Euthanizing dogs and mom

[Sallow]

So, today in The Coffee Shop, the subject of euthanizing pets came up. I pretty much left the subject alone, but then BBD made a post I wanted to discuss. The Coffee Shop wasn't the proper venue.

This is BBD's post,

He makes some wise and valid points in that post.
However, I want to ask some questions about this part,

I think people actually hold a different standard between pets and humans when it comes time to make the decision to euthanize.
Have you ever heard anybody say, "We had to put mom down. It was for the best because she was suffering"? I think it's much easier for people to make a statement like that about a pet than to make it about a blood family member. In fact, I've heard it often when it concerns pets, but never about mom. dad, grandma, grandpa or a child.
I know lots of people that have asked/told a veterinarian to make the lethal injection for a pet but none that asked a doctor to make the lethal injection for a family member (human).
The thing is, you can make that request for an animal (that you love and cherish) but you cannot make the same request for a family member (human) that you love and cherish. People have been imprisoned for euthanizing a family member they love. People have been imprisoned for taking that kind of action on behalf of another person.

Personally, I hold human life in higher regard than I hold an animals life. In my life I've made the decision to euthanize a loved pet. I've also been involved in the decision to end a human's life, but that involved "pulling the plug", not a lethal injection to end their suffering and pain. We had to wait for the person to die after we made that decision.

I see a double standard. We are compassionate people that want to end the suffering of a loved pet, so we do take the step of actively ending that life when it is filled with pain and suffering, but how many could do the same if it was mom? Even if mom wanted you to? The pet didn't ask you to, but you can still do it, as painful for yourself as it is.

In my opinion, we treat humans far less humanly then we do our pets.

The problem, as I see it, is that with humans, there is often money involved. Killing Grandma because keeping her alive would drain the inheritance pot is always a concern.

Having been through the deaths my own family members..and going through one where my girlfriend's father is dying..

That's generally the very last thing to come up.

 

[strollingbones]

end of life issues? since i am the one public about going thru this...and i have finally done the dnr order.....i cant tell you how many times i have looked at her living will or medical directives....and ask myself.....if i am doing what she wants....i have concluded that i am not...all of it seems to hinge on one phrase....'later stages of dementia'...how do i know what stage she is in....does this mean now ....her memory is gone....she is warehoused..granted its a nice warehouse but lets not kid ourselves it is a warehouse....she has an aide 4 hours a day....to help her get started and to take her walking...she now walks 6 miles a day...the whole things kind of remind me of a little hamster .....she walks then she naps most of the day.....she gripes about this and that....but she is not my mom....my mom is gone and there was no morning for her....she passed without notice as the disease sets in...it is all you can do to deal with the moment much less morn the passing of the person you loved.....i think that is why i am so angry now...i mean the worst is over...she is in assisted living she has adjusted to hating me....her health is as good as can be expected....i think a lot of times the doctors with hold info..there is nothing they can do about anything so why go into it....

would i kill my mother.....no.....would i kill this smelly mean ass alien that has mom's body.....on a good day....no....on a bad day....o hell yes...and here is the rub.....i am lucky to have the fiances to deal with this....its not cheap...

here is the thing.....if i follow her directives....i will kill her in the end..simple as that....by withholding meds and any feeding tubes...basically her directives are to remove any meds and to never allow a feeding tubes.....in the 'later stages of dementia'

 

[strollingbones]

o about finances....i will tell yall what i told my mother's guardian ad litum.... if i wanted her money....i would have left her in her home....she would have destroyed her kidneys with over the counter drugs or been killed in the question area she lived in...walking at 4 am by herself...

left alone mom would have been dead in 6 months....i would have her money....if that was my goal....and hell yea hindsight is 20/20 lol.....

 

[strollingbones]

but yea it pisses me off that in the end time....i will have to withhold meds and starve her instead of just letting her have happy pills till she is gone....why not? why should passing be so tough.....why not just let her go....happy?

 

[uscitizen]

There is lots of money in keeping people alive.
the majority of Medicare money is spent in the last 6 months or so of life.

If we let people die sooner your medical costs would rise.

???

If the medical and drug industry was not making so much money off of the dying they would charge the non dying more for services to pay for their infrastructure investments.
Just business.

 

[uscitizen]

End of life issues are extremely personal and should be left to the indivdual and family.

Not the government.

Yes but in our society only the govt or God can decide when someone is to die.

 

[Sallow]

End of life issues are extremely personal and should be left to the indivdual and family.

Not the government.

Yes but in our society only the govt or God can decide when someone is to die.

Amazing isn't it?

 

[saveliberty]

There is lots of money in keeping people alive.
the majority of Medicare money is spent in the last 6 months or so of life.

If we let people die sooner your medical costs would rise.

???

If the medical and drug industry was not making so much money off of the dying they would charge the non dying more for services to pay for their infrastructure investments.
Just business.

More likely the industry would contract. Nonemergency services can be delayed or simply not used.

 

[California Girl]

End of life issues are extremely personal and should be left to the indivdual and family.

Not the government.

Along with medical professionals.

 

[California Girl]

end of life issues? since i am the one public about going thru this...and i have finally done the dnr order.....i cant tell you how many times i have looked at her living will or medical directives....and ask myself.....if i am doing what she wants....i have concluded that i am not...all of it seems to hinge on one phrase....'later stages of dementia'...how do i know what stage she is in....does this mean now ....her memory is gone....she is warehoused..granted its a nice warehouse but lets not kid ourselves it is a warehouse....she has an aide 4 hours a day....to help her get started and to take her walking...she now walks 6 miles a day...the whole things kind of remind me of a little hamster .....she walks then she naps most of the day.....she gripes about this and that....but she is not my mom....my mom is gone and there was no morning for her....she passed without notice as the disease sets in...it is all you can do to deal with the moment much less morn the passing of the person you loved.....i think that is why i am so angry now...i mean the worst is over...she is in assisted living she has adjusted to hating me....her health is as good as can be expected....i think a lot of times the doctors with hold info..there is nothing they can do about anything so why go into it....

would i kill my mother.....no.....would i kill this smelly mean ass alien that has mom's body.....on a good day....no....on a bad day....o hell yes...and here is the rub.....i am lucky to have the fiances to deal with this....its not cheap...

here is the thing.....if i follow her directives....i will kill her in the end..simple as that....by withholding meds and any feeding tubes...basically her directives are to remove any meds and to never allow a feeding tubes.....in the 'later stages of dementia'

When it comes to these issues, I don't think there is a 'one size fits all' answer. We tend, as a society, to look for the 'quick fix'.... and there often isn't one. As I've said before, you do the best thing for her and trust your own instincts. No one can expect more of you - including yourself. Don't beat yourself up over things you cannot change.

 

[California Girl]

In my opinion, we treat humans far less humanly then we do our pets.

The problem, as I see it, is that with humans, there is often money involved. Killing Grandma because keeping her alive would drain the inheritance pot is always a concern.

Having been through the deaths my own family members..and going through one where my girlfriend's father is dying..

That's generally the very last thing to come up.

That's your experience... but there is certainly evidence to raise the concern.

 

[uscitizen]

End of life issues are extremely personal and should be left to the indivdual and family.

Not the government.

Yes but in our society only the govt or God can decide when someone is to die.

Amazing isn't it?

Yep voluntarially giving the final liberty to god and country taking it.

 

[saveliberty]

The problem, as I see it, is that with humans, there is often money involved. Killing Grandma because keeping her alive would drain the inheritance pot is always a concern.

Having been through the deaths my own family members..and going through one where my girlfriend's father is dying..

That's generally the very last thing to come up.

That's your experience... but there is certainly evidence to raise the concern.

You mean its what you are concerned about first?

 

[Katzndogz]

There is little doubt that we will start putting people down as if they were suffering animals. Some will see continued life as draining an inheritance. Some will just be tired of taking care of, or even feeling they had to visit a very sick person. Get the government paying the medical bills and they will make the decision.

Once we are fully invested in putting the sick down, we will put them down at earlier and earlier stages. Why bother with expensive treatments. An initial diagnosis of a terminal illness is better than wasting money on treatment. Then we can turn our attention from the dying to the sick, and perhaps just the unhappy.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Some of you may remember some time back my Dad was knocked down in a nursing home and broke his hip. At the hospital they replaced the ball of his hip and had him preparing for rehab. He quit eating and reacting, they had to move him to Intensive care.

When it came time that they wanted to put in a feeding tube My eldest sister and I as executor and co-executor talked with the oldest brother and made the call to move him to hospice as his wishes.

They took him off all the meds except the ones for pain. moved him to a Hospice house and the family waited for him to give up. But the grandkids and great grandkids that couldn't visit him in the hospital got him to start eating. his health began to improve. after just 5 days we moved him to another full service nursing home where he would get rehab. But he developed a blood clot that moved to his heart and passed away with only 20 minutes notice that something was wrong.

Did we make the right decisions? He had Alzheimer's, the last thing he said to me was 3 hours earlier when he asked me why I never came home at night any more. I'm not even positive if he knew it was me.

I never shed a tear for him. He was one of the greatest people I had ever known.

On the other hand when our 10 year old Weimeraner developed bone cancer in his hips and could no longer walk I could hardly sign the credit slip from my check card........

And when it's Colonels time I hope he passes in his sleep.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I would much rather go like my Mother than my Father. My mother pulled some cinnamon buns out of the oven, mentioned she was tired and was going to take a nap. She was dead before she hit the pillow. Dad, his body wasted for years. It was sheer torture, watching a once vigorous man waste to a tiny stick, confined to a wheelchair and unable to do much for himself except eat. The true tragedy was, his mind remained alert. Looking into the eyes of a soul trapped in the prison of a wasted body...
Bones, you do the best you can, it's all you have. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

I think some people euthanize pets because they don't want them to suffer anymore. I think some people euthanize them because, deep down inside, they don't want to be bothered with their illness so they rationalize it by saying they are easing their suffering.

I think it's the same with humans. And I think it would be the same if we were allowed to "euthanize" humans. The people motivated by love and not wanting their loved one to have to suffer anymore...that is one thing. Those motivated by wanting to be rid of the responsibility...that's another. And that's what worries me. Especially when dealing with ancient people who may be confused and easily led or guilt-tripped into making decisions they would rather not make.

What we are accustomed to doing to animals, we will eventually do to people, if allowed. Look at all the animals who are euthanized simply because they're a burden, or someone doesn't want them anymore, or they're protective of their fucking food dish, or whatever.

P.S. I'd like to state that there is at least one dog in this world who is just as important as any human on the face of the earth. And I have the privilege of living with her.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I think some people euthanize pets because they don't want them to suffer anymore. I think some people euthanize them because, deep down inside, they don't want to be bothered with their illness so they rationalize it by saying they are easing their suffering.

I think it's the same with humans. And I think it would be the same if we were allowed to "euthanize" humans. The people motivated by love and not wanting their loved one to have to suffer anymore...that is one thing. Those motivated by wanting to be rid of the responsibility...that's another. And that's what worries me. Especially when dealing with ancient people who may be confused and easily led or guilt-tripped into making decisions they would rather not make.

What we are accustomed to doing to animals, we will eventually do to people, if allowed. Look at all the animals who are euthanized simply because they're a burden, or someone doesn't want them anymore, or they're protective of their fucking food dish, or whatever.

P.S. I'd like to state that there is at least one dog in this world who is just as important as any human on the face of the earth. And I have the privilege of living with her.

Hello, Koosh! How is your fur-fam? Missed ya!

 

[Gagafritz]

People are not animals and animals are not people. So, treating people one way and animals another is not necessarily wrong or inconsistent. But, it is a good question and one which is going to be an even bigger issue as our population ages. Nobody wants to live in a nursing home, etc. But, end of life decisions rarely happen in a neat and tidy way and the road ahead isn't clear. When you are making those kinds of decisions there are many factors which can sway you either way. It isn't a simple "either or". And, you don't have crystal ball to see who is going to make a great recovery and who is going to linger.

 

[Katzndogz]

My mail carrier's 70 year old Dad had a stroke. Because he was over 70, Kaiser refused to pay for swallowing therapy. They would pay for him to be in a hospice until he died. The family got together to pay for swallowing therapy at Cedars Sinai. They paid for part of it, and charity picked up the rest. The old man lived another 5-6 years.