Do you believe in rehabilitation?

[Cuyo]

I think most people will agree that rehabilitation is real and does happen. The real question is if you think criminals should be permitted the opportunity to try, or simply punished for their crime.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The OP poll is too simplistic.
It depends on the crime.
Violent crimes, particularly sexually violent crimes - no, there is no rehabilitating a sexual predator and there is no rehabilitating someone who murders someone else in cold blood.

 

[Skull Pilot]

R.D., what do you expect to happen when a man is repeatedly a chance to work an honest job and improve his condition the right way? Look beyond your emotions and consider the broader sociological impact of people like skull and the policies they advocate.

I'm not emotional at all.

You claim because someone exercises his right not to hire a convict he is the problem .. You also made the leap that the poor poor convict will be reduced by this guys choice to attempted murder and it won't be the convicts fault, he is a victim of someone else. Puh-leese.

If the world was full of Skull Pilots and a man wasn't allowed to earn an honest paycheck, what do you expect he will do? Starve?

Tell you what, you risk everything you own to start a business and then hire a bunch of ex cons to work for you. That's your choice just don't come crying to me when you get robbed blind.

And every criminal had the chance to earn an honest paycheck but instead they chose to break the law. So now I should give them more chances when they fucked up from day one? I don't think so.

 

[Anachronism]

I think most people will agree that rehabilitation is real and does happen. The real question is if you think criminals should be permitted the opportunity to try, or simply punished for their crime.

The JUSTICE System should simply be about punishing these people for their crimes. That's what we need to get back to. If they can rehab themselves in an Alcatraz-style facility, or afterwards (if their crime allows for them to ever re-enter society) so be it, but I do not want my tax dollars going to attempt to rehab people instead of punishing them.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I do but it is extended up until 7th grade after that behavior is habitual with few exceptions.

 

[Sallow]

Our entire criminal justice/social service system is in failure; as usual prejudice (not necessarily racial) is the cause. The effect is a huge waste of money and humanity.

Elected officials/policy makers are the root cause of this failure and hope for rational non-political change has been piecemeal forever.

The solution is, in my not so humble opinion, the carrot and the stick.

Early intervention is a must; we can reduce crime and the cost of prisons twenty years from now, but the public wants and the policy makers promise immediate solutions. I'm going to withhold my ideas until later; first let the prejudices I noted be aired; then and only then a rational debate might be had.

Our prison systems are hate factories that encourage criminality..pure and simple.

 

[Flopper]

Do we or do we not believe in rehabilitation? This should be the question at the root of all of our law and order discussions. This question would resolve all sorts of problems within our legal system, and would take all the questions out of sentecing. Rehabilitation should reflect our societal stance, perhaps a vote is in order? There is no point in saying you believe in rehabilitation and then holding past deeds against someone. For example, would you hire someone who has been convicted for embezzlement to work as a bank teller?, hire someone with a DUI as a driver?, or someone with an assault to work as a customer service representative?

I believe that as a society we don't believe in rehabilitation, and the proof is in our actions. The sexual predator list is a perfect example, followed by the non hireing of the embezzler, and DUI driver. Even the calls made to victims when their assailant is released; all of these prove that we don't believe in rehabilitation. There is nothing wrong with not believing in rehabilitation, or believing in rehabilitation. We just need to get consistant in our application of justice.

If we believe that criminals cannot be rehabilitated then why are we letting them out of prison? This would mean that we need to keep them locked up for life, costing us millions. It would seem that execution would be the logical step for criminals (all criminals of every crime), as we don't believe in rehabilitation.

If we do believe that they can be rehabilitated, then we need to start acting accordingly. Start by ending the sexual predator lists, and restrictions against these people as to where they can work and live. End the death penalty. End the calls to victims. Remove from applications the question, "have you ever been convicted of a crime?"

I hate hypocrites, and we are the most hypocritical society ever when it comes to our justice system. We need to decide once and for all, because the money spent on being indecisive is breaking the bank.

So the poll question is? Do you believe in rehabilitation?

Like a lot of issues in society, people have conflicting views. So maybe half the people believe prisons should rehabilitate but the rest believe prisons are there to punish so we have a half ass approach to the problem.

It's really all based on what you believe. Is crime a social illness that we seek to cure or is it a sin that we should punish? A conservative is most likely to believe in punishment. A liberal is more likely to believe in rehabilitation. I don't think either one works very well.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Our entire criminal justice/social service system is in failure; as usual prejudice (not necessarily racial) is the cause. The effect is a huge waste of money and humanity.

Elected officials/policy makers are the root cause of this failure and hope for rational non-political change has been piecemeal forever.

The solution is, in my not so humble opinion, the carrot and the stick.

Early intervention is a must; we can reduce crime and the cost of prisons twenty years from now, but the public wants and the policy makers promise immediate solutions. I'm going to withhold my ideas until later; first let the prejudices I noted be aired; then and only then a rational debate might be had.

Our prison systems are hate factories that encourage criminality..pure and simple.

Yeah god forbid those poor misunderstood criminals who victimize innocents feel any discomfort at all.

 

[Flopper]

There are 4 reason to put criminals in prison:
1. To extract revenge.
2. To separate the criminal from society so he cannot commit more crimes against society.
3. To punish the criminal, so fear of prison will deter further criminal acts.
4. To rehabilitate so the person will have both the will and the means to change his life.

Revenge may bring some comfort to the victim or society but changes nothing.
Since the average criminal spends less than 5 years in prison, separation is a temporary solution.
I think punishment works for some and rehabilitation works for others. The key is classification, determining what is most likely to keep the person from repeating his crimes. The problem is that this approach runs counter to what most people believe about crime and punishment,"you do the deed, you do the time" and "eye for eye and a tooth for tooth".

 

[Skull Pilot]

Rehabilitation is the responsibility of the individual.

Sorry folks but my heart does not bleed for a fucking criminal.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Frighteningly, I agree with Wry. I already did a thread about what I think we should do. For the record, I think the poll gives this a 'one thing or the other' attitude towards rehabilitation, which it is not. Some people can be rehabilitated, others cannot. So, I believe in rehabilitation, but am realistic enough to know that some people are beyond help.

Yup I think we should have a 2 tier prison system.

At sentencing a decision is made as to whether the convicted is a possibility to rehabilitate. If yes he goes to a minimum security prison DESIGNED to rehabilitate him. If no he goes to max security with no frills to serve out his PUNISHMENT.

 

[Flopper]

Rehabilitation is the responsibility of the individual.

Sorry folks but my heart does not bleed for a fucking criminal.

Rehabilitation has nothing to do with feeling sorry for the person but has everything to do with reducing crime.

People are happy that some little punk was sent off to prison for his crime and fail to realize the he will probably be back on the streets in 5 years or less, smarter, and pissed at society. Most of our prison don't rehabilitate. They just turn out smarter criminals.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Rehabilitation is the responsibility of the individual.

Sorry folks but my heart does not bleed for a fucking criminal.

Rehabilitation has nothing to do with feeling sorry for the person but has everything to do with reducing crime.

People are happy that some little punk was sent off to prison for his crime and fail to realize the he will probably be back on the streets in 5 years or less, smarter, and pissed at society. Most of our prison don't rehabilitate. They just turn out smarter criminals.

The answer to that is to keep criminals in prison longer then.

Tell me why should some asshole criminal who victimizes an innocent person be able to get a free college education or job training or whatever paid for in part by the person he victimized?

I'll save my concern for those who were the victims of criminals.

 

[JBeukema]

Skull doesn't care about the victims. He creates more victims.

 

[R.D.]

R.D., what do you expect to happen when a man is repeatedly a chance to work an honest job and improve his condition the right way? Look beyond your emotions and consider the broader sociological impact of people like skull and the policies they advocate.

I'm not emotional at all.

You claim because someone exercises his right not to hire a convict he is the problem .. You also made the leap that the poor poor convict will be reduced by this guys choice to attempted murder and it won't be the convicts fault, he is a victim of someone else. Puh-leese.

If the world was full of Skull Pilots and a man wasn't allowed to earn an honest paycheck, what do you expect he will do? Starve?

The world is not so why pretend that is relevant?

 

[JBeukema]

Skull, if you really cared about the victims, you'd set your own anger and blind ideology aside and support programs aimed at rehabilitation. You'd look past your own bigotry and judge people as individuals when they came looking for work, instead of applying a blanket view that nobody convicted of a crime should be allowed to earn an honest dollar- you'd be willing to give them a chance instead of driving them back to criminality. You'd care about possible future victims and seek to make lasting changes for the good of everyone.

The truth is you don't care about the victims. You care only about petty revenge.

 

[Flopper]

Rehabilitation is the responsibility of the individual.

Sorry folks but my heart does not bleed for a fucking criminal.

Rehabilitation has nothing to do with feeling sorry for the person but has everything to do with reducing crime.

People are happy that some little punk was sent off to prison for his crime and fail to realize the he will probably be back on the streets in 5 years or less, smarter, and pissed at society. Most of our prison don't rehabilitate. They just turn out smarter criminals.

The answer to that is to keep criminals in prison longer then.

Tell me why should some asshole criminal who victimizes an innocent person be able to get a free college education or job training or whatever paid for in part by the person he victimized?

I'll save my concern for those who were the victims of criminals.

Recently I read of a young kid on drugs who robbed a cab driver at gun point. He bashed the driver in the face and stole about $100. He was arrested, tried, convicted and sentence to 10 years for armed robbery.

Put aside your sympathy for the taxi driver who will carry a scar for life and the kid that has ruined his life and consider the costs. This kid who stole a hundred dollars is costing the tax payer over $330,000. Pew Research finds the cost of prison is $29,000/year. For a non-capital offenses, the average cost of arrest, detention, and trial is $40,000.

We can't afford to throw away the key and we can't afford to have these people repeating these crimes.

Cost of locking up Americans too high: Pew study | Reuters

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull, if you really cared about the victims, you'd set your own anger and blind ideology aside and support programs aimed at rehabilitation. You'd look past your own bigotry and judge people as individuals when they came looking for work, instead of applying a blanket view that nobody convicted of a crime should be allowed to earn an honest dollar- you'd be willing to give them a chance instead of driving them back to criminality. You'd care about possible future victims and seek to make lasting changes for the good of everyone.

The truth is you don't care about the victims. You care only about petty revenge.

So now it's bigotry to call a criminal a criminal?

And I judge people by their actions and anyone who will victimize or brutalize an innocent deserves to be judged and quite frankly does not deserve to benefit from my tax dollars. If we're going to be giving free education on the taxpayers dime, I'd rather see it go to the kids of military families whose parents were KIA rather than some piece of shit criminal.

And I'll ask you again if you risked everything you own to start a business would you hire a bunch of criminals to run it for you or would you choose people who have honestly worked their whole lives instead of preying on innocent victims?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Rehabilitation has nothing to do with feeling sorry for the person but has everything to do with reducing crime.

People are happy that some little punk was sent off to prison for his crime and fail to realize the he will probably be back on the streets in 5 years or less, smarter, and pissed at society. Most of our prison don't rehabilitate. They just turn out smarter criminals.

The answer to that is to keep criminals in prison longer then.

Tell me why should some asshole criminal who victimizes an innocent person be able to get a free college education or job training or whatever paid for in part by the person he victimized?

I'll save my concern for those who were the victims of criminals.

Recently I read of a young kid on drugs who robbed a cab driver at gun point. He bashed the driver in the face and stole about $100. He was arrested, tried, convicted and sentence to 10 years for armed robbery.

Put aside your sympathy for the taxi driver who will carry a scar for life and the kid that has ruined his life and consider the costs. This kid who stole a hundred dollars is costing the tax payer over $330,000. Pew Research finds the cost of prison is $29,000/year. For a non-capital offenses, the average cost of arrest, detention, and trial is $40,000.

We can't afford to throw away the key and we can't afford to have these people repeating these crimes.

Cost of locking up Americans too high: Pew study | Reuters

Our prisons are obviously too nice then. Prisoners should work 12 hours a day to pay for their own upkeep. There should be no cable TV, no weights, no free college just hard labor 7 days a week.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

In order to be rehabilitated one has to be habilitated to begin with.