Zone1 Decline of Christianity a good or a bad thing?

[Blues Man]

Karl Marx said communism is naturalized humanism. And for good reason too. It is. The left is pretty well known for attacking religion.

Marx was never responsible for implementing Socialism or Communism.

Funny how you people don't know that.

You blame the philosopher and scholar for the way other people used his words to justify their own bad acts. Kind of like religious people use the the bible or other religious texts to justify all kinds of shit.

 

[TNHarley]

Just calling it as I see it. I see more Democrats attacking religion than conservatives. Which makes sense because they are left leaning and socialism has always sought to subordinate religion like you are doing.

I see Democrats denying reality more than conservatives.

 

[TNHarley]

I can read fine enough to see the similarity of blaming guns for violence instead of men just as you blaming religion instead of men.

Guns dont talk
"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

 

[Meriweather]

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

Don't stop there. Read on. The Amalekites live on. It happens in other battles, other places. Read on. Those people reappear as well. It appears authors use hyperbole, and while the audiences of the time most likely understood this (as they were still living among those tribes), readers today can't determine the actuality. What we do know from modern history is that war is never pretty.

 

[TNHarley]

Don't stop there. Read on. The Amalekites live on. It happens in other battles, other places. Read on. Those people reappear as well. It appears authors use hyperbole, and while the audiences of the time most likely understood this (as they were still living among those tribes), readers today can't determine the actuality. What we do know from modern history is that war is never pretty.

Completely irrelevant to what we were discussing.

 

[Meriweather]

Completely irrelevant to what we were discussing.

Think more deeply. You were blaming religion for violence and to support your point you used a Bible verse you believed to be relevant. That particular verse is irrelevant to the discussion in other ways as well, but as you are trying to avoid irrelevance, perhaps you can find a better example that supports your own theory?

 

[TNHarley]

Think more deeply. You were blaming religion for violence and to support your point you used a Bible verse you believed to be relevant. That particular verse is irrelevant to the discussion in other ways as well, but as you are trying to avoid irrelevance, perhaps you can find a better example that supports your own theory?

So my argument being, that guns dont tell people to kill people but god does, and using a quote from the bible where god commanded people to kill people, isnt relevant? Mkay

 

[Funzo Hoss]

I have no problem with Christians it's when they try to exert their beliefs on everyone else. In Indiana they just started letting the public purchase alcohol on Sundays. Keep your nutter ass beliefs to yourselves. One think I can say about this newer generation they will not be having any of this Jebus bullshit.

 

[Meriweather]

So my argument being, that guns dont tell people to kill people but god does, and using a quote from the bible where god commanded people to kill people, isnt relevant?

Government tells people to kill people, correct? Crime bosses tell people to kill people, correct? In other words, people tell people to kill people--or people tell themselves it is okay to kill another.

What I find interesting about the Bible, we see the same thing there. God did not tell the people...Moses (a person) told the people. Also interesting are the accounts of Moses, a person, asking God not to punish/kill the people, in this case the Israelites. I wonder how the story might have changed had Moses asked God not to kill the Amalekites (and other tribes).

What happens when the people tell the government to not go to war, or to end a war?

Blaming God or guns distracts us from the true quest: How to keep people from killing people. No, don't ask God to take care of it for us, don't ask the government to take care of/solve the issue. People...how do we solve this. It's not that it can't be done...Quakers have been doing it for centuries now, all without the government.

 

[TNHarley]

Government tells people to kill people, correct? Crime bosses tell people to kill people, correct? In other words, people tell people to kill people--or people tell themselves it is okay to kill another.

Yep but there is nothing we can do about that. Well, there is, but it will never happen because most people are too weak and entitled.
We can do something about your book of savagery. Like ignore it.

 

[Meriweather]

I have no problem with Christians it's when they try to exert their beliefs on everyone else.

Would you consider Chick-fil A closing on Sunday an example of Christians trying to "exert their beliefs on everyone else"?

Churches did not rule on no sale of alcohol on Sunday. Government did. Why? Certainly not to support Christianity. Back in the day it was to prevent the men not only from wasting household money that meant women and children going hungry, it was to scale down men getting drunk and abusing wives and children on weekends. It also sobered them up so they were in shape to return to work on Monday.

 

[Meriweather]

Yep but there is nothing we can do about that. Well, there is, but it will never happen because most people are too weak and entitled.
We can do something about your book of savagery. Like ignore it.

I wish those who have that understanding of the Bible would ignore it if they cannot be bothered to study and understand it is just the opposite. It addresses the savagery that is present--and has always been present-- in human life. The solutions it offers/has offered in the midst of our savagery is too often overlooked.

 

[TNHarley]

Would you consider Chick-fil A closing on Sunday an example of Christians trying to "exert their beliefs on everyone else"?

Thats a private business.

it was to scale down men getting drunk and abusing wives and children on weekends

Yet, it was legal to abuse your wife on sunday at the courthouse.
Kind of a weird excuse for the state govts, huh?

 

[TNHarley]

I wish those who have that understanding of the Bible would ignore it if they cannot be bothered to study and understand it is just the opposite. It addresses the savagery that is present--and has always been present-- in human life. The solutions it offers/has offered in the midst of our savagery is too often overlooked.

Solutions? Like to kill newborns?
I am sure everyone is sorry for not interpreting the bible the way you do, to justify all its bull$***

 

[Meriweather]

Solutions? Like to kill newborns?
I am sure everyone is sorry for not interpreting the bible the way you do,

It was an atheist Jew, whose first language was Hebrew, that first took time to teach me about Hebrew scripture and the great differences between the Hebrew language and English. At the time, I couldn't understand the difference God was portrayed by the New Testament and the Old Testament.

In Hebrew, there is very little difference, mainly because Jews start with the premise that God is good, just, and merciful--and humans not so much. It is this battle between good and evil that Hebrew scripture tells. Unlike the movies where good triumphs in an hour or two, this battle is endless. People find themselves in a pickle and say, "What now?"

I do not interpret the Bible. I study it, the sources often being rabbis who are proficient in Hebrew, and can even think in Hebrew. I was told long ago that thinking in Hebrew is an entirely different kettle of fish from thinking in English. In order to learn Hebrew scripture, I have had to do my best to let go of the English.

It's not for everyone. I think I'm now in my third decade of study. Seriously, who has the time? Unfortunately that's how the English interpretation/understanding prevails--we don't have the time, don't take the time.

 

[TNHarley]

mainly because Jews start with the premise that God is good, just, and merciful

lol

 

[ding]

Marx was never responsible for implementing Socialism or Communism.

Funny how you people don't know that.

You blame the philosopher and scholar for the way other people used his words to justify their own bad acts. Kind of like religious people use the the bible or other religious texts to justify all kinds of shit.

I didn't blame anyone for anything. I was merely relaying what he said about communism being naturalized humanism. A statement I believe he was correct in stating. But to say his work wasn't responsible for implementing Socialism or Communism is a bit misleading. He certainly was an advocate of such.

Human Requirements and Division of Labour, Marx, 1844

 

[ding]

I see Democrats denying reality more than conservatives.

I think we all do to some degree, but sure. I see liberals as being more emotional and less objective. Although conservatives certainly have their fair share of those too.

 

[ding]

Guns dont talk
"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

Neither does religion. You are quoting men.

 

[ding]

lol

It's because you categorically reject that premise that you can't properly interpret the bible. Your bias is getting in the way of your objectivity.