Did Obama lie about health care for illegals?

[drsmith1072]

Out of the 12 MILLION illegals that are in this country--OBAMA wants to give them a path-way to citizenship--therefore--they would be covered under any public option plan.

READ IT & PLAY THE VIDEO.

LEAVING NORMAL: Obama Won’t Give Federal Insurance Benefits to Illegal Aliens, He’ll Make Them Legal First

WOW you rightwingers really are retarded. If they are legal when they get the benefits then they are no longer illegal and therefore illegal immigrants did not get the benefits.

It's called a time line and no matter what you saw in the time travelers wife they are set and events have to happen in the order of occurrence.

You can't digest a sandwich before you eat it so why do you believe that a currently legal immigrant is an illegal immigrant NOW because he was one once?
LOL

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Are you saying that you're upset because Illegal Immigrants will not be barred from PURCHASING health insurance?

Is that what this is about?

Because they are quite definitely barred from benefitting from any taxpayer funding in regards to health insurance benefits or credits.

Of course they aren't barred from PURCHASING health insurance... That would just be counterproductive.

No not at all. I was just presenting the facts of the matter.....like i said feel free to read into it what you want.

I want all people in the world to be able to have the same coverage and health care I do....however if your not an american citizen I dont want to pay for said coverage and care, that is your home country's responsibility.

Well yeah, and we all agree here. I don't want to pay for health insurance for illegals either.

But if the bill says that they cannot receive taxpayer benefits, which it does, then that's covered.

If we were to deny them the ability to PURCHASE health insurance, then they would be MORE of a drain on the taxpayers, not LESS.

I've read through the bill and I didn't see that in there anywhere.

As far as I have read the bill doesn't say anything about non-citizens/illegal immigrants in regards to coverage.

I'm not trying to doucebag you but what section of the bill was that in? I got the PDF saved at home and I'll go read up. If it says that then i'll STFU about this .

 

[Vast LWC]

too bad non of the bills proposed require applicants to prove citizenship

they are going to cover illegal aliens

it is also unconstitutional for the US government to discriminate on the basis of national origin so if citizens are covered then they must cover illegal aliens

No see, I think I've figured this out. This is all a misunderstanding based on semantics.

The bill forbids any illegal aliens from receiving taxpayer funded benefits. Meaning that they cannot receive any rebates or credits from the Bill.

But you folks are saying that you don't want illegal aliens to be able to purchase health insurance at the regular rate at all.

And I'm really not seeing why you would feel this way.

If illegals can't buy health insurance, then they are a LARGER burden on the taxpayer.

If they can buy health insurance, then they're covered, and since they're younger, in general, than Americans, they're going to be an asset to the system, not a detraction.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Thats an interesting way to think about Vast...dont you dare make me change my mind now

 

[drsmith1072]

Agreed - conservatives have ALWAYS had a higher degree of humor. Poor Dems are too insecure and thin-skinned. This forum gives us daily examples of that simple fact...

Many anti-Obama bumper stickers and avatars I've seen are copycats of the anti-Bush statements, like the "Stuck on Stupid" one someone uses as an avatar here. Or even the "Kool-Aid" references were used against Bush. But stealing is what Republicans do best, so....

Yeah, we learned president bashing from the Dems. The only trait we didn't pick up was that incessant whining... because y'all still own that one and NOBODY can whine better than Democrat -- even though you've finally gotten what you've always wanted! Better toughen up that skin... it's gonna be a l-o-n-g four years.

LOL Wow you guys are hilarious. I seem to remember a lot of righties bashing clinton and all you righties ever seem to especially since the country voted you into the minority is whine incessently. LOL

This whole thread is chock full of incessently whining righties who are whining that an illigial MIGHT break the law and get benefits despite the FACT that the bill clearly say that they won't.

Thanks for the laughs.

 

[Vast LWC]

No not at all. I was just presenting the facts of the matter.....like i said feel free to read into it what you want.

I want all people in the world to be able to have the same coverage and health care I do....however if your not an american citizen I dont want to pay for said coverage and care, that is your home country's responsibility.

Well yeah, and we all agree here. I don't want to pay for health insurance for illegals either.

But if the bill says that they cannot receive taxpayer benefits, which it does, then that's covered.

If we were to deny them the ability to PURCHASE health insurance, then they would be MORE of a drain on the taxpayers, not LESS.

I've read through the bill and I didn't see that in there anywhere.

As far as I have read the bill doesn't say anything about non-citizens/illegal immigrants in regards to coverage.

I'm not trying to doucebag you but what section of the bill was that in? I got the PDF saved at home and I'll go read up. If it says that then i'll STFU about this .

Sure Pilgrim, no Prob:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Under which it details all the requirements for being eligible for federal funding.

I honestly think this is all a misunderstanding, and can be worked out.

 

[drsmith1072]

Obama didn't create illegals. The Republicans have long been in the business of encouraging more illegals to come here to support big business. But doctors don't generally discriminate, and should not and do not have police power, so handling the illegal problem by asking doctors to do it is not a genuine request. The Republicans can scream all they want but the illegal problem is a separate one to be addressed in different legislation. Why don't you get busy on that?

Regardless of history, Obama's now in charge. If he wanted to crack down on illegals, he doesn't need a new bill passed... there are already bills on the books that've never been enforced.

What's keeping him from addressing the problem?

Or maybe he'd just rather assign that responsibility to a nurse's aide so he won't get his hands dirty?

LOL and why did republcians pass the buck? LOL It's so funny how the right wishes to hold obama and the left accountalbe for everything when they refuse to hold their own accountable for anything.
Republicans had the majority ahnd COULD have done damn near anything that they wanted to and didn't. Now they sit there and whine "why aren't the democrats fixing _____?" when the republicans CHOSE not to do anything about it when they had the chance.

 

[MaggieMae]

That would be YOU are fine; YOU help each other (in your clan). YOU got yours, so fuck everybody else. It's the subtle mantra of the new generation of greedy Americans. Jefferson and Madison do regular turns in their graves.

I can't believe anyone has the gall to call the most generous citizens on the planet greedy, and make excuses for a corrupt government. This is why the Syracuse study clearly reflected that conservatives are much more generous than liberals. Liberals don't grasp charity or helping others, they need a corrupt government to help them feel somewhat "human".

Nice spin. Who's talking about charities? I'm talking about the obvious push for more corporate wealth, more corporate power, to the detriment of the working middle-class over the last decade. There was a time when Republicans (the true GOP) didn't come across as a bunch heartless Simon Legrees, when all Americans felt a deep moral commitment to the less advantaged. Now all we hear from the peanut gallery on the right is stuff like "Why should my taxes go to help pay for your health care?" Well news flash: There have been times when my taxes went to help pay for something you might have supported but I didn't. IT'S WHAT TAXES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. But it's the greedy attitude that sucks, which was my point. I'm sure you give to your church regularly and then feel all self-righteous the rest of the week. I wasn't talking about that kind of charity.

 

[MaggieMae]

If I wasn't mistaken, it looks like Maggie is crying. There's no crying on message boards.

Takes a helluva lot more than a bunch of cons yammering away to make me cry, buddy.

 

[MaggieMae]

Anyone who believes the govt will suddenly start asking for proof of citizenship should be reminded that currently, illegals can (and do):

Get a drivers license.
Buy insurance.
Open a bank account.
Enroll their kids in school.
Buy a house.
Buy a car.
Get a loan.
Open a business.
VOTE.

All of these 'privileges' are available, even though laws are on the books to prevent it. It's as simple as having a child born in the USA who is eligible to be issued a SS#, then the parents using that number to obtain anything their little hearts desire. Unless Obama stipulates that all SS#s must be verified, nothing will change... illegals will be entitled to the same healthcare options as legal citizens. Only the extremely naive believe that we'll see piles of dead Mexicans in the streets because Obama said illegals won't be covered.

Not saying much for the PRIVATE BUSINESSES that allow it, eh? Allowing illegals to get drivers licenses is a state decision. And last time I looked, they were NOT allowed to vote. Why would they even want to risk that kind of exposure?

Private businesses? Like the DMV? Federally regulated banks? FHA loans on houses? Loans from the SBA? And what keeps them from being able to vote? The honor system?

Point is... unless Obama decides to bite the bullet and send all 'illegal immigrants' back to where they came from, he's lying by saying we won't give them healthcare. Do you think he'll opt for being the president who goes down in history for deporting millions of illegals? Fat chance that's gonna happen. If they're allowed to stay here, they'll be given healthcare, no matter what O says. Or like I said before, they'll be dying in the streets.

Just to set the record straight, I'm for amnesty. I don't believe there is such a thing as an 'illegal' human being. Obama can't have it both ways... he's either got to send 'em back... or allow them to be covered by HC. Since he said they WON'T be covered, he needs to get those buses filled up and headed south. Or appint another Czar to go around the country and pick up brown carcasses.

You make zero sense. Whether or not there is a health care bill, the illigal immigrant problem will remain the same, as long as the hospital continue to take them in. That's why illegal immigration and how to handle that entirely different problem has no place in the healh care bill except to say that they will NOT be covered.

 

[MaggieMae]

The bill clearly states that illegals are barred. Simple enough.

Law enforcemnet all around the country has no clue about how to deal with illegals or even be sure who is who but somehow we should expect health care workers to tackle this task that NO ONE has demonstrated the capacity to do.

And of course, arguing that dishonest people will take advantage of something is always a valid argument for no one to have anything. ......what a bunch of nut jobs.

Exactly. Thank you. I was about to post that immigration reform is something separate which also must be dealt with, but you saved me the time. Also, the SSA needs to have more oversight over tracking fake numbers. The problem with the SSA has consistently been lack of manpower. That agency has always been understaffed (like some of the others where cutting corners means cutting the very people who could save money, and lives, in the long run--like the food inspection agency within the FDA). There is so much overlapping and so much waste and fraud throughout government, it's high time they start addressing the deficit problem from the bottom up.

The thing no politician wants to talk about and none of these butt heads all up in arms about illegals even has the brain power to consider is that no matter if it is a fake SS number or dead man's SS number, the illegals ARE PAYING SS. Illegals pay in to SS to the tune of 10 billion a year. Most of them can NEVER claim a dime of that money paid in under false numbers. The truth of the matter is that illegals are a wind fall of cash for SS BECUASE they pay in on false numbers that they can never collect on. They are a HUGE part of the reason why SS has not collapsed despite 25 years of dire predictions that it would. No one saw this huge windfall of cash for which they have NO OBLIGATION to ever pay out to the people who paid it in. If any of these nut jobs had paid as much attention to the actual Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act as they did to the meaningless and futile Blair Holt gun bill, they'd know that illegals pay a HUGE sum of money into the SS sysytem and they never get it back.

SS makes a NET GAIN on illegals. That's why you won't see us sending anyone home, anytime soon.

Well, although that's a revenue problem for the SS, on the other hand it's well known that many illegals send their paychecks back to Mexico instead of spending it here. Also, if more illegals can reach citizenship status faster, they would not just be putting their fair share into FICA but help keep our economy healthier, rather than Mexico's.

 

[MaggieMae]

Agreed - conservatives have ALWAYS had a higher degree of humor. Poor Dems are too insecure and thin-skinned. This forum gives us daily examples of that simple fact...

Many anti-Obama bumper stickers and avatars I've seen are copycats of the anti-Bush statements, like the "Stuck on Stupid" one someone uses as an avatar here. Or even the "Kool-Aid" references were used against Bush. But stealing is what Republicans do best, so....

Yeah, we learned president bashing from the Dems. The only trait we didn't pick up was that incessant whining... because y'all still own that one and NOBODY can whine better than Democrat -- even though you've finally gotten what you've always wanted! Better toughen up that skin... it's gonna be a l-o-n-g four years.

Whaaaat???? I challenge you to find a single thread on this entire message board that opens with someone in support of something the Republicans are proposing, or something they have even contributed to the government process in the last several years. They are ALL complaints, allegations, gotcha articles/announcements/blogs/YouTube vids, etc., which--drum roll--amounts to one great big giant WHINE.

In fact, read what YOU wrote. Yep. Looks pretty whiney to me.

 

[MaggieMae]

You wanted links? Here you go:

Coalition to Preserve Retirement Security
PERSI**:. Public Employee Retirement System of Idaho
GAO-05-786T, Social Security: Coverage of Public Employees and Implications for Reform


I await your apology Maggie.

I was particularly interested in your opening salvos: "Social Security is a government boondoggle with exorbitant salaries and benefits. They are MASSIVELY overstaffed." which those links don't address.

I'll look at those links more carefully, but in the meantime, I'm wondering how all of this fits into it. Do those people who don't pay into Social Security waive any benefits too? It looks like it.

Social Security Online -- Information for Government Employees

 

[MaggieMae]

I can't believe anyone has the gall to call the most generous citizens on the planet greedy, and make excuses for a corrupt government. This is why the Syracuse study clearly reflected that conservatives are much more generous than liberals. Liberals don't grasp charity or helping others, they need a corrupt government to help them feel somewhat "human".

I've seen a whole lot of talk about that "study", I'd like to see the methodolgy behind it.

Does it include very rich folks using so-called "Charities" for tax shelters, as they inevitably do?

Does it subtract the amount each of these so-called philanthropists gets back in their tax returns after donating their old clothes and things and then claiming the full value as a "donation"?

You do have to wonder why there is such vehement objection to Obama's proposed reduction in charitable contributions limitations for income tax purposes. I mean surely those folks would continue to donate anyway, right?

 

[Vast LWC]

OK, I think I see the issue.

Here is what Obama said:

"There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false – the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. "

You see, here is the semantic problem.

The bill will not "insure immigrants". Mr Obama is correct there. To "insure them" would mean to provide coverage for them free of charge.

However, the bill would not specifically forbid illegals from buying policies at normal prices.

That would be a really stupid thing to do, as illegals would then simply continue getting free emergency coverage and living off the welfare of the taxpayer in this regard.

I ask again, why would we possibly want to DENY the ability to purchase health insurance at normal prices to illegal immigrants????

 

[Vast LWC]

Now mind you, I'm giving the right the benefit of the doubt here, and assuming that they have the best of intentions, which is a stretch for me... lol.

 

[MaggieMae]

In summary, Social Security does not cover about one-fourth of public
employees, for various historical reasons. As a result, these employees
do not pay Social Security taxes on earnings from their noncovered
jobs. Nevertheless, they can still be eligible for Social Security
benefits based on their spouses' or their own earnings in covered
employment. Currently, Social Security has two provisions to address
the resulting fairness issues. The Government Pension Offset (GPO)
affects spouse and survivor benefits, and the Windfall Elimination
Provision (WEP) affects retired worker benefits. Both provisions reduce
Social Security benefits for those who receive noncovered pension
benefits. However, the Social Security Administration (SSA) cannot
effectively and fairly apply these provisions because it does not have
access to complete and accurate information on receipt of such
noncovered pension benefits. Implementation of some of our
recommendations has improved the availability and tracking of key
information for federal retirees, which we estimate will save hundreds
of millions of dollars. However, Congressional action is still needed
to improve access to information on state and local government
pensions.

In recent years, various Social Security reform proposals that would
affect public employees have been offered. Some proposals specifically
address the GPO and the WEP and would either revise or eliminate them.
While we have not analyzed these proposals, we believe it is important
to consider both the costs and the fairness issues they raise. Still
other proposals would make coverage mandatory for all state and local
government employees. According to Social Security actuaries, doing so
for all newly hired state and local government employees would reduce
the 75-year actuarial deficit by about 11 percent. It could also
enhance inflation protection, pension portability, and dependent
benefits for the affected beneficiaries, in many cases. However, to
provide for the same level of retirement income, it could increase
costs for the state and local governments that would sponsor the plans.
Moreover, the GPO and the WEP would continue to apply for many years to
come, even though they would become obsolete in the long run.

Good information there. Some things to be discussed when Social Security reform is once again on the table.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

He lied right to your faces. The democwats purposefully voted down the Heller amendment. They know damn well they are going to give illegals health care.

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

You are being misinformed. There is no amendment needed.

The caveat is that states can give more than the Fed gov, rights, etc., but then they would have to foot the bill...


Now, because there ARE children of these illegals here, who are born HERE who are CITIZENS, THOSE CITIZENS will naturally qualify, and if those who don't like that want to do something they can start the process to amend the Constitution on that specific issue!

However, one must be very clear that these children are citizens if born here, as the law is now interpreted, and so those chilfren are not ILLEGALS.

 

[MaggieMae]

Isn't that how the Kennedy's made their money, by moving the family bootlegging fortune offshore to escape taxation????????????????

How is something illegal taxable? (My grandfather was a bootlegger. Made millions, and lost millions at the end of prohibition, but he had put enough into a lumber business that ultimately was more lucrative than bootlegging, but not as much fun!)

 

[chanel]

Why would you assume that, without that specific guidance, illegal immigrants would qualify for healthcare? Do illegals qualify for any other government program?

It is common knowledge that Obama is pro-illegals. It was intentional to leave loop-holes in the bill just so it looks good on the outside, but they can still manipulate it their way.

Common practice, and if they fail to put guaranteed restrictions on the books it is because they know they may want to offer illegals services along the way.

This is the kind of deception Obama is using, and has been from the start. He is not an Americvan, and he has an agenda that is not proAmerican.

Why would he be PRO-illegals? "Common knowledge"?? Sure, among the loonies you hang with, I'm sure.

The "loonies" at the San Francisco Chronicle?

(01-28) 04:00 PDT Washington -- Sen. Barack Obama easily won the African American vote in South Carolina, but to woo California Latinos, where he is running 3-to-1 behind rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, he is taking a giant risk: spotlighting his support for the red-hot issue of granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

It's a huge issue for Latinos, who want them. It's also a huge issue for the general electorate, which most vehemently does not. Obama's stand could come back to haunt him not only in a general election, but with other voters in California, where driver's licenses for illegal immigrants helped undo former Gov. Gray Davis.

"Barack Obama has not backed down" on driver's licenses for undocumented people, said Federico Peña, a former Clinton administration Cabinet member and Denver mayor now supporting Obama. "I think when the Latino community hears Barack's position on such an important and controversial issue, they'll understand that his heart and his intellect is with Latino community."

Read more: Obama takes big risk on driver's license issue

Maybe he changed his mind????