Do The Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

[Toddsterpatriot]

A fair share is to divide the national budget by the number of citizens of voting age, and that is the amount each citizen owes. That's the only formula that calculates a fair share.

Therefore the people who are not paying at least that amount in federal taxes are the only ones that are not paying their fair share.

I'll tell my 85 year old Mom in law to kick in more...

Tell her not to worry about it...someone else is paying more than their fair share to pick up the slack.

Okay, take the entire wealth of the nation, divide by citizens eligible to vote, send me my share each year and the bill for paying the debt off in ten years. That bill I will gladly pay with my generous new income.

The nation has no wealth - again, your rhetoric is empty.

I know you don't pay attention to the posts because you are a very ignorant LIP!!!
READ AGAIN the following:

THE net worth of American households is now 20 percent higher than it was before it began to decline in 2007, the Federal Reserve reported this week. It said the households together were worth $81.5 trillion at the end of the second quarter, higher than ever and up 10 percent from a year earlier.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/b...as-rebounded-since-financial-crisis.html?_r=0


Total Assets of ALL households: $95.4 trillion...

Total DEBTS of all households: $14.0 trillion...

NET WORTH: $81.5 trillion.

Net in case you don't have enough financial sense to understand the above...
A) Add up all the assets of all households TOTAL value $95.4 TRILLION!
B) Add up all the debts the households OWE total amount: $14.0 Trillion!
C) When you cash in all the assets and pay off all the debts the amount
LEFT OVER NET WORTH: $81.5 trillion!!!

THE net worth of American households is now 20 percent higher

Why are you confusing the wealth of Americans with the wealth of the nation?

 

[kaz]

We make income for society possible. You are a parasite, you make nothing possible

I'll help you out. It's your money after we take our cut. Pay to play boys, and this is the only game in town.

Yes, the government mafia will have it's cut. That doesn't contradict what I said, Buckwheat. I didn't say they aren't going to take it, I said you are the parasite

You can say anything you like, and you'll be just as wrong as usual.

We earn it all, businesses create the economy. Government takes all it's money from us, so we pay your freight. Your income taxes are earned by us. You contribute nothing but showing up at work. Maybe. What word you prefer to describe you over parasite? Leech? Barnacle? Sponge? Bloodsucker? I'm good with any of those, let me know which one you prefer for you and I'll use that

 

[kaz]

Warren Buffett says we should tax the rich more while hiring an army of accountants to manipulate a loophole to be paid in capital gains rather than income and keep his taxes artificially low.

Reason #793 for why we need to ban all tax expenditures.

I'm confused, a tax expenditure is a deduction or a credit like for a mortgage. What are you trying to say? You want a flat tax rate?

I want to ban all tax expenditures. A "loophole" is just a colloquial expression for a tax expenditure.

Simpletons thinks a flat tax rate will fix things, but a flat tax rate is just as susceptible to corruption by tax expenditures as the current tax structure is.

A flat tax rate that does not ban tax expenditures will require as many pages of tax forms and as many accountants to do our taxes as the current system does. It will have as many thousands of pages in the tax code as the current system does.

We could do our taxes on a postcard right now with the current tax brackets if we banned all tax expenditures.

If you had any understanding of our system, a light bulb should be going off in your head right about now.

I agree with what you are saying, but you're wrong that the correct term for what Buffett does is "tax expenditure." Buffet is changing a tax rate with his gimmick. Think about the term "expenditure." Things like tax deductions for government marriage, mortgage deduction, medical bills, those are tax expenditures

I'm not arguing that makes it better, just that you're using the wrong term

It is possible Buffet is employing a deferral on his investment income and than buying an option on the value of his deferred stake from another financial institution, giving him the right to buy back the stake at its current value in the future. Since this introduces an element of risk, voila! An income is turned into a capital gain!

Actually, I told you how he is doing it. He's taking his pay as capital gains rather than income

 

[kaz]

We make income for society possible. You are a parasite, you make nothing possible

I'll help you out. It's your money after we take our cut. Pay to play boys, and this is the only game in town.

Yes, the government mafia will have it's cut. That doesn't contradict what I said, Buckwheat. I didn't say they aren't going to take it, I said you are the parasite

You can say anything you like, and you'll be just as wrong as usual.

We earn it all, businesses create the economy. Government takes all it's money from us, so we pay your freight. Your income taxes are earned by us. You contribute nothing but showing up at work. Maybe. What word you prefer to describe you over parasite? Leech? Barnacle? Sponge? Bloodsucker? I'm good with any of those, let me know which one you prefer for you and I'll use that

Yeah, go live without a government and see how well it works for you. Get over yourself.

Non sequitur. Since the conversation is written down, can you read it again rather than my re-explaining the discussion?

I did like the my choices are anarchy and Marxism bit, that always cracks me up. Thank you, thank you, you're here until Thursday....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Warren Buffett says we should tax the rich more while hiring an army of accountants to manipulate a loophole to be paid in capital gains rather than income and keep his taxes artificially low.

Reason #793 for why we need to ban all tax expenditures.

I'm confused, a tax expenditure is a deduction or a credit like for a mortgage. What are you trying to say? You want a flat tax rate?

I want to ban all tax expenditures. A "loophole" is just a colloquial expression for a tax expenditure.

Simpletons thinks a flat tax rate will fix things, but a flat tax rate is just as susceptible to corruption by tax expenditures as the current tax structure is.

A flat tax rate that does not ban tax expenditures will require as many pages of tax forms and as many accountants to do our taxes as the current system does. It will have as many thousands of pages in the tax code as the current system does.

We could do our taxes on a postcard right now with the current tax brackets if we banned all tax expenditures.

If you had any understanding of our system, a light bulb should be going off in your head right about now.

I agree with what you are saying, but you're wrong that the correct term for what Buffett does is "tax expenditure." Buffet is changing a tax rate with his gimmick. Think about the term "expenditure." Things like tax deductions for government marriage, mortgage deduction, medical bills, those are tax expenditures

I'm not arguing that makes it better, just that you're using the wrong term

It is possible Buffet is employing a deferral on his investment income and than buying an option on the value of his deferred stake from another financial institution, giving him the right to buy back the stake at its current value in the future. Since this introduces an element of risk, voila! An income is turned into a capital gain!

It is possible Buffet is employing a deferral on his investment income

Huh? Which investment income? Dividends? Capital gains? Something else?

and than buying an option on the value of his deferred stake from another financial institution

He's buying a call option on this deferral?
AFAIK, the tax rate on short term option profits are the same as your ordinary tax rate.

 

[kaz]

Reason #793 for why we need to ban all tax expenditures.

I'm confused, a tax expenditure is a deduction or a credit like for a mortgage. What are you trying to say? You want a flat tax rate?

I want to ban all tax expenditures. A "loophole" is just a colloquial expression for a tax expenditure.

Simpletons thinks a flat tax rate will fix things, but a flat tax rate is just as susceptible to corruption by tax expenditures as the current tax structure is.

A flat tax rate that does not ban tax expenditures will require as many pages of tax forms and as many accountants to do our taxes as the current system does. It will have as many thousands of pages in the tax code as the current system does.

We could do our taxes on a postcard right now with the current tax brackets if we banned all tax expenditures.

If you had any understanding of our system, a light bulb should be going off in your head right about now.

I agree with what you are saying, but you're wrong that the correct term for what Buffett does is "tax expenditure." Buffet is changing a tax rate with his gimmick. Think about the term "expenditure." Things like tax deductions for government marriage, mortgage deduction, medical bills, those are tax expenditures

I'm not arguing that makes it better, just that you're using the wrong term

It is possible Buffet is employing a deferral on his investment income and than buying an option on the value of his deferred stake from another financial institution, giving him the right to buy back the stake at its current value in the future. Since this introduces an element of risk, voila! An income is turned into a capital gain!

It is possible Buffet is employing a deferral on his investment income

Huh? Which investment income? Dividends? Capital gains? Something else?

and than buying an option on the value of his deferred stake from another financial institution

He's buying a call option on this deferral?
AFAIK, the tax rate on short term option profits are the same as your ordinary tax rate.

Yes, good point Todd. Options would defer his taxes, not lower the rate. He's lowering his rate.

The other stupid liberal trick Buffett did was saying his secretary pays a higher rate than him. His secretary makes over $400K. His secretary is an evil one percenter.

The guy is human excrement. He's a liar, a fraud and a con. His mother should have taught him about honesty

 

[kaz]

Yes, the government mafia will have it's cut. That doesn't contradict what I said, Buckwheat. I didn't say they aren't going to take it, I said you are the parasite

You can say anything you like, and you'll be just as wrong as usual.

We earn it all, businesses create the economy. Government takes all it's money from us, so we pay your freight. Your income taxes are earned by us. You contribute nothing but showing up at work. Maybe. What word you prefer to describe you over parasite? Leech? Barnacle? Sponge? Bloodsucker? I'm good with any of those, let me know which one you prefer for you and I'll use that

Yeah, go live without a government and see how well it works for you. Get over yourself.

Non sequitur. Since the conversation is written down, can you read it again rather than my re-explaining the discussion?

I did like the my choices are anarchy and Marxism bit, that always cracks me up. Thank you, thank you, you're here until Thursday....

? I can barely understand that second sentence.

OK, I'll type slower for you since you can't read fast. Apparently since I don't want ubiquitous government, I am an anarchist. You are saying my choices are all, powerful government that can do anything, or no government at all. There is nothing in the middle. Those are my choices. Are any of these various ways of saying the same thing over and over seeping through?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm confused, a tax expenditure is a deduction or a credit like for a mortgage. What are you trying to say? You want a flat tax rate?

I want to ban all tax expenditures. A "loophole" is just a colloquial expression for a tax expenditure.

Simpletons thinks a flat tax rate will fix things, but a flat tax rate is just as susceptible to corruption by tax expenditures as the current tax structure is.

A flat tax rate that does not ban tax expenditures will require as many pages of tax forms and as many accountants to do our taxes as the current system does. It will have as many thousands of pages in the tax code as the current system does.

We could do our taxes on a postcard right now with the current tax brackets if we banned all tax expenditures.

If you had any understanding of our system, a light bulb should be going off in your head right about now.

I agree with what you are saying, but you're wrong that the correct term for what Buffett does is "tax expenditure." Buffet is changing a tax rate with his gimmick. Think about the term "expenditure." Things like tax deductions for government marriage, mortgage deduction, medical bills, those are tax expenditures

I'm not arguing that makes it better, just that you're using the wrong term

It is possible Buffet is employing a deferral on his investment income and than buying an option on the value of his deferred stake from another financial institution, giving him the right to buy back the stake at its current value in the future. Since this introduces an element of risk, voila! An income is turned into a capital gain!

It is possible Buffet is employing a deferral on his investment income

Huh? Which investment income? Dividends? Capital gains? Something else?

and than buying an option on the value of his deferred stake from another financial institution

He's buying a call option on this deferral?
AFAIK, the tax rate on short term option profits are the same as your ordinary tax rate.

Yes, good point Todd. Options would defer his taxes, not lower the rate. He's lowering his rate.

The other stupid liberal trick Buffett did was saying his secretary pays a higher rate than him. His secretary makes over $400K. His secretary is an evil one percenter.

The guy is human excrement. He's a liar, a fraud and a con. His mother should have taught him about honesty

Options would defer his taxes

I'm not even sure about that. I'll wait for a fuller explanation from g5000.

His secretary makes over $400K.

I've mocked his silly claim before.
You have a link for her salary?

 

[kaz]

Options would defer his taxes

I'm not even sure about that. I'll wait for a fuller explanation from g5000.

I never paid taxes on options given to me by my companies until I exercise them

His secretary makes over $400K

I've mocked his silly claim before.
You have a link for her salary?

A quick search said between $200K and $500K based on his statement. I remember seeing $400K at the time. The exact isn't important anyway, the point is he said he pays a lower rate than his "secretary" to mislead people about what his "secretary" means.

 

[kaz]

We earn it all, businesses create the economy. Government takes all it's money from us, so we pay your freight. Your income taxes are earned by us. You contribute nothing but showing up at work. Maybe. What word you prefer to describe you over parasite? Leech? Barnacle? Sponge? Bloodsucker? I'm good with any of those, let me know which one you prefer for you and I'll use that

Yeah, go live without a government and see how well it works for you. Get over yourself.

Non sequitur. Since the conversation is written down, can you read it again rather than my re-explaining the discussion?

I did like the my choices are anarchy and Marxism bit, that always cracks me up. Thank you, thank you, you're here until Thursday....

? I can barely understand that second sentence.

OK, I'll type slower for you since you can't read fast. Since I don't want ubiquitous government, I am an anarchist. You are saying my choices are all, powerful government that can do anything, or no government at all. There is nothing in the middle. Those are my choices. Are any of these various ways of saying the same thing over and over seeping through?

What is wrong with you? I criticized government and you called me an "anarchist." If you don't want to be stupid, stop being stupid.

 

[OnePercenter]

The only reason the top 10% of wage earners pay 71% of taxes is because they only have 10% or the votes/
If 47% of voters pay zero percent, or in some cases, actually get refunds without paying any income tax at all, is because they have nearly 5 times the power at the polls.
Tax policy simply buys votes and rewards behavior that the government in power wants to promote.

No, 1% of $1M is more than 1% of $50K.

Don't the 47% pay more in all other taxes than the 10%?

 

[kaz]

The only reason the top 10% of wage earners pay 71% of taxes is because they only have 10% or the votes/
If 47% of voters pay zero percent, or in some cases, actually get refunds without paying any income tax at all, is because they have nearly 5 times the power at the polls.
Tax policy simply buys votes and rewards behavior that the government in power wants to promote.

No, 1% of $1M is more than 1% of $50K.

Don't the 47% pay more in all other taxes than the 10%?

I'd try reading Ernie's post again because you completely whiffed on it the first time

 

[OnePercenter]

The only reason the top 10% of wage earners pay 71% of taxes is because they only have 10% or the votes/
If 47% of voters pay zero percent, or in some cases, actually get refunds without paying any income tax at all, is because they have nearly 5 times the power at the polls.
Tax policy simply buys votes and rewards behavior that the government in power wants to promote.

No, 1% of $1M is more than 1% of $50K.

Don't the 47% pay more in all other taxes than the 10%?

I'd try reading Ernie's post again because you completely whiffed on it the first time

Why don't you post what you believe I missed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Options would defer his taxes

I'm not even sure about that. I'll wait for a fuller explanation from g5000.

I never paid taxes on options given to me by my companies until I exercise them

His secretary makes over $400K

I've mocked his silly claim before.
You have a link for her salary?

A quick search said between $200K and $500K based on his statement. I remember seeing $400K at the time. The exact isn't important anyway, the point is he said he pays a lower rate than his "secretary" to mislead people about what his "secretary" means.

A quick search said between $200K and $500K based on his statement.

I knew his statement was BS from the start.
Didn't even bother trying to extrapolate. GIGO.

I never paid taxes on options given to me by my companies until I exercise them

I don't think that's the type he's talking about.
He said " buying an option on the value of his deferred stake from another financial institution". Different animal.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The only reason the top 10% of wage earners pay 71% of taxes is because they only have 10% or the votes/
If 47% of voters pay zero percent, or in some cases, actually get refunds without paying any income tax at all, is because they have nearly 5 times the power at the polls.
Tax policy simply buys votes and rewards behavior that the government in power wants to promote.

No, 1% of $1M is more than 1% of $50K.

Don't the 47% pay more in all other taxes than the 10%?

Don't the 47% pay more in all other taxes than the 10%?

Doubtful.
Still confused about the difference between revenue and income?
Between sales and profit?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The only reason the top 10% of wage earners pay 71% of taxes is because they only have 10% or the votes/
If 47% of voters pay zero percent, or in some cases, actually get refunds without paying any income tax at all, is because they have nearly 5 times the power at the polls.
Tax policy simply buys votes and rewards behavior that the government in power wants to promote.

No, 1% of $1M is more than 1% of $50K.

Don't the 47% pay more in all other taxes than the 10%?

I'd try reading Ernie's post again because you completely whiffed on it the first time

Why don't you post what you believe I missed.

If the bottom 47% pay 0% or less on income, why are you looking at 1% of anything?

 

[kaz]

His secretary makes over $400K

I've mocked his silly claim before.
You have a link for her salary?

A quick search said between $200K and $500K based on his statement. I remember seeing $400K at the time. The exact isn't important anyway, the point is he said he pays a lower rate than his "secretary" to mislead people about what his "secretary" means.[/QUOTE]

A quick search said between $200K and $500K based on his statement.

I knew his statement was BS from the start.
Didn't even bother trying to extrapolate. GIGO.

I never paid taxes on options given to me by my companies until I exercise them

I don't think that's the type he's talking about.
He said " buying an option on the value of his deferred stake from another financial institution". Different animal.[/QUOTE]

OK, let me rephrase. I've never heard of any option being taxable until it is exercised. Furthermore, it makes no sense to me how it would be. How can an unexercised "option" be a taxable event?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

OK, let me rephrase. I've never heard of any option being taxable until it is exercised. Furthermore, it makes no sense to me how it would be. How can an unexercised "option" be a taxable event?

He's talking about some OTC option, tailor made to whatever imaginary situation G5000 dreamt up. If he bought it and then sold it, to turn some income number into a capital gain, that trade would be considered a short term capital gain which is taxed as ordinary income.
I suspect G5000 just made it up and is wrong, I'll wait until he responds.

 

[kaz]

OK, let me rephrase. I've never heard of any option being taxable until it is exercised. Furthermore, it makes no sense to me how it would be. How can an unexercised "option" be a taxable event?

He's talking about some OTC option, tailor made to whatever imaginary situation G5000 dreamt up. If he bought it and then sold it, to turn some income number into a capital gain, that trade would be considered a short term capital gain which is taxed as ordinary income.
I suspect G5000 just made it up and is wrong, I'll wait until he responds.

That works, but I"m not holding my breath we'll get satisfaction

 

[PaintMyHouse]

We make income for society possible. You are a parasite, you make nothing possible

I'll help you out. It's your money after we take our cut. Pay to play boys, and this is the only game in town.

Yes, the government mafia will have it's cut. That doesn't contradict what I said, Buckwheat. I didn't say they aren't going to take it, I said you are the parasite

You can say anything you like, and you'll be just as wrong as usual.

We earn it all, businesses create the economy. Government takes all it's money from us, so we pay your freight. Your income taxes are earned by us. You contribute nothing but showing up at work. Maybe. What word you prefer to describe you over parasite? Leech? Barnacle? Sponge? Bloodsucker? I'm good with any of those, let me know which one you prefer for you and I'll use that

Use Capitalist, CEO of an LLC, and Consultant, who charges by the hour. It might be a small company but it's all mine little friend.