Democracy and Majority Rule

[beretta304]

Anyone else notice that as far as this thread has gone, and despite all his posts, beretta hasn't actually expressed one opinion or argument of his own,

save to say that the US isn't a democracy. Which is wrong.

All of his other posts are just substanceless sniping at the people in the thread willing to argue the point.

Explains why he didn't put this in the clean debate zone.

NYCarbonbutt's last line of defense...the personal attack. He posts half a dozen straw man diversions and I'm supposed to jump on cue for him and Jake who makes up assertions as to what I said.

The fact that Jake can't post one assertion and NYCarbuncle can't draw me into one of his now infamous, "So you're sayng..." straw man arguments has frustrated him to the point of now launching ad hominem attacks.


Then in closing NYCan'tGetIt now wants to dictate where I'm supposed to put threads to please him.

You haven't made one post on your own topic in which you take a position of any substance.

And where you are concerned I'm not going to. You insult and mock, post strawman arguments and demand, not ask or coax for replies. Instead you want to steer the conversation where you want it to go and then pout because I don't jump on command.


Just like your pal Jake who 3 or 4 times made accusations of assertions that he claims that I made yet for some odd reason he can't direct anyone to on this thread.

 

[beretta304]

No shit they hated democracy. That's why in most states black, women, and even most men were excluded from voting. Thanks for the fucking history lesson, and welcome to the future.

Our Founders intended that government be run by wealthy white males to the exclusion of everyone else and it appears you would like the same.

Listen "AutOhI PoopedMyself, don't put words in my mouth and tell me what I would like.

So you're against the Founders ideas of who should run our country?

I refer you to the sentence above your reply to me.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Listen "AutOhI PoopedMyself, don't put words in my mouth and tell me what I would like.

So you're against the Founders ideas of who should run our country?

I refer you to the sentence above your reply to me.

I'm not. I asked you a question.


Are you for or against democracy?

 

[beretta304]

So you're against the Founders ideas of who should run our country?

I refer you to the sentence above your reply to me.

I'm not. I asked you a question.


Are you for or against democracy?

What would you think the answer would be to an inane question like that? I know where you going with this but let's play your game. I'll indulge you. Go ahead...

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I refer you to the sentence above your reply to me.

I'm not. I asked you a question.


Are you for or against democracy?

What would you think the answer would be to an inane question like that? I know where you going with this but let's play your game. I'll indulge you. Go ahead...

Go ahead with what? I'm waiting on your answer.

 

[beretta304]

I'm not. I asked you a question.


Are you for or against democracy?

What would you think the answer would be to an inane question like that? I know where you going with this but let's play your game. I'll indulge you. Go ahead...

Go ahead with what? I'm waiting on your answer.

Define democracy.

 

[dblack]

Democracy is fine. I'm not sure it's any more likely to produce just government, but it does support stability - people are less likely to revolt if they feel they are participating in their own governance. So that's a win.

The question isn't, in my view, whether democracy in particular should be limited, but whether government power in general should be limited. A lot of people seem to buy into the idea that if the majority wills it, it should be so - that government should not be limited in as much as it represents the "will of the people".

 

[DiamondDave]

8 Stages of democracy....

From Bondage to Spiritual Faith
From Spiritual Faith to Great Courage
From Courage to Liberty
From Liberty to Abundance
From Abundance to Complacency
From Complacency to Apathy
From Apathy to Dependence
From Dependence to back into Bondage

And in our country... the way the welfare state does with the entitlement junkies, and the way those who support the government redistribution to make it happen... we are dab smack in stage 7

Alexander Tyler was about spot on

But,

are we there (according to you or whoever wrote that for you) because we are a democracy,

or because we are not a democracy?

I gave you the source.... Known as the Tytler cycle (I mistyped the last name in the previous post... Tytler, not Tyler))... And much like so many other people in the present, there were plenty who wrongly labeled governments with some democratic processes as 'democracies'... but we all know what is meant when someone like Tytler or even GWB or Obama says a 'democracy'

We are there because of the abuse of the government we have, largely because of the tyranny of the majority and the butchering of checks and balances (and the butchering of our own Constitution for power grabs to pander to and appease the majority, in return for votes... those votes bringing a continual position of power in the governmental aristocracy)

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Far Right equate Democracy with runaway socialism: no wonder people of intelligence laugh at them.

We are a Constitutional Republic that runs generally on democratic principles. Checks and balances till work. Minority protections still are in place.

The Diamond Daves and beretta304s etc are not going to overturn the Will of the People, when DD and B can't even marshal an argument for their position, which is "we lost, wah!"

 

[NYcarbineer]

NYCarbonbutt's last line of defense...the personal attack. He posts half a dozen straw man diversions and I'm supposed to jump on cue for him and Jake who makes up assertions as to what I said.

The fact that Jake can't post one assertion and NYCarbuncle can't draw me into one of his now infamous, "So you're sayng..." straw man arguments has frustrated him to the point of now launching ad hominem attacks.


Then in closing NYCan'tGetIt now wants to dictate where I'm supposed to put threads to please him.

You haven't made one post on your own topic in which you take a position of any substance.

And where you are concerned I'm not going to. You insult and mock, post strawman arguments and demand, not ask or coax for replies. Instead you want to steer the conversation where you want it to go and then pout because I don't jump on command.


Just like your pal Jake who 3 or 4 times made accusations of assertions that he claims that I made yet for some odd reason he can't direct anyone to on this thread.

If there are areas that you want to prohibit the thread from being 'steered' towards you should list them in your OP.

I've made about 5 points on topic and you've failed to discuss any of them.

This is of course in keeping with your well established reputation as a board flooder, not a debater.

 

[beretta304]

The Far Right equate Democracy with runaway socialism: no wonder people of intelligence laugh at them.

We are a Constitutional Republic that runs generally on democratic principles. Checks and balances till work. Minority protections still are in place.

The Diamond Daves and beretta304s etc are not going to overturn the Will of the People, when DD and B can't even marshal an argument for their position, which is "we lost, wah!"

The fucking liar Jake is back and imagining once again.
Since you couldn't show where the assertions I made were posted, I call you out again to show where I ever complained on any thread that "we" lost.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Far Right equate Democracy with runaway socialism: no wonder people of intelligence laugh at them.

We are a Constitutional Republic that runs generally on democratic principles. Checks and balances till work. Minority protections still are in place.

The Diamond Daves and beretta304s etc are not going to overturn the Will of the People, when DD and B can't even marshal an argument for their position, which is "we lost, wah!"

The fucking liar Jake is back and imagining once again.
Since you couldn't show where the assertions I made were posted, I call you out again to show where I complained that "we" lost.

What do you believe Walter Williams' main point is?

 

[beretta304]

You haven't made one post on your own topic in which you take a position of any substance.

And where you are concerned I'm not going to. You insult and mock, post strawman arguments and demand, not ask or coax for replies. Instead you want to steer the conversation where you want it to go and then pout because I don't jump on command.


Just like your pal Jake who 3 or 4 times made accusations of assertions that he claims that I made yet for some odd reason he can't direct anyone to on this thread.

If there are areas that you want to prohibit the thread from being 'steered' towards you should list them in your OP.

I've made about 5 points on topic and you've failed to discuss any of them.

This is of course in keeping with your well established reputation as a board flooder, not a debater.

Let's see because you said I have to post, then I have to? Do I have that right? Let's see with all my posts I should bow to your piss poor attempt to try and force me to reply to you.


You presented 4 or 5 straw man arguments. The same straw man arguments that another poster called you out on a few days ago. It's how you operate on a daily basis. Change the subject, then present a straw man argument, whine a little and then cry that the other posters is either wrong or won't address you.


Tell you what. Hold your breath and I'll post a reply. But you keep holding it until I'm done. Okay?

 

[beretta304]

The Far Right equate Democracy with runaway socialism: no wonder people of intelligence laugh at them.

We are a Constitutional Republic that runs generally on democratic principles. Checks and balances till work. Minority protections still are in place.

The Diamond Daves and beretta304s etc are not going to overturn the Will of the People, when DD and B can't even marshal an argument for their position, which is "we lost, wah!"

The fucking liar Jake is back and imagining once again.
Since you couldn't show where the assertions I made were posted, I call you out again to show where I complained that "we" lost.

What do you believe Walter Williams' main point is?

Seems I have my own personal stalker. I would have preferred a female much to your chagrin NY.

Here in his own words:

"How many decisions in our day-to-day lives would we like to be made through majority rule or the democratic process? How about the decision to watch a football game or "Law and Order"? What about whether to purchase a Chevrolet Volt or a Toyota Prius? Would you like the decision of whether to have turkey or ham for Thanksgiving dinner to be made through the democratic process? Were such decisions made in the political arena, most of us would deem it tyranny. "


Now one can expand upon this and point out how we are not a democracy but a republic which is explained here.

Republic vs. Democracy



In a pure democracy 51 beats 49[%]. In a democracy there is no such thing as a significant minority: there are no minority rights except civil rights (privileges) granted by a condescending majority. Only five of the U.S. Constitution's first ten amendments apply to Citizens of the United States. Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Socrates was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable.

A republic and a democracy are identical in every aspect except one. In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group.

Republic. That form of government in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. [NOTE: The word "people" may be either plural or singular. In a republic the group only has advisory powers; the sovereign individual is free to reject the majority group-think. USA/exception: if 100% of a jury convicts, then the individual loses sovereignty and is subject to group-think as in a democracy.]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. [NOTE: In a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.]

 

[DiamondDave]

The Far Right equate Democracy with runaway socialism: no wonder people of intelligence laugh at them.

We are a Constitutional Republic that runs generally on democratic principles. Checks and balances till work. Minority protections still are in place.

The Diamond Daves and beretta304s etc are not going to overturn the Will of the People, when DD and B can't even marshal an argument for their position, which is "we lost, wah!"

1) We don't have a will of the people government, AKA a true democracy...
2) Our constitution is supposed to protect against pure popular will and the tyranny of the majority
3) The checks and balances in the constitution have been sidestepped and thwarted more and more
4) In one breath you talk about minority protection then you immediately follow with a statement about 'not overturning the will of the people'... you are indeed an idiot
5) Funny, I do not have any posts about 'we lost'... mainly because I voted for neither of the 2 major parties except for the congressional seat for my district...

 

[beretta304]

The Far Right equate Democracy with runaway socialism: no wonder people of intelligence laugh at them.

We are a Constitutional Republic that runs generally on democratic principles. Checks and balances till work. Minority protections still are in place.

The Diamond Daves and beretta304s etc are not going to overturn the Will of the People, when DD and B can't even marshal an argument for their position, which is "we lost, wah!"

The fucking liar Jake is back and imagining once again.
Since you couldn't show where the assertions I made were posted, I call you out again to show where I ever complained on any thread that "we" lost.

What do you believe Walter Williams' main point is?

And in summation,


"Today's Americans think Congress has the constitutional authority to do anything upon which they can get a majority vote. We think whether a measure is a good idea or a bad idea should determine its passage as opposed to whether that measure lies within the enumerated powers granted Congress by the Constitution. Unfortunately, for the future of our nation, Congress has successfully exploited American constitutional ignorance or contempt."

 

[bitterlyclingin]

Majority rule loses some of its sanctity, piety, and holiness when the Democrats consistently perform their "Miracles of the loaves and fishes" with their get out the vote operation each election, ie 155,000 registered voters in Florida's St Lucie county casting 247,000 ballots.
George S Patton had a stock speech with which he greeted his new troops: "I know some of you are afraid you won't know what to do when the time comes. Believe me, when you put your hand into a pile of goo that a moment before was your best friend's face, you'll know what to do!"

 

[NYcarbineer]

And where you are concerned I'm not going to. You insult and mock, post strawman arguments and demand, not ask or coax for replies. Instead you want to steer the conversation where you want it to go and then pout because I don't jump on command.


Just like your pal Jake who 3 or 4 times made accusations of assertions that he claims that I made yet for some odd reason he can't direct anyone to on this thread.

If there are areas that you want to prohibit the thread from being 'steered' towards you should list them in your OP.

I've made about 5 points on topic and you've failed to discuss any of them.

This is of course in keeping with your well established reputation as a board flooder, not a debater.

Let's see because you said I have to post, then I have to? Do I have that right? Let's see with all my posts I should bow to your piss poor attempt to try and force me to reply to you.


You presented 4 or 5 straw man arguments. The same straw man arguments that another poster called you out on a few days ago. It's how you operate on a daily basis. Change the subject, then present a straw man argument, whine a little and then cry that the other posters is either wrong or won't address you.


Tell you what. Hold your breath and I'll post a reply. But you keep holding it until I'm done. Okay?

I didn't post any straw man arguments . You don't know what a strawman argument is.

I posted about segregation, about gun control, about Madison's position on central government being a deterrent to tyranny of the minority.

 

[beretta304]

If there are areas that you want to prohibit the thread from being 'steered' towards you should list them in your OP.

I've made about 5 points on topic and you've failed to discuss any of them.

This is of course in keeping with your well established reputation as a board flooder, not a debater.

Let's see because you said I have to post, then I have to? Do I have that right? Let's see with all my posts I should bow to your piss poor attempt to try and force me to reply to you.


You presented 4 or 5 straw man arguments. The same straw man arguments that another poster called you out on a few days ago. It's how you operate on a daily basis. Change the subject, then present a straw man argument, whine a little and then cry that the other posters is either wrong or won't address you.


Tell you what. Hold your breath and I'll post a reply. But you keep holding it until I'm done. Okay?

I didn't post any straw man arguments . You don't know what a strawman argument is.

I posted about segregation, about gun control, about Madison's position on central government being a deterrent to tyranny of the minority.

Whatever you say...whatever you say......

 

[NYcarbineer]

The fucking liar Jake is back and imagining once again.
Since you couldn't show where the assertions I made were posted, I call you out again to show where I ever complained on any thread that "we" lost.

What do you believe Walter Williams' main point is?

And in summation,


"Today's Americans think Congress has the constitutional authority to do anything upon which they can get a majority vote. We think whether a measure is a good idea or a bad idea should determine its passage as opposed to whether that measure lies within the enumerated powers granted Congress by the Constitution. Unfortunately, for the future of our nation, Congress has successfully exploited American constitutional ignorance or contempt."

That doesn't make any sense.

1. Americans think that? Who?

2. 'We'? Who's the 'we' he's talking about?

3. We think passage should be determined by whether it's a good idea or not? And who gets to decide whether it's a good idea? The 'we' as in Walter Williams and people who think like he does? What about people who think Walter Williams' ideas are bad ideas?