Educate the LayPeople

[Nik]

seems it is,, cause so far you have failed to explain how this test is racist.. matter of fact you said "I don't know."

Please list for me all the reasons why blacks might do worse than whites in a given area.

If you can't, then how do you expect me to know exactly what makes the test racist? I don't know everything that makes it racist, I just know the end result is a racist one. Could it be something else? Sure. But the odds of that are slim. Maybe you haven't noticed, but we have a history of racism in this country.

because you are the one insisting the test is racist.. seems like you should know why! that's just makes sense..

You can't know anything unless you know why it happens? Are you really making this claim? Why don't you step back and think about whether you really want to say this.

 

[WillowTree]

Please list for me all the reasons why blacks might do worse than whites in a given area.

If you can't, then how do you expect me to know exactly what makes the test racist? I don't know everything that makes it racist, I just know the end result is a racist one. Could it be something else? Sure. But the odds of that are slim. Maybe you haven't noticed, but we have a history of racism in this country.

because you are the one insisting the test is racist.. seems like you should know why! that's just makes sense..

You can't know anything unless you know why it happens? Are you really making this claim? Why don't you step back and think about whether you really want to say this.

that's exactly what I want to say.. if you believe something to be true,, you should know why you believe it.. you can't just guess and hope you are right? damn! are you sure you went to law school???

 

[Yurt]

because you are the one insisting the test is racist.. seems like you should know why! that's just makes sense..

You can't know anything unless you know why it happens? Are you really making this claim? Why don't you step back and think about whether you really want to say this.

that's exactly what I want to say.. if you believe something to be true,, you should know why you believe it.. you can't just guess and hope you are right? damn! are you sure you went to law school???

he graduated cum laude from Hugo Chavez School Of Law

 

[WillowTree]

You can't know anything unless you know why it happens? Are you really making this claim? Why don't you step back and think about whether you really want to say this.

that's exactly what I want to say.. if you believe something to be true,, you should know why you believe it.. you can't just guess and hope you are right? damn! are you sure you went to law school???

he graduated cum laude from Hugo Chavez School Of Law

well's here's hoping we don't accidently stumble into his "law" office some day!

 

[Diuretic]

Reminds me of a good lawyer joke.

There's a group of golfers waiting behind another group which appears to be going very slow and won't invite the second group to play through. A bit later the second group is at the clubhouse and complaining to the manager about the tardy group.

"Oh them, well they're a bunch of blind firefighters, they saved our clubhouse from burning down last year but were blinded in the fire and we let them play here for free."

One of the group, a doctor, says, "Well it's probably good rehab for them so I won't complain."

Another member of the group, a pastor, says, "Then it's God's will and we know He has love and compassion for all."

The third member of the group, a lawyer, is unimpressed. He asks "In that case couldn't they play at night?"

 

[Ravi]

What it Takes to Be a Firefighter - Associated Content

Thanks for proving my point.

Now tell me, would you be okay with a test that was given in ebonics and the black applicants passed in higher numbers than the whites? Or would you agree it would be unfair to the whites?

 

[WillowTree]

What it Takes to Be a Firefighter - Associated Content

Thanks for proving my point.

Now tell me, would you be okay with a test that was given in ebonics and the black applicants passed in higher numbers than the whites? Or would you agree it would be unfair to the whites?

so you agree with me then, we have to have a test for blacks, a test for whites, a test for hispanics, a test for asians.. ?????

 

[Annie]

so do black lawyers take the same bar exam??


do black physicians take the same boards??


why should firefighters be any different?? doyathink?

Doctors and lawyers are tested on very narrowly focused knowledge after years of education directed toward the end result. The same thing cannot be said about firefighters or even supervisory roles, which was the case in this instance.

how are firefighters not narrowly focused?

Especially at lieutenant or captain rank? Seems they need the everyday knowledge they would already have plus managerial skills, no?

 

[Ravi]

What it Takes to Be a Firefighter - Associated Content

Thanks for proving my point.

Now tell me, would you be okay with a test that was given in ebonics and the black applicants passed in higher numbers than the whites? Or would you agree it would be unfair to the whites?

so you agree with me then, we have to have a test for blacks, a test for whites, a test for hispanics, a test for asians.. ?????

No, and I already answered that question. But you refuse to answer mine.

 

[WillowTree]

Thanks for proving my point.

Now tell me, would you be okay with a test that was given in ebonics and the black applicants passed in higher numbers than the whites? Or would you agree it would be unfair to the whites?

so you agree with me then, we have to have a test for blacks, a test for whites, a test for hispanics, a test for asians.. ?????

No, and I already answered that question. But you refuse to answer mine.

but you've said that white people should not take a test written in ebonics, and therefore a black person should not take a test and do will in an English test. so what am I to glean from this? doyathink??? should we go to signal flags?

 

[Ravi]

so you agree with me then, we have to have a test for blacks, a test for whites, a test for hispanics, a test for asians.. ?????

No, and I already answered that question. But you refuse to answer mine.

but you've said that white people should not take a test written in ebonics, and therefore a black person should not take a test and do will in an English test. so what am I to glean from this? doyathink??? should we go to signal flags?

Don't worry about it Willow, I didn't expect you to answer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

Results do not make a test illegal.. Results that would be as a result of typecasting by race on purpose would be illegal... results based on actual performance or knowledge needed to perform the job, irregardless if only X amount of whatever race, would be just fine

Actually results do make a test illegal. This is because there is a presumption that blacks aren't systematically more stupid/less qualified than whites. Do you have some issue with this presumption?

This is bullshit.

everyone taking the test had the same amount of time to prepare and the same materials from which to study.

these type of tests are not rocket science. you read the material and answer multiple choice questions on the information you supposedly studied.

the only reason one does not pass a test like these is that they did not master the material. Period.

 

[WillowTree]

No, and I already answered that question. But you refuse to answer mine.

but you've said that white people should not take a test written in ebonics, and therefore a black person should not take a test and do will in an English test. so what am I to glean from this? doyathink??? should we go to signal flags?

Don't worry about it Willow, I didn't expect you to answer.

so,, you think i should answer you but you don't answer me??

 

[WillowTree]

Regarding the Fireman's test in Conn. What was it about the test that made it disparate??

I sure it must have involved.. firefighting and rescue procedures,, and policy.. and possibly some management questions. So what was it about this test that was illegal.. as in a black man could not pass it but a white man could.. I don't get it..

Ricci v. Destefano.

Don't know. Care to explain to us why no blacks and only 2 of 50 minorities passed it?

Title VII makes results like that illegal. Do you think Sotomayer should have followed what the law said, or no?

Results do not make a test illegal.. Results that would be as a result of typecasting by race on purpose would be illegal... results based on actual performance or knowledge needed to perform the job, irregardless if only X amount of whatever race, would be just fine

Actually results do make a test illegal. This is because there is a presumption that blacks aren't systematically more stupid/less qualified than whites. Do you have some issue with this presumption?

This is bullshit.

everyone taking the test had the same amount of time to prepare and the same materials from which to study.

these type of tests are not rocket science. you read the material and answer multiple choice questions on the information you supposedly studied.

the only reason one does not pass a test like these is that they did not master the material. Period.

Good old common sense comes through every time.

 

[Nik]

Tech.. I do understand the premise of the statute. What I find flawed is the assumption that if minorities don't pass the test, then the test itself must be flawed. Who is to say that the minorities didn't choose to not prepare for the test, knowing that their failure would result in an easier exam? While I doubt that to be the case, it's just as likely as the fact that minorities that live and are educated in the same society as white people are all somehow suddenly unable to comprehend the written word and must have "table models" in order to show their knowledge.

How exactly did the minorities know that their failure would result in an easier exam? (Which in fact they couldn't "know" since it didn't happen).

The claim isn't that "minorities can't comprehend the written word". Its that the written word can be interpreted differently by people of different races. Hence when there are black and white multiple choice answers, those who have systematic interpretations closer to the makers of the test, have an advantage.

And just because we are all educated in the same society, we have similar educations? Thats an odd viewpoint to have.

Perhaps you can explain why you think that those educated in the same society are going to have different educations? Do the teachers in New Haven ask the minority children to leave the room before they begin the reading lessons? They don't do that here, but who knows what happens in Connecticut. It certainly seems to me that those minorities that attended the same public schools, with the same books, the same teachers that the white people in their town attended ought to have a similar education. Especially since New Haven is not that large a town. I think you're making excuses or you really have the opinion that minorities aren't as intelligent as white people.

Have you ever been to New Haven? An old friend of mine did teach for America there. He taught at a public school in the area...very poor, and pretty much all black kids. Don't know what America you live in, but most areas which have large black and white populations are fairly well segregated. New Haven is no different.

 

[Xenophon]

Have they published which questions were unfair to blacks?

I'm curious to know how they made this test racist.

 

[driveby]

This test was biased against people with dyslexia, oops nevermind, the dyslexic guy passed..........

 

[Vel]

How exactly did the minorities know that their failure would result in an easier exam? (Which in fact they couldn't "know" since it didn't happen).

The claim isn't that "minorities can't comprehend the written word". Its that the written word can be interpreted differently by people of different races. Hence when there are black and white multiple choice answers, those who have systematic interpretations closer to the makers of the test, have an advantage.

And just because we are all educated in the same society, we have similar educations? Thats an odd viewpoint to have.

Perhaps you can explain why you think that those educated in the same society are going to have different educations? Do the teachers in New Haven ask the minority children to leave the room before they begin the reading lessons? They don't do that here, but who knows what happens in Connecticut. It certainly seems to me that those minorities that attended the same public schools, with the same books, the same teachers that the white people in their town attended ought to have a similar education. Especially since New Haven is not that large a town. I think you're making excuses or you really have the opinion that minorities aren't as intelligent as white people.

Have you ever been to New Haven? An old friend of mine did teach for America there. He taught at a public school in the area...very poor, and pretty much all black kids. Don't know what America you live in, but most areas which have large black and white populations are fairly well segregated. New Haven is no different.

You're just laying out more lame excuses. New Haven has a population of fewer than 130,000. The school system will be issuing the same textbooks, the same computer systems and the same curriculum for the system's schools. All students attending the same school system should be equally educated to the degree that the public is able to affect the child's education.
And I don't know what America you live in, but most areas were required to integrate their schools by the early 70's.

 

[Vel]

What it Takes to Be a Firefighter - Associated Content

Thanks for proving my point.

Now tell me, would you be okay with a test that was given in ebonics and the black applicants passed in higher numbers than the whites? Or would you agree it would be unfair to the whites?

That depends. Were ebonics taught in the public school system?