Do you favor smaller government?

[Stashman]

Corporate capture of the Federal gov't predates Citizens United. Halliburton's business dropped off years before that decision. Even if you bar corporate speech, those who profit from the corporations, individuals, will speak for them.

Cooperation's should have a voice because business is a big part of our economy. However, they should not have any right to contribute to campaigns directly as we are seeing today. The outcome of the vote should never come down to who out pays the politicians. That's the way it is today, and that's one of the reasons we are in this mess today.

It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. You guys gather up the support for the Constitutional amendment barring corporate campaign funding, and I'll support it. But the corporations will still have a voice. Goldman Sachs will still short our entire country when it profits them. McDonnell Douglas will still sell us more aircraft than we should ever need. GE will pay very little in taxes (except maybe to China), and the oil companies will get massive tax breaks.

We were all warned of this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY]‪Eisenhower warns us of the military industrial complex.‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Two Thumbs]

I oppose the death penalty, but I'm not getting your reasoning on that one. Punishing criminals is big government? Explain. Even libertarians support having a penal system.

I said nothing about punishment.

Giving the government the power to decide who lives and dies is big government.

Government runs our penal system, something even libertarians support. Our choices are anarchy or big government. Gotcha.

Ravi is just trolling you. She's running down a list of talking points and saying it's all big government.





I you support obama, you support big government. kept Gitmo, resigned the Patriot Act, kept DOMA, and has vastly increased the powers of the TSA well passed Constitutional limits.

 

[kaz]

If you oppose a woman's right to choose, you are for big government.

I am pro choice....but for those that oppose it...it does not mean larger government if abortions were illegal.
The same state agency that enforces any laws, would enforce that one....and it would not require any more people to do so.

So you are being silly with your little "if you oppose, you are for big government" crap.

I look forward to the day that you actually engage in a debate...

Ravi's view is that any choice to reduce government is a choice about government and therefore it's actually big government to reduce government. I really hope she's hot or you know who's paying her bills...

 

[Ravi]

I said nothing about punishment.

Giving the government the power to decide who lives and dies is big government.

Government runs our penal system, something even libertarians support. Our choices are anarchy or big government. Gotcha.

Ravi is just trolling you. She's running down a list of talking points and saying it's all big government.





I you support obama, you support big government. kept Gitmo, resigned the Patriot Act, kept DOMA, and has vastly increased the powers of the TSA well passed Constitutional limits.

Supporting the death penalty is the ultimate condoning of big government. That's not a troll. That is a fact.

 

[kaz]

I you support obama, you support big government

Opposing Obama's big government too, right Ravi?

 

[Ravi]

Fail!

I forgot to make this poll public.

A little help from a friendly neighborhood moderator please?

The fail is that most people didn't understand your post.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Government runs our penal system, something even libertarians support. Our choices are anarchy or big government. Gotcha.

Ravi is just trolling you. She's running down a list of talking points and saying it's all big government.





I you support obama, you support big government. kept Gitmo, resigned the Patriot Act, kept DOMA, and has vastly increased the powers of the TSA well passed Constitutional limits.

Supporting the death penalty is the ultimate condoning of big government. That's not a troll. That is a fact.

Actually states have that right.

Not big gov, just a fact.



If you support any arms laws, you support big government.

 

[kaz]

Supporting the death penalty is the ultimate condoning of big government. That's not a troll. That is a fact.

Government can't decide to give you the death penalty, only a jury can. Same with sending someone to prison. Have you read the Bill of Rights? Search for the term "trial by jury"... Again I oppose the death penalty, but that it's "big government" as opposed to any other penal sentence is just retard.

 

[manifold]

If you support obama, you support big government. kept Gitmo, resigned the Patriot Act, kept DOMA, and has vastly increased the powers of the TSA well passed Constitutional limits.

If you support any current candidate for president besides Ron Paul, you support big government.

 

[Ravi]

I always find it amusing, but at times also annoying, that so many posters here claim to favor small government ideals and then turn around and support authoritarian legislation and policies. So, for those of you who claim to favor smaller government, and have the courage to have that claim scrutinized, please vote yes in the poll for all to see. As for the rest of you, if you would be so kind, please dig up as many examples of posts by these yes voters (starting with me) that stand in contradiction to their alleged claim of favoring smaller government.

Some just want smaller government because they don't want to pay for anything that doesn't directly benefit them. Most people though, at least want efficient government. The real question is how efficient is our government. In many areas, it is very efficient. In others, not so much. Despite the argument to the contrary by conservatives, Medicare is very efficient, especially when compared to private health insurance. The Post Office is fairly efficient despite losing money. However, we know there is massive waste in many programs. The military comes to mind when I think of wasteful spending. Not that spending on the military is wasteful, but we all have heard the stories of waste in the military budget with proven examples. We also have a number of programs that seem to overlap each other. That is not efficient.

So for me, it's not a matter of bigger or smaller government, it's a matter of efficient government. In many cases, I think programs could be run at the local level rather than through the federal government. Case in point is education. Do we really need a Dept of Education? How many billions are spent and what is the return? Why not let each state handle their own education issues? They are already set up to do so, so why send money to Washington to spend on education, then see a large percentage of it be wasted, just to basically return the unwasted money back to the states anyway?

Funny that you bring up the Post Office. I've noticed that most people that mail important papers or checks to our company use FedEx overnight and pay through the nose when a stamp gets it there in a reasonable amount of time for pennies and with the same relative chance of it arriving.

 

[manifold]

Fail!

I forgot to make this poll public.

A little help from a friendly neighborhood moderator please?

The fail is that most people didn't understand your post.

I was only referring to my failure, not the vast, ongoing, epic hypocrisy fail perpetrated by so many alleged small government conservatives who post here. But point taken.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I always find it amusing, but at times also annoying, that so many posters here claim to favor small government ideals and then turn around and support authoritarian legislation and policies. So, for those of you who claim to favor smaller government, and have the courage to have that claim scrutinized, please vote yes in the poll for all to see. As for the rest of you, if you would be so kind, please dig up as many examples of posts by these yes voters (starting with me) that stand in contradiction to their alleged claim of favoring smaller government.

I favor smarter government, not necessarily smaller government. One example offers a reason. Homeland Security. The Department increased the size of the Federal Government enormously. Have they stopped another massive terrorist attack? Hard to prove if they have; have they done some very stupid searches? I think all Americans have read or heard of several.

Local agencies already existed with proven excellence in law enforcement, why make a new agency which needed whole new policies and a massive new management structure? A national police agency ought to concern both conservatives and liberals.

 

[kaz]

I favor smarter government

Good luck with that...

 

[Ravi]

Supporting the death penalty is the ultimate condoning of big government. That's not a troll. That is a fact.

Government can't decide to give you the death penalty, only a jury can. Same with sending someone to prison. Have you read the Bill of Rights? Search for the term "trial by jury"... Again I oppose the death penalty, but that it's "big government" as opposed to any other penal sentence is just retard.

I'm so sorry. I never realized that you were retarded. I will do my best to keep that in mind if I ever interact with you again.

 

[Sallow]

Anyone that supports the death penalty is not for smaller government.

I oppose the death penalty, but I'm not getting your reasoning on that one. Punishing criminals is big government? Explain. Even libertarians support having a penal system.

It sure as heck is..

 

[Valerie]

If you oppose a woman's right to choose, you are for big government.

I am pro choice....but for those that oppose it...it does not mean larger government if abortions were illegal.
The same state agency that enforces any laws, would enforce that one....and it would not require any more people to do so.

So you are being silly with your little "if you oppose, you are for big government" crap.

I look forward to the day that you actually engage in a debate...

I look forward to the day when you can actually grasp a concept. Big Government being the one in question, today.

Yes, "Big Government" is not just about how many people are in an agency or how much money it would require to enforce laws, it is about the POWER we give to the government over the INDIVIDUAL citizen.

 

[manifold]

kaz' retarded logic goes something like this...

If the government outlawed wearing baseball caps in public, and sent people to jail for violating the law, it wouldn't be an example of big government because even libertarians support having a penal system.

 

[kaz]

Anyone that supports the death penalty is not for smaller government.

I oppose the death penalty, but I'm not getting your reasoning on that one. Punishing criminals is big government? Explain. Even libertarians support having a penal system.

It sure as heck is..

Having a penal system is big government. If I actually were for small government then I'd advocate not punishing criminals, they would walk the street. That's your standard for someone who supports small government, they have to oppose having a legal system. The mental discipline of the left, sharp as tacks. What a rational argument.

 

[kaz]

kaz' retarded logic goes something like this...

If the government outlawed wearing baseball caps in public, and sent people to jail for violating the law, it wouldn't be an example of big government because even libertarians support having a penal system.

Isn't it a little early in the day to be boozing?

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

I always find it amusing, but at times also annoying, that so many posters here claim to favor small government ideals and then turn around and support authoritarian legislation and policies. So, for those of you who claim to favor smaller government, and have the courage to have that claim scrutinized, please vote yes in the poll for all to see. As for the rest of you, if you would be so kind, please dig up as many examples of posts by these yes voters (starting with me) that stand in contradiction to their alleged claim of favoring smaller government.

Some just want smaller government because they don't want to pay for anything that doesn't directly benefit them. Most people though, at least want efficient government. The real question is how efficient is our government. In many areas, it is very efficient. In others, not so much. Despite the argument to the contrary by conservatives, Medicare is very efficient, especially when compared to private health insurance. The Post Office is fairly efficient despite losing money. However, we know there is massive waste in many programs. The military comes to mind when I think of wasteful spending. Not that spending on the military is wasteful, but we all have heard the stories of waste in the military budget with proven examples. We also have a number of programs that seem to overlap each other. That is not efficient.

So for me, it's not a matter of bigger or smaller government, it's a matter of efficient government. In many cases, I think programs could be run at the local level rather than through the federal government. Case in point is education. Do we really need a Dept of Education? How many billions are spent and what is the return? Why not let each state handle their own education issues? They are already set up to do so, so why send money to Washington to spend on education, then see a large percentage of it be wasted, just to basically return the unwasted money back to the states anyway?

Funny that you bring up the Post Office. I've noticed that most people that mail important papers or checks to our company use FedEx overnight and pay through the nose when a stamp gets it there in a reasonable amount of time for pennies and with the same relative chance of it arriving.

I had noticed the same; however I concluded that it was a control effort on the senders' part to not offer the funds sooner than required or last minute document preparation.