Downton Abbey

[Big Black Dog]

Some have said that Anna is annoying or Mary is annoying or Edith is annoying ...

What I've seen is their characters are well written and accurate for the time they lived in.

The scene by the side of the road, where (sorry, I'm terrible at remembering their names) the ex-chauffeur/Sybil's widowed husband helped Miss Bunting with her car. That was surprising because, in those days, women simply would not be out driving alone. Nor would they own a car because they would not have had money of their own with which to buy it.

Mary does have the responsibility of the estate's future riding on her shoulders. Anna would have been considered soiled goods by many and Edith being pregnant out of wedlock would have gotten her ostracized by many of her station.

Something that I found annoying was that Mary wasn't sure she would be loyal to Bates and keep the secret of the train tickets UNTIL after he saved the Prince of Wales from his own shenanigans. But, I suspect that attitude would also have been typical of the time.

In any event - the end of the season has the entire planet is in mourning.

Tom Branson. I do not like the school teacher, she's going to get him in big trouble with her curiosity.

Barrow is really getting gossipy but he needs to stick around just to give us something to hate. How about that little weasel Daisy? She was almost gleeful that Ivy asked to go to the states.

Daisy. A weasel? You're kidding, right? I like Daisy.

 

[Sarah G]

Some have said that Anna is annoying or Mary is annoying or Edith is annoying ...

I found Anna annoying because it was her naïve and frivolously playful conduct around Green that encouraged him and prompted what developed into forcible rape. Bates realized the implications of her receptive behavior and twice tried to snap her out of it. But she dismissed him. Then, having foolishly provoked the incident, she is critical of Bates' reaction and is bitching about it.

I don't find Edith annoying because she is the well-meaning victim of continuing misfortune.

Something that I found annoying was that Mary wasn't sure she would be loyal to Bates and keep the secret of the train tickets UNTIL after he saved the Prince of Wales from his own shenanigans. But, I suspect that attitude would also have been typical of the time.

That pretty much summarizes Mary's persona, which is innately aristocratic, self-serving, and the diametric opposite of Sybil and Edith.

Blaming the victim again? She didn't prompt him to violently attack her, you're nuts.

 

[HenryBHough]

I think Branson's ripe for a break but whether it might be with the leftist teacher or in flight from? Of course she may simply come a cropper and vanish. This smells like one of Fellowes subtle threats to cast members who are getting restless. Write the story in such a way that they can foresee any demands might be met by being shown the door.

Daisy? That girls not as stupid as she first seemed and may yet find herself with Alfred and in America.

We must watch negotiations for a sixth season. Whether or not there is to be one will make a big difference in what happens in the last three or four (more likely three) episodes of season five.

 

[Sarah G]

Some have said that Anna is annoying or Mary is annoying or Edith is annoying ...

What I've seen is their characters are well written and accurate for the time they lived in.

The scene by the side of the road, where (sorry, I'm terrible at remembering their names) the ex-chauffeur/Sybil's widowed husband helped Miss Bunting with her car. That was surprising because, in those days, women simply would not be out driving alone. Nor would they own a car because they would not have had money of their own with which to buy it.

Mary does have the responsibility of the estate's future riding on her shoulders. Anna would have been considered soiled goods by many and Edith being pregnant out of wedlock would have gotten her ostracized by many of her station.

Something that I found annoying was that Mary wasn't sure she would be loyal to Bates and keep the secret of the train tickets UNTIL after he saved the Prince of Wales from his own shenanigans. But, I suspect that attitude would also have been typical of the time.

In any event - the end of the season has the entire planet is in mourning.

Tom Branson. I do not like the school teacher, she's going to get him in big trouble with her curiosity.

Barrow is really getting gossipy but he needs to stick around just to give us something to hate. How about that little weasel Daisy? She was almost gleeful that Ivy asked to go to the states.

Daisy. A weasel? You're kidding, right? I like Daisy.

Oh she's a weasel alright. She still has Alfred on her mind and she wants Ivy gone just in case...

 

[Sarah G]

I think Branson's ripe for a break but whether it might be with the leftist teacher or in flight from? Of course she may simply come a cropper and vanish. This smells like one of Fellowes subtle threats to cast members who are getting restless. Write the story in such a way that they can foresee any demands might be met by being shown the door.

Daisy? That girls not as stupid as she first seemed and may yet find herself with Alfred and in America.

We must watch negotiations for a sixth season. Whether or not there is to be one will make a big difference in what happens in the last three or four (more likely three) episodes of season five.

What if there is a spinoff to the US part of the family? Wouldn't that be good?

 

[Starlight]

I thought maybe Bates went to London to kill the rapist, but that before he could do it,
another of the rapists victims husbands, killed him, or even another one of his victims.

 

[Sarah G]

I thought maybe Bates went to London to kill the rapist, but that before he could do it,
another of the rapists victims husbands, killed him, or even another one of his victims.

Now that would be convenient for Bates.

 

[HenryBHough]

What if there is a spinoff to the US part of the family? Wouldn't that be good?

Good potential in that.

Obstacles:

1. Fellowes couldn't write it. He is so good at what he does because so much of his knowledge is related to his personal place in life. Remember, he IS in The House of Lords. He has no direct insight into American "society".

2. PBS is not known for producing series all on its own. It partners with others. Both BBC and ITV have repeatedly entertained mini-series based on American themes but their few attempts have met with limited success.

On the other hand, Cora's mother did drop a hint when she spoke of "a cottage on Bellevue Avenue". That might have flown right past viewers (especially British ones) who have no idea of the implications of street names in Newport, Rhode Island. It could have been just a throw-away line - or perhaps it was meant to be more.

Were I to attempt to write part of the fifth or even sixth season I'd toy with Branson finding himself in America but accompanied by TWO children. His own and............ Then the question of who else might make the trip. And how MANY "who elses".

Chances of my writing any of it are slim to nil so you're safe.

 

[Sarah G]

What if there is a spinoff to the US part of the family? Wouldn't that be good?

Good potential in that.

Obstacles:

1. Fellowes couldn't write it. He is so good at what he does because so much of his knowledge is related to his personal place in life. Remember, he IS in The House of Lords. He has no direct insight into American "society".

2. PBS is not known for producing series all on its own. It partners with others. Both BBC and ITV have repeatedly entertained mini-series based on American themes but their few attempts have met with limited success.

On the other hand, Cora's mother did drop a hint when she spoke of "a cottage on Bellevue Avenue". That might have flown right past viewers (especially British ones) who have no idea of the implications of street names in Newport, Rhode Island. It could have been just a throw-away line - or perhaps it was meant to be more.

Were I to attempt to write part of the fifth or even sixth season I'd toy with Branson finding himself in America but accompanied by TWO children. His own and............ Then the question of who else might make the trip. And how MANY "who elses".

Chances of my writing any of it are slim to nil so you're safe.

Love Newport RI. I think it's too soon for speculation about Downton ending.

 

[HenryBHough]

Speculating beyond Downton.....

Let us hope the magic continues for one season beyond the currently projected five. But let's not get greedy. Time flows in the series as well as in real life and it's approaching a time where reality and skills diverge.

Think about some realities. BBC/ItV (British) interests and audiences argue against a "Granthams in America" series which causes some funding considerations. PBS does some production but the scale required seems unreasonable for them. But perhaps not for some American entity. Who? At one time I'd suggest A&E but not with their current management and programming. Perhaps HBO? Some dark-horses; Hulu might be one but Apple is about to launch a new "Apple TV" product and is exploring new avenues as did SONY when they branched out of making consumer electronics and into music then films. Wouldn't a great launch product for such an effort be an obvious Downton offshoot with as much of the original cast as possible?

OK, so what's in it for BBC? What's in it for PBS?

Money.

Somebody holds a lot of rights to the intellectual property itself. Fellows logically might own a pretty good chunk. If someone were willing to pay for those rights could any of the parties refuse? Perhaps Fellowes on creative grounds but he's not young and heirs might feel pressed for cash.

Now there's cash and incentive to cash in for an American producer. But not a traditional network. They're dying and have changed hands often enough that there's no money for anything of this scope.

A lot is going to depend on things external to Downton. How's the economy? What regulatory things might happen? Could a botched season 5 (more likely 6) kill the franchise?

What might the word "Viking" have to do with any of this? C'mon, toy with THAT!

 

[MikeK]

Some have said that Anna is annoying or Mary is annoying or Edith is annoying ...

What I've seen is their characters are well written and accurate for the time they lived in.

The scene by the side of the road, where (sorry, I'm terrible at remembering their names) the ex-chauffeur/Sybil's widowed husband helped Miss Bunting with her car. That was surprising because, in those days, women simply would not be out driving alone. Nor would they own a car because they would not have had money of their own with which to buy it.

Mary does have the responsibility of the estate's future riding on her shoulders. Anna would have been considered soiled goods by many and Edith being pregnant out of wedlock would have gotten her ostracized by many of her station.

Something that I found annoying was that Mary wasn't sure she would be loyal to Bates and keep the secret of the train tickets UNTIL after he saved the Prince of Wales from his own shenanigans. But, I suspect that attitude would also have been typical of the time.

In any event - the end of the season has the entire planet is in mourning.

Tom Branson. I do not like the school teacher, she's going to get him in big trouble with her curiosity.

Barrow is really getting gossipy but he needs to stick around just to give us something to hate. How about that little weasel Daisy? She was almost gleeful that Ivy asked to go to the states.

Daisy. A weasel? You're kidding, right? I like Daisy.

Women see these things very differently from men. (Vive le difference!)

I like Daisy, too. She reminds me of my youngest when they were kids. She was always at odds with her older sisters but stubbornly defended them with others.

 

[MikeK]

Some have said that Anna is annoying or Mary is annoying or Edith is annoying ...

I found Anna annoying because it was her naïve and frivolously playful conduct around Green that encouraged him and prompted what developed into forcible rape. Bates realized the implications of her receptive behavior and twice tried to snap her out of it. But she dismissed him. Then, having foolishly provoked the incident, she is critical of Bates' reaction and is bitching about it.

I don't find Edith annoying because she is the well-meaning victim of continuing misfortune.

Something that I found annoying was that Mary wasn't sure she would be loyal to Bates and keep the secret of the train tickets UNTIL after he saved the Prince of Wales from his own shenanigans. But, I suspect that attitude would also have been typical of the time.

That pretty much summarizes Mary's persona, which is innately aristocratic, self-serving, and the diametric opposite of Sybil and Edith.

Blaming the victim again? She didn't prompt him to violently attack her, you're nuts.

I'm not blaming the victim. You are simply refusing to acknowledge there are men who regard a woman's friendly playfulness as receptiveness to sexual overture. When such men are then rejected they either think they've been teased or they believe the woman "likes it rough." This is a very common rape scenario and it's too bad you're not aware of it.

If you have attractive daughters your attitude will leave them vulnerable. You need to understand that most men have one thing in mind when transacting with attractive women. That's not a crime. It's Nature. Some men translate a naïve woman's receptive response to their friendly advances as encouragement. When their advances are later rejected they get angry. And some will not take no for an answer.

This is exactly what happened in the Anna/Green situation.

 

[boedicca]

Tom Branson. I do not like the school teacher, she's going to get him in big trouble with her curiosity.

Barrow is really getting gossipy but he needs to stick around just to give us something to hate. How about that little weasel Daisy? She was almost gleeful that Ivy asked to go to the states.

Daisy. A weasel? You're kidding, right? I like Daisy.

Oh she's a weasel alright. She still has Alfred on her mind and she wants Ivy gone just in case...

That's not weaselly. Ivy was the one who jumped on the chance to go to the U.S. She didn't have to do it if she didn't want to. If Ivy had wanted Alfred, she had plenty of opportunities to bag him. She didn't. So, there is nothing wrong if Daisy does continue to harbor affection for him.

 

[boedicca]

I thought maybe Bates went to London to kill the rapist, but that before he could do it,
another of the rapists victims husbands, killed him, or even another one of his victims.

Or....Bates' first wife isn't really dead. The body was her long lost twin sister. The first wife is secretly stalking him and trying to set him up for murder, again.

 

[MikeK]

Speculating beyond Downton.....

Let us hope the magic continues for one season beyond the currently projected five. But let's not get greedy. Time flows in the series as well as in real life and it's approaching a time where reality and skills diverge.

Think about some realities. BBC/ItV (British) interests and audiences argue against a "Granthams in America" series which causes some funding considerations. PBS does some production but the scale required seems unreasonable for them. But perhaps not for some American entity. Who? At one time I'd suggest A&E but not with their current management and programming. Perhaps HBO? Some dark-horses; Hulu might be one but Apple is about to launch a new "Apple TV" product and is exploring new avenues as did SONY when they branched out of making consumer electronics and into music then films. Wouldn't a great launch product for such an effort be an obvious Downton offshoot with as much of the original cast as possible?

OK, so what's in it for BBC? What's in it for PBS?

Money.

Somebody holds a lot of rights to the intellectual property itself. Fellows logically might own a pretty good chunk. If someone were willing to pay for those rights could any of the parties refuse? Perhaps Fellowes on creative grounds but he's not young and heirs might feel pressed for cash.

Now there's cash and incentive to cash in for an American producer. But not a traditional network. They're dying and have changed hands often enough that there's no money for anything of this scope.

A lot is going to depend on things external to Downton. How's the economy? What regulatory things might happen? Could a botched season 5 (more likely 6) kill the franchise?

What might the word "Viking" have to do with any of this? C'mon, toy with THAT!

While I do respect your energetic analysis, how do you account for the sixty-eight episodes of Upstairs/Downstairs?

Downton Abbey is a winner. A very big winner. It can make a lot of money for some entity, whether PBS, the BBC, whomever or whatever. What remains now is negotiation.

 

[MikeK]

I think Branson's ripe for a break but whether it might be with the leftist teacher or in flight from? Of course she may simply come a cropper and vanish. This smells like one of Fellowes subtle threats to cast members who are getting restless. Write the story in such a way that they can foresee any demands might be met by being shown the door.

Daisy? That girls not as stupid as she first seemed and may yet find herself with Alfred and in America.

We must watch negotiations for a sixth season. Whether or not there is to be one will make a big difference in what happens in the last three or four (more likely three) episodes of season five.

What if there is a spinoff to the US part of the family? Wouldn't that be good?

The idea of bringing any aspect of Downton Abbey into a U.S. setting is analogous to adding cheeseburgers to a Chinese menu.

Downton Abbey takes us away to old England. Bring me back and I won't watch it anymore.

 

[HenryBHough]

Upstairs/Downstairs spaced the episodes differently. Between the most immediate two DA episodes more than a year elapsed. Were that to continue sixty-eight episodes would have the series predicting the future.

Nothing to say the spacing twixt programs could not be changed, so your point may be very valid.

Assuming that interval timing were adjusted then the next variable is Fellowes himself. I really think turning the writing over to someone else has disaster potential. Observe when there was a radical shift in directors between "episodes" of the Harry Potter movie series.

 

[Starlight]

I thought maybe Bates went to London to kill the rapist, but that before he could do it,
another of the rapists victims husbands, killed him, or even another one of his victims.

Or....Bates' first wife isn't really dead. The body was her long lost twin sister. The first wife is secretly stalking him and trying to set him up for murder, again.

That's a thought too, boedicca...could very well happen. She certainly hated him.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Assuming that interval timing were adjusted then the next variable is Fellowes himself. I really think turning the writing over to someone else has disaster potential. Observe when there was a radical shift in directors between "episodes" of the Harry Potter movie series.

Being as familiar with the series as you evidently are, do you believe you could collaborate competently on the writing staff of a new episode of Downton Abbey?

I believe you could.

There would need to be at least one knowledgeable Brit on staff to monitor language and technical accuracy, and at least one experienced screenwriter to manage time sequences, but you know all the characters and you have a thorough awareness of the Family's overall situation. And I can tell you are imaginative and interesting.

While it's true that Julian Fellowes created Downton Abbey, it's also true that while Chopin created Tristesse there are many who can play it at least as well as he.

 

[Sarah G]

I found Anna annoying because it was her naïve and frivolously playful conduct around Green that encouraged him and prompted what developed into forcible rape. Bates realized the implications of her receptive behavior and twice tried to snap her out of it. But she dismissed him. Then, having foolishly provoked the incident, she is critical of Bates' reaction and is bitching about it.

I don't find Edith annoying because she is the well-meaning victim of continuing misfortune.



That pretty much summarizes Mary's persona, which is innately aristocratic, self-serving, and the diametric opposite of Sybil and Edith.

Blaming the victim again? She didn't prompt him to violently attack her, you're nuts.

I'm not blaming the victim. You are simply refusing to acknowledge there are men who regard a woman's friendly playfulness as receptiveness to sexual overture. When such men are then rejected they either think they've been teased or they believe the woman "likes it rough." This is a very common rape scenario and it's too bad you're not aware of it.

If you have attractive daughters your attitude will leave them vulnerable. You need to understand that most men have one thing in mind when transacting with attractive women. That's not a crime. It's Nature. Some men translate a naïve woman's receptive response to their friendly advances as encouragement. When their advances are later rejected they get angry. And some will not take no for an answer.

This is exactly what happened in the Anna/Green situation.

You are wrong. I let you get away with it once because you said I misunderstood your position but I didn't misunderstand a second time. Women do not intice men to this kind of violence by being fun and friendly. That is just ignorant on your part.

There is short circuiting in a rapist's brain that tells him it's ok because she seemed to him to be welcoming it. His advances are not sexual and she isn't asking for what he is interested in. It's violence, everyone knows that.

These days, women tell. Back then, they faced your kind of archaic mindset so that made them afraid to. They felt that they caused it to happen as it were men who ran everything and put this thought into their heads. The women knew she would have zero support because she allowed herself to laugh, have fun, be flirtateous.

Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong and you were blaming the victim.