississipi and further out west are not setup well for bike travel or walking. It takes me about an hour and a half to ride my bike to campus, 12-20 minutes to drive it, depending on traffic. In one month I would have lost near a full week of fulltime salary. This isn't even getting into things like, duh, many americans have responsibilities like -- drum roll--children. Ride a bike, don't have children, tear down all the non-east coast infrastructer. Got it, comrade! Should we cleanse all those filthy rural folk who sometimes have to dirve 40+ miles to work or buy groceries?

How many people have the ability to just "work another hour"?

About twenty times more than have the ability to maintain their responsibilities in life and bike to and from work every day.

I don't know about you, but before I went into business for myself,

Wow, there's a shocker. This habbit of myopically extrapolating your existence and experiences to other americans is generally the domain of ignorant liberals. Just like you, they really do know best. Reality be damned.

 

[CharlestonChad]

I think that's in regard to using it all at full production capacity. The point of ANWR would be to start separating ourselves from complete foreign dependence by supplementing our foreign consumption with some domestic consumption as well. We might as well start weening ourselves off the teet at some point. What better time than right now?

Besides, just drilling alone isn't the going to be the cure all. There are other factors that go into it, such as stateside refining ability, a weak dollar, and yes, the speculation.

Doing NOTHING is certainly not a good plan. At least ANWR would be doing SOMETHING, but it obviously is going to require more than just that.

Here's a Rasmussen poll showing that the majority of voters favor offshore drilling, and believe it will affect prices. I'm not as interested in what they believe it will do, as much as I am interested in their desire to drill PERIOD. Congress is supposed to represent the will of the people, and the will of the people is to drill. Therefore, they seem to be obligated to act on that desire now.

Rasmussen Reports: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.



Even the liberals have a minority in regards to opposition on the issue, amongst themselves, with almost half of them in favor of it.

How can Congress ignore this? It's time to drill.

The people also elected gw bush, twice

lol

Look, I'm not against drilling for the environmental issues. I'm a conservationist, but I recognize that drilling isn't going to ruin the environment, BUT it's more of a political scheme than a solution. The time and money put into resources could easily go towards research. We'd make gas cheaper by having 60 mpg Hummers than we would knocking off 75 cents on the barrel in a decade. I think we have the capabilities to get more efficient engines and eventually fully electric and biofuel before we have to worry about tapping our own oil. We should save that oil for when the other oil economy countries start to run out. The whole reason the gov subsidizes things is to make sure they are available when in need. I think we need to ration our own oil for when it's in need. We will be having gas powered engines long after we are able to drive 500 miles because not every industry will be capable of making a full scale change to alt energy for a long time. So it makes sense to try to make our reserves last as long as possible, instead of drinking them dry to fuel our wasteful ways.

I'm sure that was somewhat confusing. Here's how I think about it. America is stranded in the desert. We have a bottle of water and a loaf of bread. Some want us to eat the bread and drink the water and act like we're not eating our last meal. That's like using our oil now. I want to ration that bread and water so we can survive til the next rain storm.

 

[nomdeplume]

Look, I'm not against drilling for the environmental issues. I'm a conservationist, but I recognize that drilling isn't going to ruin the environment, BUT it's more of a political scheme than a solution. The time and money put into resources could easily go towards research.

I don't even know how to repond to this without resorting to a personal attack. Seriously, you have to be one of the dumbest people I've had the misfortune to stumble across on the internet. The money being spent is from private enterprise. The government and our tax dollars are not funding it. I can't believe how endemic ignorance is within the modern liberal taint.

 

[Paulie]

What? I think you are confused. I was making no such case, nor do I intend to make one now.



I'm sure it varies RADICALLY with the location in the country. The general infrastruture of the east coast was larglery created prior to the automobile, thus it had little impact on city logistics. The midwest and the west all have much more urban sprawl. Let me guess, tear down the cities and build them over, right?



Keep the red herrings to a minimum.



Sure we do, and so does India and China, who will gladly take what you don't want. Their economies are booming; ours is stagnant. What you recommend would be economic suicide as far as american being a global power.



Garbage in, garbage out. Is your hypothetical employee a mexican illegal picking fruit or something, living in a shack spitting distance from the orchard? Cities near the mississipi and further out west are not setup well for bike travel or walking. It takes me about an hour and a half to ride my bike to campus, 12-20 minutes to drive it, depending on traffic. In one month I would have lost near a full week of fulltime salary. This isn't even getting into things like, duh, many americans have responsibilities like -- drum roll--children. Ride a bike, don't have children, tear down all the non-east coast infrastructer. Got it, comrade! Should we cleanse all those filthy rural folk who sometimes have to dirve 40+ miles to work or buy groceries?



About twenty times more than have the ability to maintain their responsibilities in life and bike to and from work every day.



Wow, there's a shocker. This habbit of myopically extrapolating your existence and experiences to other americans is generally the domain of ignorant liberals. Just like you, they really do know best. Reality be damned.

There are more than enough people in this country that don't have to rely on an automobile for daily survival, no matter how much you argue otherwise.

There is ALREADY a huge increase in the amount of people switching to bicycle over car, for whatever they can get away with it for.

If you happen to have kids, then I guess you are just one of the families that doesn't have the luxury of making the switch. Why should those families have to cancel out the multitude of people who DON'T have that burden? I mean, I have two kids that need daily childcare. We have two cars, and if it weren't for me needing my truck as part of my business, and I still worked for someone else, I would definitely be biking my ~10 miles to work and leaving the gas in the car for trips that bicycles can not supplement.

The difference between my view, and the liberal view, is that I'd never force my view to become reality through laws. I'm making a suggestion to my fellow citizens that would go a long way towards helping them live a more fiscally responsible life within their means, along with affecting market prices favorably. You know, free market economics? Being a conservative, I would think you would have knowledge in that area, no?

Everyone is of course free to do whatever they want. I just get tired of people bitching about something they may possibly have the power themselves to change.

Take responsibility for yourself.

 

[CharlestonChad]

I don't even know how to repond to this without resorting to a personal attack. Seriously, you have to be one of the dumbest people I've had the misfortune to stumble across on the internet. The money being spent is from private enterprise. The government and our tax dollars are not funding it. I can't believe how endemic ignorance is within the modern liberal taint.

Come on regulars, at least defend a fellow poster, even if he's a lib. I'm 100% sure even gunnyL and paulitics will admit that we are subsidizing big oil.

 

[jreeves]

Come on regulars, at least defend a fellow poster, even if he's a lib. I'm 100% sure even gunnyL and paulitics will admit that we are subsidizing big oil.

So we are subsidizing drilling in ANWR? Wow....how is that?

 

[CharlestonChad]

So we are subsidizing drilling in ANWR? Wow....how is that?

IF we open up ANWR, the current subsidies will obviously benefit the same companies.

 

[jreeves]

IF we open up ANWR, the current subsidies will obviously benefit the same companies.

It would seem it would cover their current drilling operations and exploration. But nice try....

 

[Gunny]

The petro industry is highly regulated and investigated for price fixing/gouging. Many people seem to be ignorant of that fact. They are not a free market entity that can raise their prices to whatever the market will bear. They can only make a certain amount of profit. If it was not regulated, we would be paying far, far more than 4-5 bucks a gallon by now.




Oh noez, not the evil oil barons. Did the spirit of Jimmy Carter possess you for a few moments? I could imagine you being a CEO and telling your stock holders that they do not have enough "concern for their nation". Your tenure would be all of half a second.

Dude, you compare me to THAT simp and we're gonna fight. Nothing I said even remotely resembles the length to which Carter was willing to go. At the same time you wouldn't find me being CEO of anything that doesn't care who it jacks its coin from nor what it does to them.

However, you bring up a topic that never gets addressed. Where should the line be drawn? Private corporations control the oil industry. Oil is in fact, necessary to the survival of this nation. Should a commodity that our survival depends upon be owned by private enterprise that is by your own definition above, concerned solely with profit for shareholders?

Private corporations don't own the US military. It's necessary for our survival. Private enterprise as far as I know, don't own the water rights in any major population areas anymore. Anyone who have water rights around here have them conditionally with the understanding that if the city needs the water they will open Bob the Farmer's damn and he's screwed.

So why oil?

 

[CharlestonChad]

It would seem it would cover their current drilling operations and exploration. But nice try....

Tell me what you think "oil subsidies" means.

 

[busara]

I don't even know how to repond to this without resorting to a personal attack. Seriously, you have to be one of the dumbest people I've had the misfortune to stumble across on the internet. The money being spent is from private enterprise. The government and our tax dollars are not funding it. I can't believe how endemic ignorance is within the modern liberal taint.

private enterprise cannot spend money on research?

what is so hard about simply consuming less?

 

[editec]

Yeah, I see plenty of Mainers biking down the road in the aproximately nine months a years that consitutes our average winter.

Sure, that'll happen.

I would dearly love to give up my vehicle. I hate all internal combustion vehicles.

They all too expensive too unreliable.

The moment I don't need a vehicle, I'm ready to jettison the damned thing.

I'm not holding my breath, though. Not where I live, at least.

 

[jillian]

Absurd.

But you're more than welcome, of course, to make your case via sources.

It's probably more like a year's worth of oil, but it will take 10 years to get to and only serves oil company interests, not ours.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/anwr/pdf/sroiaf(2008)03.pdf

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news...ic-drilling-wouldnt-cool-high-oil-prices.html

 

[busara]

i have a problem opening up anwar and other domestic sites. not because of the environmental impact, which will likely be minimal. not because it will have no effect on prices. it will, though likely just a small amount. the problem i have is that it isnt a long term solution. it is a bandaid, and will delay the development and implementation of alternatives to fuels and altering lifestyles. now is as good a time as any to start a mass implementation of alternative power sources and to change driving habits. why not get it done, and save our oil supply for the future when global stocks are low.

build more wind turbines, switch biofuels from corn to sweet sorghum or petrolalgae or set up trade deals with equatorial countries to import palm oil or sugar for ethanol use, reinstate an efficient mass transit system, place solar panels above parking lots and highways and on rooftops, keep pressure on car companies to develop more fuel efficient vehicles. just off the top of my head on things to do to reduce dependence on oil and allow us to keep our stocks in reserve.