Zone1 Easing Divisions/Restoring Unity?

[BreezeWood]

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household” (Matthew 10:34-36).

jesus was speaking of the evils of - paterfamilias the similarity of the jewish hereditary idolatry and moses's 10 commandments ...

all corruptions of the heavenly religion of antiquity jesus and those that perished with him believed in.

 

[Donald H]

The one issue I think would be extremely difficult to overcome is that Catholic and Orthodox believe in Christ's true presence in the Eucharist. Many believe it is only symbolic.

Issues we might be able to come to terms with are statues, confession, addressing priests/ministers as 'Father', and "Once saved, always saved." Catholics/Orthodox tend to view Christ's life, death, and resurrection in terms of Redemption/Salvation, where as some merely view it as being "saved" meaning "saved from hell".

I think that the 'confession' thing is something that other churches could agree with. It appears to be a license to do as much evil as desired and then be forgiven and be able to start all over again. In crude terms that are intended to get straight to the hard facts.

Otherwise, I think that all that is important to most Christians now is the symbolism of going to church on Sunday and coming out feeling that they've done all that is necessary.

 

[Donald H]

You cannot restore what was never there and there has never been unity among different religions

Shrinking congregations has brought the different sects together so that they can all sit under one roof ignoring their differences.

It's hypocrisy that works for the greater good.
And there's no doubt that the most comfortable interpretations of their bibles will eventually be adopted by all who attend. For example, living in the belly of a big fish can't possibly be chosen by the new mixed flock as the way forward. The literal believers will have to make some sacrifices to modern science.

 

[Meriweather]

I think that the 'confession' thing is something that other churches could agree with. It appears to be a license to do as much evil as desired and then be forgiven and be able to start all over again. In crude terms that are intended to get straight to the hard facts.

Umm, I think other churches need to rethink. Confession is not a "license." It is central to the message of Jesus, that we need to turn away from sin to receive forgiveness. Forgiveness is not granted for those whose intent is to go out and sin again. In the Sacrament of Repentance, we hear allowed the words Jesus spoke: "Your sins are forgiven." It appears other churches have twisted a sacrament (something holy to the life of Jesus) into something they don't need to be bothered with. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is a great blessing, and so central to the life and teachings of Jesus.

On the other hand, while confession should definitely be better understood, it need not be a requirement. Those who have no wish to hear, "Your sins are forgiven" or reflect on this aspect of Jesus' life and teaching, should not be made to. Perhaps some, even many, know in their hearts their sins have been forgiven, and that is enough for them.

The compromise then is that the Sacrament remains, but not a requirement?

 

[Meriweather]

Otherwise, I think that all that is important to most Christians now is the symbolism of going to church on Sunday and coming out feeling that they've done all that is necessary.

By 'necessary' do you mean 'obligatory'? Along with the aspect of worshiping God as a community, shouldn't Church be something we look forward to all week? It is an hour where we get to set aside all the demands of the physical world/life we lead, and concentrate on our spirits and the life they lead. We have goals in our physical lives demanding our attention. Nothing wrong with that. But shouldn't we be looking forward to a quiet time where we can also reflect on spiritual goals?

 

[Donald H]

Umm, I think other churches need to rethink. Confession is not a "license." It is central to the message of Jesus, that we need to turn away from sin to receive forgiveness. Forgiveness is not granted for those whose intent is to go out and sin again. In the Sacrament of Repentance, we hear allowed the words Jesus spoke: "Your sins are forgiven." It appears other churches have twisted a sacrament (something holy to the life of Jesus) into something they don't need to be bothered with. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is a great blessing, and so central to the life and teachings of Jesus.

I wouldn't doubt that the Catholic church's stated intent is what you say, but the proof is in the pudding. (the purpose served)

On the other hand, while confession should definitely be better understood, it need not be a requirement. Those who have no wish to hear, "Your sins are forgiven" or reflect on this aspect of Jesus' life and teaching, should not be made to. Perhaps some, even many, know in their hearts their sins have been forgiven, and that is enough for them.

It's not enough for Catholics to just believe they're forgiven, and hence their need for a confession. I still think it's probably the best gift the Catholics could offer to the others who come to sit under one big all inclusive roof.

The compromise then is that the Sacrament remains, but not a requirement?

The compromises are already being made as more and more churches are being levelled to make room for more profitable land use. This accomplishes the unity you are imagining.

Is there anything imaginable that can reverse the trend? That is, something not supernatural.

 

[Donald H]

By 'necessary' do you mean 'obligatory'?

Perhaps if you believe your bibles place obligations on the flock.

Along with the aspect of worshiping God as a community, shouldn't Church be something we look forward to all week?

Look forward to paying money to be permitted to worship?

It is an hour where we get to set aside all the demands of the physical world/life we lead, and concentrate on our spirits and the life they lead. We have goals in our physical lives demanding our attention. Nothing wrong with that. But shouldn't we be looking forward to a quiet time where we can also reflect on spiritual goals?

An hour to escape from life? I don't live in a society that causes me to want to escape life.
I think you've just suggested the reason you go to church.

I don't know if others are doing the same or not.
Escape guilt perhaps? Escape what their country has done with America's war machines? I would class that as the church serving evil in that what they've done has been lifted off of their shoulders. Better that the church cause them to bear the weight of the evil for the rest of their lives.

The Salvation Army would be the way that needs to be chosen for those who are orphaned by their church being torn down to make way for progress. That Army doesn't appear to be living the lies.

 

[Meriweather]

An hour to escape from life? I don't live in a society that causes me to want to escape life.
I think you've just suggested the reason you go to church.

Absolutely. Spiritual renewal to be applied in daily living! Also to give thanks in worship. So, to me it is not escaping life, it is a pause for renewal of living the life given to us.

 

[Donald H]

Absolutely. Spiritual renewal to be applied in daily living! Also to give thanks in worship. So, to me it is not escaping life, it is a pause for renewal of living the life given to us.

As you suggested, it can be an escape for other churchgoers but not for you. You really sort of walked right into it that time Meri!

 

[Meriweather]

As you suggested, it can be an escape for other churchgoers but not for you. You really sort of walked right into it that time Meri!

Apparently with my eyes closed, as I still am not clear what I walked into! For me, Church is about thanksgiving and renewal of spirit. I remember hearing about a sign on a church that said something like, "Enter Here to Hear the Word of God" and "Leave Here to go Live the Word of God." That sums it up nicely for me.

 

[Donald H]

Apparently with my eyes closed, as I still am not clear what I walked into! For me, Church is about thanksgiving and renewal of spirit. I remember hearing about a sign on a church that said something like, "Enter Here to Hear the Word of God" and "Leave Here to go Live the Word of God." That sums it up nicely for me.

I have no doubt about your motives and no doubt about the motives of others who go to church to escape life for an hour.

Apparently you have no need to escape life and neither do I.

 

[Blues Man]

Shrinking congregations has brought the different sects together so that they can all sit under one roof ignoring their differences.

It's hypocrisy that works for the greater good.
And there's no doubt that the most comfortable interpretations of their bibles will eventually be adopted by all who attend. For example, living in the belly of a big fish can't possibly be chosen by the new mixed flock as the way forward. The literal believers will have to make some sacrifices to modern science.

So you're saying the bible is written by humans for humans and can be changed according to the whims of people.

 

[Red Front]

As we are not cookie stamps of one another, our religious differences are to be expected. While I dislike NATO as a bureaucracy, I do like the motto: An attack on one is an attack on all.

Certainly we can and should discuss the differences, all great faiths have them. For example a common saying is Two Jews, three opinions. Within the Catholic faith we see the same, so I am guessing it is much the same within every faith and every denomination.

On the other hand, division within Christianity annoys me. A lot. I see no reason why the division between Catholic and Orthodox needs to continue. Resolve it already.

How might other differences within the same faith be resolved? There are thousands of Christian denominations, four within Judaism, two within Islam. How can any of these divisions be resolved? Can we at least stop the attacks on each other?

It can't be resolved.

 

[Meriweather]

It can't be resolved.

Humans are capable of creating division, but not resolutions? I like to think we are more powerful than that.

 

[BreezeWood]

Humans are capable of creating division, but not resolutions? I like to think we are more powerful than that.

that does not make sense -

the creation is their resolution, to deny the appeal of the c-bible as written is to deny its resolution - meriweather - the enabler.

 

[Blues Man]

Humans are capable of creating division, but not resolutions? I like to think we are more powerful than that.

History seems to prove humans aren't very good at resolving things without bloodshed

 

[Donald H]

Humans are capable of creating division, but not resolutions? I like to think we are more powerful than that.

Resolutions are being found for the few that are stubbornly faithful.

A thousand Catholics from a big expensive church are coming together with a thousand from a Protestant big church, to become a hundred of the real believers in a humble little shack that serves well as a church.

There will always be Meriweathers with deep pockets who are still buying.

 

[Meriweather]

A thousand Catholics from a big expensive church are coming together with a thousand from a Protestant big church, to become a hundred

Two thousand come together to become a hundred? I may have missed a math class somewhere along the line.

 

[Donald H]

Two thousand come together to become a hundred? I may have missed a math class somewhere along the line.

You're smart enough to get the point my friend. Religions are combining in attempts to share the cost of running a church. It's happening faster in Canada but it's happening in America too.

Don't remind me of the big tent cultish gatherings of people wanting to get healed or saved on t.v. by a faker.

 

[Meriweather]

You're smart enough to get the point my friend. Religions are combining in attempts to share the cost of running a church. It's happening faster in Canada but it's happening in America too.

Of course I got your point, just as I know you know I could not resist a bit of teasing, too.

My point, of course, not about some breaking away from one, some from a second, and now we have a third. Why not two uniting to become one?