Do We Even Know What Good And Evil Are Anymore??

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Bonnie, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    For those who subscribe to Judeo-Christian values, right and wrong, good and evil, are derived form God, not from reason alone, nor from the human heart,the state or through majority rule.

    Though most college educated westerners never hear the case for the need for God-based morality becasue of the secular outlook that pervades modern education and the media, the case is both clear and compelling. If there is no transcendent source of morality (morality is the word I use for the standard of good and evil), "good" and "evil" are subjective opinions, not objective realities.

    In other words, if there is no God who says, "Do not murder" ("Do not kill" is a mistranslation of the Hebrew which, like English, has two words for homicide), murder is not wrong. Many people may think that it is wrong. but that is their opinion, not objective moral fact. there are no moral "facts" if there is no God; there are only moral opinions.

    This is the reason for moral realtivism--"What I think is right is right for me, what you think is right is right for you" that pervades modern society. The secularizaton of society is the primary reason vast numbers of people believe for example, that "one mans terrorits is another man's freedom fighter"; why the best educated were not able to say that free America was a more a moral society than the totalitarian Soviet Union; why, in short, deep moral confusion afflicted the 20th century and continues in this century.

    This is the reason why The New York Times, the voice of secualr moral relativism, was so repulsed by President Ronald Reagan's declaration that the soviet Union was an "evil empire." The secular world-- especially the left--fears and rejects the language of good and evil becasue it smacks of religious values and violates their moral relativism. It is perhaps the major difference between America and Europe.

    A major reason for the left's laothing of George W. Bush is his use of moral language--such as in his widely condemned description of the regimes of North Korea, Iran, and Iraq as an "axis of evil." These people reject the central Judeo-Christian vlaue of existence of objective good and evil and our obligation to make such judgements. Secularism has led to moral confusion, which in turn has led to moral paralysis

    If you could not call the Soviet Union an "evil empire" or the Iranian, North Korea and Iraqi regimes an "evil axis" you have rendered the word "evil" useless. and indeed it is not used in sophisticated secualr company--except in reference to those who use it (usually religious Chritians and Jews).

    Is abortion morally wrong? To the secular world, the answer is "it's between a woman and her physician." There is no clear expression of moral relativism: Every woman determines whether abortion is moral. On the other hand, to the individual with Judeo Christian values, it is not between anyone or anyone else. It is between society and God. Even maong religious people who differ in their reading of God's will, it is still never merely "between a woman and her physician."

    The best-known verse in the Bible is "Love you neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18). It is a reflection of the secular age in which we live that few people are aware that the verse concludes with the words. "I am God." Though entirely secularized in common parlance, the greatest of ethical principals comes from God. Otherwise it is just another man- made suggestion, no more compelling than "Cross at the green, not in between."

    www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/printdp20050111.shtml
     
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  2. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    In my opinion, moral erosion is a form of psy ops warfare. When morality erodes, people become like animals, and cease living up to a concept of higher self, the society becomes weak, and degenerates. That society is easily dominated.
     
  3. oxbow3
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    oxbow3 Member

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    Hi Bonnie. I am reading the book Why we Believe right now and one of the questions it brings up is "Do morals come from the Bible or do they predate it?"
    A few other quotes that I find relevant from this book:

    also, read the words of the Council of Wisdom, a text found in modern-day Iraq almost 5000 years ago.

    If this sounds familiar, open your Bible to Matt. 5:38-44. (the famous turn the other cheek/love your neighbor admonition). Biblical morals have many of their prototypes in the civilizations of the ancient world. Morality is shared by almost all human cultures. Some of the laws, taboos and advice given is different but most agree on the basics. Murder, theft, disrespect are all generally frowned upon while order, peace, family and community are usually cultivated as virtues.
     
  4. MissileMan
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    MissileMan Senior Member

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    You don't have to be a Christian to be moral or have morals. The unending stream of rhetoric that implies "If ya ain't Christian, ya ain't shit" is getting really tiresome. Christians don't have a monopoly on the ability to tell right from wrong. Other religions have been able to come up with concepts like "It's wrong to kill" or "It's wrong to steal" without any help from the bible...go figure!
     
  5. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    So would you concede that morality is derived from spirituality ? I agree that secularists sense of right and wrong is so subjective that it is virtually impossible to codify in a democracy yet religious condemnation of others has given the secularists the ammunition they need to counter the spritual pronouncements of love and acceptance. The discussion is doomed with spiritualists and secularists BOTH using the " I know better than you " defense when neither can prove their assertions. The "I" concept is what many religions attempt to diminish by the teachings and encourage people to see themselves as part of something larger. Secularism can only exist in opposition to true spirituality. When spirituality is extinguished, the state becomes the judge of right and wrong and secularism becomes slavery.
     
  6. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    I believe that is true. If you look at instances in which Communism took over, faith or the worship of anything spiritual that was elevated higher than man's reason was done away with or pushed underground. When a society is cleansed of spirituality, morality loses it's luster, people lose their will to fight for anything, and they become easy prey for power hungry secular governments.
     
  7. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    I agree you don't necessarily have to be Christian to have a strong moral base, but it all comes down to not only where then do your principals come from, but how consistenly do they hold merit with the changing tide??? Spirituality has roots that dig very deep within man's psyche, even primitive cultures aspired to worship someting higher than themselves as a way to keep their societies functioning, and surviving......... This article addresses those that think morality comes from human reason, that's a very dicey propostition.
     
  8. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    I'm curious to know where that number came from. According to the histories I've read of the Revolutionary Era, somewhere between 95-98% of all Americans were churchgoers.
     
  9. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    The question is, how does an atheist (or humanist, to be a bit more broad) derive his morals? A follower of a religion gets his morals from the religion he follows. But in the absence of a religious source of morals, the humanist has no underlying foundation for any moral belief.
     
  10. deaddude
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    deaddude Senior Member

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    I am an agnostic. I see my morals as having come to me with my upbringing, your parents tell you that itÂ’s wrong and you being young and impressionable believe them. Slowly you get a broad term like "harming others is bad" to measure whether or not something is good or evil. At least that is how I see it.
     

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