Do Palestinians Have the Right to Defend Themselves?

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times, it is a wonder that the sands are not stained red by all the blood spilt over it. Over that specific sliver of time, this became a reasonable depiction:

In the 330s BCE, Alexander the Great conquered the area now called Palestine, and the region changed hands numerous times during the wars of the Diadochi, ultimately joining the Seleucid Empire between 219 and 200 BCE. In 116 BCE, a Seleucid civil war resulted in the independence of certain regions including the minor Hasmonean principality in the Judean Mountains. From 110 BCE, the Hasmoneans extended their authority over much of the area, creating a Judean–Samaritan–Idumaean–Ituraean–Galilean alliance.[3] The Judean (Jewish, see Ioudaioi) control over the wider region resulted in it also becoming known as Judaea, a term that had previously only referred to the smaller region of the Judean Mountains. During 73–63 BCE, the Roman Republic extended its influence into the region in the Third Mithridatic War, conquering Judea in 63 BCE, and splitting the former Hasmonean Kingdom into five districts. In 70 CE, Titussacked Jerusalem, resulting in the dispersal of the city's Jews and Christians to Yavne and Pella. In 132 CE, Hadrian joined the province of Judaea with Galilee to form a new province and renamed it Syria Palaestina, and Jerusalem was renamed "Aelia Capitolina". During 259–272, the region fell under the rule of Odaenathus as King of the Palmyrene Empire. Following the victory of Christian emperor Constantine in the Civil Wars of the Tetrarchy (306–324), the Christianization of the Roman Empire began, and in 326, Constantine's mother Saint Helena visited Jerusalem and began the construction of churches and shrines. Palestine became a center of Christianity, attracting numerous monks and religious scholars. The Samaritan Revolts during this period caused their near extinction. SOURCE: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Kingdom of Jerusalem changed hands so many times in the 12th Century that nearly every major power (except the Arabs of Palestine) could establish some claim historically during the medieval life and times of the Southern Levant.

It does not really matter in contemporary times. What does matter is what the Arab Palestinians want that will be reasonably and practically implemented. Out of their demands, what can actually be accomplished to secure a regional peace; one which is not dependent on the word or pledge of honor by the Arab.

What is reasonable and will keep the Jewish National Home intact and secure from hostile control, attack and annihilation.

Most Respectfully,
R

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

Thanks to the Arabs who started all the violence.

How can indigenous people resisting foreign settlers be accused of starting any violence? That's like claiming the native americans started the violence when they attacked the Spanish.

Post of the day!

You mean


RACIST ISLAMOMORON LIE OF THE DAY

What Islamic about the Native Americans defending themselves from the Spanish?

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times, it is a wonder that the sands are not stained red by all the blood spilt over it. Over that specific sliver of time, this became a reasonable depiction:

In the 330s BCE, Alexander the Great conquered the area now called Palestine, and the region changed hands numerous times during the wars of the Diadochi, ultimately joining the Seleucid Empire between 219 and 200 BCE. In 116 BCE, a Seleucid civil war resulted in the independence of certain regions including the minor Hasmonean principality in the Judean Mountains. From 110 BCE, the Hasmoneans extended their authority over much of the area, creating a Judean–Samaritan–Idumaean–Ituraean–Galilean alliance.[3] The Judean (Jewish, see Ioudaioi) control over the wider region resulted in it also becoming known as Judaea, a term that had previously only referred to the smaller region of the Judean Mountains. During 73–63 BCE, the Roman Republic extended its influence into the region in the Third Mithridatic War, conquering Judea in 63 BCE, and splitting the former Hasmonean Kingdom into five districts. In 70 CE, Titussacked Jerusalem, resulting in the dispersal of the city's Jews and Christians to Yavne and Pella. In 132 CE, Hadrian joined the province of Judaea with Galilee to form a new province and renamed it Syria Palaestina, and Jerusalem was renamed "Aelia Capitolina". During 259–272, the region fell under the rule of Odaenathus as King of the Palmyrene Empire. Following the victory of Christian emperor Constantine in the Civil Wars of the Tetrarchy (306–324), the Christianization of the Roman Empire began, and in 326, Constantine's mother Saint Helena visited Jerusalem and began the construction of churches and shrines. Palestine became a center of Christianity, attracting numerous monks and religious scholars. The Samaritan Revolts during this period caused their near extinction. SOURCE: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Palestine was part of the Christian Eastern Roman Empire prior to the Muslim conquest

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Kingdom of Jerusalem changed hands so many times in the 12th Century that nearly every major power (except the Arabs of Palestine) could establish some claim historically during the medieval life and times of the Southern Levant.

It does not really matter in contemporary times. What does matter is what the Arab Palestinians want that will be reasonably and practically implemented. Out of their demands, what can actually be accomplished to secure a regional peace; one which is not dependent on the word or pledge of honor by the Arab.

What is reasonable and will keep the Jewish National Home intact and secure from hostile control, attack and annihilation.

Most Respectfully,
R

What is reasonable is that the Christians and Muslims of Palestine, who were dispossessed by the European settlers, achieve what all other people colonized by the Europeans in the late 19th and 20th have achieved. Their freedom and independence from the hostile control of the colonizers.

MORE ISLAMOMORON RACIST LIES. the muslims were the ones dispossessing the Christians and Jews until the Jews formed defence groups and fought back. And now they have their independence and National home that the arab muslims cant do anything about. So they form propaganda groups like yours that spew RACIST LIES

Why do you continue making things up? You truly have a problem with reality.

"75 percent of the Palestinian Arab population, including Christians, of what is now the State of Israel became refugees. Entire Christian villages were destroyed by Israel; and tens of thousands of Christians were expelled. Some areas of today’s west Jerusalem, such as Talbiya and Katamon, were home to thousands of Palestinian Christians whose homes were looted and private property confiscated."

The plight of Palestinian Christians - Opinion - Jerusalem Post

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times, it is a wonder that the sands are not stained red by all the blood spilt over it. Over that specific sliver of time, this became a reasonable depiction:

In the 330s BCE, Alexander the Great conquered the area now called Palestine, and the region changed hands numerous times during the wars of the Diadochi, ultimately joining the Seleucid Empire between 219 and 200 BCE. In 116 BCE, a Seleucid civil war resulted in the independence of certain regions including the minor Hasmonean principality in the Judean Mountains. From 110 BCE, the Hasmoneans extended their authority over much of the area, creating a Judean–Samaritan–Idumaean–Ituraean–Galilean alliance.[3] The Judean (Jewish, see Ioudaioi) control over the wider region resulted in it also becoming known as Judaea, a term that had previously only referred to the smaller region of the Judean Mountains. During 73–63 BCE, the Roman Republic extended its influence into the region in the Third Mithridatic War, conquering Judea in 63 BCE, and splitting the former Hasmonean Kingdom into five districts. In 70 CE, Titussacked Jerusalem, resulting in the dispersal of the city's Jews and Christians to Yavne and Pella. In 132 CE, Hadrian joined the province of Judaea with Galilee to form a new province and renamed it Syria Palaestina, and Jerusalem was renamed "Aelia Capitolina". During 259–272, the region fell under the rule of Odaenathus as King of the Palmyrene Empire. Following the victory of Christian emperor Constantine in the Civil Wars of the Tetrarchy (306–324), the Christianization of the Roman Empire began, and in 326, Constantine's mother Saint Helena visited Jerusalem and began the construction of churches and shrines. Palestine became a center of Christianity, attracting numerous monks and religious scholars. The Samaritan Revolts during this period caused their near extinction. SOURCE: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Palestine was part of the Christian Eastern Roman Empire prior to the Muslim conquest

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Kingdom of Jerusalem changed hands so many times in the 12th Century that nearly every major power (except the Arabs of Palestine) could establish some claim historically during the medieval life and times of the Southern Levant.

It does not really matter in contemporary times. What does matter is what the Arab Palestinians want that will be reasonably and practically implemented. Out of their demands, what can actually be accomplished to secure a regional peace; one which is not dependent on the word or pledge of honor by the Arab.

What is reasonable and will keep the Jewish National Home intact and secure from hostile control, attack and annihilation.

Most Respectfully,
R

What is reasonable is that the Christians and Muslims of Palestine, who were dispossessed by the European settlers, achieve what all other people colonized by the Europeans in the late 19th and 20th have achieved. Their freedom and independence from the hostile control of the colonizers.

MORE ISLAMOMORON RACIST LIES. the muslims were the ones dispossessing the Christians and Jews until the Jews formed defence groups and fought back. And now they have their independence and National home that the arab muslims cant do anything about. So they form propaganda groups like yours that spew RACIST LIES

Why do you continue making things up? You truly have a problem with reality.

"75 percent of the Palestinian Arab population, including Christians, of what is now the State of Israel became refugees. Entire Christian villages were destroyed by Israel; and tens of thousands of Christians were expelled. Some areas of today’s west Jerusalem, such as Talbiya and Katamon, were home to thousands of Palestinian Christians whose homes were looted and private property confiscated."

The plight of Palestinian Christians - Opinion - Jerusalem Post

At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.

In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.

Forgotten Christians The American Conservative​

 

[Phoenall]

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

Thanks to the Arabs who started all the violence.

How can indigenous people resisting foreign settlers be accused of starting any violence? That's like claiming the native americans started the violence when they attacked the Spanish.

Post of the day!

You mean


RACIST ISLAMOMORON LIE OF THE DAY

What Islamic about the Native Americans defending themselves from the Spanish?

No hes posts about Israel and the Jews

 

[Phoenall]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times, it is a wonder that the sands are not stained red by all the blood spilt over it. Over that specific sliver of time, this became a reasonable depiction:

In the 330s BCE, Alexander the Great conquered the area now called Palestine, and the region changed hands numerous times during the wars of the Diadochi, ultimately joining the Seleucid Empire between 219 and 200 BCE. In 116 BCE, a Seleucid civil war resulted in the independence of certain regions including the minor Hasmonean principality in the Judean Mountains. From 110 BCE, the Hasmoneans extended their authority over much of the area, creating a Judean–Samaritan–Idumaean–Ituraean–Galilean alliance.[3] The Judean (Jewish, see Ioudaioi) control over the wider region resulted in it also becoming known as Judaea, a term that had previously only referred to the smaller region of the Judean Mountains. During 73–63 BCE, the Roman Republic extended its influence into the region in the Third Mithridatic War, conquering Judea in 63 BCE, and splitting the former Hasmonean Kingdom into five districts. In 70 CE, Titussacked Jerusalem, resulting in the dispersal of the city's Jews and Christians to Yavne and Pella. In 132 CE, Hadrian joined the province of Judaea with Galilee to form a new province and renamed it Syria Palaestina, and Jerusalem was renamed "Aelia Capitolina". During 259–272, the region fell under the rule of Odaenathus as King of the Palmyrene Empire. Following the victory of Christian emperor Constantine in the Civil Wars of the Tetrarchy (306–324), the Christianization of the Roman Empire began, and in 326, Constantine's mother Saint Helena visited Jerusalem and began the construction of churches and shrines. Palestine became a center of Christianity, attracting numerous monks and religious scholars. The Samaritan Revolts during this period caused their near extinction. SOURCE: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Palestine was part of the Christian Eastern Roman Empire prior to the Muslim conquest

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Kingdom of Jerusalem changed hands so many times in the 12th Century that nearly every major power (except the Arabs of Palestine) could establish some claim historically during the medieval life and times of the Southern Levant.

It does not really matter in contemporary times. What does matter is what the Arab Palestinians want that will be reasonably and practically implemented. Out of their demands, what can actually be accomplished to secure a regional peace; one which is not dependent on the word or pledge of honor by the Arab.

What is reasonable and will keep the Jewish National Home intact and secure from hostile control, attack and annihilation.

Most Respectfully,
R

What is reasonable is that the Christians and Muslims of Palestine, who were dispossessed by the European settlers, achieve what all other people colonized by the Europeans in the late 19th and 20th have achieved. Their freedom and independence from the hostile control of the colonizers.

MORE ISLAMOMORON RACIST LIES. the muslims were the ones dispossessing the Christians and Jews until the Jews formed defence groups and fought back. And now they have their independence and National home that the arab muslims cant do anything about. So they form propaganda groups like yours that spew RACIST LIES

Why do you continue making things up? You truly have a problem with reality.

"75 percent of the Palestinian Arab population, including Christians, of what is now the State of Israel became refugees. Entire Christian villages were destroyed by Israel; and tens of thousands of Christians were expelled. Some areas of today’s west Jerusalem, such as Talbiya and Katamon, were home to thousands of Palestinian Christians whose homes were looted and private property confiscated."

The plight of Palestinian Christians - Opinion - Jerusalem Post

At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.

In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.

Forgotten Christians The American Conservative​

Such is war, and blame the arab muslims for it all

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

They should all strap on vests and blow themselves up

 

[Roudy]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times, it is a wonder that the sands are not stained red by all the blood spilt over it. Over that specific sliver of time, this became a reasonable depiction:

In the 330s BCE, Alexander the Great conquered the area now called Palestine, and the region changed hands numerous times during the wars of the Diadochi, ultimately joining the Seleucid Empire between 219 and 200 BCE. In 116 BCE, a Seleucid civil war resulted in the independence of certain regions including the minor Hasmonean principality in the Judean Mountains. From 110 BCE, the Hasmoneans extended their authority over much of the area, creating a Judean–Samaritan–Idumaean–Ituraean–Galilean alliance.[3] The Judean (Jewish, see Ioudaioi) control over the wider region resulted in it also becoming known as Judaea, a term that had previously only referred to the smaller region of the Judean Mountains. During 73–63 BCE, the Roman Republic extended its influence into the region in the Third Mithridatic War, conquering Judea in 63 BCE, and splitting the former Hasmonean Kingdom into five districts. In 70 CE, Titussacked Jerusalem, resulting in the dispersal of the city's Jews and Christians to Yavne and Pella. In 132 CE, Hadrian joined the province of Judaea with Galilee to form a new province and renamed it Syria Palaestina, and Jerusalem was renamed "Aelia Capitolina". During 259–272, the region fell under the rule of Odaenathus as King of the Palmyrene Empire. Following the victory of Christian emperor Constantine in the Civil Wars of the Tetrarchy (306–324), the Christianization of the Roman Empire began, and in 326, Constantine's mother Saint Helena visited Jerusalem and began the construction of churches and shrines. Palestine became a center of Christianity, attracting numerous monks and religious scholars. The Samaritan Revolts during this period caused their near extinction. SOURCE: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Palestine was part of the Christian Eastern Roman Empire prior to the Muslim conquest

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Kingdom of Jerusalem changed hands so many times in the 12th Century that nearly every major power (except the Arabs of Palestine) could establish some claim historically during the medieval life and times of the Southern Levant.

It does not really matter in contemporary times. What does matter is what the Arab Palestinians want that will be reasonably and practically implemented. Out of their demands, what can actually be accomplished to secure a regional peace; one which is not dependent on the word or pledge of honor by the Arab.

What is reasonable and will keep the Jewish National Home intact and secure from hostile control, attack and annihilation.

Most Respectfully,
R

What is reasonable is that the Christians and Muslims of Palestine, who were dispossessed by the European settlers, achieve what all other people colonized by the Europeans in the late 19th and 20th have achieved. Their freedom and independence from the hostile control of the colonizers.

MORE ISLAMOMORON RACIST LIES. the muslims were the ones dispossessing the Christians and Jews until the Jews formed defence groups and fought back. And now they have their independence and National home that the arab muslims cant do anything about. So they form propaganda groups like yours that spew RACIST LIES

Why do you continue making things up? You truly have a problem with reality.

"75 percent of the Palestinian Arab population, including Christians, of what is now the State of Israel became refugees. Entire Christian villages were destroyed by Israel; and tens of thousands of Christians were expelled. Some areas of today’s west Jerusalem, such as Talbiya and Katamon, were home to thousands of Palestinian Christians whose homes were looted and private property confiscated."

The plight of Palestinian Christians - Opinion - Jerusalem Post

Worthless opinion piece, of course. You should praise allah that Israel is a democracy that allows anybody to say whatever crap they feel like.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, here is something to agree with.

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

(COMMENT)

Well, first off --- that peaceful period was under the sovereign control of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It was not a result of any peaceful pursuits of autonomous efforts of the Arabs.

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take. They did not have to extend those rights to the govern. They did so because they felt it was the right thing to do. A set of decisions they have come to regret. At that time, the Arabs had virtually nothing to do with the creation of those rights as they were totally alien concepts to the Arab Muslims. Who --- became citizens of the (whatever geography they determined was) territory to which the Mandate applied --- was a decision of the Allied Powers and the Council; not a decision of the Arabs --- and not a decision of the Ottomans or the Turks.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

(COMMENT)

Well not exactly. The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers. In fact, the first office of governance over the entire region was The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA 1918-1920). It was territory lost in war --- and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.

The death and destruction over that very small path of land was not entirely the fault of the Arab; but, pretty damn close. Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas. Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

"The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers..."

No, the Arabs of the region participated in the Great Arab Revolt against the Turks allied with the British.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, here is something to agree with.

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

(COMMENT)

Well, first off --- that peaceful period was under the sovereign control of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It was not a result of any peaceful pursuits of autonomous efforts of the Arabs.

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take. They did not have to extend those rights to the govern. They did so because they felt it was the right thing to do. A set of decisions they have come to regret. At that time, the Arabs had virtually nothing to do with the creation of those rights as they were totally alien concepts to the Arab Muslims. Who --- became citizens of the (whatever geography they determined was) territory to which the Mandate applied --- was a decision of the Allied Powers and the Council; not a decision of the Arabs --- and not a decision of the Ottomans or the Turks.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

(COMMENT)

Well not exactly. The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers. In fact, the first office of governance over the entire region was The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA 1918-1920). It was territory lost in war --- and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.

The death and destruction over that very small path of land was not entirely the fault of the Arab; but, pretty damn close. Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas. Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas.​

Do have links to that crap?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, here is something to agree with.

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

(COMMENT)

Well, first off --- that peaceful period was under the sovereign control of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It was not a result of any peaceful pursuits of autonomous efforts of the Arabs.

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take. They did not have to extend those rights to the govern. They did so because they felt it was the right thing to do. A set of decisions they have come to regret. At that time, the Arabs had virtually nothing to do with the creation of those rights as they were totally alien concepts to the Arab Muslims. Who --- became citizens of the (whatever geography they determined was) territory to which the Mandate applied --- was a decision of the Allied Powers and the Council; not a decision of the Arabs --- and not a decision of the Ottomans or the Turks.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

(COMMENT)

Well not exactly. The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers. In fact, the first office of governance over the entire region was The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA 1918-1920). It was territory lost in war --- and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.

The death and destruction over that very small path of land was not entirely the fault of the Arab; but, pretty damn close. Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas. Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.​

You forgot to mention inside Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, here is something to agree with.

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

(COMMENT)

Well, first off --- that peaceful period was under the sovereign control of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It was not a result of any peaceful pursuits of autonomous efforts of the Arabs.

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take. They did not have to extend those rights to the govern. They did so because they felt it was the right thing to do. A set of decisions they have come to regret. At that time, the Arabs had virtually nothing to do with the creation of those rights as they were totally alien concepts to the Arab Muslims. Who --- became citizens of the (whatever geography they determined was) territory to which the Mandate applied --- was a decision of the Allied Powers and the Council; not a decision of the Arabs --- and not a decision of the Ottomans or the Turks.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

(COMMENT)

Well not exactly. The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers. In fact, the first office of governance over the entire region was The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA 1918-1920). It was territory lost in war --- and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.

The death and destruction over that very small path of land was not entirely the fault of the Arab; but, pretty damn close. Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas. Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

...and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.​

Then why do UN resolutions say that the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity if they have no territory?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, here is something to agree with.

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

(COMMENT)

Well, first off --- that peaceful period was under the sovereign control of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It was not a result of any peaceful pursuits of autonomous efforts of the Arabs.

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take. They did not have to extend those rights to the govern. They did so because they felt it was the right thing to do. A set of decisions they have come to regret. At that time, the Arabs had virtually nothing to do with the creation of those rights as they were totally alien concepts to the Arab Muslims. Who --- became citizens of the (whatever geography they determined was) territory to which the Mandate applied --- was a decision of the Allied Powers and the Council; not a decision of the Arabs --- and not a decision of the Ottomans or the Turks.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

(COMMENT)

Well not exactly. The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers. In fact, the first office of governance over the entire region was The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA 1918-1920). It was territory lost in war --- and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.

The death and destruction over that very small path of land was not entirely the fault of the Arab; but, pretty damn close. Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas. Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take.​

Then Britain came by catering to the agenda of foreigners and fucked that up. There has been nothing but death and destruction ever since. Britain took the low road.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You, yourself have attempted to justify that the Arab Palestinian has the right to attack civilian Israeli objects; to use any and all means including terrorism.

Posting #156 in which you try to argue that it is OK (not a crime) for Palestinians to Kill members of the Occupying Power because it is not a crime ("The nationals of an occupying power are not protected persons."). What you did not tell them is that a Palestinian who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, or a grave collective danger, or seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, or is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, IS punishable under Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. This is very similar to the justification you used (Post #99) to defend the use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature.

Another one of my favorites is Posting #29 wherein you argue that HAMAS cannot be a terrorist organization ("whole terrorist name calling thing is a load of horse crap") because "Hamas does not fight outside its own territory and does not attack protected persons." This suggests that Israel is not sovereign and that attacks on Israel are purely domestic (contained within a Palestinian State); (you argument being that "HAMAS does not operate outside of Palestine") so "How is that international?" (Post #40) Talk about a bunch of crap.

• Posting #7
• Posting #70
• Posting #76
• Posting #110

Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas.​

​

Do have links to that crap?

(OBSERVATION)

Watch: Hamas Official Heaps Praise on 'Heroic' Kidnap Operation
Hamas 'political bureau' official Muhammad Nazal, hails abduction of three Israeli teenagers as a 'milestone in the Palestinian struggle'.

Netanyahu: Mashal made it clear Hamas was committed to fighting Israel
Prime minister addresses Abbas condemnation of kidnapping for the first time, saying if the PA president really means them, he is obligated to end his pact with Hamas.

Hamas Calls Special Press Conference, Says Nothing Important
Hamas (Hamas senior official, Salah Bardawil) claims they didn’t kidnap the boys, but they praise whoever did.

(COMMENT)

As I've said before, one of the many faces of Arab Palestinian terrorism is the use of violent acts intended to create and instill fear in the mind of non-combatants (civilians), perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; which deliberately target of non-combatants. Which is not only advocating the attack on civilians in violation of Rule #6 (Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.) of Customary IHL and Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to Part IV : Civilian population #Section I -- General protection against effects of hostilities.

In an article published July 16, 2013, a Senior Hamas Official, Dr 'Issam Adwan, former Minister of Palestinian Refugee Affairs, stated that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) Is Entitled To Attack:

• Israel's Embassies,
• Israeli Interests,
• Israeli Officials Worldwide –
• The Interests of Israeli Allies, supporting the US
• (And of course) US interests.

They glorify the Jihadist and Fedayeen that engage and kill civilian non-combatants.

Now, you are not going to tell me that you did not know that Palestinians killed half the Israeli Olympic Team in Munich; of when they hijacked El Al Flight 426 (1968), Dawson's Field Hijackings (1970), Air France Flight 139 (1976), Lufthansa Flight 181 (1977), TWA Flight 847 (1985), EgyptAir Flight 648 (1985), and Pan Am Flight 73 (1986). Or who remembers when the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) hijacked the Italian MS Achille Lauro liner off the coast of Egypt. And just how many rocket and mortars have the Palestinians fired (18,928 Rocket & Mortar attacks between 2001-2014)?

And there just isn't enough space here for me to append the charts for all the bombings:

• 2001 (40 bombings)
• 2002 (47 bombings)
• 2003 (23 bombings)
• 2004 (17 bombings)
• 2005 (9 bombings)

And these are actions and not words. The language of the Hostile Arab Palestinian has not changed since 1948. The tone is just updated. Even as we speak, they boast about reconstructing tunnels into Israeli sovereignty.

• HAMAS using Heavy Machinery to accelerate Attack Tunnels
• Business Insider
  • AVI ISSACHAROFF, THE TIMES OF ISRAEL
  • APR. 15, 2015,
  Hamas has begun using heavy machinery and engineering tools to accelerate the excavation of attack tunnels leading from the Gaza Strip under the Israeli border, sources in the Palestinian enclave told the Times of Israel Wednesday.

I think this makes my point that there are plenty of "LINKS" out there that demonstrate you perspective as well as how the Palestine both dramatize and demonstrate their position on advocating violence and attempting to present that they have some special dispensation to attack both civilians and the Occupation Force.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are not listening.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, here is something to agree with.

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

(COMMENT)

Well, first off --- that peaceful period was under the sovereign control of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It was not a result of any peaceful pursuits of autonomous efforts of the Arabs.

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take. They did not have to extend those rights to the govern. They did so because they felt it was the right thing to do. A set of decisions they have come to regret. At that time, the Arabs had virtually nothing to do with the creation of those rights as they were totally alien concepts to the Arab Muslims. Who --- became citizens of the (whatever geography they determined was) territory to which the Mandate applied --- was a decision of the Allied Powers and the Council; not a decision of the Arabs --- and not a decision of the Ottomans or the Turks.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

(COMMENT)

Well not exactly. The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers. In fact, the first office of governance over the entire region was The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA 1918-1920). It was territory lost in war --- and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.

The death and destruction over that very small path of land was not entirely the fault of the Arab; but, pretty damn close. Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas. Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

...and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.​

Then why do UN resolutions say that the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity if they have no territory?

(COMMENT)

The Palestine (defined as the territory to which the Mandate applied) is pre-1945. The State of Palestine (defined by the Declaration of Independence of 1988) is an entirely different place and time. The territorial integrity of today's contemporary Palestine Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967; not the HAMAS or PLO Palestine --- as defined "from the river to the sea, and from north to south," and qualified the "land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right."

Remember, The Palestinians have no borders or demarcations to rely upon. The Israelis do.

Someday when the Palestinians negotiate their sovereignty, they can apply their right of territorial integrity. Everyone has the right to earn a billion dollars if you want. I have that right and you have that right. It just so happens that Warren Buffet has that right. Warren Buffet was smart and hard working and earn an estimated net worth US$70.9 Billion (April 2015). Why do you and I have the right, but not the money. Well we were not as smart as Warren Buffet, or as hard working as Warren Buffet. But if we do ever amass $70 Billion --- we can reach in our back pocket and pull out that right to earn it. The same goes for the Palestinian and their rights. Just because you have a right, doesn't mean you have the object of that right.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, I guess that I could go back in the record and find links.

Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas.​

Do have links to that crap?

(COMMENT)

Links are any where you look. Google these.

• Old People: Moshe Gottlieb, 70, of Los Angeles, CA was killed in a bus bombing in Jerusalem.
• School age: The Shaar HaNegev school bus attack was a missile attack on 7 April 2011
• Infirm: MS Achille Lauro, as it was sailing from Alexandria, Egypt, to Israel. The Palestinian terrorist murdered a disabled man, Leon Klinghoffer, by throwing him in the ocean in his wheelchair.
• Clergy: Two Palestinian cousins carrying knives, axes and guns stormed a Jerusalem synagogue and killed Aryeh Kupinsky and fellow American rabbis Kalman Levine, and Moshe Twersky, and two other worshipers.

All these are in the news; and many more.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are not listening.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, here is something to agree with.

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

(COMMENT)

Well, first off --- that peaceful period was under the sovereign control of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It was not a result of any peaceful pursuits of autonomous efforts of the Arabs.

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take. They did not have to extend those rights to the govern. They did so because they felt it was the right thing to do. A set of decisions they have come to regret. At that time, the Arabs had virtually nothing to do with the creation of those rights as they were totally alien concepts to the Arab Muslims. Who --- became citizens of the (whatever geography they determined was) territory to which the Mandate applied --- was a decision of the Allied Powers and the Council; not a decision of the Arabs --- and not a decision of the Ottomans or the Turks.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

(COMMENT)

Well not exactly. The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers. In fact, the first office of governance over the entire region was The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA 1918-1920). It was territory lost in war --- and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.

The death and destruction over that very small path of land was not entirely the fault of the Arab; but, pretty damn close. Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas. Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

...and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.​

Then why do UN resolutions say that the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity if they have no territory?

(COMMENT)

The Palestine (defined as the territory to which the Mandate applied) is pre-1945. The State of Palestine (defined by the Declaration of Independence of 1988) is an entirely different place and time. The territorial integrity of today's contemporary Palestine Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967; not the HAMAS or PLO Palestine --- as defined "from the river to the sea, and from north to south," and qualified the "land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right."

Remember, The Palestinians have no borders or demarcations to rely upon. The Israelis do.

Someday when the Palestinians negotiate their sovereignty, they can apply their right of territorial integrity. Everyone has the right to earn a billion dollars if you want. I have that right and you have that right. It just so happens that Warren Buffet has that right. Warren Buffet was smart and hard working and earn an estimated net worth US$70.9 Billion (April 2015). Why do you and I have the right, but not the money. Well we were not as smart as Warren Buffet, or as hard working as Warren Buffet. But if we do ever amass $70 Billion --- we can reach in our back pocket and pull out that right to earn it. The same goes for the Palestinian and their rights. Just because you have a right, doesn't mean you have the object of that right.

Most Respectfully,
R

Remember, The Palestinians have no borders or demarcations to rely upon. The Israelis do.

You have that backwards.

Palestine has international borders.

Israel is defined by armistice lines.

Then you base the rest of your post of false premise.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, I guess that I could go back in the record and find links.

Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas.​

Do have links to that crap?

(COMMENT)

Links are any where you look. Google these.

• Old People: Moshe Gottlieb, 70, of Los Angeles, CA was killed in a bus bombing in Jerusalem.
• School age: The Shaar HaNegev school bus attack was a missile attack on 7 April 2011
• Infirm: MS Achille Lauro, as it was sailing from Alexandria, Egypt, to Israel. The Palestinian terrorist murdered a disabled man, Leon Klinghoffer, by throwing him in the ocean in his wheelchair.
• Clergy: Two Palestinian cousins carrying knives, axes and guns stormed a Jerusalem synagogue and killed Aryeh Kupinsky and fellow American rabbis Kalman Levine, and Moshe Twersky, and two other worshipers.

All these are in the news; and many more.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are talking about years.

Israel has had better days than that.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are not listening.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, here is something to agree with.

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

(COMMENT)

Well, first off --- that peaceful period was under the sovereign control of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It was not a result of any peaceful pursuits of autonomous efforts of the Arabs.

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take. They did not have to extend those rights to the govern. They did so because they felt it was the right thing to do. A set of decisions they have come to regret. At that time, the Arabs had virtually nothing to do with the creation of those rights as they were totally alien concepts to the Arab Muslims. Who --- became citizens of the (whatever geography they determined was) territory to which the Mandate applied --- was a decision of the Allied Powers and the Council; not a decision of the Arabs --- and not a decision of the Ottomans or the Turks.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

(COMMENT)

Well not exactly. The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers. In fact, the first office of governance over the entire region was The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA 1918-1920). It was territory lost in war --- and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.

The death and destruction over that very small path of land was not entirely the fault of the Arab; but, pretty damn close. Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas. Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

...and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.​

Then why do UN resolutions say that the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity if they have no territory?

(COMMENT)

The Palestine (defined as the territory to which the Mandate applied) is pre-1945. The State of Palestine (defined by the Declaration of Independence of 1988) is an entirely different place and time. The territorial integrity of today's contemporary Palestine Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967; not the HAMAS or PLO Palestine --- as defined "from the river to the sea, and from north to south," and qualified the "land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right."

Remember, The Palestinians have no borders or demarcations to rely upon. The Israelis do.

Someday when the Palestinians negotiate their sovereignty, they can apply their right of territorial integrity. Everyone has the right to earn a billion dollars if you want. I have that right and you have that right. It just so happens that Warren Buffet has that right. Warren Buffet was smart and hard working and earn an estimated net worth US$70.9 Billion (April 2015). Why do you and I have the right, but not the money. Well we were not as smart as Warren Buffet, or as hard working as Warren Buffet. But if we do ever amass $70 Billion --- we can reach in our back pocket and pull out that right to earn it. The same goes for the Palestinian and their rights. Just because you have a right, doesn't mean you have the object of that right.

Most Respectfully,
R

sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967; not the HAMAS or PLO Palestine --- as defined "from the river to the sea, and from north to south," and qualified the "land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right."

That does not look correct.

...before a lasting peace can be established in Palestine is the question of
the disposition of the more than 700,000 Arab refugees who during the
Palestine conflict fled from their homes in what is now Israeli occupied
territory and are at present living as refugees in Arab Palestine and
the neighboring Arab states.

FRUS Foreign relations of the United States 1949. The Near East South Asia and Africa Israel

The June 1967 Arab-Israeli War resulted in a vast expansion of the Zionist colonial project in Palestine, a seizure of territory that much of the world recognizes as an illegal occupation. But it wasn’t the first illegitimate occupation.

That first occupation began with a project calling itself the State of Israel. Its armed wing is known as the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). It occupied Western Palestine in 1948 and still does to this day.

Occupation of Palestine started in 1948

...and Palestinians living as Israeli citizens in 1948 occupied Palestine...

1948 Internally Displaced Persons Palestinians

The 69-page book explores the emergence of these parties and their programs and their influence in the political life of the Palestinians in the 1948 occupied territories.

Al-Zaytouna Centre - Information Report 25 Arab Parties in 1948 Occupied Palestine in Israel

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are not listening.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, here is something to agree with.

Yes, that region of the world has flip-flopped so many times,...​

​

So true, however, it was relatively stable and peaceful during the Ottoman period. When Palestine was carved out after WWI, all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens. There is no evidence that that amicable relationship would not continue.

(COMMENT)

Well, first off --- that peaceful period was under the sovereign control of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. It was not a result of any peaceful pursuits of autonomous efforts of the Arabs.

The fact that "all of the people who lived there became Palestinian citizens" was a consequence of the Principle Allied Powers deciding that was the high road they wanted to take. They did not have to extend those rights to the govern. They did so because they felt it was the right thing to do. A set of decisions they have come to regret. At that time, the Arabs had virtually nothing to do with the creation of those rights as they were totally alien concepts to the Arab Muslims. Who --- became citizens of the (whatever geography they determined was) territory to which the Mandate applied --- was a decision of the Allied Powers and the Council; not a decision of the Arabs --- and not a decision of the Ottomans or the Turks.

Then Britain landed with the Balfour Declaration in its pocket and fucked everything up big time. There has been nothing but death and destruction since.

(COMMENT)

Well not exactly. The Arabs of that region and the Ottoman were enemies of the Allied Powers. In fact, the first office of governance over the entire region was The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA 1918-1920). It was territory lost in war --- and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.

The death and destruction over that very small path of land was not entirely the fault of the Arab; but, pretty damn close. Even today, the Arab Palestinian desperately tries to argue and claim that they have the right to suicide bomb, ambush, --- kidnap and kill civilians in every sort of helpless category (the old, infirm, school age, clergy, etc) they claim they have the right to hijack ships and conduct piracy on the high seas. Every day they demonstrate that the need to carve-out a special plot of land is necessary and essential to the safety, preservation and development of the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R

...and under the Law of Conquest active in 1918, the captured territory (the area covered by OETA) went to the victors. That customary law was really not set assign until 1945 and the UN Charter granting territorial integrity.​

Then why do UN resolutions say that the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity if they have no territory?

(COMMENT)

The Palestine (defined as the territory to which the Mandate applied) is pre-1945. The State of Palestine (defined by the Declaration of Independence of 1988) is an entirely different place and time. The territorial integrity of today's contemporary Palestine Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967; not the HAMAS or PLO Palestine --- as defined "from the river to the sea, and from north to south," and qualified the "land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right."

Remember, The Palestinians have no borders or demarcations to rely upon. The Israelis do.

Someday when the Palestinians negotiate their sovereignty, they can apply their right of territorial integrity. Everyone has the right to earn a billion dollars if you want. I have that right and you have that right. It just so happens that Warren Buffet has that right. Warren Buffet was smart and hard working and earn an estimated net worth US$70.9 Billion (April 2015). Why do you and I have the right, but not the money. Well we were not as smart as Warren Buffet, or as hard working as Warren Buffet. But if we do ever amass $70 Billion --- we can reach in our back pocket and pull out that right to earn it. The same goes for the Palestinian and their rights. Just because you have a right, doesn't mean you have the object of that right.

Most Respectfully,
R

Remember, The Palestinians have no borders or demarcations to rely upon. The Israelis do.

You have that backwards.

Palestine has international borders.

Israel is defined by armistice lines.

Then you base the rest of your post of false premise.

No, YOU have that wrong. Israel has international boundaries with Egypt and Jordan. That's just a fact. There's no going around that.

"Then you base the rest of your post of false premise"
This is what you post when you have no rebuttal. What exactly did he post that was based on false premise?