Democrats Solidify Electoral Base

[Lode]

explain where in the Constitution does the civil right to vote exist.....

Not being a slave is a civil right. It wasn't assigned in the constitution till 1865.

The constitution is a legal document. Not what endows people with civil rights.

Civil rights are "endowed by the creator."

 

[DiamondDave]

Not being a slave is a civil right. It wasn't assigned in the constitution till 1865.

The constitution is a legal document. Not what endows people with civil rights.

Civil rights are "endowed by the creator."

No

The inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness were

And those can be taken away when dealing with criminal activity, depending on the severity of the activity... maniacal killers can and should be executed... criminals can and should have their liberty and freedom taken away when incarceration is warranted... and criminals to be incarcerated are not and should not be free to do what makes them happy

 

[sealybobo]

Well.. certain TYPES of jobs they need to be restricted from... those involving security clearances, etc...

My main beef is anyone who is currently incarcerated or currently on parole (still legally within their sentencing,, and not 'free') having any ability to vote

Why shouldn't a person who committed a felony be allowed to vote after they paid their debt to society? White collar crimes, selling drugs, burglary, manslaughter, statutory rape, fraud, tax evasion, etc.

After probation is over. Why not?

 

[KGB]

Not being a slave is a civil right. It wasn't assigned in the constitution till 1865.

The constitution is a legal document. Not what endows people with civil rights.

Civil rights are "endowed by the creator."

you missed my point....you won't find a civil right in the Constitution because it doesn't exist in the first place....we are a representative republic which means the states themselves determine how our leaders are selected....it can be a vote by the people, but as you might remember back to 2000, the state legislatures are ultimately responsible for seating delegates to the electoral college....by tradition, this has been accomplished via the general election, but it doesn't need to be....ergo, there is no civil right to vote as you might think.....

here is an expansion on this....

The Right To Vote

The Constitution contains many phrases, clauses, and amendments detailing ways people cannot be denied the right to vote. You cannot deny the right to vote because of race or gender. Citizens of Washington DC can vote for President; 18-year-olds can vote; you can vote even if you fail to pay a poll tax. The Constitution also requires that anyone who can vote for the "most numerous branch" of their state legislature can vote for House members and Senate members.

Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example. It does require that Representatives be chosen and Senators be elected by "the People," and who comprises "the People" has been expanded by the aforementioned amendments several times. Aside from these requirements, though, the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld. For example, in Texas, persons declared mentally incompetent and felons currently in prison or on probation are denied the right to vote. It is interesting to note that though the 26th Amendment requires that 18-year-olds must be able to vote, states can allow persons younger than 18 to vote, if they chose to.

 

[DiamondDave]

Why shouldn't a person who committed a felony be allowed to vote after they paid their debt to society? White collar crimes, selling drugs, burglary, manslaughter, statutory rape, fraud, tax evasion, etc.

After probation is over. Why not?

Maybe you should actually read what I wrote

 

[Lode]

No

The inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness were

And those can be taken away when dealing with criminal activity, depending on the severity of the activity... maniacal killers can and should be executed... criminals can and should have their liberty and freedom taken away when incarceration is warranted... and criminals to be incarcerated are not and should not be free to do what makes them happy

Obviously we should 'lock up the baddies'. Nobodys arguing otherwise.

But we shouldn't deny them to vote forever. It just promotes recidivism and more 'baddies'. If you make someone an outcaste they'll be far more likely to return to crime.

I'm not talking about people on parole necessarily, who have had some of their rights returned anyway. I see no reason not to give them the right to vote too.

But many many states have statutes that will never let felons vote.

I'm saying once your sentence has been served you're no longer a criminal, and you shouldn't be unable to work or vote because of it. Just promotes more crime.

The purpose of law is to protect society. That serves the opposite purpose.

 

[Ravi]

If it isn't a civil right, why do they take it away?

 

[KGB]

If it isn't a civil right, why do they take it away?

that's just the thing, it never was a civil right in the first place.....

 

[Ravi]

that's just the thing, it never was a civil right in the first place.....

I disagree, but does that mean you think currently incarcerated felons should be able to vote?

 

[DiamondDave]

Obviously we should 'lock up the baddies'. Nobodys arguing otherwise.

But we shouldn't deny them to vote forever. It just promotes recidivism and more 'baddies'. If you make someone an outcaste they'll be far more likely to return to crime.

I'm not talking about people on parole necessarily, who have had some of their rights returned anyway. I see no reason not to give them the right to vote too.

But many many states have statutes that will never let felons vote.

I'm saying once your sentence has been served you're no longer a criminal, and you shouldn't be unable to work or vote because of it. Just promotes more crime.

The purpose of law is to protect society. That serves the opposite purpose.

The thing is, and why I would never vote against a bill that prevents felons from voting, that once you are a criminal you are a criminal.. the fact that you committed a crime against society that was serious enough to be punished severely by the criminal justice system... that will remain with you, always...

I am not saying that SOME people can truly have an epiphany and change... but that is not generally the case... and government is not going to sit there on a case by case basis to determine that you have changed...

So.. I am not against prior felons voting when they are free, as it is the law in my state that they can... but I would not be against them taking that right away either.. I can see and understand both sides of the argument... and truly this is a case of government (and society) being damned if you do and damed if you don't.... as stated, my main beef is if currently incarcerated prisoners are allowed to vote, and if people on parole are allowed to vote

 

[KGB]

I disagree, but does that mean you think currently incarcerated felons should be able to vote?

the question is moot.....the Constitution does not spell out a right to vote, henceforth, no right is being is being violated....the states have the authority to restrict voting....re-read the following:

"Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example. It does require that Representatives be chosen and Senators be elected by "the People," and who comprises "the People" has been expanded by the aforementioned amendments several times. Aside from these requirements, though, the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld."

However, to answer the question you asked me, no I do not support voting for felons currently being incarcerated....they have chosen by their actions to step outside of society, therefore they have no business in determing how society is governed.....

 

[Lode]

And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld. For example, in Texas, persons declared mentally incompetent and felons currently in prison or on probation are denied the right to vote. It is interesting to note that though the 26th Amendment requires that 18-year-olds must be able to vote, states can allow persons younger than 18 to vote, if they chose to.

My point is these protections should be constitutionally guaranteed to reformed convicts.

Not that denying reformed convicts of the right to vote is unconstitutional.

But that it's unAmerican.

 

[Lode]

However, to answer the question you asked me, no I do not support voting for felons currently being incarcerated....they have chosen by their actions to step outside of society, therefore they have no business in determing how society is governed.....

Hold on. This thread is about registering newly eligible felons, which several posters were against.

Not whether people currently incarcerated should vote.

 

[sealybobo]

the question is moot.....the Constitution does not spell out a right to vote, henceforth, no right is being is being violated....the states have the authority to restrict voting....re-read the following:

"Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example. It does require that Representatives be chosen and Senators be elected by "the People," and who comprises "the People" has been expanded by the aforementioned amendments several times. Aside from these requirements, though, the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld."

However, to answer the question you asked me, no I do not support voting for felons currently being incarcerated....they have chosen by their actions to step outside of society, therefore they have no business in determing how society is governed.....

The National Voting Rights Act of 1965 outlawed discriminatory voting practices that had been responsible for the widespread disenfranchisement of African-Americans in the United States. Echoing the language of the Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the Act prohibited states from imposing any "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure... to deny or abridge the right of any citizen of the United States to vote on account of race or color." Specifically, Congress intended the Act to outlaw the practice of requiring otherwise qualified voters to pass literacy tests in order to register to vote, a principal means by which southern states had prevented African-Americans from exercising the franchise.[3]

 

[DiamondDave]

Hold on. This thread is about registering newly eligible felons, which several posters were against.

Not whether people currently incarcerated should vote.

ummm... from the linked article

In California, a team will stand in front of jails on Aug. 16 to register people visiting prisoners and encourage them to take registration cards to their incarcerated friends or family members, some of whom can legally vote.

 

[DiamondDave]

The National Voting Rights Act of 1965 outlawed discriminatory voting practices that had been responsible for the widespread disenfranchisement of African-Americans in the United States. Echoing the language of the Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the Act prohibited states from imposing any "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure... to deny or abridge the right of any citizen of the United States to vote on account of race or color." Specifically, Congress intended the Act to outlaw the practice of requiring otherwise qualified voters to pass literacy tests in order to register to vote, a principal means by which southern states had prevented African-Americans from exercising the franchise.[3]

Funny... did not see anything in here stating, or anyone in here stating, that it should be for only felons of only a particular race

but nice try

 

[Ravi]

the question is moot.....the Constitution does not spell out a right to vote, henceforth, no right is being is being violated....the states have the authority to restrict voting....re-read the following:

"Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example. It does require that Representatives be chosen and Senators be elected by "the People," and who comprises "the People" has been expanded by the aforementioned amendments several times. Aside from these requirements, though, the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld."

However, to answer the question you asked me, no I do not support voting for felons currently being incarcerated....they have chosen by their actions to step outside of society, therefore they have no business in determing how society is governed.....

You are using someone's opinion, no? I googled it.

I don't think the constitution gives out any rights, rather it specifies which rights cannot be denied the American people. But just because a right isn't named does not mean the right does not exist.

Equal protection would cover this, I think. If the population is allowed to vote, instead of say the representatives of the population, then voting becomes a civil right.

 

[KGB]

My point is these protections should be constitutionally guaranteed to reformed convicts.

Not that denying reformed convicts of the right to vote is unconstitutional.

But that it's unAmerican.

how do you judge whether or not a person is considered "reformed"?

Being released from prison is no guarantee they will not commit the same crime again.....

 

[Lode]

ummm... from the linked article

In California, a team will stand in front of jails on Aug. 16 to register people visiting prisoners and encourage them to take registration cards to their incarcerated friends or family members, some of whom can legally vote.

I'll be damned.

I'm sorta ambivalent on that one.

 

[KGB]

Hold on. This thread is about registering newly eligible felons, which several posters were against.

Not whether people currently incarcerated should vote.

Ravi's question was whether or not I felt currently incarcerated felons should be allowed to vote...