Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

[AntonToo]

Nope you are still wrong, yes it has run out on some cars such as Teslaly.

I'm right, as you admit right here. Tesla, which is the largest electric car manufacturer, gets no Federal credit.

Yes, other manufacturers do get it, but the point is Tesla has clearly proved that EVs are a comercially viable product already without subsidies.

 

[AntonToo]

That is false, my brother is driving his second one, I have been in the vehicle it did fine in the Seattle area with those rolling hills in the area.

The heater and A/C worked fine the entire time, never have to worry about.

There are over 2 MILLION of them on the road.

You should try a Tesla for comparison.

It doesn't do "fine" it knocks your socks off.

 

[westwall]

You should try a Tesla for comparison.

It doesn't do "fine" it knocks your socks off.

I've driven them. They are OK. Build quality is variable. Sometimes it's good Sometimes it's bad.

If I want performance I will hop in my GT40. The Tesla beats me to the quarter mile, but then I eat him for lunch.

And dinner, and desert.

Plus, I can take corners at speeds that the Tesla can only dream of.

 

[Sunsettommy]

You should try a Tesla for comparison.

It doesn't do "fine" it knocks your socks off.

I already have 4 vehicles, two of them better than the overrated Tesla's.

I would prefer a Toyota Prius over EV any day..

 

[AntonToo]

I've driven them. They are OK. Build quality is variable. Sometimes it's good Sometimes it's bad.

If I want performance I will hop in my GT40. The Tesla beats me to the quarter mile, but then I eat him for lunch.

And dinner, and desert.

Plus, I can take corners at speeds that the Tesla can only dream of.

You are comparing to GT40, I'm talking about comparing model 3 or Y to a Prius and Tesla is simply on another planet

 

[westwall]

You are comparing to GT40, I'm talking about comparing model 3 or Y to a Prius and Tesla is simply on another planet

Ok, I will happily take a BMW M3 around the Nordschleife. I will CRUSH the Tesla. The Tesla is only good in a straight line. After that the immense weight kills it for cornering. And at 80K for the performance model I am 50K CHEAPER than your Tesla.

 

[AntonToo]

Ok, I will happily take a BMW M3 around the Nordschleife. I will CRUSH the Tesla. The Tesla is only good in a straight line. After that the immense weight kills it for cornering. And at 80K for the performance model I am 50K CHEAPER than your Tesla.

Lets note the talk-past. You don't want to admit Model 3 crushing the ho-hum Prius so you switch the comparison.

Model 3 Performance is $57,000. Thats $23000 cheaper than M3...it's faster to 1/4 mile and and its just as fast around the track.

BMW M3 vs Tesla Model 3 Performance - FastestLaps.com

Compare performance of BMW M3 (F80) and Tesla Model 3 Performance. Updated July 2023.

fastestlaps.com

 

[westwall]

Lets note the talk-past. You don't want to admit Model 3 crushing the ho-hum Prius so you switch the comparison.

Model 3 Performance is $57,000. Thats $23000 cheaper...and its just as fast around the track.

BMW M3 vs Tesla Model 3 Performance - FastestLaps.com

Compare performance of BMW M3 (F80) and Tesla Model 3 Performance. Updated July 2023.

fastestlaps.com

No, YOU claimed the Tesla was better than anything in its class. The M3 is CHEAPER by 50,000 and will destroy the Tesla on the Nordschleife. YOU are the one trying to move the goalpost. You just don't know shit about cars. I DO!

 

[AntonToo]

No, YOU claimed the Tesla was better than anything in its class. The M3 is CHEAPER by 50,000 and will destroy the Tesla on the Nordschleife. YOU are the one trying to move the goalpost. You just don't know shit about cars. I DO!

Silly, do you really not understand that Tesla makes more than one car model?

M3 is $23,000 MORE expensive than Model 3P

Tesla Model S Plaid that you are talking about is the fastest production car and DESTROYS M3 stock for stock.

 

[AntonToo]

YOU claimed the Tesla was better than anything in its class.

Nope, you are just making that up.

What I said was that it destroys Prius and, even though you never refute that, you keep on trying to deflect. I don't know whats causing you to do this, but there is definetly some sort of hang up there.

 

[westwall]

Nope, you are just making that up.

What I said was that it destroys Prius and, even though you never refute that, you keep on trying to deflect. I don't know whats causing you to do this, but there is definetly some sort of hang up there.

Of course it destroys a Prius. The Prius is an anemic piece of crap. But one of your first posts you said take all three of those and you have a Tesla.

One of those was a Ferrari if I am correct with my identification. Your claim is farcical.

 

[AntonToo]

Of course it destroys a Prius. The Prius is an anemic piece of crap. But one of your first posts you said take all three of those and you have a Tesla.

One of those was a Ferrari if I am correct with my identification. Your claim is farcical.

New Plaid is faster accelerating than any Ferrari.

The point is Tesla blends sports car performance, 125MPGe efficiency, high tech and practicality of family cars and suvs.

If you want all that in one car this is as close as you going to get.

 

[westwall]

New Plaid is faster accelerating than any Ferrari.

The point is Tesla blends sports car performance, 125MPGe efficiency, high tech and practicality of family cars and suvs.

If you want all that in one car this is as close as you going to get.

Faster to 100. Then gets left in the dust. Further, the top end is less than the Ferrari, and when you are traveling full speed the Tesla is good for about 47 miles. Then you have to recharge.

The Ferrari will go 3 times as far, and a refuel to 100% is 5 minutes. The Tesla needs hours to get to 100%.

Put a simple way, if there were no cops in the way, I can go from Reno to Las Vegas in 3 hours in the Ferrari. It would take you double that in your Plaid.

And, I can continue on. Your Plaid would need to stop in Vegas to get a full charge.

 

[AntonToo]

Faster to 100. Then gets left in the dust. Further, the top end is less than the Ferrari, and when you are traveling full speed the Tesla is good for about 47 miles. Then you have to recharge.

The Ferrari will go 3 times as far, and a refuel to 100% is 5 minutes. The Tesla needs hours to get to 100%.

Put a simple way, if there were no cops in the way, I can go from Reno to Las Vegas in 3 hours in the Ferrari. It would take you double that in your Plaid.

And, I can continue on. Your Plaid would need to stop in Vegas to get a full charge.

Dude you are crazy. Plead runs
1/4 mile in 9 seconds at 150mph, it will keep up just fine, not that 100+ is even a realistic factor on public roads.

Ferrari is an expensive sports toy, Model S is a large 4 door sedan with 400 mile range that no one will drive at it's full insane capacity all the time.

 

[watchingfromafar]

Only about 3% of the global population drive them.
So I don't understand what is meant by them being on the tipping point of mass production.

There is another solution

Then we have this tooo

-

 

[Sunsettommy]

Dude you are crazy. Plead runs
1/4 mile in 9 seconds at 150mph, it will keep up just fine, not that 100+ is even a realistic factor on public roads.

Ferrari is an expensive sports toy, Model S is a large 4 door sedan with 400 mile range that no one will drive at it's full insane capacity all the time.

You are missing the obvious point, EV's could work in the cities fine, but NOT for long trips.

 

[westwall]

Dude you are crazy. Plead runs
1/4 mile in 9 seconds at 150mph, it will keep up just fine, not that 100+ is even a realistic factor on public roads.

Ferrari is an expensive sports toy, Model S is a large 4 door sedan with 400 mile range that no one will drive at it's full insane capacity all the time.

Ok, then let's go back to the aforementioned BMW M3. 50K less than your Plaid, and the same times apply. Your Plaid, going fast runs the battery flat in 35 minutes. My beemer can go flat out to Tonopah before I have to refuel. You are stuck in Hawthorne. Ye finally get to Tonopah, but I am now in Beatty. You wait the 20 minutes for your 80% recharge, and then you are off again. But I am already in Vegas baby. Real world times show that yes the Tesla is great for zero to 100 mph, but then it gets left in the dust of the ICE vehicle.

We had fun with a real world example. Myself and a Tesla left Reno at the same time. He blew me away driving 90 mph, while I was mosying along at 75 ish. We caught him Hawthorne where he was recharging. He then blew by us about 20 miles outside Tonopah, where he again had to recharge. Then he blew by us on the way to Beatty, then we passed him again.

Passing Creech AFB he blasted by us again, but then in Vegas he had to get a hotel room while we continued on the Phoenix.

He rolled in to Phoenix 13 HOURS after us.

That's REAL world data.

 

[AntonToo]

You are missing the obvious point, EV's could work in the cities fine, but NOT for long trips.

It works for long trips, I've taken many. By the time you run down the battery it's time for a food stop anyway.

Not as flexible as gasoline car(esp. in remote areas) but with faster charging rates and expanded charging infrastructure that's not really a long term factor.

 

[westwall]

It works for long trips, I've taken many. By the time you run down the battery it's time for a food stop anyway.

Not as flexible as gasoline car(esp. in remote areas) but with faster charging rates and expanded charging infrastructure that's not really a long term factor.

Ummm, yeah, it is. Take a stroll through YouTube. Tons of videos by EV owners who go through all sorts of hell on long trips.

The infrastructure you dream about is decades away. And, there aren't enough fossil fuel powered power plants to create all the electricity you would need, and no renewable source has the ability to it at all.

You are the typical pie in the sky dreamer (which is good) but you have NO concept of the real world and why your dream is unworkable.

 

[Sunsettommy]

It works for long trips, I've taken many. By the time you run down the battery it's time for a food stop anyway.

Not as flexible as gasoline car(esp. in remote areas) but with faster charging rates and expanded charging infrastructure that's not really a long term factor.

You are a stupid liar.

How Long Does it Take to Charge a Tesla?

If you are low it will take you at least 1 hour to recharge to 80% level and that is using the Super charger mode which should be rarely used as it wears the battery down much more rapidly than a standard home 120= 220 V charge.

=======

Here is a Comment that really exposed the irrelevance of EV's

That’s 20 minutes (minimum, assuming the charger doesn’t trip off and stop charging, as they are wont to do), and that requires the SuperCharger, and you can only do that a certain number of times before Tesla permanently limits your charge rate to prevent the battery spontaneously combusting.

Meanwhile, I can fill up my ICE vehicle in ~5 minutes, time after time after time after time, and I’m not permanently limited at some future point from filling at the maximum rate.

And I don’t have to replace my gas tank after a certain time, at an average cost of $13000 – $20,000… but you? You’re going to have your charge rate permanently limited at some point, and you will have to purchase a new battery at a cost of $13000 – $20000 at some point.

The economics don’t work out until gasoline gets more expensive than ~$4/gal, and the carbon dioxide emissions for a Tesla Model S right off the factory floor are more than a 40 MPG vehicle will emit over years and years.

From my drop-kicking another TeslaTard:
———-

Let’s talk emissions!

According to the DOE EV Emission Calculator, an EV in Illinois driving 12,000 miles per year will emit 2389 pounds of CO2 equivalent.

The Tesla 100 kWh battery requires ~30,600 pounds of CO2 to produce. We’ll assume both gasoline and EV vehicle production requires 30,000 pounds of CO2 emission.

A gasoline-fueled vehicle with 40 MPG fuel efficiency will emit 5,960 pounds CO2 per year at 12,000 miles/yr, per EPA.

Production + (Annual * T_gas) = Production + (Annual * T_EV)
30,000 + (5,960 * T_gas) = 30,000 + 30,600 + (2389 * T_EV)

Solving for T (years required for EV to offset emissions) gives a breakeven point of 8.569029 years and 102,828.348 miles. Before that breakeven point, the EV has emitted more CO2 than the gasoline-powered vehicle.

———-

Let’s talk economics! (Now updated to reflect actual average electricity price in Illinois, and a gasoline price above current average price)

Assumptions:
– A gas vehicle with 17 km L-1 fuel mileage

– An EV with 88.9891 Wh/km/1000 kg consumption and 2107 kg vehicle + 85 kg driver = 2192 kg total weight, for 195.0641072 Wh km-1 total consumption.

– 482803.2 km driven

– $1 L-1 for gasoline (~$3.785/gallon)

– $0.1332 kWh-1 for electricity

– The battery efficiency alone (power delivered to the battery vs. the power delivered by the battery) for Lithium batteries tops out at 90% for newer or highly-expensive batteries, and can be as low as 80% for older or consumer-grade batteries:
Car Battery Efficiencies

– The Tesla charger has a 92% efficiency for 240V at 24A, and 94% efficiency for 240V at 40A/80A:
https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/18017/charging-efficiency

– So, given that you have a used vehicle, we’ll be generous and assume 85% battery efficiency, and we’ll assume you’re charging at 24A:
100 * 0.85 * 0.92 = 78.2% “wall to battery” efficiency

Gas vehicle:
((482803.2 km / 17 km L-1) * $1 L-1) = $28,400.19

Electric vehicle:
((((482803.2 km * 195.0641072 Wh km-1) / 1000) / 0.782 efficiency) * $0.1332 kWh-1) = $16,041.50 + $13,000 battery replacement = $29041.50

Remember, that $13,000 battery replacement is a low-end quote… if can range up to $20,000, depending upon labor costs and complications.

$29041.50 > $28,400.19

I save $641.31 driving my ICE-powered vehicle 300,000 miles vs. your toy electric clowncar, even with gasoline price higher than it actually is. Gasoline prices are inflated in the US due to libtard politics… as of July 2021, the worldwide average price for gasoline was a mere $1.56 / gallon, making EVs an even worse choice outside the US.