Detroit...

[JBeukema]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw"]YouTube - Detroit in RUINS! (Crowder goes Ghetto)[/ame]

 

[The Rabbi]

The former mayor is in jail on corruption charges. The school board president resigned over allegations that he masturbated in his office during a meeting with an official. In any case he cannot read or write. The police chief unexpectedly resigned.
Yes, this is what happens when you elect Democrats who promise to tax the rich.

 

[rightwinger]

Sad to see the decline of a once great city

Detroit, at one time symbolized American greatness. With the decline in dominance of the American auto industry and the dispersion of auto manufacturing to less expensive areas, I doubt if Detroit will ever return to its former greatness

They have to downsize the city. Demolish what once was and concentrate on a manageable city center and try to attract new industries.

They need a powerful city planner to rescope their future...I wish them luck

 

[rightwinger]

But if they need some Good News

GM received about $50 billion last year from the U.S. government to stay in business and make it through bankruptcy court. The company repaid $6.7 billion, and the balance was converted to a 61% government stake in the automaker.

The government hopes to get the rest of the money back when GM sells its shares.

Obama on Thursday said the government will recover all taxpayer money his administration used to bail out the auto industry.

The White House said the president referred only to the $60 billion his administration spent rescuing the auto industry, not the $25 billion spent under the Bush administration. The most recent government estimate found that taxpayers will lose $24.3 billion on the auto bailout.

The Obama and Bush administrations poured $85 billion into General Motors, Chrysler, auto lenders and suppliers to avoid an industrywide meltdown in 2008 and 2009.

 

[Jarhead]

Sad to see the decline of a once great city

Detroit, at one time symbolized American greatness. With the decline in dominance of the American auto industry and the dispersion of auto manufacturing to less expensive areas, I doubt if Detroit will ever return to its former greatness

They have to downsize the city. Demolish what once was and concentrate on a manageable city center and try to attract new industries.

They need a powerful city planner to rescope their future...I wish them luck

Detroit, as Pittsburgh, was the epitomy of America.
Now, sadly, it is the armpit of America.

 

[JBeukema]

Sad to see the decline of a once great city

Detroit, at one time symbolized American greatness. With the decline in dominance of the American auto industry and the dispersion of auto manufacturing to less expensive areas, I doubt if Detroit will ever return to its former greatness

They have to downsize the city. Demolish what once was and concentrate on a manageable city center and try to attract new industries.

They need a powerful city planner to rescope their future...I wish them luck

When the Planners bring about total failure, there comes a call for a single powerful Planner, a strong man to lead the People...

I swear I read something like that once... I think the author's name was Hayek or something...

 

[rightwinger]

Sad to see the decline of a once great city

Detroit, at one time symbolized American greatness. With the decline in dominance of the American auto industry and the dispersion of auto manufacturing to less expensive areas, I doubt if Detroit will ever return to its former greatness

They have to downsize the city. Demolish what once was and concentrate on a manageable city center and try to attract new industries.

They need a powerful city planner to rescope their future...I wish them luck

When the Planners bring about total failure, there comes a call for a single powerful Planner, a strong man to lead the People...

I swear I read something like that once... I think the author's name was Hayek or something...

Look at someone like Robert Moses did in New York

Cities like San Antonio, Atlanta, Nashville have redefined themselves. Whining about what once was will not do the job

 

[Jarhead]

But if they need some Good News

GM received about $50 billion last year from the U.S. government to stay in business and make it through bankruptcy court. The company repaid $6.7 billion, and the balance was converted to a 61% government stake in the automaker.

The government hopes to get the rest of the money back when GM sells its shares.

Obama on Thursday said the government will recover all taxpayer money his administration used to bail out the auto industry.

The White House said the president referred only to the $60 billion his administration spent rescuing the auto industry, not the $25 billion spent under the Bush administration. The most recent government estimate found that taxpayers will lose $24.3 billion on the auto bailout.

The Obama and Bush administrations poured $85 billion into General Motors, Chrysler, auto lenders and suppliers to avoid an industrywide meltdown in 2008 and 2009.

RW....

I believe there are times where you just need to let go. The auto industry helped define America, but over the years it proved to be a losing cause. America, with all of its regulations (for good or bad, that is not the debate), with all of its union requirements (again, for good or bad, that is not the debate), cannot sustain an industry like the auto industry....it can nopt compete.

America is usually the frontrunner of an industry, and when other countries catch on and the competition increases, we should be willing to move forward and be the frontunner of a new industry. As a country that is not just in it for the money and instead care about the eniovronment, the long term good of the earth in general and the health and well being of the people (workers), we can not and should not try to compete with those that will sacrifice safety and the environment in an effort to win over the consumer.

We should have used that 85 billion on new energy technology....and educating those that serviced the auto industry in transferring their skills to the energy industry.

My personal opinon, of course.

 

[rightwinger]

But if they need some Good News

GM received about $50 billion last year from the U.S. government to stay in business and make it through bankruptcy court. The company repaid $6.7 billion, and the balance was converted to a 61% government stake in the automaker.

The government hopes to get the rest of the money back when GM sells its shares.

Obama on Thursday said the government will recover all taxpayer money his administration used to bail out the auto industry.

The White House said the president referred only to the $60 billion his administration spent rescuing the auto industry, not the $25 billion spent under the Bush administration. The most recent government estimate found that taxpayers will lose $24.3 billion on the auto bailout.

The Obama and Bush administrations poured $85 billion into General Motors, Chrysler, auto lenders and suppliers to avoid an industrywide meltdown in 2008 and 2009.

RW....

I believe there are times where you just need to let go. The auto industry helped define America, but over the years it proved to be a losing cause. America, with all of its regulations (for good or bad, that is not the debate), with all of its union requirements (again, for good or bad, that is not the debate), cannot sustain an industry like the auto industry....it can nopt compete.

America is usually the frontrunner of an industry, and when other countries catch on and the competition increases, we should be willing to move forward and be the frontunner of a new industry. As a country that is not just in it for the money and instead care about the eniovronment, the long term good of the earth in general and the health and well being of the people (workers), we can not and should not try to compete with those that will sacrifice safety and the environment in an effort to win over the consumer.

We should have used that 85 billion on new energy technology....and educating those that serviced the auto industry in transferring their skills to the energy industry.

My personal opinon, of course.

Well the good news is the $85 billion will be repaid. The standard opposition at the time was if we gave GM the money they would be back in six months asking for more. As a condition of lending them money, Obama insisted that they become more lean and come back with a more efficient management strategy.

GM looks to have come back from the brink. They will not be the same company they were but they have stopped bleeding and stopped asking for more money

 

[Jarhead]

But if they need some Good News

GM received about $50 billion last year from the U.S. government to stay in business and make it through bankruptcy court. The company repaid $6.7 billion, and the balance was converted to a 61% government stake in the automaker.

The government hopes to get the rest of the money back when GM sells its shares.

Obama on Thursday said the government will recover all taxpayer money his administration used to bail out the auto industry.

The White House said the president referred only to the $60 billion his administration spent rescuing the auto industry, not the $25 billion spent under the Bush administration. The most recent government estimate found that taxpayers will lose $24.3 billion on the auto bailout.

The Obama and Bush administrations poured $85 billion into General Motors, Chrysler, auto lenders and suppliers to avoid an industrywide meltdown in 2008 and 2009.

RW....

I believe there are times where you just need to let go. The auto industry helped define America, but over the years it proved to be a losing cause. America, with all of its regulations (for good or bad, that is not the debate), with all of its union requirements (again, for good or bad, that is not the debate), cannot sustain an industry like the auto industry....it can nopt compete.

America is usually the frontrunner of an industry, and when other countries catch on and the competition increases, we should be willing to move forward and be the frontunner of a new industry. As a country that is not just in it for the money and instead care about the eniovronment, the long term good of the earth in general and the health and well being of the people (workers), we can not and should not try to compete with those that will sacrifice safety and the environment in an effort to win over the consumer.

We should have used that 85 billion on new energy technology....and educating those that serviced the auto industry in transferring their skills to the energy industry.

My personal opinon, of course.

Well the good news is the $85 billion will be repaid. The standard opposition at the time was if we gave GM the money they would be back in six months asking for more. As a condition of lending them money, Obama insisted that they become more lean and come back with a more efficient management strategy.

GM looks to have come back from the brink. They will not be the same company they were but they have stopped bleeding and stopped asking for more money

Well, we need to call a spade a spade.

In it was the CARS program. I would like to see how the returns are without the taxpayer having to absorb a lot of the money.

And to avoid an unecessary debate, everytime someone gets a tax credit, it is still a burden on the taxpayer...the deficit....and, if not, the debt.

No, I am not being a pessimist. I am a realist. I want to see how things go with GM in a normal enivronment with fair competition. It is the "economist" part of me.

 

[The Rabbi]

But if they need some Good News

GM received about $50 billion last year from the U.S. government to stay in business and make it through bankruptcy court. The company repaid $6.7 billion, and the balance was converted to a 61% government stake in the automaker.

The government hopes to get the rest of the money back when GM sells its shares.

Obama on Thursday said the government will recover all taxpayer money his administration used to bail out the auto industry.

The White House said the president referred only to the $60 billion his administration spent rescuing the auto industry, not the $25 billion spent under the Bush administration. The most recent government estimate found that taxpayers will lose $24.3 billion on the auto bailout.

The Obama and Bush administrations poured $85 billion into General Motors, Chrysler, auto lenders and suppliers to avoid an industrywide meltdown in 2008 and 2009.

RW....

I believe there are times where you just need to let go. The auto industry helped define America, but over the years it proved to be a losing cause. America, with all of its regulations (for good or bad, that is not the debate), with all of its union requirements (again, for good or bad, that is not the debate), cannot sustain an industry like the auto industry....it can nopt compete.

America is usually the frontrunner of an industry, and when other countries catch on and the competition increases, we should be willing to move forward and be the frontunner of a new industry. As a country that is not just in it for the money and instead care about the eniovronment, the long term good of the earth in general and the health and well being of the people (workers), we can not and should not try to compete with those that will sacrifice safety and the environment in an effort to win over the consumer.

We should have used that 85 billion on new energy technology....and educating those that serviced the auto industry in transferring their skills to the energy industry.

My personal opinon, of course.

Well the good news is the $85 billion will be repaid. The standard opposition at the time was if we gave GM the money they would be back in six months asking for more. As a condition of lending them money, Obama insisted that they become more lean and come back with a more efficient management strategy.

GM looks to have come back from the brink. They will not be the same company they were but they have stopped bleeding and stopped asking for more money

It is amazing how much better your cash flow looks after you've screwed your creditors and bankrupted on your debt.
The sham bankruptcy destroyed the rule of law, screwed rightful creditors, and rewarded Obama's cronies in the auto unions. It certainly did not fix GM's problems, which have been years i the making, in 15 months.
GM will be back to ask for more money. It is only a matter of time.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sad to see the decline of a once great city

Detroit, at one time symbolized American greatness. With the decline in dominance of the American auto industry and the dispersion of auto manufacturing to less expensive areas, I doubt if Detroit will ever return to its former greatness

They have to downsize the city. Demolish what once was and concentrate on a manageable city center and try to attract new industries.

They need a powerful city planner to rescope their future...I wish them luck

When the Planners bring about total failure, there comes a call for a single powerful Planner, a strong man to lead the People...

I swear I read something like that once... I think the author's name was Hayek or something...

Look at someone like Robert Moses did in New York

Cities like San Antonio, Atlanta, Nashville have redefined themselves. Whining about what once was will not do the job

Nashville did not have a strong central planner to change the city. It grew for a variety of reasons, geography being the main one. I have lived here for 30 years so know.

 

[Said1]

The city should have stuck with Motown,

 

[rightwinger]

RW....

I believe there are times where you just need to let go. The auto industry helped define America, but over the years it proved to be a losing cause. America, with all of its regulations (for good or bad, that is not the debate), with all of its union requirements (again, for good or bad, that is not the debate), cannot sustain an industry like the auto industry....it can nopt compete.

America is usually the frontrunner of an industry, and when other countries catch on and the competition increases, we should be willing to move forward and be the frontunner of a new industry. As a country that is not just in it for the money and instead care about the eniovronment, the long term good of the earth in general and the health and well being of the people (workers), we can not and should not try to compete with those that will sacrifice safety and the environment in an effort to win over the consumer.

We should have used that 85 billion on new energy technology....and educating those that serviced the auto industry in transferring their skills to the energy industry.

My personal opinon, of course.

Well the good news is the $85 billion will be repaid. The standard opposition at the time was if we gave GM the money they would be back in six months asking for more. As a condition of lending them money, Obama insisted that they become more lean and come back with a more efficient management strategy.

GM looks to have come back from the brink. They will not be the same company they were but they have stopped bleeding and stopped asking for more money

It is amazing how much better your cash flow looks after you've screwed your creditors and bankrupted on your debt.
The sham bankruptcy destroyed the rule of law, screwed rightful creditors, and rewarded Obama's cronies in the auto unions. It certainly did not fix GM's problems, which have been years i the making, in 15 months.
GM will be back to ask for more money. It is only a matter of time.

Now "its a matter of time"

Before it was they will be back asking for money in three months and we will never see a nickel back on our investment

Moving the Goal Posts again Rabbi?

 

[The Rabbi]

Well the good news is the $85 billion will be repaid. The standard opposition at the time was if we gave GM the money they would be back in six months asking for more. As a condition of lending them money, Obama insisted that they become more lean and come back with a more efficient management strategy.

GM looks to have come back from the brink. They will not be the same company they were but they have stopped bleeding and stopped asking for more money

It is amazing how much better your cash flow looks after you've screwed your creditors and bankrupted on your debt.
The sham bankruptcy destroyed the rule of law, screwed rightful creditors, and rewarded Obama's cronies in the auto unions. It certainly did not fix GM's problems, which have been years i the making, in 15 months.
GM will be back to ask for more money. It is only a matter of time.

Now "its a matter of time"

Before it was they will be back asking for money in three months and we will never see a nickle back on our investment

Moving the Goal Posts again Rabbi?

When did I post we would never see a nickle and htey'd be back in 3 months? Please post links.
Unless you're lying again. Which is what you've done.

 

[Old Rocks]

But if they need some Good News

GM received about $50 billion last year from the U.S. government to stay in business and make it through bankruptcy court. The company repaid $6.7 billion, and the balance was converted to a 61% government stake in the automaker.

The government hopes to get the rest of the money back when GM sells its shares.

Obama on Thursday said the government will recover all taxpayer money his administration used to bail out the auto industry.

The White House said the president referred only to the $60 billion his administration spent rescuing the auto industry, not the $25 billion spent under the Bush administration. The most recent government estimate found that taxpayers will lose $24.3 billion on the auto bailout.

The Obama and Bush administrations poured $85 billion into General Motors, Chrysler, auto lenders and suppliers to avoid an industrywide meltdown in 2008 and 2009.

RW....

I believe there are times where you just need to let go. The auto industry helped define America, but over the years it proved to be a losing cause. America, with all of its regulations (for good or bad, that is not the debate), with all of its union requirements (again, for good or bad, that is not the debate), cannot sustain an industry like the auto industry....it can nopt compete.

America is usually the frontrunner of an industry, and when other countries catch on and the competition increases, we should be willing to move forward and be the frontunner of a new industry. As a country that is not just in it for the money and instead care about the eniovronment, the long term good of the earth in general and the health and well being of the people (workers), we can not and should not try to compete with those that will sacrifice safety and the environment in an effort to win over the consumer.

We should have used that 85 billion on new energy technology....and educating those that serviced the auto industry in transferring their skills to the energy industry.

My personal opinon, of course.

When I was young, in the '50s, the American car was the premier vehicle, with only the very top end cars of other nations in competition. It could have remained that way. By the mid-60's, the American manufacturers were bragging about planned obselescence. In the 70's and 80's, we saw the influx of better built, longer lasting, and more economical cars from other nations. The old men at the head of the American car companies failed to respond to real competition, and their companies failed, justly and deservedly.

We can get back the dominance that we once had, but it will not be done by the present management of the American manufactureres. Still far too timid to do the R and D neccessary to create really efficeint EVs and Hybrids.

In Europe, you can get a VW Polo that gets 73 mpg on diesel. A diesel BMW, the 325, I think, puts out 435 ft. lbs of torque, and gets better than 30 mpg on the highway. And it is FAST! Where are our engineers in this industry?

 

[saveliberty]

Sad to see the decline of a once great city

Detroit, at one time symbolized American greatness. With the decline in dominance of the American auto industry and the dispersion of auto manufacturing to less expensive areas, I doubt if Detroit will ever return to its former greatness

They have to downsize the city. Demolish what once was and concentrate on a manageable city center and try to attract new industries.

They need a powerful city planner to rescope their future...I wish them luck

Detroit, as Pittsburgh, was the epitomy of America.
Now, sadly, it is the armpit of America.

Armpit of America? I thought Cleveland owned that. Detroit has reinvented itself many times. Motown, fur trade, shipping, lumber and cars. They are downsizing Detroit as Rightwinger suggested.

 

[Douger]

Murkastan !
What a beautiful town with an incredible history.
Where's the tourists ?

The real question is how long before L.A. , Shitcago, Cleveland and all the rest catch up to Dee_troyt ?
My guess is 5 to 10 years.

 

[Jarhead]

Sad to see the decline of a once great city

Detroit, at one time symbolized American greatness. With the decline in dominance of the American auto industry and the dispersion of auto manufacturing to less expensive areas, I doubt if Detroit will ever return to its former greatness

They have to downsize the city. Demolish what once was and concentrate on a manageable city center and try to attract new industries.

They need a powerful city planner to rescope their future...I wish them luck

Detroit, as Pittsburgh, was the epitomy of America.
Now, sadly, it is the armpit of America.

Armpit of America? I thought Cleveland owned that. Detroit has reinvented itself many times. Motown, fur trade, shipping, lumber and cars. They are downsizing Detroit as Rightwinger suggested.

You are correct.
I stand corrected.

 

[The Rabbi]

But if they need some Good News

GM received about $50 billion last year from the U.S. government to stay in business and make it through bankruptcy court. The company repaid $6.7 billion, and the balance was converted to a 61% government stake in the automaker.

The government hopes to get the rest of the money back when GM sells its shares.

Obama on Thursday said the government will recover all taxpayer money his administration used to bail out the auto industry.

The White House said the president referred only to the $60 billion his administration spent rescuing the auto industry, not the $25 billion spent under the Bush administration. The most recent government estimate found that taxpayers will lose $24.3 billion on the auto bailout.

The Obama and Bush administrations poured $85 billion into General Motors, Chrysler, auto lenders and suppliers to avoid an industrywide meltdown in 2008 and 2009.

RW....

I believe there are times where you just need to let go. The auto industry helped define America, but over the years it proved to be a losing cause. America, with all of its regulations (for good or bad, that is not the debate), with all of its union requirements (again, for good or bad, that is not the debate), cannot sustain an industry like the auto industry....it can nopt compete.

America is usually the frontrunner of an industry, and when other countries catch on and the competition increases, we should be willing to move forward and be the frontunner of a new industry. As a country that is not just in it for the money and instead care about the eniovronment, the long term good of the earth in general and the health and well being of the people (workers), we can not and should not try to compete with those that will sacrifice safety and the environment in an effort to win over the consumer.

We should have used that 85 billion on new energy technology....and educating those that serviced the auto industry in transferring their skills to the energy industry.

My personal opinon, of course.

When I was young, in the '50s, the American car was the premier vehicle, with only the very top end cars of other nations in competition. It could have remained that way. By the mid-60's, the American manufacturers were bragging about planned obselescence. In the 70's and 80's, we saw the influx of better built, longer lasting, and more economical cars from other nations. The old men at the head of the American car companies failed to respond to real competition, and their companies failed, justly and deservedly.

We can get back the dominance that we once had, but it will not be done by the present management of the American manufactureres. Still far too timid to do the R and D neccessary to create really efficeint EVs and Hybrids.

In Europe, you can get a VW Polo that gets 73 mpg on diesel. A diesel BMW, the 325, I think, puts out 435 ft. lbs of torque, and gets better than 30 mpg on the highway. And it is FAST! Where are our engineers in this industry?

Unions. Government regulation. Protectionism.

Those three things right there decimated the auto industry, along with executives only too happy to kick the problems down the road for someone else to deal with.