Do you favor smaller government?

[Dr.Drock]

End the Drug War, slash all budgets, slash all government programs, slash the military, and on and on and on.

If you would stand against any of those principles being enacted, you're standing on the side of big government.

 

[Si modo]

National defense is convered in the Constitution.

So we either have prisons or get Roman or muslim on our criminals.

We have a penal system (prison system, specifically) which does much worse than nothing. We incarcerate too many for too long in an evironment where violence is the norm and not an aberration. We then release them into society, many angry and with little or no skills or supervision.

Most come from a environment full of violence and have no skills, and are already angry.

It's up to them to get skills and education, that's not on society or the prison system.

So do you choose the Roman or muslim way of dealing with criminals, since you don't support the prison system?

I don't want to speak for Wry, but I don't get the impression that he doesn't support the penal system. I do get the impression that he believes that our current penal system has a lot of scary aspects to it and is looking for improvements to those scary aspects.

 

[Kuros]

End the Drug War, slash all budgets, slash all government programs, slash the military, and on and on and on.

If you would stand against any of those principles being enacted, you're standing on the side of big government.

^
This

Only drastic measures in the face of the current crisis . . . any other proposal would be radical.

 

[shintao]

I always find it amusing, but at times also annoying, that so many posters here claim to favor small government ideals and then turn around and support authoritarian legislation and policies. So, for those of you who claim to favor smaller government, and have the courage to have that claim scrutinized, please vote yes in the poll for all to see. As for the rest of you, if you would be so kind, please dig up as many examples of posts by these yes voters (starting with me) that stand in contradiction to their alleged claim of favoring smaller government.

I favor smaller government, as long as that includes chopping the umbilical cord to corporations & the Pentagon & the rich, opening the constitution & making changes to the document that gives direct power to the people to fund whatever causes they wish to support.

To do so would require a special political party force to exert control over congress. I call that party the All Volunteer Government party, as outlined here......

All Volunteer Government Party (AVGP)

 

[kwc57]

No.

Not unless we shrink the population and the size of the country.

One has nothing to do with the other unless you think the gubmint exists for the purpose of confiscating wealth from the producers to give to the moochers.

 

[Sallow]

Having a penal system is not big government. How we run it is.
We have far to many unconstitutional laws that we put people in jail for, so many that it's hard to grasp how we even manage to keep it controled at all.

Well..we could have a penal system that does nothing. That would be smaller government.

uhm

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

no fair, you edited while I'll was replying.

Agreeing.

You made a lucid point. But I am pretty sure you don't know how it was lucid.

 

[Sallow]

No.

Not unless we shrink the population and the size of the country.

One has nothing to do with the other unless you think the gubmint exists for the purpose of confiscating wealth from the producers to give to the moochers.

You really post this?

Seriously?



Oh gosh.

 

[kwc57]

I'm a libertarian that favors smaller gubmint and don't think you'll find any posts I've made that will contradict my beliefs.

 

[kwc57]

No.

Not unless we shrink the population and the size of the country.

One has nothing to do with the other unless you think the gubmint exists for the purpose of confiscating wealth from the producers to give to the moochers.

You really post this?

Seriously?



Oh gosh.

Yep, sure did in response to your idiotic thought that to have a smaller government means we have to scale back our population and the size of the country. A leaner meaner government has nothing to do with how big of a land mass we have or how many people are in it.

 

[Sallow]

One has nothing to do with the other unless you think the gubmint exists for the purpose of confiscating wealth from the producers to give to the moochers.

You really post this?

Seriously?



Oh gosh.

Yep, sure did in response to your idiotic thought that to have a smaller government means we have to scale back our population and the size of the country. A leaner meaner government has nothing to do with how big of a land mass we have or how many people are in it.

Okay..

Give ya a real life problem.

A labor dispute at a coal mine starts. The workers are looking for safer conditions and more pay..the management says operating costs are to high and he can't cover the costs.

Labor organizes and goes on strike. The boss hires thugs to go round up the organizers and has them beat up. Labor responds by beating up the thugs. This goes back and forth for awhile and the town's power plant has to shut down because they are not getting coal. People start to freeze to death.

You are the mayor of the town.

What do you do?

 

[Sallow]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg]‪Cricket Sound‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Sallow]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFEY9RIRJA&feature=related]‪Cricket Chirping‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Si modo]

‪Cricket Sound‬‏ - YouTube

Usually someone gives more than five minutes before taking the 'crickets' route.

ETA: or even three minutes.

 

[Jarhead]

You really post this?

Seriously?



Oh gosh.

Yep, sure did in response to your idiotic thought that to have a smaller government means we have to scale back our population and the size of the country. A leaner meaner government has nothing to do with how big of a land mass we have or how many people are in it.

Okay..

Give ya a real life problem.

A labor dispute at a coal mine starts. The workers are looking for safer conditions and more pay..the management says operating costs are to high and he can't cover the costs.

Labor organizes and goes on strike. The boss hires thugs to go round up the organizers and has them beat up. Labor responds by beating up the thugs. This goes back and forth for awhile and the town's power plant has to shut down because they are not getting coal. People start to freeze to death.

You are the mayor of the town.

What do you do?

I would have had the thugs arrested beforer the labor responds by the beating.

But as for the rest of it......so you are saying federal intervention is necessary when we have unions.

Hmmm.....

 

[Sallow]

‪Cricket Sound‬‏ - YouTube

Usually someone gives more than five minutes before taking the 'crickets' route.

ETA: or even three minutes.

Oh.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=084BPuOgzVM&feature=related]‪Cicada Song‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

This better?

 

[Dr.Drock]

You really post this?

Seriously?



Oh gosh.

Yep, sure did in response to your idiotic thought that to have a smaller government means we have to scale back our population and the size of the country. A leaner meaner government has nothing to do with how big of a land mass we have or how many people are in it.

Okay..

Give ya a real life problem.

A labor dispute at a coal mine starts. The workers are looking for safer conditions and more pay..the management says operating costs are to high and he can't cover the costs.

Labor organizes and goes on strike. The boss hires thugs to go round up the organizers and has them beat up. Labor responds by beating up the thugs. This goes back and forth for awhile and the town's power plant has to shut down because they are not getting coal. People start to freeze to death.

You are the mayor of the town.

What do you do?

You have police go there, arrest everyone who's fighting and let the court decide which individuals are guilty/innocent.

Then if the owner of the coal plant finds workers who will work for what the other laborers won't and do a good job, hire them, if he can't find such workers, work out a deal with them.

Nothing else is necessary.

 

[Sallow]

Yep, sure did in response to your idiotic thought that to have a smaller government means we have to scale back our population and the size of the country. A leaner meaner government has nothing to do with how big of a land mass we have or how many people are in it.

Okay..

Give ya a real life problem.

A labor dispute at a coal mine starts. The workers are looking for safer conditions and more pay..the management says operating costs are to high and he can't cover the costs.

Labor organizes and goes on strike. The boss hires thugs to go round up the organizers and has them beat up. Labor responds by beating up the thugs. This goes back and forth for awhile and the town's power plant has to shut down because they are not getting coal. People start to freeze to death.

You are the mayor of the town.

What do you do?

I would have had the thugs arrested beforer the labor responds by the beating.

But as for the rest of it......so you are saying federal intervention is necessary when we have unions.

Hmmm.....

Who would arrest them?

 

[Sallow]

Yep, sure did in response to your idiotic thought that to have a smaller government means we have to scale back our population and the size of the country. A leaner meaner government has nothing to do with how big of a land mass we have or how many people are in it.

Okay..

Give ya a real life problem.

A labor dispute at a coal mine starts. The workers are looking for safer conditions and more pay..the management says operating costs are to high and he can't cover the costs.

Labor organizes and goes on strike. The boss hires thugs to go round up the organizers and has them beat up. Labor responds by beating up the thugs. This goes back and forth for awhile and the town's power plant has to shut down because they are not getting coal. People start to freeze to death.

You are the mayor of the town.

What do you do?

You have police go there, arrest everyone who's fighting and let the court decide which individuals are guilty/innocent.

Then if the owner of the coal plant finds workers who will work for what the other laborers won't and do a good job, hire them, if he can't find such workers, work out a deal with them.

Nothing else is necessary.

Police? A court? Work out a "deal"?

Isn't that big government? And interferring with an internal business decision?

 

[kaz]

If it was up to me, you can drink whenever you like. Unlike you, I honestly support smaller government.

I want to have a legal system, which you concluded means I support the right of government to send people for jail for wearing baseball caps. Is this another stupid argument or do you know what you're talking about this time?

Here is the line of thinking:

The DP often requires special housing for those sentenced to death, ie. 'death row'. => more government (special digs for the ones waiting for death, separate guards, etc.)

A sentence of death gets an automatic appeal => more government (court time, court workers' time, defense attorneys, prosecutors, etc.)

Carrying out the DP requires a special room => more government.

Carrying out the DP requires special personnel => more government.




See?

I agree with you on that, but it isn't what they argued. They just argued having a death sentence was big government.

Actually I oppose the death penalty basically for this reason. The only way to end what has become a protracted process would be to have the people overwhelmingly support ending it and that's not going to happen. I don't think the death penalty is immoral in itself, but I see no rational way to do it that is effective and consistent and if it's arbitrary and more expensive then a lifetime in jail then it's pointless and we shouldn't have it. Though from a legal standpoint I think it's a State choice for State crimes. It's like abortion, I'm pro-choice, but again it's a State debate not a federal one.

 

[Si modo]

‪Cricket Sound‬‏ - YouTube

Usually someone gives more than five minutes before taking the 'crickets' route.

ETA: or even three minutes.

Oh.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=084BPuOgzVM&feature=related]‪Cicada Song‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

This better?

Oh, I see. Caffeine issues.