Do you believe in rehabilitation?

[editec]

In order to be rehabilitated one has to be habilitated to begin with.

LOL!

That is quite true, Lonestar.

You cannot make silk purse out of a sow's ear.

But most people aren't in prison for violent crime, anymore. (60% are in the system for the crime of trafficing drugs...their crime is capitalism!)

So I'm not sure most of America's prisoner actually need rehabilitation to begin with.

Of course living in a sociopathic paradise of prison is likely to make then really need it after they get out.

But this society doesn't reward people who ARE good law abiding citizens, so we're not bloody likely to want to spend much dough on people who've been in the system.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

In order to be rehabilitated one has to be habilitated to begin with.

LOL!

That is quite true, Lonestar.

You cannot make silk purse out of a sow's ear.

But most people aren't in prison for violent crime, anymore. (60% are in the system for the crime of trafficing drugs...their crime is capitalism!)

So I'm not sure most of America's prisoner actually need rehabilitation to begin with.

Of course living in a sociopathic paradise of prison is likely to make then really need it after they get out.

But this society doesn't reward people who ARE good law abiding citizens, so we're not bloody likely to want to spend much dough on people who've been in the system.

How much time did you do in prison?

 

[Cecilie1200]

In order to be rehabilitated one has to be habilitated to begin with.

LOL!

That is quite true, Lonestar.

You cannot make silk purse out of a sow's ear.

But most people aren't in prison for violent crime, anymore. (60% are in the system for the crime of trafficing drugs...their crime is capitalism!)

So I'm not sure most of America's prisoner actually need rehabilitation to begin with.

Of course living in a sociopathic paradise of prison is likely to make then really need it after they get out.

But this society doesn't reward people who ARE good law abiding citizens, so we're not bloody likely to want to spend much dough on people who've been in the system.

How much time did you do in prison?

Where do these idiots get these stupid numbers, anyway? The Bureau of Justice Statistics tells us that well over half of all inmates serving a sentence of a year or more in prison are there for violent offenses. Drug offenses total just slightly more than property offenses.

Now, granted, that's state jurisdiction, but federal prisons ALSO do not have "60%" drug offenses, so even if you factored them in, you certainly wouldn't have the majority of prison inmates in the United States being there for drug offenses.

I can only assume that Ed, like most of the halfwits on this board, is getting his "facts" from blogs instead of looking for reliable sources.

 

[FuelRod]

Not when it comes to the criminal justice system no.
An exception would be what California Girl posts above in dealing with juvenile offenders.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

LOL!

That is quite true, Lonestar.

You cannot make silk purse out of a sow's ear.

But most people aren't in prison for violent crime, anymore. (60% are in the system for the crime of trafficing drugs...their crime is capitalism!)

So I'm not sure most of America's prisoner actually need rehabilitation to begin with.

Of course living in a sociopathic paradise of prison is likely to make then really need it after they get out.

But this society doesn't reward people who ARE good law abiding citizens, so we're not bloody likely to want to spend much dough on people who've been in the system.

How much time did you do in prison?

Where do these idiots get these stupid numbers, anyway? The Bureau of Justice Statistics tells us that well over half of all inmates serving a sentence of a year or more in prison are there for violent offenses. Drug offenses total just slightly more than property offenses.

Now, granted, that's state jurisdiction, but federal prisons ALSO do not have "60%" drug offenses, so even if you factored them in, you certainly wouldn't have the majority of prison inmates in the United States being there for drug offenses.

I can only assume that Ed, like most of the halfwits on this board, is getting his "facts" from blogs instead of looking for reliable sources.

Actually I think halfwits like Ed pull those numbers out of their ass.

Having been incarcerated I can tell you that 90 percent of those that I was locked up with claimed they were innocent, regardless of their charges. As for myself? I was guilty as hell and I wasn't locked up on any drug related charges.

 

[jillian]

Our entire criminal justice/social service system is in failure; as usual prejudice (not necessarily racial) is the cause. The effect is a huge waste of money and humanity.

Elected officials/policy makers are the root cause of this failure and hope for rational non-political change has been piecemeal forever.

The solution is, in my not so humble opinion, the carrot and the stick.

Early intervention is a must; we can reduce crime and the cost of prisons twenty years from now, but the public wants and the policy makers promise immediate solutions. I'm going to withhold my ideas until later; first let the prejudices I noted be aired; then and only then a rational debate might be had.

I agree with you.

I'd also add that we need to stop criminalizing drugs. It is costing us a fortune and to no avail. Prisons should be for real crimes... not smoking or selling some weed.

 

[FuelRod]

Yes but do you draw the line with the cheeba? Cocaine? Heroine? Meth?

 

[JBeukema]

Having been incarcerated I can tell you that 90 percent of those that I was locked up with claimed they were innocent

I had the opposite experience

 

[jillian]

Yes but do you draw the line with the cheeba? Cocaine? Heroine? Meth?

other countries have had no problem legalizing certain drugs and requiring addicts to register when they use others. that allows government to control the flow of drugs; allows it to be a taxable commodity; and gets drug users out of our prisons.

so i'm not sure where the line should be drawn, but i'm pretty sure that it shouldn't be drawn where it is now.

 

[FuelRod]

I agree with you on the prohibition against Marijuana.
Any harsher and/or manufactured narcotics I am not so sure.

 

[JBeukema]

the flip side of that, Jill, is the Opiate epidemics that swept China and the US and the rates of crime associated with addiction

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yes but do you draw the line with the cheeba? Cocaine? Heroine? Meth?

other countries have had no problem legalizing certain drugs and requiring addicts to register when they use others. that allows government to control the flow of drugs; allows it to be a taxable commodity; and gets drug users out of our prisons.

so i'm not sure where the line should be drawn, but i'm pretty sure that it shouldn't be drawn where it is now.

And what country is comaprable in size and scope to the US?

 

[JBeukema]

Yes but do you draw the line with the cheeba? Cocaine? Heroine? Meth?

other countries have had no problem legalizing certain drugs and requiring addicts to register when they use others. that allows government to control the flow of drugs; allows it to be a taxable commodity; and gets drug users out of our prisons.

so i'm not sure where the line should be drawn, but i'm pretty sure that it shouldn't be drawn where it is now.

And what country is comaprable in size and scope to the US?

Is not the USA just a federation of States, some of which are comparable to European nations? It it works in Portugal, why not in New England and Pennsylvania? Then why not in Texas, California, or Massachusetts?

I saw we put it back in the hands of the States and let them decide how they want to handle it. The Fed can focus on preventing drugs from coming across the borders same as they're supposed to handle all imported and exported goods and secure our national borders.


All in favour?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

other countries have had no problem legalizing certain drugs and requiring addicts to register when they use others. that allows government to control the flow of drugs; allows it to be a taxable commodity; and gets drug users out of our prisons.

so i'm not sure where the line should be drawn, but i'm pretty sure that it shouldn't be drawn where it is now.

And what country is comaprable in size and scope to the US?

Is not the USA just a federation of States, some of which are comparable to European nations? It it works in Portugal, why not in New England and Pennsylvania? Then why not in Texas, California, or Massachusetts?

I saw we put it back in the hands of the States and let them decide how they want to handle it. The Fed can focus on preventing drugs from coming across the borders same as they're supposed to handle all imported and exported goods and secure our national borders.


All in favour?

So you're comparing states to countries. Nice spin.

 

[JBeukema]

You deny that the States were to and should maintain a certain level of autonomy?

 

[JamesInFlorida]

I believe in rehab for victimless crimes. There's no reason why the taxpayers should have to pay for drug addicts (not dealers), to remain in prison for in some cases long periods of time.

We pay so much money towards drug offenses that just by creating rehab (for 1st time, maybe 2nd time offenders), you'd save the taxpayers a lot of money. Not the mention the extremely expensive war on drugs-which isn't working.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You deny that the States were to and should maintain a certain level of autonomy?

No, I'm saying it's not a good comparison.

 

[Flopper]

The answer to that is to keep criminals in prison longer then.

Tell me why should some asshole criminal who victimizes an innocent person be able to get a free college education or job training or whatever paid for in part by the person he victimized?

I'll save my concern for those who were the victims of criminals.

Recently I read of a young kid on drugs who robbed a cab driver at gun point. He bashed the driver in the face and stole about $100. He was arrested, tried, convicted and sentence to 10 years for armed robbery.

Put aside your sympathy for the taxi driver who will carry a scar for life and the kid that has ruined his life and consider the costs. This kid who stole a hundred dollars is costing the tax payer over $330,000. Pew Research finds the cost of prison is $29,000/year. For a non-capital offenses, the average cost of arrest, detention, and trial is $40,000.

We can't afford to throw away the key and we can't afford to have these people repeating these crimes.

Cost of locking up Americans too high: Pew study | Reuters

Our prisons are obviously too nice then. Prisoners should work 12 hours a day to pay for their own upkeep. There should be no cable TV, no weights, no free college just hard labor 7 days a week.

Amenities for inmates is a very small part of the cost maintaining prisons. They aren't there to coddle prisoners. They are there to help improve the operation of the prison. Most of the work done in prisons, cleaning, cooking, and laundries, are done by the inmates. Amenities are used as a reward and a means of controlling the inmates. Without some amenities, prisons would be more dangerous and expensive to operate.

 

[AmericanMade76]

Even if they seek and receive help from Christ, they still need to pay for their sins on earth. It's just the Lord's way.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Recently I read of a young kid on drugs who robbed a cab driver at gun point. He bashed the driver in the face and stole about $100. He was arrested, tried, convicted and sentence to 10 years for armed robbery.

Put aside your sympathy for the taxi driver who will carry a scar for life and the kid that has ruined his life and consider the costs. This kid who stole a hundred dollars is costing the tax payer over $330,000. Pew Research finds the cost of prison is $29,000/year. For a non-capital offenses, the average cost of arrest, detention, and trial is $40,000.

We can't afford to throw away the key and we can't afford to have these people repeating these crimes.

Cost of locking up Americans too high: Pew study | Reuters

Our prisons are obviously too nice then. Prisoners should work 12 hours a day to pay for their own upkeep. There should be no cable TV, no weights, no free college just hard labor 7 days a week.

Amenities for inmates is a very small part of the cost maintaining prisons. They aren't there to coddle prisoners. They are there to help improve the operation of the prison. Most of the work done in prisons, cleaning, cooking, and laundries, are done by the inmates. Amenities are used as a reward and a means of controlling the inmates. Without some amenities, prisons would be more dangerous and expensive to operate.

You've never been in prison or you would know that what you say not absolutely true. First of all the convicts pretty much run the prison, the guards job is to keep them confined behind prison walls and not get killed in the process.