Defeating Denormalization of Israel.

[cnm]

Have you ever shopped in Rami Levy?

I have the feeling Israel wouldn't admit me, no matter what Palestinians had to say about it. Apartheid like.

 

[Mindful]

Denormalization refers to the attempt to divide Israel from the international community by depicting it as a South African-type of apartheid state.

Discussing practical issues, even attempting to, would fry your brain. Did I say brain? Oops; sorry about that.

And yet South African leaders depict Israel as an apartheid state. That's a practical matter, Shirley?

Not interested in South Africa.

Go elsewhere to troll. ThIs is upstairs, had you failed to notice.

 

[cnm]

If Jordan is not an expression of the right of self-determination of the Palestinian people, then what is?

Bantustans.

 

[Mindful]

Have you ever shopped in Rami Levy?

I have the feeling Israel wouldn't admit me, no matter what Palestinians had to say about it. Apartheid like.

This is not about you.

Go away.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Denormalization refers to the attempt to divide Israel from the international community by depicting it as a South African-type of apartheid state.

Discussing practical issues, even attempting to, would fry your brain. Did I say brain? Oops; sorry about that.

And yet South African leaders depict Israel as an apartheid state. That's a practical matter, Shirley?

Those leaders are Christian extremists who hate Jews in any form or shape.

In other words, who cares what these South African leaders, who were probably pro Apartheid at the time it was going on - or their parents were - depict Israel.

Especially as they would never have the guts to go to Israel and see the non Apartheid Country they so demonize, as other South Africans have had the guts to do?

 

[cnm]

Not interested in South Africa.

Yet your OP is, shrieking at the thought of being labelled an apartheid state and desperately trying to defend against it. That's the whole point of the article, if you had read it.

 

[cnm]

This is not about you.

Then why did you ask about my shopping? It wasn't me who brought that up.

 

[cnm]

In other words, who cares what these South African leaders, who were probably pro Apartheid at the time it was going on - or their parents were - depict Israel.

Mandela and Tutu? Hilarity.

 

[Mindful]

Denormalization refers to the attempt to divide Israel from the international community by depicting it as a South African-type of apartheid state.

Discussing practical issues, even attempting to, would fry your brain. Did I say brain? Oops; sorry about that.

And yet South African leaders depict Israel as an apartheid state. That's a practical matter, Shirley?

Those leaders are Christian extremists who hate Jews in any form or shape.

In other words, who cares what these South African leaders, who were probably pro Apartheid at the time it was going on - or their parents were - depict Israel.

Especially as they would never have the guts to go to Israel and see the non Apartheid Country they so demonize, as other South Africans have had the guts to do?

Don't engage with him. He's a renowned Jew hating troll, who likes to derail threads.

 

[cnm]

What have Jews got to do with the thread? I thought it was about Israel's apartheid reputation and the concomitant hasbara. No?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

In other words, who cares what these South African leaders, who were probably pro Apartheid at the time it was going on - or their parents were - depict Israel.

Mandela and Tutu? Hilarity.

Now you say Mandela. You didn't say which South African leaders at first.

 

[Sixties Fan]

In other words, who cares what these South African leaders, who were probably pro Apartheid at the time it was going on - or their parents were - depict Israel.

Mandela and Tutu? Hilarity.

Tutu, absolutely.

Mandela - No.

------------------------

Still, Mandela was no orthodox leftist. In his autobiography, he discusses how he was strongly influenced by the Atlantic Charter of 1941, a mission statement shaped by the visions of Churchill and FDR for a post-war order in which freedom would reign, fear and want would be banished, and self-government would emerge as a core principle. Elsewhere in the book, he takes care to distinguish the African nationalism he subscribed to from the communist beliefs that prevailed among those he worked with — and his understanding of nationalism bears a close resemblance to the national movements that surfaced in Europe at the end of the nineteenth century, including Zionism.

This latter point is important because there is a widespread misapprehension that Mandela was an opponent of Zionism and Israel. In part, that’s because a mischievous letter linking Israel with apartheid, purportedly written by Mandela, went viral on the Internet (in fact, the real author was a Palestinian activist named Arjan el Fassed, who later claimed that his fabrication nevertheless reflected Mandela’s true feelings.) Yet it’s also true that, in the Cold War conditions of the time, the ANC’s main allies alongside the Soviets were Arab and third-world dictators like Ahmed Ben Bella in Algeria and Gamal Abdel Nasser in Egypt.

The confusion is further stirred by the enthusiasm of some of Mandela’s comrades, like Archbishop Desmond Tutu, to share the South African franchise on the word “apartheid” with the Palestinians.

But those activists who want to make the Palestinian cause the 21st century equivalent of the movement that opposed South African apartheid in the 20th century will — assuming they conform to basic standards of honesty — find it very difficult to invoke Mandela as support. Mandela’s memoirs are full of positive references to Jews and Israel. He recalls that he learned about guerilla warfare not from Fidel Castro, but from Arthur Goldreich, a South African Jew who fought with the Palmach during Israel’s War of Independence. He relates the anecdote that the only airline willing to fly his friend, Walter Sisulu, to Europe without a passport was Israel’s own El Al. And the ultimate smoking gun — the equation of Israel’s democracy with apartheid — doesn’t exist.

Mandela once wrote that Jews, in his experience, were far more sensitive about race because of their own history. Now, it is absolutely true that there are parallels between the oppression suffered by South African blacks under racist white rulers, and Jews living under hostile non-Jewish rulers. The notorious Group Areas Act, which restricted black residency rights, brings to mind the enforced separation of Jews into the “Pale of Settlement” by the Russian Empress Catherine in 1791. Many of the other apartheid regulations, like the ban on sexual relationships between whites and blacks, carried echoes of the Nazi Nuremburg Laws of 1935.

Mandela’s diagnosis was that Africans should be the sovereigns of their own destiny. Similarly, the founders of Zionism wanted nothing less for the Jews.

Sadly, none of that will stop today’s advocates of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement from falsely claiming Nelson Mandela as one of their own. But the truth is subtler than that. Mandela’s complicated legacy doesn’t really belong to any political stream — and that is one more reason to admire him.



Read more: Nelson Mandela and Zionism

Nelson Mandela and Zionism

 

[cnm]

Tutu, absolutely.

Mandela - No.

To what are you referring?

 

[cnm]

Perhaps Mandela did not say this.

 

[cnm]

The notorious Group Areas Act, which restricted black residency rights, brings to mind the enforced separation of Jews into the “Pale of Settlement” by the Russian Empress Catherine in 1791.

Of course there's no similarity with the Occupied Territories. No way. Zip, nada, nothing.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Tutu, absolutely.

Mandela - No.

To what are you referring?

The answer is in the article I posted.

You did not care to read.

 

[Indeependent]

US sponsors supporting the eponymous US Taylor Force Act

The question now is; who has to be culled to cut funds to the Israeli side of the house?

You want 2008 all over again?
Even the most self-hating Jews sent billions to Israel leaving non-Jewish organizations starving for money.
Surely you don’t believe for a second that wealthy Christian scumbags like Bill Gates give an actual penny to any charity not in Africa.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Perhaps Mandela did not say this.

Perhaps he was under the impression that the Arabs were the Blacks and the Jews were the European invaders?

When in reality the Arabs are like the European invaders ( as they are from the Arabian Peninsula ) and the Indigenous Jews were the ones under Apartheid for 1300 years of Muslim history.

Arab Muslims met Indigenous Jews on the Land of Israel in the 7th Century CE, not the other way around.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

US sponsors supporting the eponymous US Taylor Force Act

The question now is; who has to be culled to cut funds to the Israeli side of the house?

You want 2008 all over again?
Even the most self-hating Jews sent billions to Israel leaving non-Jewish organizations starving for money.
Surely you don’t believe for a second that wealthy Christian scumbags like Bill Gates give an actual penny to any charity not in Africa.

I am referring more to our tax dollars which go to that shit hole.

 

[Mindful]

US sponsors supporting the eponymous US Taylor Force Act

The question now is; who has to be culled to cut funds to the Israeli side of the house?

You want 2008 all over again?
Even the most self-hating Jews sent billions to Israel leaving non-Jewish organizations starving for money.
Surely you don’t believe for a second that wealthy Christian scumbags like Bill Gates give an actual penny to any charity not in Africa.

I am referring more to our tax dollars which go to that shit hole.

Which shithole?