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We all know people who are useless in a crisis. What good is a gun to people who lose their mind and freak out when the shit hits the fan? This tendency to panic is not something that can be easily overcome.I doubt that anyone would argue with this. Those people who are not responsible enough to have a gun (at least in their home) however, might be advised to seek counseling to better themselves.The word "responsible gun ownership" gets used a lot when we all know that not everyone is responsible. It follows that not everyone should have a gun. It can be argued that a person who does not own a gun is in some way practicing responsible gun ownership by admitting to themselves that they shouldn't have one for whatever reason.There is a lot of fear of guns that liberals typically have . Most of them are not in occupations where guns are carried, or have any military background.Yeah, they are stupid. My wifes high school friend is so ignorant on guns It's scary. She thinks guns just go off by themselves.The crime channels have become quite popular on TV lately. The many shows they present, show people being beaten, raped, and in many cases killed.
Some of these attacks are shown in disturbing live footage. Others show victims, often women with scarred faces, telling their tales of horror.
The question that begs to be answered is why are these people leaving themselves unarmed and vulnerable ? Anyone who can afford to buy a gun, training, and a license, should do so, to protect themselves and their families.
To not own a gun is an irresponsible and dangerous negligence. Except in a few goofball cities like New York, it is legal to own a pistol being kept in the home, car, or place of business (even without a license).
How sad that people, even women with children, leave themselves vulnerable to the wide assortment of subhuman lowlifes, who abuse them as if it were normal activity.
As such, they are easy prey for anti-gun do-gooders, who saturate them with anti-gun propaganda.
In many cases, the gun is more important to health, than the medical care is.
We all know people who are useless in a crisis. What good is a gun to people who lose their mind and freak out when the shit hits the fan? This tendency to panic is not something that can be easily overcome.I doubt that anyone would argue with this. Those people who are not responsible enough to have a gun (at least in their home) however, might be advised to seek counseling to better themselves.The word "responsible gun ownership" gets used a lot when we all know that not everyone is responsible. It follows that not everyone should have a gun. It can be argued that a person who does not own a gun is in some way practicing responsible gun ownership by admitting to themselves that they shouldn't have one for whatever reason.There is a lot of fear of guns that liberals typically have . Most of them are not in occupations where guns are carried, or have any military background.Yeah, they are stupid. My wifes high school friend is so ignorant on guns It's scary. She thinks guns just go off by themselves.The crime channels have become quite popular on TV lately. The many shows they present, show people being beaten, raped, and in many cases killed.
Some of these attacks are shown in disturbing live footage. Others show victims, often women with scarred faces, telling their tales of horror.
The question that begs to be answered is why are these people leaving themselves unarmed and vulnerable ? Anyone who can afford to buy a gun, training, and a license, should do so, to protect themselves and their families.
To not own a gun is an irresponsible and dangerous negligence. Except in a few goofball cities like New York, it is legal to own a pistol being kept in the home, car, or place of business (even without a license).
How sad that people, even women with children, leave themselves vulnerable to the wide assortment of subhuman lowlifes, who abuse them as if it were normal activity.
As such, they are easy prey for anti-gun do-gooders, who saturate them with anti-gun propaganda.
Not really, no. They are equally "attractive nuisance", causing as much or more crime than they prevent.Correct. They are REAL crime repellants, more than anything else.Guns are not magic crime repellants.
"No one says they are, but they are".Guns are not magic crime repellants.
No one says they are....but the sure way to be raped, murdered or robbed is to be completely unarmed and helpless when a rapist, robber or murderer shows up at your home...
As I stated just before, these lamebrain "studies" are not studies at all. They are deliberate attempts to portray guns as dangerous to the average person, and nothing more.
And more on the Kellerman research...and how it is wrong....
His first research, the much quoted 43% more likely to die from guns in your own home....had to be changed....he later changed the number to 2.7%....and he was still using faulty techniques...
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506
After controlling for these characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7;
------------
Nine Myths Of Gun Control
Myth #6 "A homeowner is 43 times as likely to be killed or kill a family member as an intruder"
To suggest that science has proven that defending oneself or one's family with a gun is dangerous, gun prohibitionists repeat Dr. Kellermann's long discredited claim: "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder." [17] This fallacy , fabricated using tax dollars, is one of the most misused slogans of the anti-self-defense lobby.
The honest measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected not Kellermann's burglar or rapist body count.
Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator. [3]
Any study, such as Kellermann' "43 times" fallacy, that only counts bodies will expectedly underestimate the benefits of gun a thousand fold.
Think for a minute. Would anyone suggest that the only measure of the benefit of law enforcement is the number of people killed by police? Of course not. The honest measure of the benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved by deaths and injuries averted, and the property protected. 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun. [2]
Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times," [18] but he persisted in discredited methodology. He used a method that cannot distinguish between "cause" and "effect." His method would be like finding more diet drinks in the refrigerators of fat people and then concluding that diet drinks "cause" obesity.
Also, he studied groups with high rates of violent criminality, alcoholism, drug addiction, abject poverty, and domestic abuse .
From such a poor and violent study group he attempted to generalize his findings to normal homes
Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.
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Public Health and Gun Control: A Review
Since at least the mid-1980s, Dr. Kellermann (and associates), whose work had been heavily-funded by the CDC, published a series of studies purporting to show that persons who keep guns in the home are more likely to be victims of homicide than those who don¹t.
In a 1986 NEJM paper, Dr. Kellermann and associates, for example, claimed their "scientific research" proved that defending oneself or one¹s family with a firearm in the home is dangerous and counter productive, claiming "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder."8
In a critical review and now classic article published in the March 1994 issue of the Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia (JMAG), Dr. Edgar Suter, Chairman of Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research (DIPR), found evidence of "methodologic and conceptual errors," such as prejudicially truncated data and the listing of "the correct methodology which was described but never used by the authors."5
Moreover, the gun control researchers failed to consider and underestimated the protective benefits of guns.
Dr. Suter writes: "The true measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives and medical costs saved, the injuries prevented, and the property protected ‹ not the burglar or rapist body count.
Since only 0.1 - 0.2 percent of defensive uses of guns involve the death of the criminal, any study, such as this, that counts criminal deaths as the only measure of the protective benefits of guns will expectedly underestimate the benefits of firearms by a factor of 500 to 1,000."5
In 1993, in his landmark and much cited NEJM article (and the research, again, heavily funded by the CDC), Dr. Kellermann attempted to show again that guns in the home are a greater risk to the victims than to the assailants.4 Despite valid criticisms by reputable scholars of his previous works (including the 1986 study), Dr. Kellermann ignored the criticisms and again used the same methodology.
He also used study populations with disproportionately high rates of serious psychosocial dysfunction from three selected state counties, known to be unrepresentative of the general U.S. population.
For example,
53 percent of the case subjects had a history of a household member being arrested,
31 percent had a household history of illicit drug use, 32 percent had a household member hit or hurt in a family fight, and
17 percent had a family member hurt so seriously in a domestic altercation that prompt medical attention was required.
Moreover, both the case studies and control groups in this analysis had a very high incidence of financial instability.
In fact, in this study, gun ownership, the supposedly high risk factor for homicide was not one of the most strongly associated factors for being murdered.
Drinking, illicit drugs, living alone, history of family violence, living in a rented home were all greater individual risk factors for being murdered than a gun in the home. One must conclude there is no basis to apply the conclusions of this study to the general population.
All of these are factors that, as Dr. Suter pointed out, "would expectedly be associated with higher rates of violence and homicide."5
It goes without saying, the results of such a study on gun homicides, selecting this sort of unrepresentative population sample, nullify the authors' generalizations, and their preordained, conclusions can not be extrapolated to the general population.
Moreover, although the 1993 New England Journal of Medicine study purported to show that the homicide victims were killed with a gun ordinarily kept in the home, the fact is that as Kates and associates point out 71.1 percent of the victims were killed by assailants who did not live in the victims¹ household using guns presumably not kept in that home.6
No argument. I am simply saying that putting faith in everyone toting a gun and their ability to use it effectively is foolish. You may have confidence in yourself but what about other people? Not everyone has the cool head required to carry around a pistol all the time and keep it secure yet accessible. If a person is the panicky type I do not see how a gun would do them any good in a crisis.We all know people who are useless in a crisis. What good is a gun to people who lose their mind and freak out when the shit hits the fan? This tendency to panic is not something that can be easily overcome.I doubt that anyone would argue with this. Those people who are not responsible enough to have a gun (at least in their home) however, might be advised to seek counseling to better themselves.The word "responsible gun ownership" gets used a lot when we all know that not everyone is responsible. It follows that not everyone should have a gun. It can be argued that a person who does not own a gun is in some way practicing responsible gun ownership by admitting to themselves that they shouldn't have one for whatever reason.There is a lot of fear of guns that liberals typically have . Most of them are not in occupations where guns are carried, or have any military background.Yeah, they are stupid. My wifes high school friend is so ignorant on guns It's scary. She thinks guns just go off by themselves.
As such, they are easy prey for anti-gun do-gooders, who saturate them with anti-gun propaganda.
And yet, time after time Americans use their legal guns to save lives from rapists, robbers and murderers........ the key is that everyone gets the option to own and carry a gun regardless of what they may or may not be able to do at crunch time...and you don't get to decide before it happens who is or isn't capable....
FALSE! as we have shown right here now in my posts (my study), and by 2aGuy.Not really, no. They are equally "attractive nuisance", causing as much or more crime than they prevent.Correct. They are REAL crime repellants, more than anything else.Guns are not magic crime repellants.
Not really, no. They are equally "attractive nuisance", causing as much or more crime than they prevent.Correct. They are REAL crime repellants, more than anything else.Guns are not magic crime repellants.
It is not that scary out there. I rarely carry my pistol. I have not fired it in years. My 12 gage is all that ever actually gets fired these days with regularity. I use my 223 for cotote hunting some. Bad things happen in bad areas but I stay out of them these days. Back when I was still running a real estate and appraisal buisness I carried one if I had to do work in a bad area of town but most the time if I could get in there by noon befre the crack heads were out of bed I did not even carry one then. Do not live in fear, it sucks to feal that way.The crime channels have become quite popular on TV lately. The many shows they present, show people being beaten, raped, and in many cases killed.
Some of these attacks are shown in disturbing live footage. Others show victims, often women with scarred faces, telling their tales of horror.
The question that begs to be answered is why are these people leaving themselves unarmed and vulnerable ? Anyone who can afford to buy a gun, training, and a license, should do so, to protect themselves and their families.
To not own a gun is an irresponsible and dangerous negligence. Except in a few goofball cities like New York, it is legal to own a pistol being kept in the home, car, or place of business (even without a license).
How sad that people, even women with children, leave themselves vulnerable to the wide assortment of subhuman lowlifes, who abuse them as if it were normal activity.
No argument. I am simply saying that putting faith in everyone toting a gun and their ability to use it effectively is foolish. You may have confidence in yourself but what about other people? Not everyone has the cool head required to carry around a pistol all the time and keep it secure yet accessible. If a person is the panicky type I do not see how a gun would do them any good in a crisis.We all know people who are useless in a crisis. What good is a gun to people who lose their mind and freak out when the shit hits the fan? This tendency to panic is not something that can be easily overcome.I doubt that anyone would argue with this. Those people who are not responsible enough to have a gun (at least in their home) however, might be advised to seek counseling to better themselves.The word "responsible gun ownership" gets used a lot when we all know that not everyone is responsible. It follows that not everyone should have a gun. It can be argued that a person who does not own a gun is in some way practicing responsible gun ownership by admitting to themselves that they shouldn't have one for whatever reason.There is a lot of fear of guns that liberals typically have . Most of them are not in occupations where guns are carried, or have any military background.
As such, they are easy prey for anti-gun do-gooders, who saturate them with anti-gun propaganda.
And yet, time after time Americans use their legal guns to save lives from rapists, robbers and murderers........ the key is that everyone gets the option to own and carry a gun regardless of what they may or may not be able to do at crunch time...and you don't get to decide before it happens who is or isn't capable....
It is not that scary out there. I rarely carry my pistol. I have not fired it in years. My 12 gage is all that ever actually gets fired these days with regularity. I use my 223 for cotote hunting some. Bad things happen in bad areas but I stay out of them these days. Back when I was still running a real estate and appraisal buisness I carried one if I had to do work in a bad area of town but most the time if I could get in there by noon befre the crack heads were out of bed I did not even carry one then. Do not live in fear, it sucks to feal that way.The crime channels have become quite popular on TV lately. The many shows they present, show people being beaten, raped, and in many cases killed.
Some of these attacks are shown in disturbing live footage. Others show victims, often women with scarred faces, telling their tales of horror.
The question that begs to be answered is why are these people leaving themselves unarmed and vulnerable ? Anyone who can afford to buy a gun, training, and a license, should do so, to protect themselves and their families.
To not own a gun is an irresponsible and dangerous negligence. Except in a few goofball cities like New York, it is legal to own a pistol being kept in the home, car, or place of business (even without a license).
How sad that people, even women with children, leave themselves vulnerable to the wide assortment of subhuman lowlifes, who abuse them as if it were normal activity.
I've already agreed that there is a small group of people should not own a gun. This thread is talking about the normal majority of people who should.We all know people who are useless in a crisis. What good is a gun to people who lose their mind and freak out when the shit hits the fan? This tendency to panic is not something that can be easily overcome.I doubt that anyone would argue with this. Those people who are not responsible enough to have a gun (at least in their home) however, might be advised to seek counseling to better themselves.The word "responsible gun ownership" gets used a lot when we all know that not everyone is responsible. It follows that not everyone should have a gun. It can be argued that a person who does not own a gun is in some way practicing responsible gun ownership by admitting to themselves that they shouldn't have one for whatever reason.There is a lot of fear of guns that liberals typically have . Most of them are not in occupations where guns are carried, or have any military background.Yeah, they are stupid. My wifes high school friend is so ignorant on guns It's scary. She thinks guns just go off by themselves.The crime channels have become quite popular on TV lately. The many shows they present, show people being beaten, raped, and in many cases killed.
Some of these attacks are shown in disturbing live footage. Others show victims, often women with scarred faces, telling their tales of horror.
The question that begs to be answered is why are these people leaving themselves unarmed and vulnerable ? Anyone who can afford to buy a gun, training, and a license, should do so, to protect themselves and their families.
To not own a gun is an irresponsible and dangerous negligence. Except in a few goofball cities like New York, it is legal to own a pistol being kept in the home, car, or place of business (even without a license).
How sad that people, even women with children, leave themselves vulnerable to the wide assortment of subhuman lowlifes, who abuse them as if it were normal activity.
As such, they are easy prey for anti-gun do-gooders, who saturate them with anti-gun propaganda.
Yes, but you're saying it too often, when you've already gotten agreement .No argument. I am simply saying that putting faith in everyone toting a gun and their ability to use it effectively is foolish. You may have confidence in yourself but what about other people? Not everyone has the cool head required to carry around a pistol all the time and keep it secure yet accessible. If a person is the panicky type I do not see how a gun would do them any good in a crisis.We all know people who are useless in a crisis. What good is a gun to people who lose their mind and freak out when the shit hits the fan? This tendency to panic is not something that can be easily overcome.I doubt that anyone would argue with this. Those people who are not responsible enough to have a gun (at least in their home) however, might be advised to seek counseling to better themselves.The word "responsible gun ownership" gets used a lot when we all know that not everyone is responsible. It follows that not everyone should have a gun. It can be argued that a person who does not own a gun is in some way practicing responsible gun ownership by admitting to themselves that they shouldn't have one for whatever reason.There is a lot of fear of guns that liberals typically have . Most of them are not in occupations where guns are carried, or have any military background.
As such, they are easy prey for anti-gun do-gooders, who saturate them with anti-gun propaganda.
And yet, time after time Americans use their legal guns to save lives from rapists, robbers and murderers........ the key is that everyone gets the option to own and carry a gun regardless of what they may or may not be able to do at crunch time...and you don't get to decide before it happens who is or isn't capable....
You keep trying to steer this towards gun control when my views are those of a responsible gun owner who sees the arguments used by the right as counter productive and often ludicrous. Not everyone fetishizes weapons as being anything more than a tool to make holes in things.No argument. I am simply saying that putting faith in everyone toting a gun and their ability to use it effectively is foolish. You may have confidence in yourself but what about other people? Not everyone has the cool head required to carry around a pistol all the time and keep it secure yet accessible. If a person is the panicky type I do not see how a gun would do them any good in a crisis.We all know people who are useless in a crisis. What good is a gun to people who lose their mind and freak out when the shit hits the fan? This tendency to panic is not something that can be easily overcome.I doubt that anyone would argue with this. Those people who are not responsible enough to have a gun (at least in their home) however, might be advised to seek counseling to better themselves.The word "responsible gun ownership" gets used a lot when we all know that not everyone is responsible. It follows that not everyone should have a gun. It can be argued that a person who does not own a gun is in some way practicing responsible gun ownership by admitting to themselves that they shouldn't have one for whatever reason.
And yet, time after time Americans use their legal guns to save lives from rapists, robbers and murderers........ the key is that everyone gets the option to own and carry a gun regardless of what they may or may not be able to do at crunch time...and you don't get to decide before it happens who is or isn't capable....
Yep...some can't handle it......so? No one knows how each of us will react in a car in heavy traffic, and cars killed over 38,000 people............We all have the right to own and carry a gun...and we have laws to punish those who misuse the weapon.
You don't get to decide who is or isn't worthy ..... some will fail, but others won't......
It isn't fear, it is intelligence ,(although a little bit of fear isn't such a bad thing.It is not that scary out there. I rarely carry my pistol. I have not fired it in years. My 12 gage is all that ever actually gets fired these days with regularity. I use my 223 for cotote hunting some. Bad things happen in bad areas but I stay out of them these days. Back when I was still running a real estate and appraisal buisness I carried one if I had to do work in a bad area of town but most the time if I could get in there by noon befre the crack heads were out of bed I did not even carry one then. Do not live in fear, it sucks to feal that way.The crime channels have become quite popular on TV lately. The many shows they present, show people being beaten, raped, and in many cases killed.
Some of these attacks are shown in disturbing live footage. Others show victims, often women with scarred faces, telling their tales of horror.
The question that begs to be answered is why are these people leaving themselves unarmed and vulnerable ? Anyone who can afford to buy a gun, training, and a license, should do so, to protect themselves and their families.
To not own a gun is an irresponsible and dangerous negligence. Except in a few goofball cities like New York, it is legal to own a pistol being kept in the home, car, or place of business (even without a license).
How sad that people, even women with children, leave themselves vulnerable to the wide assortment of subhuman lowlifes, who abuse them as if it were normal activity.
I'm not sure what YOU're trying to steer to.You keep trying to steer this towards gun control when my views are those of a responsible gun owner who sees the arguments used by the right as counter productive and often ludicrous. Not everyone fetishizes weapons as being anything more than a tool to make holes in things.No argument. I am simply saying that putting faith in everyone toting a gun and their ability to use it effectively is foolish. You may have confidence in yourself but what about other people? Not everyone has the cool head required to carry around a pistol all the time and keep it secure yet accessible. If a person is the panicky type I do not see how a gun would do them any good in a crisis.We all know people who are useless in a crisis. What good is a gun to people who lose their mind and freak out when the shit hits the fan? This tendency to panic is not something that can be easily overcome.I doubt that anyone would argue with this. Those people who are not responsible enough to have a gun (at least in their home) however, might be advised to seek counseling to better themselves.
And yet, time after time Americans use their legal guns to save lives from rapists, robbers and murderers........ the key is that everyone gets the option to own and carry a gun regardless of what they may or may not be able to do at crunch time...and you don't get to decide before it happens who is or isn't capable....
Yep...some can't handle it......so? No one knows how each of us will react in a car in heavy traffic, and cars killed over 38,000 people............We all have the right to own and carry a gun...and we have laws to punish those who misuse the weapon.
You don't get to decide who is or isn't worthy ..... some will fail, but others won't......
This I agree with but we have some of the paranoid on here preaching fear. I own guns and always have. I always will. If they are respected they are not dangerous like any other tool. That all being said I would rather not be around the paranoid or fearfull that are carying one they make stupid mistakes with them. Get proper training use a level head and guns are a usefull tool for protection and also a way to get out doors get healthy and get a nice meal.It is not that scary out there. I rarely carry my pistol. I have not fired it in years. My 12 gage is all that ever actually gets fired these days with regularity. I use my 223 for cotote hunting some. Bad things happen in bad areas but I stay out of them these days. Back when I was still running a real estate and appraisal buisness I carried one if I had to do work in a bad area of town but most the time if I could get in there by noon befre the crack heads were out of bed I did not even carry one then. Do not live in fear, it sucks to feal that way.The crime channels have become quite popular on TV lately. The many shows they present, show people being beaten, raped, and in many cases killed.
Some of these attacks are shown in disturbing live footage. Others show victims, often women with scarred faces, telling their tales of horror.
The question that begs to be answered is why are these people leaving themselves unarmed and vulnerable ? Anyone who can afford to buy a gun, training, and a license, should do so, to protect themselves and their families.
To not own a gun is an irresponsible and dangerous negligence. Except in a few goofball cities like New York, it is legal to own a pistol being kept in the home, car, or place of business (even without a license).
How sad that people, even women with children, leave themselves vulnerable to the wide assortment of subhuman lowlifes, who abuse them as if it were normal activity.
I don't think most people who own or carry guns live in fear. They own and carry a gun the same way they buckle their seat belt or have a fire alarm in the home.....with just as much emotion.
Nobody is disputing this . Please try to stay within the topic.This I agree with but we have some of the paranoid on here preaching fear. I own guns and always have. I always will. If they are respected they are not dangerous like any other tool. That all being said I would rather not be around the paranoid or fearfull that are carying one they make stupid mistakes with them. Get proper training use a level head and guns are a usefull tool for protection and also a way to get out doors get healthy and get a nice meal.It is not that scary out there. I rarely carry my pistol. I have not fired it in years. My 12 gage is all that ever actually gets fired these days with regularity. I use my 223 for cotote hunting some. Bad things happen in bad areas but I stay out of them these days. Back when I was still running a real estate and appraisal buisness I carried one if I had to do work in a bad area of town but most the time if I could get in there by noon befre the crack heads were out of bed I did not even carry one then. Do not live in fear, it sucks to feal that way.The crime channels have become quite popular on TV lately. The many shows they present, show people being beaten, raped, and in many cases killed.
Some of these attacks are shown in disturbing live footage. Others show victims, often women with scarred faces, telling their tales of horror.
The question that begs to be answered is why are these people leaving themselves unarmed and vulnerable ? Anyone who can afford to buy a gun, training, and a license, should do so, to protect themselves and their families.
To not own a gun is an irresponsible and dangerous negligence. Except in a few goofball cities like New York, it is legal to own a pistol being kept in the home, car, or place of business (even without a license).
How sad that people, even women with children, leave themselves vulnerable to the wide assortment of subhuman lowlifes, who abuse them as if it were normal activity.
I don't think most people who own or carry guns live in fear. They own and carry a gun the same way they buckle their seat belt or have a fire alarm in the home.....with just as much emotion.
