Did we really have to nuke Japan?

[SAYIT]

Elektra, I'm moved on to openly mocking you at this point.

That's because you're a proud idiot, JoeB, who relies on blogger silliness to support his bogus claims, and I mean that with all do respect.

 

[JoeB131]

Horse crap. There is nothing moral or honest about twisting the truth to satisfy your hate for Truman or America.

I agree.

And frankly, I would generally rate Harry Truman as a pretty good president, who made a lot of pretty good calls. The Berlin Airlift, coming to the Aid of Korea, NATO, not bailing the French out in Vietnam, not getting us into the middle of China's civil war.

This wasn't one of them. And you can almost feel bad that he wasn't prepared for the Presidency by FDR (who never wanted him as a running mate in 1944).

Japan was trying to surrender as long as they could keep their emperor, a figure of not only national pride but of religious reverence. Most people who knew anything about Japan knew they'd have a hard time maintaining control of the country without the Emperor.

The only real problem. Old Hirohito was as guilty as a cat in a canary cage as far as war crimes went.

So we kept on that sticking point, dropped horrific weapons on Japan (and a lot of less horrific ones) until the USSR got involved, and we realized peace would be a lot more complicated with "North Japan" and "South Japan"

 

[JoeB131]

Elektra, I'm moved on to openly mocking you at this point.

That's because you're a proud idiot, JoeB, who relies on blogger silliness to support his bogus claims, and I mean that with all do respect.

Okay. Because you've got books. I get that.

 

[elektra]

We could not of had peace in 1944.

The Emperor never sought peace.

The Military never sought peace.

If you honestly believe that we had a chance in 1944, show us how. Who, when, and where?

Best place to actually base this on history is to search Dulles, Sweden, Japanese Surrender.

Do you actually know the story of the Japanese surrender after Nagasaki? It is a great story, you can actually read that story without upsetting your other "ideas" of what happened in WW II.

A chance for peace in 1944?

Here you go... but don't tell Elektra...It's from the internet and she has "books">

Guide to Decision Part I

• Intercepted cables on July 12-13 showed Japan's Emperor had intervened to attempt to end the war. (See pp. 232-233, Chapter 18) Many other "peace feelers" had preceded this move. (See Chapter 2)
  
• Intercepted cables showed Japan responding positively to a U.S. offer of a surrender based on the "Atlantic Charter" as put forward in an official July 21, 1945 American radio broadcast. The key clause of the Charter promised that every nation could choose its own form of government (which would have allowed Japan to keep its Emperor).
  The broadcast was allowed to stand with Presidential sanction, but U.S. officials chose thereafter to ignore this indication of Japan's willingness to surrender.

Yeah, when Tojo was replaced as Prime Minister.

I mean, I'm really not talking to you anymore, because you're like a fucking crazy person.

Tojo was replaced in 1944, not 45. It is obvious joeb131 does not know what joeb131 is talking about.
joeb131, maybe you should follow more than the first link you get when you do that "fast Google" search.

I guess if joeb131 Google's enough joeb131 will figure out what joeb131 is talking about.

Diary Japan s Tojo fought surrender till end - SFGate

Diary: Japan's Tojo fought surrender till end
Even after A-bomb, Japanese leader wanted to fight on
Mari Yamaguchi, Associated Press

Published 4:00 am, Wednesday, August 13, 2008

• 

• 

Photo: AP
IMAGE 1 OF 1
In this Oct. 17, 1941, photo, Japanese wartime leader Hideki Tojo is shown in Tokyo.
Image1of1
In this Oct. 17, 1941, photo, Japanese wartime leader Hideki Tojo is shown in Tokyo.


Japanese World War II leader Hideki Tojo wanted to keep fighting even after U.S. atomic bombs destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, accusing surrender proponents of being frightened, a newly released diary reveals.

Excerpts from the approximately 20 pages written by Tojo in the final days of the war and held by the National Archives of Japan were published for the first time in several newspapers Tuesday.

"The notes show Tojo kept his dyed-in-the-wool militarist mentality until the very end," said Kazufumi Takayama, the archives curator, who confirmed the accuracy of the published excerpts. "They are extremely valuable."

 

[JoeB131]

Tojo was replaced in 1944, not 45. It is obvious joeb131 does not know what joeb131 is talking about.
joeb131, maybe you should follow more than the first link you get when you do that "fast Google" search.

Or you just lacked the reading comprehension skills to get what I was saying. But that's okay.

 

[HenryBHough]

Whaddya bet the free world will have to smack down Germany again before it has to whack Japan?

 

[JoeB131]

Whaddya bet the free world will have to smack down Germany again before it has to whack Japan?

Actually, the free world has a bigger problem with the third world.

 

[Unkotare]

Don't be stupid.

Yes, to the last child, ]

I thought I told you not to be stupid. Now, try actually thinking about it for a second.

You thought? Stretching the truth again, are you!

There you go again being stupid.

Cause all you know is stupid?

Seems to be all you have to offer. Still afraid to even try to think?

 

[elektra]

Yes, to the last child, ]

I thought I told you not to be stupid. Now, try actually thinking about it for a second.

You thought? Stretching the truth again, are you!

There you go again being stupid.

Cause all you know is stupid?

Seems to be all you have to offer. Still afraid to even try to think?

Unkotare, you even have to cherry pick my rebuttal/flame/insult, my god you are weak and pathetic.

Seriously, you could not quote the entire insult?

Was the atomic bombing of Japan justifiable

The Japanese government plans a fanatical defence of Japan's home islands to the last man, woman and child

In April 1945, the Japanese Suzuki government had prepared a war policy called Ketsugo which was a refinement of the Shosango victory plan for the defence of the home islands to the last man. These plans would prepare the Japanese people psychologically to die as a nation in defence of their homeland. Even children, including girls, would be trained to use makeshift lethal weapons, and exhorted to sacrifice themselves by killing an American invader. To implement this policy of training children to kill, soldiers attended Japanese schools and trained even small children in the use of weapons such as bamboo spears.

 

[elektra]

Horse crap. There is nothing moral or honest about twisting the truth to satisfy your hate for Truman or America.

I agree.

And frankly, I would generally rate Harry Truman as a pretty good president, who made a lot of pretty good calls. The Berlin Airlift, coming to the Aid of Korea, NATO, not bailing the French out in Vietnam, not getting us into the middle of China's civil war.

This wasn't one of them. And you can almost feel bad that he wasn't prepared for the Presidency by FDR (who never wanted him as a running mate in 1944).

Japan was trying to surrender as long as they could keep their emperor, a figure of not only national pride but of religious reverence. Most people who knew anything about Japan knew they'd have a hard time maintaining control of the country without the Emperor.

The only real problem. Old Hirohito was as guilty as a cat in a canary cage as far as war crimes went.

So we kept on that sticking point, dropped horrific weapons on Japan (and a lot of less horrific ones) until the USSR got involved, and we realized peace would be a lot more complicated with "North Japan" and "South Japan"

Our declaration demanding Unconditional Surrender never stated the Emperor must go?

This is a thread about the Nukes, Bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima, prior to the bombs being dropped we sent them our demand purposely leaving out the Emperor. You ought to like wikepedia, comes up often in joeb131's "fast Google" searches.

Potsdam Declaration - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction.

No, we did not stay on that "sticking point", as you state.

Is it your comprehension, or your Google skills, or do you simply lie? The Japanese armed forces is very specific, not easily confused with the Royal Family. How does joeb131 confuse the two so easily? You should "fast Google" that.

"fast Google", I just realized that joeb131 figures quoting joeb131 is me openly mocking joeb131, hence the threat to openly mock me?

Can I say I am sorry for openly mocking you, joeb131?

 

[Unkotare]

[ you even have to cherry pick]

No, I choose which bit of your stupidity to which to respond.


Old women and children would not have fought to the death, you ridiculous buffoon.

 

[elektra]

[ you even have to cherry pick]

No, I choose which bit of your stupidity to which to respond.


Old women and children would not have fought to the death, you ridiculous buffoon.

Which bit to which?

Too bad History does not agree with your opinion. Just because you would never fight for your country does not mean the Japanese people of WWII are as unpatriotic and cowardly.

On the contrary, sadly, history disagreed with you.

 

[Unkotare]

[ you even have to cherry pick]

No, I choose which bit of your stupidity to which to respond.


Old women and children would not have fought to the death, you ridiculous buffoon.

Which bit to which?

Too bad History does not agree with your opinion. Just because you would never fight for your country does not mean the Japanese people of WWII are as unpatriotic and cowardly.

On the contrary, sadly, history disagreed with you.

Real history agrees with me.

 

[JoeB131]

Our declaration demanding Unconditional Surrender never stated the Emperor must go?

This is a thread about the Nukes, Bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima, prior to the bombs being dropped we sent them our demand purposely leaving out the Emperor. You ought to like wikepedia, comes up often in joeb131's "fast Google" searches.

Again, not talking to you because you are a crazy person.

Seriously, have you looked at WWII Propaganda? We considered Hirohito as bad a monster as Hitler.

 

[gipper]

Disagreeing with Truman's dropping of the A bombs has nothing to do with one's political persuasion or love of country. It has to do with morality and the truth.

What is strange is how many on the right defend Truman, yet he was a big gov progressive statist.

Horse crap. There is nothing moral or honest about twisting the truth to satisfy your hate for Truman or America.

Like so many myths in American history, the truth about the A bombs is difficult to accept and the truth sayers must be denigrated to protect the state.

 

[elektra]

[ you even have to cherry pick]

No, I choose which bit of your stupidity to which to respond.


Old women and children would not have fought to the death, you ridiculous buffoon.

Which bit to which?

Too bad History does not agree with your opinion. Just because you would never fight for your country does not mean the Japanese people of WWII are as unpatriotic and cowardly.

On the contrary, sadly, history disagreed with you.

Real history agrees with me.

Yet you resort to name calling and flames?

 

[elektra]

Our declaration demanding Unconditional Surrender never stated the Emperor must go?

This is a thread about the Nukes, Bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima, prior to the bombs being dropped we sent them our demand purposely leaving out the Emperor. You ought to like wikepedia, comes up often in joeb131's "fast Google" searches.

Again, not talking to you because you are a crazy person.

Seriously, have you looked at WWII Propaganda? We considered Hirohito as bad a monster as Hitler.

Seriously, you stated we consistently demanded that the Emperor be removed, and that is a flat out lie.

I posted the Surrender demand that you just failed to include in your quote, failed as in purposely deleted.

joeb131, you make claims you can not support. I bet thus far, you have ran from at least 12 of your posts, unable to offer any sort of defense of statements, not of your own, but stuff that you find on your "fast Google".

So maybe, you can explain how you come up with this bull crap we demanded the end of the Emperor?

Now you want to compare Germany and Japan, maybe joeb131 just can not focus, here is the declaration we made in regard to the Emperor, the Emperor was not included. It states the Armed Services, not the Royal Family, specifically.

Potsdam Declaration - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction.

 

[Syriusly]

Okay, for rational people now.

Was the Bombing of Hiroshima Necessary Three Myths Debunked TakePart

Much has been made of the Japanese kamikaze spirit, but by early summer, Emperor Hirohito was already making overtures to surrender -- weeks before the bombing of Hiroshima.

In a cable intercepted on July 12, 1945, Hirohito revealed that he was ready to end the war on the condition that the monarchy be granted immunity from war crimes -- conditions which the U.S. only accepted after dropping two atomic bombs on the country.

In Truman’s own journal he called the message a “telegram from Jap Emperor asking for peace.” And years later, in his book Secret Surrender, Secretary of State John Foster Dulles said he had relayed a similar message.

"On July 20, 1945, under instructions from Washington, I went to the Potsdam Conference and reported there to Secretary [of War] Stimson on what I had learned from Tokyo – they desired to surrender if they could retain the Emperor and their constitution as a basis for maintaining discipline and order in Japan after the devastating news of surrender became known to the Japanese people.’"

Your citation from the Socialist Workers paper doesn't support the claim you have made- doesn't mention that cable at all, and nothing but a vague reference to a cable from the emperor.

Your other citation is to some blog?

Let me be more clear- any citations of these actual cables or actual offers to surrender?

 

[regent]

Disagreeing with Truman's dropping of the A bombs has nothing to do with one's political persuasion or love of country. It has to do with morality and the truth.

What is strange is how many on the right defend Truman, yet he was a big gov progressive statist.

Horse crap. There is nothing moral or honest about twisting the truth to satisfy your hate for Truman or America.

Like so many myths in American history, the truth about the A bombs is difficult to accept and the truth sayers must be denigrated to protect the state.

Seems the truth is that we fought Japan for three and a half years and then we dropped two bombs and in a few days the war was over. Truth or myth, a lot of Americans and Japanese were able to live their full lives out because of the truth or myth.

 

[SAYIT]

Disagreeing with Truman's dropping of the A bombs has nothing to do with one's political persuasion or love of country. It has to do with morality and the truth.

What is strange is how many on the right defend Truman, yet he was a big gov progressive statist.

Horse crap. There is nothing moral or honest about twisting the truth to satisfy your hate for Truman or America.

Like so many myths in American history, the truth about the A bombs is difficult to accept and the truth sayers must be denigrated to protect the state.

Seems the truth is that we fought Japan for three and a half years and then we dropped two bombs and in a few days the war was over. Truth or myth, a lot of Americans and Japanese were able to live their full lives out because of the truth or myth.

No doubt dropping the bombs saved American lives and treasure and may well have saved Japanese lives. How many Japanese would have died had the war continued conventionally?