Did I miss something?

[Richard-H]

With all the talk of reducing the federal budget, it seems to me that a really good way the the government could save a few billion $$ is by requiring that Medicare recipients pay a bulk discount price for pharmacueticals. The government could save a lot in medicare payments.

This issue seems to have fallen by the wayside. Last I heard Obama had made a deal with the devil and given in to the pharmacuetical companies in order to get their support for healthcare reform.

Maybe I missed something....

I seems to me that conservatives should whole heartedly agree that a basic principal of free market economics is that when you purchase something in bulk you should get it at a discounted rate.

Why hasn't this issue been resurrected in these budget talks?

Because it was a 'Liberal' cause?

 

[8537]

Because Bush was deep in the bed of pharma companies in 2003...

And Obama etal are deep in that bed in 2011. We can't let the market get in the way of a perfectly good pharma company bailout!

 

[uscitizen]

Bush put in the no bargaining on drug prices into medicare part D aka the pill bill.

 

[Steelplate]

Both of you are right. Pharma should not gouge American Citizens and let other nations get the same products for next to nothing.

This is what all those cries of "Socialized Medicine" wrought back in the Health Care reform debate. Obama and the Dems in Congress negotiated with themselves all the way to a shitty reform.

But the Conservatives helped make it happen... they scared enough Dems in the House(mostly Dems from Conservative Districts) into never having enough votes for a real bill.

Congratulations... You found one area where I despise my own party. They should have hardlined it with reconciliation from the very beginning with a solid Public Option and stopped the ass kissing of Pharma, Med/Tech and all the rest. They should have known that No Republican was going to vote for it anyway.

 

[Richard-H]

I really think that this is a issue where conservatives and liberals could unite. Conservatives to help get a balanced budget amd because bulk discounting is a fundamental of free market.

Liberals becuase they want to lower costs to seniors.

Both complain that government is controlled by big business.

If there was some way to resurrect this and to bring it to the forefront, the politicians could be shamed into changing it.

It would be a good political exercise for the whole country.

Liberals & conservatives united and politicians forced to listen to the people.

 

[Steelplate]

In this political environment? I don't see it happening.

I like your thoughts, but I don't see it.

 

[Susan45]

I really think that this is a issue where conservatives and liberals could unite. Conservatives to help get a balanced budget amd because bulk discounting is a fundamental of free market.

Liberals becuase they want to lower costs to seniors.

Both complain that government is controlled by big business.

If there was some way to resurrect this and to bring it to the forefront, the politicians could be shamed into changing it.

It would be a good political exercise for the whole country.

Liberals & conservatives united and politicians forced to listen to the people.

Dang Richard, you sure seem to be a nice guy. But you have the same disease with this issue that the president has. And that's believing that the GOP wants to do something about it. They would love to see it fail.

Haven't you realized that they don't want to get along with us?

 

[Susan45]

Both of you are right. Pharma should not gouge American Citizens and let other nations get the same products for next to nothing.

This is what all those cries of "Socialized Medicine" wrought back in the Health Care reform debate. Obama and the Dems in Congress negotiated with themselves all the way to a shitty reform.

But the Conservatives helped make it happen... they scared enough Dems in the House(mostly Dems from Conservative Districts) into never having enough votes for a real bill.

Congratulations... You found one area where I despise my own party. They should have hardlined it with reconciliation from the very beginning with a solid Public Option and stopped the ass kissing of Pharma, Med/Tech and all the rest. They should have known that No Republican was going to vote for it anyway.

My position exactly, it makes me tight jawed just to think about it.

 

[Wiseacre]

Yeah, you missed something, it's called the profit motive. If big pharma had a bulk discount price to M&M, their revenues would be significantly reduced. They have a 5 year period of patent rights before generic brands of the drug can be sold cheaper, they gotta make their money in those 1st 5 years to pay for the R&D of that drug plus the other 999 failures until they got it right.

You do realize what'll happen if you forced this bulk rate, right? Sayonara to high tech jobs, with an impact on the number and quality of new drugs hitting the market in the future.

 

[Steelplate]

Once again... why is only us that pays for those R&D costs? Make the rest of the world help too. But you like Corporate Socialism, don't you?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Once again... why is only us that pays for those R&D costs? Make the rest of the world help too. But you like Corporate Socialism, don't you?

yep.....we get fucked and they get the drugs nice and cheap.....

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

First you pass health reform, later you go after big pharma- they barely passed it anyway- see Nebraska payoff, etc....BUT THEY PASSED IT!! GD it....stupid country, GD elitist mega rich Pubs.

 

[Care4all]

Yeah, you missed something, it's called the profit motive. If big pharma had a bulk discount price to M&M, their revenues would be significantly reduced. They have a 5 year period of patent rights before generic brands of the drug can be sold cheaper, they gotta make their money in those 1st 5 years to pay for the R&D of that drug plus the other 999 failures until they got it right.

You do realize what'll happen if you forced this bulk rate, right? Sayonara to high tech jobs, with an impact on the number and quality of new drugs hitting the market in the future.

do you really think that PHARMA would just throw up their hands and walk away? just fold up the business, not do further research, because they had to negotiate bulk discounts with us, LIKE THEY DO for EVERY other Nation and country in the world?

-first, our tax dollars FUNDS a portion of their research and development expense

-second, ALL COUNTRIES pays MUCH LESS than we do, here in the USA, yet we fund the research....

ALL Pharma has to do, is raise the rates for ALL other nations SLIGHTLY, while lowering our rates to accommodate a bulk discount rate.

AND the true point, is that in a free market exchange, the gvt DOES NOT come in and give ''special protection'' to a private business by dictating who a private entity can negotiate with.....which is what the pill bill did.

ALSO, trust me....PHARMA is a multi billion dollar industry, they would NEVER, EVER just give up, or stop looking for the next new 'pill' that would make them money.

and, in key cases, PHARMA has EXTENDED their patents to last 10 years....

i know that's a mouth full to absorb.....but they are very key points, and i believe that our gvt should not stop any bulk rate negotiations as they have done, and such actions are fascist.

 

[Wiseacre]

Once again... why is only us that pays for those R&D costs? Make the rest of the world help too. But you like Corporate Socialism, don't you?

The rest of the world won't pay the higher prices. So, US pharma will take whatever extra revenue they can get at whatever price they can sell the drugs for.

Not sure what corporate socialism is, but I'm pretty sure I don't like it. Big pharmas are among the most profitable industries, but price controls and regulating profit is not a good road to travel.

 

[Care4all]

Once again... why is only us that pays for those R&D costs? Make the rest of the world help too. But you like Corporate Socialism, don't you?

The rest of the world won't pay the higher prices. So, US pharma will take whatever extra revenue they can get at whatever price they can sell the drugs for.

Not sure what corporate socialism is, but I'm pretty sure I don't like it. Big pharmas are among the most profitable industries, but price controls and regulating profit is not a good road to travel.

how do you know the rest of the world won't pay the prices? what do you think they will do, just walk away from their OWN health and not take a medicine prescribed Wise one? I KNOW that they would pay a higher price, JUST LIKE we pay that higher price....because we HAVE NO choice....not if we want to live, or be well again....logic says....they would pay a higher price, they will NOT walk away....imo

 

[Wiseacre]

Yeah, you missed something, it's called the profit motive. If big pharma had a bulk discount price to M&M, their revenues would be significantly reduced. They have a 5 year period of patent rights before generic brands of the drug can be sold cheaper, they gotta make their money in those 1st 5 years to pay for the R&D of that drug plus the other 999 failures until they got it right.

You do realize what'll happen if you forced this bulk rate, right? Sayonara to high tech jobs, with an impact on the number and quality of new drugs hitting the market in the future.

do you really think that PHARMA would just throw up their hands and walk away? just fold up the business, not do further research, because they had to negotiate bulk discounts with us, LIKE THEY DO for EVERY other Nation and country in the world?

-first, our tax dollars FUNDS a portion of their research and development expense

-second, ALL COUNTRIES pays MUCH LESS than we do, here in the USA, yet we fund the research....

ALL Pharma has to do, is raise the rates for ALL other nations SLIGHTLY, while lower our rates to accommodate a bulk discount rate.

AND the true point, is that in a free market exchange, the gvt DOES NOT come in and give ''special protection'' to a private business by dictating who a private entity can negotiate with.....which is what the pill bill did.

ALSO, trust me....PHARMA is a multi billion dollar industry, they would NEVER, EVER just give up, or stop looking for the next new 'pill' that would make them money.

and, in key cases, PHARMA has EXTENDED their patents to last 10 years....

i know that's a mouth full to absorb.....but they are very key points, and i believe that our gvt should not stop any bulk rate negotiations as they have done, and such actions are fascist.

I think big pharma would pull the plug a lot sooner on R&D for some drugs, especially if the prospects for profit and not so great. Maybe they wouldn't pull up stakes and go offshore, but maybe they'd scale back somewhat and outsource more. Don't know about the pill bill, but I wouldn't support special protection or preventing any negotiations.

 

[Steelplate]

Once again... why is only us that pays for those R&D costs? Make the rest of the world help too. But you like Corporate Socialism, don't you?

The rest of the world won't pay the higher prices. So, US pharma will take whatever extra revenue they can get at whatever price they can sell the drugs for.

Not sure what corporate socialism is, but I'm pretty sure I don't like it. Big pharmas are among the most profitable industries, but price controls and regulating profit is not a good road to travel.

Really? The rest of the world won't pay? Even though it may not be all that much higher because that cost would spread around?

Not sure what Corporate Socialism is? I explained it... it's making us... Pay extremely high prices to fund their research costs and then raking in the profits from us.. and allowing the rest of the world pay a pittance for the same product?

Why should we have to pay? Isn't that the Conservative line?

 

[uscitizen]

Yeah, you missed something, it's called the profit motive. If big pharma had a bulk discount price to M&M, their revenues would be significantly reduced. They have a 5 year period of patent rights before generic brands of the drug can be sold cheaper, they gotta make their money in those 1st 5 years to pay for the R&D of that drug plus the other 999 failures until they got it right.

You do realize what'll happen if you forced this bulk rate, right? Sayonara to high tech jobs, with an impact on the number and quality of new drugs hitting the market in the future.

but the same exact drug manufactured in the same factory sells in other countries for a fraction of what it sells for in the USA.

Pharma corporate welfare in the USA?

Our universities and NIH pay for much of the drug research that goes on in this country and they are funded with tax dollars.

Pharma pays more on advertising than on research.

 

[Wiseacre]

Once again... why is only us that pays for those R&D costs? Make the rest of the world help too. But you like Corporate Socialism, don't you?

The rest of the world won't pay the higher prices. So, US pharma will take whatever extra revenue they can get at whatever price they can sell the drugs for.

Not sure what corporate socialism is, but I'm pretty sure I don't like it. Big pharmas are among the most profitable industries, but price controls and regulating profit is not a good road to travel.

Really? The rest of the world won't pay? Even though it may not be all that much higher because that cost would spread around?

Not sure what Corporate Socialism is? I explained it... it's making us... Pay extremely high prices to fund their research costs and then raking in the profits from us.. and allowing the rest of the world pay a pittance for the same product?

Why should we have to pay? Isn't that the Conservative line?

I am fairly confident that the pharma companies will wring every last penny they can out of foreign sales.

Don't care about whatever the conservative line is. I would say we need to promote more competition in this area, perhaps smaller companies that focus on specific problems. I don't think we should allow mergers or acquisitions so a few big pharmas can't set prices that high.

 

[Care4all]

Yeah, you missed something, it's called the profit motive. If big pharma had a bulk discount price to M&M, their revenues would be significantly reduced. They have a 5 year period of patent rights before generic brands of the drug can be sold cheaper, they gotta make their money in those 1st 5 years to pay for the R&D of that drug plus the other 999 failures until they got it right.

You do realize what'll happen if you forced this bulk rate, right? Sayonara to high tech jobs, with an impact on the number and quality of new drugs hitting the market in the future.

do you really think that PHARMA would just throw up their hands and walk away? just fold up the business, not do further research, because they had to negotiate bulk discounts with us, LIKE THEY DO for EVERY other Nation and country in the world?

-first, our tax dollars FUNDS a portion of their research and development expense

-second, ALL COUNTRIES pays MUCH LESS than we do, here in the USA, yet we fund the research....

ALL Pharma has to do, is raise the rates for ALL other nations SLIGHTLY, while lower our rates to accommodate a bulk discount rate.

AND the true point, is that in a free market exchange, the gvt DOES NOT come in and give ''special protection'' to a private business by dictating who a private entity can negotiate with.....which is what the pill bill did.

ALSO, trust me....PHARMA is a multi billion dollar industry, they would NEVER, EVER just give up, or stop looking for the next new 'pill' that would make them money.

and, in key cases, PHARMA has EXTENDED their patents to last 10 years....

i know that's a mouth full to absorb.....but they are very key points, and i believe that our gvt should not stop any bulk rate negotiations as they have done, and such actions are fascist.

I think big pharma would pull the plug a lot sooner on R&D for some drugs, especially if the prospects for profit and not so great. Maybe they wouldn't pull up stakes and go offshore, but maybe they'd scale back somewhat and outsource more. Don't know about the pill bill, but I wouldn't support special protection or preventing any negotiations.

If memory serves, Big Pharma is very profitable, and imo they will not give away any business to their competitor....if the drug they are creating is worthy, they will continue to develop it, whether they bulk discount the bulk orders for Medicare purchases or not.

come onnnnnnn Wise one.....every single retailer out there GIVES BULK DISCOUNTS for BULK PURCHASES. For congress to write a law, preventing a retail operation from giving a bulk discount to those who make bulk purchases, IS FASCISM, and unconstitutional imo.

PHARMA BENEFITS greatly from OUR TAXES....they have a business that is near purely funded by our government through Medicare.

They have a guaranteed income flow through Medicare, our tax dollars....their RISKS are minimal compared to other businesses that do not have the government tit feeding them.