Do you believe in rehabilitation?

[High_Gravity]

Sorry but i don't give second chances to criminals.

You can rehabilitate all you want but I will never have a criminal work for me. They can't be trusted. Period.

This is part of the problem, so why are we letting them out of prison than? if someone comes out of prison and really wants to stay straight how can they do it if no one is willing to give them a chance? we are pushing them right back into a life of crime.

 

[spectrumc01]

Not saying TCAP initiated inappropriate contact, I'm saying, that isn't their job. A news organization actively making news is not a "news" organization at all.

 

[Anachronism]

This is part of the problem, so why are we letting them out of prison than? if someone comes out of prison and really wants to stay straight how can they do it if no one is willing to give them a chance? we are pushing them right back into a life of crime.

Why should they be getting out of prison in the first place, HG? Especially those who have felonies, violent crimes, or moral crimes on their records. Our prison system is little more than Graduate School for criminals. A low-level criminal goes in and generally comes out a better criminal than he went in most of the time.

These individuals made their choice when they decided to step outside the boundaries of proper society. Once you step off that narrow path it is very difficult for people to believe you won't do it again. For good reason, generally.

 

[High_Gravity]

This is part of the problem, so why are we letting them out of prison than? if someone comes out of prison and really wants to stay straight how can they do it if no one is willing to give them a chance? we are pushing them right back into a life of crime.

Why should they be getting out of prison in the first place, HG? Especially those who have felonies, violent crimes, or moral crimes on their records. Our prison system is little more than Graduate School for criminals. A low-level criminal goes in and generally comes out a better criminal than he went in most of the time.

These individuals made their choice when they decided to step outside the boundaries of proper society. Once you step off that narrow path it is very difficult for people to believe you won't do it again. For good reason, generally.

I agree our prison system now is a failure,but I believe people can change. Right now the way things are sets the people who come out of prison for failure, just look at the posts in this thread for proof. Nobody wants to hire them, so even if they really have changed no one gives them a chance, so you are correct what is the point of letting them out?

 

[editec]

I believe its possible to rehibilitate people.

I don't think prisons are especially good at it, though.

In fact I think more people come out of prison FUBAR than come out reformed.

Put me in prison and I'm pretty sure I'd come out the other side a true monster.

 

[High_Gravity]

I believe its possible to rehibilitate people.

I don't think prisons are especially good at it, though.

In fact I think more people come out of prison FUBAR than come out reformed.

Put me in prison and I'm pretty sure I'd come out the other side a true monster.

You have to become a monster to survive, unless you want to end up dead or sucking a gangbangers dick for your whole stay in prison.

 

[R.D.]

R.D., what do you expect to happen when a man is repeatedly a chance to work an honest job and improve his condition the right way? Look beyond your emotions and consider the broader sociological impact of people like skull and the policies they advocate.

I'm not emotional at all.

You claim because someone exercises his right not to hire a convict he is the problem .. You also made the leap that the poor poor convict will be reduced by this guys choice to attempted murder and it won't be the convicts fault, he is a victim of someone else. Puh-leese.

 

[Anachronism]

I agree our prison system now is a failure,but I believe people can change. Right now the way things are sets the people who come out of prison for failure, just look at the posts in this thread for proof. Nobody wants to hire them, so even if they really have changed no one gives them a chance, so you are correct what is the point of letting them out?

Yes, people CAN change. The problem is that most of them AREN'T going to change. Then things like this happen....

Fred goes to jail for car theft. In prison he gets rehabilitated and earns his auto tech certification. I'm a kind hearted guy so I hire Fred after he gets out of prison. I send him for some more training at my expense, but he agrees to pay the cost back over time. Then, during the 3 weeks we're shut down in July (for my summer vacation), Fred falls on some financial hard-times because he's not real good at managing money. He doesn't want to, but he only knows one other way to get $$$. He agrees to scope out a few cars for a friend. They get caught and he ends up being charged as an accessory to GTA. He goes back to jail, and I'm out a worker and the time/money I spent to train him rather than the nice kid from the local Vo-Tech school who doesn't have a criminal record.

For the most part hiring these criminals is a losing proposition. Heck, in the office I currently work in, the Government doesn't allow anyone with a criminal record to even work in this part of our building. We have to undergo a security screening once a year.

 

[High_Gravity]

I agree our prison system now is a failure,but I believe people can change. Right now the way things are sets the people who come out of prison for failure, just look at the posts in this thread for proof. Nobody wants to hire them, so even if they really have changed no one gives them a chance, so you are correct what is the point of letting them out?

Yes, people CAN change. The problem is that most of them AREN'T going to change. Then things like this happen....

Fred goes to jail for car theft. In prison he gets rehabilitated and earns his auto tech certification. I'm a kind hearted guy so I hire Fred after he gets out of prison. I send him for some more training at my expense, but he agrees to pay the cost back over time. Then, during the 3 weeks we're shut down in July (for my summer vacation), Fred falls on some financial hard-times because he's not real good at managing money. He doesn't want to, but he only knows one other way to get $$$. He agrees to scope out a few cars for a friend. They get caught and he ends up being charged as an accessory to GTA. He goes back to jail, and I'm out a worker and the time/money I spent to train him rather than the nice kid from the local Vo-Tech school who doesn't have a criminal record.

For the most part hiring these criminals is a losing proposition. Heck, in the office I currently work in, the Government doesn't allow anyone with a criminal record to even work in this part of our building. We have to undergo a security screening once a year.

The government does not hire people with criminal records for the most part, hell even a DUI disqualifies you for most government gigs. I agree with what you are saying though, the way prison is set up it actually makes the prisoners better criminals than before they went in there, it is similar to the prisons we run in Afghanistan where Militants become even more radical when they are exposed to Al Qaeda types. The prison system we have right now does not rehabilitate.

 

[California Girl]

I believe its possible to rehibilitate people.

I don't think prisons are especially good at it, though.

In fact I think more people come out of prison FUBAR than come out reformed.

Put me in prison and I'm pretty sure I'd come out the other side a true monster.

Which is why what we really need to do is to focus effort where it can have the best impact.... before kids go off the rails. I've done a thread about it so I won't repeat what I think we should do but it's being trialled in the UK.... at no expense to the taxpayer. I think it's a brilliant idea and one that we should emulate.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry but i don't give second chances to criminals.

You can rehabilitate all you want but I will never have a criminal work for me. They can't be trusted. Period.

When you get robbed and shot in the gut, you have no right to complain about it. If you don't want to let a man earn an honest dollar, then you are to blame when he provides for himself and his family any way he can.

You are the reason the recidivism rate is so high.

I have no obligation to hire a criminal.

My business is how I make an honest dollar and take care of my family and I will not jeopardize it for a criminal.



And anyone who pulls a gun on me will find one pointed at him as well.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry but i don't give second chances to criminals.

You can rehabilitate all you want but I will never have a criminal work for me. They can't be trusted. Period.

My Dad would disagree. He's employed several kids with criminal backgrounds, and worked with those kids to give them an opportunity to improve their lives. So far, only one has let him down. The rest have gone on to be decent, hard working employees, and decent people.

Good for him. I disagree.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry but i don't give second chances to criminals.

You can rehabilitate all you want but I will never have a criminal work for me. They can't be trusted. Period.

This is part of the problem, so why are we letting them out of prison than? if someone comes out of prison and really wants to stay straight how can they do it if no one is willing to give them a chance? we are pushing them right back into a life of crime.

As I said before i have absolutely no obligation to help a criminal. He made his choices and I made mine. I never stole or harmed anyone and I don't believe it's too much to require the same of people I hire.

 

[George Costanza]

There are different types of criminals. There is the one time offender who will never repeat because the one offense was an anomoly in their life. "Rehabilitation" is hardly an issue with such a person.

There are those with mild to moderate criminal records and those with major criminal records. It is with these types of criminals that rehabilitation becomes extremely important.

My experience has been that rehabilitation can occur, but only in the small minority of cases. Most of the time, criminals repeat.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Do we or do we not believe in rehabilitation? This should be the question at the root of all of our law and order discussions. This question would resolve all sorts of problems within our legal system, and would take all the questions out of sentecing. Rehabilitation should reflect our societal stance, perhaps a vote is in order? There is no point in saying you believe in rehabilitation and then holding past deeds against someone. For example, would you hire someone who has been convicted for embezzlement to work as a bank teller?, hire someone with a DUI as a driver?, or someone with an assault to work as a customer service representative?

I believe that as a society we don't believe in rehabilitation, and the proof is in our actions. The sexual predator list is a perfect example, followed by the non hireing of the embezzler, and DUI driver. Even the calls made to victims when their assailant is released; all of these prove that we don't believe in rehabilitation. There is nothing wrong with not believing in rehabilitation, or believing in rehabilitation. We just need to get consistant in our application of justice.

If we believe that criminals cannot be rehabilitated then why are we letting them out of prison? This would mean that we need to keep them locked up for life, costing us millions. It would seem that execution would be the logical step for criminals (all criminals of every crime), as we don't believe in rehabilitation.

If we do believe that they can be rehabilitated, then we need to start acting accordingly. Start by ending the sexual predator lists, and restrictions against these people as to where they can work and live. End the death penalty. End the calls to victims. Remove from applications the question, "have you ever been convicted of a crime?"

I hate hypocrites, and we are the most hypocritical society ever when it comes to our justice system. We need to decide once and for all, because the money spent on being indecisive is breaking the bank.

So the poll question is? Do you believe in rehabilitation?

The only form of Rehabilitation I approve of in the prison system is hard labor and hard time.

That means you work 10 hours every day doing things the state your imprisoned in needs done and that when your done working you don't get cable tv to watch.

 

[JBeukema]

R.D., what do you expect to happen when a man is repeatedly a chance to work an honest job and improve his condition the right way? Look beyond your emotions and consider the broader sociological impact of people like skull and the policies they advocate.

I'm not emotional at all.

You claim because someone exercises his right not to hire a convict he is the problem .. You also made the leap that the poor poor convict will be reduced by this guys choice to attempted murder and it won't be the convicts fault, he is a victim of someone else. Puh-leese.

If the world was full of Skull Pilots and a man wasn't allowed to earn an honest paycheck, what do you expect he will do? Starve?

 

[JBeukema]

Why'd they end the practice of letting qualifying youth go into the military instead of prison?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why'd they end the practice of letting qualifying youth go into the military instead of prison?

because the military is evil.

 

[Jeremy]

The third option looked lonely.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Do we or do we not believe in rehabilitation? This should be the question at the root of all of our law and order discussions. This question would resolve all sorts of problems within our legal system, and would take all the questions out of sentecing. Rehabilitation should reflect our societal stance, perhaps a vote is in order? There is no point in saying you believe in rehabilitation and then holding past deeds against someone. For example, would you hire someone who has been convicted for embezzlement to work as a bank teller?, hire someone with a DUI as a driver?, or someone with an assault to work as a customer service representative?

I believe that as a society we don't believe in rehabilitation, and the proof is in our actions. The sexual predator list is a perfect example, followed by the non hireing of the embezzler, and DUI driver. Even the calls made to victims when their assailant is released; all of these prove that we don't believe in rehabilitation. There is nothing wrong with not believing in rehabilitation, or believing in rehabilitation. We just need to get consistant in our application of justice.

If we believe that criminals cannot be rehabilitated then why are we letting them out of prison? This would mean that we need to keep them locked up for life, costing us millions. It would seem that execution would be the logical step for criminals (all criminals of every crime), as we don't believe in rehabilitation.

If we do believe that they can be rehabilitated, then we need to start acting accordingly. Start by ending the sexual predator lists, and restrictions against these people as to where they can work and live. End the death penalty. End the calls to victims. Remove from applications the question, "have you ever been convicted of a crime?"

I hate hypocrites, and we are the most hypocritical society ever when it comes to our justice system. We need to decide once and for all, because the money spent on being indecisive is breaking the bank.

So the poll question is? Do you believe in rehabilitation?

Forced rehabilitation? No. You can't make someone get their shit together. I do believe that criminals can rehabilitate themselves, and that such opportunities should be made available, within reason. But it's not the job of the correctional system to try to make it happen.