Does Obama have a "real" jobs plan or just more govt spending?

[Jarhead]

When someone is on a temporary job, their spending habits are different than when they are on a permanent job.

So hiring them for a temoproary job will drastically slow down economic growth.

And their spending habits are different with a temp job than no job at all. Right? Which do you think is better for recovery?

Actually, no. They are identical. Someone without a job spends the little he has...be it unemployment, food stamps, welfare, lonas from family. They spend as little as they can. So do people with temporary jobs. So it will do nothing to stimulate the economy by giving them temporary jobs.

It is best to push the rpivate secotr to hire them permanently...and that is what policy needs to be geared to.

Except, policy has been like that for a decade and still no major hiring. How much more cash do companies need before they start hiring?

They dont need more cash..they need the threat of LESS cash to be off the table. And besides....there was plenty of hiring over the past decade. You look at net jobs.....you cant...you need to look at jobs that were lost by technology, (all of us complain that we can never get a human on the pohone anymore), increase in employee pool due to longer life span, l;ater retirement age and increase in population...yet the unemployment numbers did not change...of course, until the recession

You may disagree with me....thats fine....but my info comes from my career...not Fox News.....so you can debate me if you want....you are certainly worthy of it...an intelligent approach....I like that........but I happen to really know this shit.

 

[CMike]

You're the one who didn't seem to get it.

Now, do you suppose you could get those high school graduate pseudoeconomist conservative talk radio hosts like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck to stop constantly talking down the economy which only serves to ratchet up the fear level in their listeners? I ask because it their constant drumbeat of fear only manages to be counterproductive to an economic recovery when people don't feel confident enough to spend any money seeing as how our whole economy is based on consumer spending.

My business is down dramatically and you seem to think all my customers are ditto heads? Your really not here with us in the real world are you?

YOUR JUST AN IDIOT WHO WILL PLACE BLAME ANYWHERE BUT ON OBAMA

He has options, he just chooses not to do them for ideological reasons.

I'm perfectly happy to lay blame where it belongs.

I can blame Bush 43 for spending like a drunk while cutting revenues and fighting two wars and passing Medicare part D, all of which were never paid for and for also turning his back on regulating the financial industry because he didn't believe in regulation.

I can blame Clinton, and the Republicans, and big business, (and the Chamber of Commerce, for that matter) for rushing headlong into NAFTA and the WTO without truly understanding the longterm implications which have sent American jobs and capital overseas.

I can blame corporate America for turning its back on the USA in favor of overseas profits AND overseas markets. Personally, I think many of them have their eyes on China and India as new and FAR bigger markets than America ever was because they now believe that China and India are now primed and ready to not only be cheap labor, but to be their future primary customers.

I can blame the US financial masters of the universe for screwing up the economy with credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations.

I can blame the easy credit that Alan Greenspan made all too available because of his naïveté that markets would ultimately be self-correcting which didn't take into account human greed.

And I can blame the current crop of Republican House members who

A. don't know shit about economics.
B. would rather see Obama fail then help get America back on track while he's president.

I can even blame the Internet for making it possible to export jobs which require advanced education like radiologists (after all, any qualified doctor can read a PET scan just as well in India as in Boston).

But most of what's now happening ain't Obama's fault. He's just a very convenient scapegoat because he's the current president. Any president, regardless of party, would undoubtedly be the focal point for Americans' anger at our current economic misery. But because Obama is a Democrat, he gets beat up by countless conservative talk radio hosts EVERY day as if he was the single source of everything that's wrong with the American economy. He isn't.

Edit to add: I almost forgot a big villain in our current economic mess. And it's ironic too. That villain is all those credit ratings bureaus like S&P and Moody's. They gave AAA ratings to all those derivitives even though they were essentially terrible investments with high risk. And why did they do that? Maybe someone should ask that question to Alan Greenspan. But everyone knows the answer. It's because they got PAID to do it just like Arthur Anderson got paid to give Enron a clean bill of health when it came to their financial statements. It's ironic that S&P has now downgraded US treasuries considering how complicit they are in helping to cause the financial collapse in the first place. They were the enablers.

This country's success depends on Obama's agenda failing.

 

[Jarhead]

My business is down dramatically and you seem to think all my customers are ditto heads? Your really not here with us in the real world are you?

YOUR JUST AN IDIOT WHO WILL PLACE BLAME ANYWHERE BUT ON OBAMA

He has options, he just chooses not to do them for ideological reasons.

I'm perfectly happy to lay blame where it belongs.

I can blame Bush 43 for spending like a drunk while cutting revenues and fighting two wars and passing Medicare part D, all of which were never paid for and for also turning his back on regulating the financial industry because he didn't believe in regulation.

I can blame Clinton, and the Republicans, and big business, (and the Chamber of Commerce, for that matter) for rushing headlong into NAFTA and the WTO without truly understanding the longterm implications which have sent American jobs and capital overseas.

I can blame corporate America for turning its back on the USA in favor of overseas profits AND overseas markets. Personally, I think many of them have their eyes on China and India as new and FAR bigger markets than America ever was because they now believe that China and India are now primed and ready to not only be cheap labor, but to be their future primary customers.

I can blame the US financial masters of the universe for screwing up the economy with credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations.

I can blame the easy credit that Alan Greenspan made all too available because of his naïveté that markets would ultimately be self-correcting which didn't take into account human greed.

And I can blame the current crop of Republican House members who

A. don't know shit about economics.
B. would rather see Obama fail then help get America back on track while he's president.

I can even blame the Internet for making it possible to export jobs which require advanced education like radiologists (after all, any qualified doctor can read a PET scan just as well in India as in Boston).

But most of what's now happening ain't Obama's fault. He's just a very convenient scapegoat because he's the current president. Any president, regardless of party, would undoubtedly be the focal point for Americans' anger at our current economic misery. But because Obama is a Democrat, he gets beat up by countless conservative talk radio hosts EVERY day as if he was the single source of everything that's wrong with the American economy. He isn't.

Edit to add: I almost forgot a big villain in our current economic mess. And it's ironic too. That villain is all those credit ratings bureaus like S&P and Moody's. They gave AAA ratings to all those derivitives even though they were essentially terrible investments with high risk. And why did they do that? Maybe someone should ask that question to Alan Greenspan. But everyone knows the answer. It's because they got PAID to do it just like Arthur Anderson got paid to give Enron a clean bill of health when it came to their financial statements. It's ironic that S&P has now downgraded US treasuries considering how complicit they are in helping to cause the financial collapse in the first place. They were the enablers.

This country's success depends on Obama's agenda failing.

his agenda will offer short term results with long term nothing...so I certainly see where you are coming from.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You're the one who didn't seem to get it.

Now, do you suppose you could get those high school graduate pseudoeconomist conservative talk radio hosts like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck to stop constantly talking down the economy which only serves to ratchet up the fear level in their listeners? I ask because it their constant drumbeat of fear only manages to be counterproductive to an economic recovery when people don't feel confident enough to spend any money seeing as how our whole economy is based on consumer spending.

My business is down dramatically and you seem to think all my customers are ditto heads? Your really not here with us in the real world are you?

YOUR JUST AN IDIOT WHO WILL PLACE BLAME ANYWHERE BUT ON OBAMA

He has options, he just chooses not to do them for ideological reasons.

I'm perfectly happy to lay blame where it belongs.

I can blame Bush 43 for spending like a drunk while cutting revenues and fighting two wars and passing Medicare part D, all of which were never paid for and for also turning his back on regulating the financial industry because he didn't believe in regulation.

I can blame Clinton, and the Republicans, and big business, (and the Chamber of Commerce, for that matter) for rushing headlong into NAFTA and the WTO without truly understanding the longterm implications which have sent American jobs and capital overseas.

I can blame corporate America for turning its back on the USA in favor of overseas profits AND overseas markets. Personally, I think many of them have their eyes on China and India as new and FAR bigger markets than America ever was because they now believe that China and India are now primed and ready to not only be cheap labor, but to be their future primary customers.

I can blame the US financial masters of the universe for screwing up the economy with credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations.

I can blame the easy credit that Alan Greenspan made all too available because of his naïveté that markets would ultimately be self-correcting which didn't take into account human greed.

And I can blame the current crop of Republican House members who

A. don't know shit about economics.
B. would rather see Obama fail then help get America back on track while he's president.

I can even blame the Internet for making it possible to export jobs which require advanced education like radiologists (after all, any qualified doctor can read a PET scan just as well in India as in Boston).

But most of what's now happening ain't Obama's fault. He's just a very convenient scapegoat because he's the current president. Any president, regardless of party, would undoubtedly be the focal point for Americans' anger at our current economic misery. But because Obama is a Democrat, he gets beat up by countless conservative talk radio hosts EVERY day as if he was the single source of everything that's wrong with the American economy. He isn't.

Edit to add: I almost forgot a big villain in our current economic mess. And it's ironic too. That villain is all those credit ratings bureaus like S&P and Moody's. They gave AAA ratings to all those derivitives even though they were essentially terrible investments with high risk. And why did they do that? Maybe someone should ask that question to Alan Greenspan. But everyone knows the answer. It's because they got PAID to do it just like Arthur Anderson got paid to give Enron a clean bill of health when it came to their financial statements. It's ironic that S&P has now downgraded US treasuries considering how complicit they are in helping to cause the financial collapse in the first place. They were the enablers.

So, you blame EVERYONE from the last 15 years EXCEPT OBAMA.

I was right, you are indeed an IDIOT.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Govt jobs a lot of times are a complete waste of our tax dollars. Here where I live they are repaving all the streets in our neighborhood. Thing is, there was nothing wrong with them to begin with. Likewise, they are digging up perfectly good sidewalks just to widen them.

There is a tremendous amount of waste in so called govt jobs.

That would be a real way to cut spending.

Get rid of waste and fraud. Incorporate proper audits.

Oh for the love of...seriously Sallow? really??
Proper audits?
No disrespect intended...but that is delusional. In every conceivable way, in every conceivable venture public programs cost tremendously more than private...including when they hire private companies to do the work...in fact ESPECIALLY when they hire private companies.
The thing you are leaving out is the government makes decisions for political reasons - NOT - practical reasons.
Perhaps you missed the whole high speed rail saga playing out in multiple states but especially California...amazing...and I mean AMAZING waste and fraud...and you want to expand this across the nation?
Man

 

[DontBeStupid]

Your right! We've had 9% unemployment for near a decade now!

The word you want is "you're".

Bush holds the record for longest and WEAKEST period of job growth. To claim his policies were working is dishonest. People were spending money by using their homes as ATMs. That's the only reason we had any economic growth.

 

[kwc57]

You're the one who didn't seem to get it.

Now, do you suppose you could get those high school graduate pseudoeconomist conservative talk radio hosts like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck to stop constantly talking down the economy which only serves to ratchet up the fear level in their listeners? I ask because it their constant drumbeat of fear only manages to be counterproductive to an economic recovery when people don't feel confident enough to spend any money seeing as how our whole economy is based on consumer spending.

My business is down dramatically and you seem to think all my customers are ditto heads? Your really not here with us in the real world are you?

YOUR JUST AN IDIOT WHO WILL PLACE BLAME ANYWHERE BUT ON OBAMA

He has options, he just chooses not to do them for ideological reasons.

You DO realize, don't you, that the financial crash of 2008 was the biggest economic hit that America and the world has suffered since the great depression?

In medical parlance, it wasn't an economic head cold; It was economic pneumonia. That means that recovery is going to take a long time.

And Dr Obama's remedy is to dose the patient with more pneumonia. Good call!

 

[Jarhead]

Your right! We've had 9% unemployment for near a decade now!

The word you want is "you're".

Bush holds the record for longest and WEAKEST period of job growth. To claim his policies were working is dishonest. People were spending money by using their homes as ATMs. That's the only reason we had any economic growth.

you ignoired my post several down responding to you.
Bush did NOT have the weakest job growth. That is a talking point based on invalid numbers.
I will break it down for you...

Boolean search engines replaced thousands of research personnel
Touch tone auto response replaced thousands of customer service reps
international expansion and relocation of US companies emiminated thousands of US jobs
Voice mail eliminated thousands of receptionists
Advanced compouter graphics eliminated thousands of secretaries and graphics personnel
Email eliminated thousands of mailroom personnel
the bursting of the dot com bubble eliminated thousands of jobs
Increase in population
Later average retirement age

yet...

Unemployment stayed within the 5% range all along...

There were many of jobs created...when, in fact, technology eliminated just as many.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Where does this magic money come from? You do realize that we currently borrow 40 cents on every tax dollar from China to finance the gubmint as it currently stands don't you? Are you going to borrow even more money or just tax the working folks even more?

Yup. And you realize interest rates are at historic lows, right? If we can borrow at 2% and grow at 4%, why wouldn't we want to do that?

Obama dreams we could grow at 4%.

If Obama borrowed $600B and spent it on a real jobs program, GDP would grow by 4% just from that. That's basic math. The interest on that debt would be $12B a year for 10 years and we would get almost $9B of that just in the increase in tax revenue. Add in the drop in spending from not paying for unemployment and not paying for health care for the unemployed and we come out ahead.

And you DON'T want to do this. Why?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Your right! We've had 9% unemployment for near a decade now!

The word you want is "you're".

Bush holds the record for longest and WEAKEST period of job growth. To claim his policies were working is dishonest. People were spending money by using their homes as ATMs. That's the only reason we had any economic growth.

link?

 

[Jarhead]

Yup. And you realize interest rates are at historic lows, right? If we can borrow at 2% and grow at 4%, why wouldn't we want to do that?

Obama dreams we could grow at 4%.

If Obama borrowed $600B and spent it on a real jobs program, GDP would grow by 4% just from that. That's basic math. The interest on that debt would be $12B a year for 10 years and we would get almost $9B of that just in the increase in tax revenue. Add in the drop in spending from not paying for unemployment and not paying for health care for the unemployed and we come out ahead.

And you DON'T want to do this. Why?

becuase you can not make "real jobs" just happen.

It sounds good, but it isnt realistic.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Your right! We've had 9% unemployment for near a decade now!

The word you want is "you're".

Bush holds the record for longest and WEAKEST period of job growth. To claim his policies were working is dishonest. People were spending money by using their homes as ATMs. That's the only reason we had any economic growth.

THANKS FOR THE GRAMMAR GRADE TOOL.

I'm on an EVO phone and it enters punctuation as well as what it thinks I'm trying to spell automatically. I'll be sure to call the developers and inform them of your ground breaking discovery. Until then shove your attitude in some one else's face.

 

[kwc57]

Where does this magic money come from? You do realize that we currently borrow 40 cents on every tax dollar from China to finance the gubmint as it currently stands don't you? Are you going to borrow even more money or just tax the working folks even more?

Yup. And you realize interest rates are at historic lows, right? If we can borrow at 2% and grow at 4%, why wouldn't we want to do that?

Your IF is a mighty big keyword

 

[kwc57]

You're the one who didn't seem to get it.

Now, do you suppose you could get those high school graduate pseudoeconomist conservative talk radio hosts like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck to stop constantly talking down the economy which only serves to ratchet up the fear level in their listeners? I ask because it their constant drumbeat of fear only manages to be counterproductive to an economic recovery when people don't feel confident enough to spend any money seeing as how our whole economy is based on consumer spending.

My business is down dramatically and you seem to think all my customers are ditto heads? Your really not here with us in the real world are you?

YOUR JUST AN IDIOT WHO WILL PLACE BLAME ANYWHERE BUT ON OBAMA

He has options, he just chooses not to do them for ideological reasons.

I'm perfectly happy to lay blame where it belongs.

I can blame Bush 43 for spending like a drunk while cutting revenues and fighting two wars and passing Medicare part D, all of which were never paid for and for also turning his back on regulating the financial industry because he didn't believe in regulation.

I can blame Clinton, and the Republicans, and big business, (and the Chamber of Commerce, for that matter) for rushing headlong into NAFTA and the WTO without truly understanding the longterm implications which have sent American jobs and capital overseas.

I can blame corporate America for turning its back on the USA in favor of overseas profits AND overseas markets. Personally, I think many of them have their eyes on China and India as new and FAR bigger markets than America ever was because they now believe that China and India are now primed and ready to not only be cheap labor, but to be their future primary customers.

I can blame the US financial masters of the universe for screwing up the economy with credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations.

I can blame the easy credit that Alan Greenspan made all too available because of his naïveté that markets would ultimately be self-correcting which didn't take into account human greed.

And I can blame the current crop of Republican House members who

A. don't know shit about economics.
B. would rather see Obama fail then help get America back on track while he's president.

I can even blame the Internet for making it possible to export jobs which require advanced education like radiologists (after all, any qualified doctor can read a PET scan just as well in India as in Boston).

But most of what's now happening ain't Obama's fault. He's just a very convenient scapegoat because he's the current president. Any president, regardless of party, would undoubtedly be the focal point for Americans' anger at our current economic misery. But because Obama is a Democrat, he gets beat up by countless conservative talk radio hosts EVERY day as if he was the single source of everything that's wrong with the American economy. He isn't.

Edit to add: I almost forgot a big villain in our current economic mess. And it's ironic too. That villain is all those credit ratings bureaus like S&P and Moody's. They gave AAA ratings to all those derivitives even though they were essentially terrible investments with high risk. And why did they do that? Maybe someone should ask that question to Alan Greenspan. But everyone knows the answer. It's because they got PAID to do it just like Arthur Anderson got paid to give Enron a clean bill of health when it came to their financial statements. It's ironic that S&P has now downgraded US treasuries considering how complicit they are in helping to cause the financial collapse in the first place. They were the enablers.

Didn't you deride someone earlier for using "talking points"? Wow!

 

[kwc57]

Your right! We've had 9% unemployment for near a decade now!

The word you want is "you're".

Bush holds the record for longest and WEAKEST period of job growth. To claim his policies were working is dishonest. People were spending money by using their homes as ATMs. That's the only reason we had any economic growth.

THANKS FOR THE GRAMMAR GRADE TOOL.

I'm on an EVO phone and it enters punctuation as well as what it thinks I'm trying to spell automatically. I'll be sure to call the developers and inform them of your ground breaking discovery. Until then shove your attitude in some one else's face.

See, imverystoopid just created a job!

 

[DontBeStupid]

Unemployment stayed within the 5% range all along...

There were many of jobs created...when, in fact, technology eliminated just as many.

Except of course, that what you just wrote is completely false.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Jan 2001 - 4.2% unemployment
Jan 2005 - 5.3% unemployment
Dec 2008 - 7.3% unemployment

 

[Jarhead]

Unemployment stayed within the 5% range all along...

There were many of jobs created...when, in fact, technology eliminated just as many.

Except of course, that what you just wrote is completely false.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Jan 2001 - 4.2% unemployment
Jan 2005 - 5.3% unemployment
Dec 2008 - 7.3% unemployment

is that really your response?

You include the numbers from a recession and financial crash?

I thought we were talking about the bush cuts and other policies and how they did or did not create jobs..

And you throw in the 2008 collapse to call me a liar?

I guess I was wrong when I said I appreciated your approach. You are nothing but another "I want to win, not have a fair debate" asshole on this site.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Unemployment stayed within the 5% range all along...

There were many of jobs created...when, in fact, technology eliminated just as many.

Except of course, that what you just wrote is completely false.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Jan 2001 - 4.2% unemployment
Jan 2005 - 5.3% unemployment
Dec 2008 - 7.3% unemployment

is that really your response?

You include the numbers from a recession and financial crash?

I thought we were talking about the bush cuts and other policies and how they did or did not create jobs..

And you throw in the 2008 collapse to call me a liar?

I guess I was wrong when I said I appreciated your approach. You are nothing but another "I want to win, not have a fair debate" asshole on this site.

Those are the actual dates and actual numbers from Bush's Presidency. If you think that by using actual dates and numbers this makes me an asshole, then why don't you tell us what dates and numbers we should be using.

Oh, but that would make this an actual discussion, wouldn't it? And somehow, I don't think you want that.

 

[Jarhead]

Except of course, that what you just wrote is completely false.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Jan 2001 - 4.2% unemployment
Jan 2005 - 5.3% unemployment
Dec 2008 - 7.3% unemployment

is that really your response?

You include the numbers from a recession and financial crash?

I thought we were talking about the bush cuts and other policies and how they did or did not create jobs..

And you throw in the 2008 collapse to call me a liar?

I guess I was wrong when I said I appreciated your approach. You are nothing but another "I want to win, not have a fair debate" asshole on this site.

Those are the actual dates and actual number from Bush's Presidency. If you think that by using actual dates and numbers this makes me an asshole, then why don't you tell us what dates and numbers we should be using.

Oh, but that would make this an actual discussion, wouldn't it? And somehow, I don't think you want that.

and I said 5%...and it was as low as 4.3%...and hovered around 5% until the recession.

Forget it.

You just want to be right...not see if you are wrong.

Cool.

Learn nothing.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Where does this magic money come from? You do realize that we currently borrow 40 cents on every tax dollar from China to finance the gubmint as it currently stands don't you? Are you going to borrow even more money or just tax the working folks even more?

Yup. And you realize interest rates are at historic lows, right? If we can borrow at 2% and grow at 4%, why wouldn't we want to do that?

Your IF is a mighty big keyword

It was an IF/THEN statement.

The 10 year bond interest rate right now is 2%.