Do The Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

[ScienceRocks]

Yeah, and how well were they doing without a government to build roads, maintain infrastructure, fund medical research, hospitals, schools, a military...

Except for the military, can you point on anything above that is constitutionally government responsibility?

Can you point out the part that says what you're saying? The government has been building roads and funding things that are in the interest of the American people for 230 years. You probably should take a class in civics and stay away from discussing such things.

People like you are hurting this countries ability to compete. Seriously.

Article 1, Section 8.

Now, your turn.

Bullshit. You'd turn us into a ****** country that doesn't construct its own infrastructure or do nothing. Traitor.

 

[Ame®icano]

Jesus, you're pushing the narrative that taxes are a form of stealing, buddy, you live under a government, if you don't like it, move to somalia and live tax free.

Taxation is theft. If you disagree, then explain the difference. Telling me I live under a government is simply noting that I am subjected to organized plunder. Guido the leg breaker offers the same kind of solution as you.

Yeah, yeah, taxes are theft, blah blah blah... Well, if you want to live without anything the government provides, go for it, see how far you get.

Government doesn't give me the option of not paying for it's so-called "services," so I don't have that choice.

You're a typical lib idiot with typical lib non-arguments.

Get out of the country then, oh wait.. most civilized and developed countries have taxation and function wonderfully, hell, most of them have strong taxes, strong government programs, and do amazing. Go to somalia buddy.

These people need to stop driving on our roads, expecting warning from our nws and stop blaming Obama for destroying America. I am not saying Obama isn't a shitty president but these assholes don't have the right to judge.

Your roads? I paid taxes to build them. Have you?

 

[Ame®icano]

Yeah, and how well were they doing without a government to build roads, maintain infrastructure, fund medical research, hospitals, schools, a military...

Except for the military, can you point on anything above that is constitutionally government responsibility?

Can you point out the part that says what you're saying? The government has been building roads and funding things that are in the interest of the American people for 230 years. You probably should take a class in civics and stay away from discussing such things.

People like you are hurting this countries ability to compete. Seriously.

Article 1, Section 8.

Now, your turn.

Bullshit. You'd turn us into a ****** country that doesn't construct its own infrastructure or do nothing. Traitor.

You still haven't answered.

But of course, you did what fucking liberal do when asked to provide the answer. Insult is only option.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Businesses pay all costs in our society...

Not even close. Learn capitalism.

Fraid so, that's the literal economic truth.

Here's a clue, Karl, stop doing your economic research in the Communist Manifesto

You are clueless, utterly.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Sharing my little infant. Half for them, half for society that makes such an income possible.

We make income for society possible. You are a parasite, you make nothing possible

I'll help you out. It's your money after we take our cut. Pay to play boys, and this is the only game in town.

Wrong. I earned the money, not the government. Government has no legitimate claim to what I earn.

Jesus, you're pushing the narrative that taxes are a form of stealing, buddy, you live under a government, if you don't like it, move to somalia and live tax free.

Taxation is theft. If you disagree, then explain the difference. Telling me I live under a government is simply noting that I am subjected to organized plunder. Guido the leg breaker offers the same kind of solution as you.

Taxation is the cost of doing business my little pissing infant.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Taxation is the cost of doing business my little pissing infant.

Yep, taxes pay for everything that makes us the most powerful country on earth. These people use all of what our tax dollars pay for...

It is the cost of living within a first world country!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Yes, the government mafia will have it's cut. That doesn't contradict what I said, Buckwheat. I didn't say they aren't going to take it, I said you are the parasite

You can say anything you like, and you'll be just as wrong as usual.

We earn it all, businesses create the economy. Government takes all it's money from us, so we pay your freight. Your income taxes are earned by us. You contribute nothing but showing up at work. Maybe. What word you prefer to describe you over parasite? Leech? Barnacle? Sponge? Bloodsucker? I'm good with any of those, let me know which one you prefer for you and I'll use that

Use Capitalist, CEO of an LLC, and Consultant, who charges by the hour. It might be a small company but it's all mine little friend.

In other words, your company consists of you and nobody else.

And he's half there at best

One of the advatages of being me, I choose my own way.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If it is theft then stop driving on our roads, stop relying on our weather service for warning and in fact get the fuck out. Simply because the clean water you're drinking to the regulations that make your job fair is funded by tax dollars.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Debt you want shared evenly, but not income. Got it.

What a deal for the rich eh? As usual...

My wealth is of my doing, not yours. YOU have no claim to it and it is irrelevant to your situation. If you want wealth comparable to mine, earn it yourself.

You make it here, we allow that, you owe some of it back to us. It's a pay to play game so stop bitching about the bill, it should be far higher.

You make it here, we allow that

Da, comrade. LOL!

Entirely true. Without society there would be no capitalism.

Government isn't society. You like to pretend they are one and the same. We don't pay taxes to society. We pay them to government.

You pay them to what allows you to do business as usual. You can call them Janice for all that it matters.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Anyone talking about a "fair share" should be required to give a number. Otherwise, it just means "More".

Fair share? 50% of everything over 500K. Make as much as you like.

How did you determine that is "fair?"

Sharing my little infant. Half for them, half for society that makes such an income possible.

Again, taxes are paid to the government, not society.

According to what formula is government entitled to half?

Mine.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Fair share? 50% of everything over 500K. Make as much as you like.

How did you determine that is "fair?"

Sharing my little infant. Half for them, half for society that makes such an income possible.

We make income for society possible. You are a parasite, you make nothing possible

I'll help you out. It's your money after we take our cut. Pay to play boys, and this is the only game in town.

Wrong. I earned the money, not the government. Government has no legitimate claim to what I earn.

Without the government you would have earned nothing but piss my little infant. There is no free lunch, not even at Mommy's breast.

 

[Flopper]

Editorial by Lee Ohanian, Professor of Economics at UCLA

Here's a question you're likely to hear whenever the subject of taxes comes up: Do the rich pay their fair share?

There are two parts to this question:

Who is rich?

And, what is fair?

Let's start with who is rich:

Nearly everyone assumes that a person who is among the top ten percent of all income earners qualifies as rich.

But according to 2011 data, a top ten percent household makes around $150,000 or above in gross annual income -- that's income before deductions and taxes. Now, $150,000 is a nice living, but it certainly doesn't make you rich.

OK, then. What about the top 5%?

You get into this percentile if your household makes around $190,000 or above. That's a nice bump. But it hardly puts you in the rich category.

How about the top 1%? That's $500,000 or above. A great income, but remember, most people only get to that level after many years of hard work and, quite possibly, the accumulation of serious debt to fund their education or build their business.

Of course, there are people who make more than $500,000. And there are some who make many millions, even billions. But the number who do is very small.

Now, let's talk about fair.

Fair would seem be that the group of taxpayers who earn 10% of the country's income would pay 10% of the country's taxes; the group who earned 20% would pay 20% of the taxes and so on.

But what If I told you that, according to IRS data, the top 10% of all earners -- the people making $150,000 and above -- pay 71% of all federal income tax while earning only 43% of all income.

If anything, the top ten percent pay more than their fair share.

So, as it happens, do the much reviled top 1%. They earn 17 percent of all income, but pay 37% of all federal income taxes.

And what about those at the other end of the income scale, the lower earners? Are we squeezing them? Hardly. Those who make $45,000 or less, 47% of all earners, pay little and often no income taxes.

Ah, but what about payroll taxes -- the money we pay to fund Social Security and Medicare? That takes a bigger bite of the paycheck of lower earners than higher earners. Isn't that unfair?

Consider two points:

First, it's misleading to call the Payroll Tax a tax. It's really an insurance payment that guarantees we receive social security and Medicare after we turn 65.

Second, the benefits we receive from Social Security are capped, no matter how much we have paid in. This means that the payroll taxes of high earners actually help subsidize the social security and Medicare benefits that low earners receive at retirement.

How do all these numbers stack up against other countries?

The US income tax system is substantially more progressive - meaning that income tax rates rise as income rises -- than other advanced countries, including Germany and Sweden.

So, if you think that our tax system is unfair because it coddles high earners, then you must conclude that tax systems in these other countries are even more unfair.

So how high are tax rates on Americans today? Well, throw in federal tax increases mandated in 2013 and state taxes, and top earners face a tax rate of more than 50 per cent in California and New York. Other states like Maryland and Connecticut are not far behind. Do you think a tax rate of greater than 50% is fair? If so, is there any rate that wouldn't be?

Nobody is calling for bake sales for anyone in the top ten percent of earners. And no one wants to minimize the struggles of those at the lower income strata. But to say the "rich," however you might define them, don't pay their fair share is simply wrong.

Finally, numerous academic studies, including ones that I have done, show that when tax rates are too high, investment, risk taking by entrepreneurs, and therefore job creation all decline. And when that happens it's the poor who suffer, not the rich. The rich do fine.

It may feel good to take even more money from the top ten percent, but it doesn't do good. And it sure isn't fair.

- Lee Ohanian, Professor of Economics at UCLA

So we shift the tax burden to the poor and give them an incentive to become rich.

We tax the wealthy at a higher rate because the wealthy can afford to pay higher taxes; that is they have more discretionary income after they pay for necessities. So the actually burden is not as great on the billionaire as on the low income worker.

The argument, that if we don't tax the wealthy at such a high rate, they will use their tax savings to invest in job creating investments or invest in treasury bonds, , or precious metals, or tax free municipal bonds, or collectibles, or overseas investments or just stuff it in bank accounts.

 

[Spare_change]

Editorial by Lee Ohanian, Professor of Economics at UCLA

Here's a question you're likely to hear whenever the subject of taxes comes up: Do the rich pay their fair share?

There are two parts to this question:

Who is rich?

And, what is fair?

Let's start with who is rich:

Nearly everyone assumes that a person who is among the top ten percent of all income earners qualifies as rich.

But according to 2011 data, a top ten percent household makes around $150,000 or above in gross annual income -- that's income before deductions and taxes. Now, $150,000 is a nice living, but it certainly doesn't make you rich.

OK, then. What about the top 5%?

You get into this percentile if your household makes around $190,000 or above. That's a nice bump. But it hardly puts you in the rich category.

How about the top 1%? That's $500,000 or above. A great income, but remember, most people only get to that level after many years of hard work and, quite possibly, the accumulation of serious debt to fund their education or build their business.

Of course, there are people who make more than $500,000. And there are some who make many millions, even billions. But the number who do is very small.

Now, let's talk about fair.

Fair would seem be that the group of taxpayers who earn 10% of the country's income would pay 10% of the country's taxes; the group who earned 20% would pay 20% of the taxes and so on.

But what If I told you that, according to IRS data, the top 10% of all earners -- the people making $150,000 and above -- pay 71% of all federal income tax while earning only 43% of all income.

If anything, the top ten percent pay more than their fair share.

So, as it happens, do the much reviled top 1%. They earn 17 percent of all income, but pay 37% of all federal income taxes.

And what about those at the other end of the income scale, the lower earners? Are we squeezing them? Hardly. Those who make $45,000 or less, 47% of all earners, pay little and often no income taxes.

Ah, but what about payroll taxes -- the money we pay to fund Social Security and Medicare? That takes a bigger bite of the paycheck of lower earners than higher earners. Isn't that unfair?

Consider two points:

First, it's misleading to call the Payroll Tax a tax. It's really an insurance payment that guarantees we receive social security and Medicare after we turn 65.

Second, the benefits we receive from Social Security are capped, no matter how much we have paid in. This means that the payroll taxes of high earners actually help subsidize the social security and Medicare benefits that low earners receive at retirement.

How do all these numbers stack up against other countries?

The US income tax system is substantially more progressive - meaning that income tax rates rise as income rises -- than other advanced countries, including Germany and Sweden.

So, if you think that our tax system is unfair because it coddles high earners, then you must conclude that tax systems in these other countries are even more unfair.

So how high are tax rates on Americans today? Well, throw in federal tax increases mandated in 2013 and state taxes, and top earners face a tax rate of more than 50 per cent in California and New York. Other states like Maryland and Connecticut are not far behind. Do you think a tax rate of greater than 50% is fair? If so, is there any rate that wouldn't be?

Nobody is calling for bake sales for anyone in the top ten percent of earners. And no one wants to minimize the struggles of those at the lower income strata. But to say the "rich," however you might define them, don't pay their fair share is simply wrong.

Finally, numerous academic studies, including ones that I have done, show that when tax rates are too high, investment, risk taking by entrepreneurs, and therefore job creation all decline. And when that happens it's the poor who suffer, not the rich. The rich do fine.

It may feel good to take even more money from the top ten percent, but it doesn't do good. And it sure isn't fair.

- Lee Ohanian, Professor of Economics at UCLA

So we shift the tax burden to the poor and give them an incentive to become rich.

We tax the wealthy at a higher rate because the wealthy can afford to pay higher taxes; that is they have more discretionary income after they pay for necessities. So the actually burden is not as great on the billionaire as on the low income worker.

The argument, that if we don't tax the wealthy at such a high rate, they will use their tax savings to invest in job creating investments or invest in treasury bonds, , or precious metals, or tax free municipal bonds, or collectibles, or overseas investments or just stuff it in bank accounts.

No - we cut our tax load, and pass it on to the ones who are paying the taxes. Get rid of unnecessary and duplicative programs. Take the shackles off our economy ...

Your rationale - we charge them because they can afford it - sounds like a self-serving rationale to justify what you know to be morally and ethically wrong.

 

[Ernie S.]

The only reason the top 10% of wage earners pay 71% of taxes is because they only have 10% or the votes/
If 47% of voters pay zero percent, or in some cases, actually get refunds without paying any income tax at all, is because they have nearly 5 times the power at the polls.
Tax policy simply buys votes and rewards behavior that the government in power wants to promote.

No, 1% of $1M is more than 1% of $50K.

Don't the 47% pay more in all other taxes than the 10%?

No.

 

[Ernie S.]

Editorial by Lee Ohanian, Professor of Economics at UCLA

Here's a question you're likely to hear whenever the subject of taxes comes up: Do the rich pay their fair share?

There are two parts to this question:

Who is rich?

And, what is fair?

Let's start with who is rich:

Nearly everyone assumes that a person who is among the top ten percent of all income earners qualifies as rich.

But according to 2011 data, a top ten percent household makes around $150,000 or above in gross annual income -- that's income before deductions and taxes. Now, $150,000 is a nice living, but it certainly doesn't make you rich.

OK, then. What about the top 5%?

You get into this percentile if your household makes around $190,000 or above. That's a nice bump. But it hardly puts you in the rich category.

How about the top 1%? That's $500,000 or above. A great income, but remember, most people only get to that level after many years of hard work and, quite possibly, the accumulation of serious debt to fund their education or build their business.

Of course, there are people who make more than $500,000. And there are some who make many millions, even billions. But the number who do is very small.

Now, let's talk about fair.

Fair would seem be that the group of taxpayers who earn 10% of the country's income would pay 10% of the country's taxes; the group who earned 20% would pay 20% of the taxes and so on.

But what If I told you that, according to IRS data, the top 10% of all earners -- the people making $150,000 and above -- pay 71% of all federal income tax while earning only 43% of all income.

If anything, the top ten percent pay more than their fair share.

So, as it happens, do the much reviled top 1%. They earn 17 percent of all income, but pay 37% of all federal income taxes.

And what about those at the other end of the income scale, the lower earners? Are we squeezing them? Hardly. Those who make $45,000 or less, 47% of all earners, pay little and often no income taxes.

Ah, but what about payroll taxes -- the money we pay to fund Social Security and Medicare? That takes a bigger bite of the paycheck of lower earners than higher earners. Isn't that unfair?

Consider two points:

First, it's misleading to call the Payroll Tax a tax. It's really an insurance payment that guarantees we receive social security and Medicare after we turn 65.

Second, the benefits we receive from Social Security are capped, no matter how much we have paid in. This means that the payroll taxes of high earners actually help subsidize the social security and Medicare benefits that low earners receive at retirement.

How do all these numbers stack up against other countries?

The US income tax system is substantially more progressive - meaning that income tax rates rise as income rises -- than other advanced countries, including Germany and Sweden.

So, if you think that our tax system is unfair because it coddles high earners, then you must conclude that tax systems in these other countries are even more unfair.

So how high are tax rates on Americans today? Well, throw in federal tax increases mandated in 2013 and state taxes, and top earners face a tax rate of more than 50 per cent in California and New York. Other states like Maryland and Connecticut are not far behind. Do you think a tax rate of greater than 50% is fair? If so, is there any rate that wouldn't be?

Nobody is calling for bake sales for anyone in the top ten percent of earners. And no one wants to minimize the struggles of those at the lower income strata. But to say the "rich," however you might define them, don't pay their fair share is simply wrong.

Finally, numerous academic studies, including ones that I have done, show that when tax rates are too high, investment, risk taking by entrepreneurs, and therefore job creation all decline. And when that happens it's the poor who suffer, not the rich. The rich do fine.

It may feel good to take even more money from the top ten percent, but it doesn't do good. And it sure isn't fair.

- Lee Ohanian, Professor of Economics at UCLA

So we shift the tax burden to the poor and give them an incentive to become rich.

We tax the wealthy at a higher rate because the wealthy can afford to pay higher taxes; that is they have more discretionary income after they pay for necessities. So the actually burden is not as great on the billionaire as on the low income worker.

The argument, that if we don't tax the wealthy at such a high rate, they will use their tax savings to invest in job creating investments or invest in treasury bonds, , or precious metals, or tax free municipal bonds, or collectibles, or overseas investments or just stuff it in bank accounts.

Bullshit! You tax the wealthy at a higher rate because they have fewer votes.

 

[Ernie S.]

I want the government to provide free puppies for hookers, and the rich should pay their fair share!

Condoms and health care would be more useful, and better for society...

I'd buy you condoms for life. Please double bag it. Damned if I want you reproducing.

 

[there4eyeM]

The 'rich' certainly do pay more than their fair share...

...to (read 'to buy') 'our' representatives.

Since they're for sale, why shouldn't they?

Well, there sure aren't any slave to buy any more, so...

Tsk, tsk...should be 'slaves'; hate it when I make mistakes like that!

 

[there4eyeM]

Debt you want shared evenly, but not income. Got it.

What a deal for the rich eh? As usual...

My wealth is of my doing, not yours. YOU have no claim to it and it is irrelevant to your situation. If you want wealth comparable to mine, earn it yourself.

You make it here, we allow that, you owe some of it back to us. It's a pay to play game so stop bitching about the bill, it should be far higher.

You make it here, we allow that

Da, comrade. LOL!

Entirely true. Without society there would be no capitalism.

Government isn't society. You like to pretend they are one and the same. We don't pay taxes to society. We pay them to government.

'Government' and 'society' mean 'people'. Taxes are part of social action intended for social good.

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah, and how well were they doing without a government to build roads, maintain infrastructure, fund medical research, hospitals, schools, a military...

Except for the military, can you point on anything above that is constitutionally government responsibility?

I don't care about strictly following a old framework that is meant to be flexible, nor does any other civilized country worldwide.

These people still live in the 1780's...The constitution was made to evolve and our country became the strongest country on earth....These people are mental.

The Constitution hasn't "evolved." It's simply ignored.

 

[bripat9643]

My wealth is of my doing, not yours. YOU have no claim to it and it is irrelevant to your situation. If you want wealth comparable to mine, earn it yourself.

You make it here, we allow that, you owe some of it back to us. It's a pay to play game so stop bitching about the bill, it should be far higher.

You make it here, we allow that

Da, comrade. LOL!

Entirely true. Without society there would be no capitalism.

Government isn't society. You like to pretend they are one and the same. We don't pay taxes to society. We pay them to government.

'Government' and 'society' mean 'people'. Taxes are part of social action intended for social good.

'Mob' also means 'people.' We can argue until doomsday about the 'intentions' of taxes. The reality is that taxes are stolen swag handed out to government constituencies.