Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments

[MikeK]

FYI. SS is not headed to bankruptcy. They can continue making payments for generations to come.

You are correct in theory only. The problem is the fund should be solvent but it's been depleted by improper management.

Actually there never was a real fund in the separate and tangible sense of the word. The Social Security fund existed only on paper. The FICA contributions were absorbed into the general fund, which has become depleted by mismanagement -- such as starting two major military engagement without budgeting them and lowering taxes at the same time, which were two components of Bush's plan to deliberately wreck the economy and ruin the wealthy middle class.

 

[MikeK]

BTW... I am a CPA.

I HIGHLY doubt this. Otherwise you would not be dismissing $2.5T in assets as mere "IOUs".

You actually believe that $2.5 trillion exists in real assets? It doesn't. As Soggy has said, it exists only in IOUs. And that is why they are talking about defaulting on payments after August 3.

 

[grunt11b]

 

[Steelplate]

really? Coming from the Kings of fear mongering? What a joke.

 

[editec]

BTW... I am a CPA.

I HIGHLY doubt this. Otherwise you would not be dismissing $2.5T in assets as mere "IOUs".

You actually believe that $2.5 trillion exists in real assets? It doesn't. As Soggy has said, it exists only in IOUs. And that is why they are talking about defaulting on payments after August 3.

As is the other $12.5 trillion owed by the Feds.

the primary difference being that the Federal government can elect to CHANGE the terms of payment to the Social Security recipients, but it cannot change the terms of repayment to the other holders of US debt.

So think about the implications of that, folks.

The people are forced lend our government money (in the form of SS payments) without any guarantee of repayment.

But when big capital freely elects to lend the FED money, their loans come with irnoclad guarantees of repayment.

Nice scam, huh?

Now I know that a lot of you guys think it okay to cut back on repayment of social security.

But think about what you're really doing.

You are telling us that you care more about some fucking international banker's rights, than you care about your own fellow citizens and next door neighbors.

Now seriously, tell me again about how much you guys love this nation?

 

[Flopper]

I see a lot of talk about a balanced budget amendment... What you have to realize is... it's not going to happen. At least not before the deadline. Attaching a Balanced budget amendment to the debt ceiling is pure Politics from the GOP.

Why? Not only do you have to get the House of Representatives and the Senate to vote for it. But it needs to be put to a vote in every state of the Union and needs to pass in 3/4 of the states.

They know it's not going to happen... it's just campaign fodder for 2012.

This is all campaign fodder for 2012. Tea party Republicans have got to get some decent cuts out of the Democrats to come close to matching their promises. The Dems don't have to do anything, just sit back and watch this Republican deficit reduction plan blowup in their faces. That would mean another recession but this is all about something much more important, votes in 2012.

Hi Flopper, right you are. I really think that Schumer was right when he said that the GOP was possible holding back so they could get Obama. I think there have been tons of people that have been thinking the same thing but nobody wanted to be first to say it.

This is all about votes. Let's pray they don't succeed in bringing down the government.

There seems to be a growing number of right wing radicals that believe the government must be destroyed before it can be saved. That's why the right is not concerned about a second recession.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

This is all campaign fodder for 2012. Tea party Republicans have got to get some decent cuts out of the Democrats to come close to matching their promises. The Dems don't have to do anything, just sit back and watch this Republican deficit reduction plan blowup in their faces. That would mean another recession but this is all about something much more important, votes in 2012.

Hi Flopper, right you are. I really think that Schumer was right when he said that the GOP was possible holding back so they could get Obama. I think there have been tons of people that have been thinking the same thing but nobody wanted to be first to say it.

This is all about votes. Let's pray they don't succeed in bringing down the government.

There seems to be a growing number of right wing radicals that believe the government must be destroyed before it can be saved. That's why the right is not concerned about a second recession.

Then why is the Left so actively working to prolong their abysmal economic downturn?

 

[Flopper]

I HIGHLY doubt this. Otherwise you would not be dismissing $2.5T in assets as mere "IOUs".

You actually believe that $2.5 trillion exists in real assets? It doesn't. As Soggy has said, it exists only in IOUs. And that is why they are talking about defaulting on payments after August 3.

As is the other $12.5 trillion owed by the Feds.

the primary difference being that the Federal government can elect to CHANGE the terms of payment to the Social Security recipients, but it cannot change the terms of repayment to the other holders of US debt.

So think about the implications of that, folks.

The people are forced lend our government money (in the form of SS payments) without any guarantee of repayment.

But when big capital freely elects to lend the FED money, their loans come with irnoclad guarantees of repayment.

Nice scam, huh?

Now I know that a lot of you guys think it okay to cut back on repayment of social security.

But think about what you're really doing.

You are telling us that you care more about some fucking international banker's rights, than you care about your own fellow citizens and next door neighbors.

Now seriously, tell me again about how much you guys love this nation?

Very good point. Unlike bond holders who invested and assumed the risks associated with any investment, our seniors made no such choice. They were forced to contribute to the trust fund which the government is holding in trust for them. The trust fund belongs to those who contributed to it, not the government.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You actually believe that $2.5 trillion exists in real assets? It doesn't. As Soggy has said, it exists only in IOUs. And that is why they are talking about defaulting on payments after August 3.

As is the other $12.5 trillion owed by the Feds.

the primary difference being that the Federal government can elect to CHANGE the terms of payment to the Social Security recipients, but it cannot change the terms of repayment to the other holders of US debt.

So think about the implications of that, folks.

The people are forced lend our government money (in the form of SS payments) without any guarantee of repayment.

But when big capital freely elects to lend the FED money, their loans come with irnoclad guarantees of repayment.

Nice scam, huh?

Now I know that a lot of you guys think it okay to cut back on repayment of social security.

But think about what you're really doing.

You are telling us that you care more about some fucking international banker's rights, than you care about your own fellow citizens and next door neighbors.

Now seriously, tell me again about how much you guys love this nation?

Very good point. Unlike bond holders who invested and assumed the risks associated with any investment, our seniors made no such choice. They were forced to contribute to the trust fund which the government is holding in trust for them. The trust fund belongs to those who contributed to it, not the government.

If held in trust, then why are they borrowing money to make payments from it?

There are no funds held in trust... it all goes into the GF and is spent.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.

Although the Treasury Department likely could avoid delaying Social Security checks, the analysis by the Bipartisan Policy Center points up the depth of the cuts that would be needed if the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling isn't raised.

It shows that in August, the government could not afford to meet 44% of its obligations. Since the $134 billion deficit for that month couldn't be covered with more borrowing, programs would have to be cut.

If Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, payments to defense contractors and interest payments on Treasury bonds were exempt, that would be all the government could afford for the month. No money for troops or veterans. No tax refunds. No food stamps or welfare. No federal salaries or benefits.

Want to protect the social safety net? That would be possible — but only if Treasury stopped paying defense contractors, jeopardizing national security. Plus virtually every federal agency and employee.

"We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic," said Jay Powell, a former top Treasury official in President George H.W. Bush's administration. "There is no way to avoid really serious pain."

The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and spending for August 2009 and 2010 and found that the government likely would not have enough revenue to make the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due Aug. 3. That's the first Wednesday of the month, when a majority of Social Security and Supplemental Security Income checks go out.

Things wouldn't improve much as the days pass. The first major interest payment to creditors would be due Aug. 15 — $29 billion, more than the $22 billion due to arrive in revenue.

On that day, Treasury would have to roll over nearly $500 billion in maturing debt — necessitating an auction which, by that time, might have fewer takers than usual. If demand declines, interest rates would rise.

As the center foresees it, the picture would get worse: layoffs and lawsuits. Global market reaction and media glare. A possible downgrade in the U.S. credit rating, perhaps followed by the loss of market access.
The effect on the country, said former Republican senator Pete Domenici of New Mexico, would be "irretrievable."

Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

The guy that wrote that is an idiot, or lying to scare people. Social Security is a separate governement fund that is independent of the general fund.

 

[Susan45]

Honest to God, sometimes I think some of you folks don't know how to use your computers.

The SS administration has all the info at your fingertips.

Trust Fund FAQs

It's just bullsh*t, plain and simple that the money is just "taken" by the federal government without having to account for it. That is just not true.

This is your government insurance...go find out the truth about it. It's just painful to see so much ignorance about the program.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Honest to God, sometimes I think some of you folks don't know how to use your computers.

The SS administration has all the info at your fingertips.

Trust Fund FAQs

It's just bullsh*t, plain and simple that the money is just "taken" by the federal government without having to account for it. That is just not true.

This is your government insurance...go find out the truth about it. It's just painful to see so much ignorance about the program.

It is taken by the federal government. They DO have to account for it but when they spend it, what good is the accounting?
It's true, liberal ignorance about the program is painful.

 

[Flopper]

BTW... I am a CPA.

I HIGHLY doubt this. Otherwise you would not be dismissing $2.5T in assets as mere "IOUs".

You actually believe that $2.5 trillion exists in real assets? It doesn't. As Soggy has said, it exists only in IOUs. And that is why they are talking about defaulting on payments after August 3.

By law, the 2.5 trillion in Social Security Trust assets are invested in US government treasuries just as the assets of millions of individual investors, pension funds, banks, and nations around the world. If the 2.5 trillion dollars in trust fund assets become worthless, our ability to pay Social Security benefits will be least of our problems.

BTW Real assets are tangible asset like gold, oil, and real estate. It's not legal for the fund to hold these.

 

[Flopper]

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.

Although the Treasury Department likely could avoid delaying Social Security checks, the analysis by the Bipartisan Policy Center points up the depth of the cuts that would be needed if the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling isn't raised.

It shows that in August, the government could not afford to meet 44% of its obligations. Since the $134 billion deficit for that month couldn't be covered with more borrowing, programs would have to be cut.

If Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, payments to defense contractors and interest payments on Treasury bonds were exempt, that would be all the government could afford for the month. No money for troops or veterans. No tax refunds. No food stamps or welfare. No federal salaries or benefits.

Want to protect the social safety net? That would be possible — but only if Treasury stopped paying defense contractors, jeopardizing national security. Plus virtually every federal agency and employee.

"We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic," said Jay Powell, a former top Treasury official in President George H.W. Bush's administration. "There is no way to avoid really serious pain."

The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and spending for August 2009 and 2010 and found that the government likely would not have enough revenue to make the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due Aug. 3. That's the first Wednesday of the month, when a majority of Social Security and Supplemental Security Income checks go out.

Things wouldn't improve much as the days pass. The first major interest payment to creditors would be due Aug. 15 — $29 billion, more than the $22 billion due to arrive in revenue.

On that day, Treasury would have to roll over nearly $500 billion in maturing debt — necessitating an auction which, by that time, might have fewer takers than usual. If demand declines, interest rates would rise.

As the center foresees it, the picture would get worse: layoffs and lawsuits. Global market reaction and media glare. A possible downgrade in the U.S. credit rating, perhaps followed by the loss of market access.
The effect on the country, said former Republican senator Pete Domenici of New Mexico, would be "irretrievable."

Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

The guy that wrote that is an idiot, or lying to scare people. Social Security is a separate governement fund that is independent of the general fund.

If the administration does not mange the situation well, it is possible but highly unlikely provided Congress eventually comes to some agreement.

The danger is not so much to social security but to investor confidence. If the investors in 15 trillion dollars in US debt believe there is any chance that their principal and interest is not safe, the shit will hit fan big time. There is only one reason investors own treasury bonds, safety. That's why a 10 year treasury is only paying about 3.1% in interest.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.

Although the Treasury Department likely could avoid delaying Social Security checks, the analysis by the Bipartisan Policy Center points up the depth of the cuts that would be needed if the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling isn't raised.

It shows that in August, the government could not afford to meet 44% of its obligations. Since the $134 billion deficit for that month couldn't be covered with more borrowing, programs would have to be cut.

If Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, payments to defense contractors and interest payments on Treasury bonds were exempt, that would be all the government could afford for the month. No money for troops or veterans. No tax refunds. No food stamps or welfare. No federal salaries or benefits.

Want to protect the social safety net? That would be possible — but only if Treasury stopped paying defense contractors, jeopardizing national security. Plus virtually every federal agency and employee.

"We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic," said Jay Powell, a former top Treasury official in President George H.W. Bush's administration. "There is no way to avoid really serious pain."

The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and spending for August 2009 and 2010 and found that the government likely would not have enough revenue to make the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due Aug. 3. That's the first Wednesday of the month, when a majority of Social Security and Supplemental Security Income checks go out.

Things wouldn't improve much as the days pass. The first major interest payment to creditors would be due Aug. 15 — $29 billion, more than the $22 billion due to arrive in revenue.

On that day, Treasury would have to roll over nearly $500 billion in maturing debt — necessitating an auction which, by that time, might have fewer takers than usual. If demand declines, interest rates would rise.

As the center foresees it, the picture would get worse: layoffs and lawsuits. Global market reaction and media glare. A possible downgrade in the U.S. credit rating, perhaps followed by the loss of market access.
The effect on the country, said former Republican senator Pete Domenici of New Mexico, would be "irretrievable."

Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

The guy that wrote that is an idiot, or lying to scare people. Social Security is a separate governement fund that is independent of the general fund.

If the administration does not mange the situation well, it is possible but highly unlikely provided Congress eventually comes to some agreement.

The danger is not so much to social security but to investor confidence. If the investors in 15 trillion dollars in US debt believe there is any chance that their principal and interest is not safe, the shit will hit fan big time. There is only one reason investors own treasury bonds, safety. That's why a 10 year treasury is only paying about 3.1% in interest.

I agree that a complete meltdown would make SS payments iffy, but I do not see that happening. The US has gone past the debt ceiling point of no return before and suffered no ill affects because the administration prudently restructured payments and kept the ball rolling. They did it this year to stretch out the point of no return by 2 months, and I am sure they can stretch it further if they have to.

Sooner or later the GOP will agree to some tax hikes over this. I just want them to hold out until they get significant, and real, spending cuts.

 

[MikeK]

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.

Although the Treasury Department likely could avoid delaying Social Security checks, the analysis by the Bipartisan Policy Center points up the depth of the cuts that would be needed if the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling isn't raised.

It shows that in August, the government could not afford to meet 44% of its obligations. Since the $134 billion deficit for that month couldn't be covered with more borrowing, programs would have to be cut.

If Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, payments to defense contractors and interest payments on Treasury bonds were exempt, that would be all the government could afford for the month. No money for troops or veterans. No tax refunds. No food stamps or welfare. No federal salaries or benefits.

Want to protect the social safety net? That would be possible — but only if Treasury stopped paying defense contractors, jeopardizing national security. Plus virtually every federal agency and employee.

"We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic," said Jay Powell, a former top Treasury official in President George H.W. Bush's administration. "There is no way to avoid really serious pain."

The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and spending for August 2009 and 2010 and found that the government likely would not have enough revenue to make the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due Aug. 3. That's the first Wednesday of the month, when a majority of Social Security and Supplemental Security Income checks go out.

Things wouldn't improve much as the days pass. The first major interest payment to creditors would be due Aug. 15 — $29 billion, more than the $22 billion due to arrive in revenue.

On that day, Treasury would have to roll over nearly $500 billion in maturing debt — necessitating an auction which, by that time, might have fewer takers than usual. If demand declines, interest rates would rise.

As the center foresees it, the picture would get worse: layoffs and lawsuits. Global market reaction and media glare. A possible downgrade in the U.S. credit rating, perhaps followed by the loss of market access.
The effect on the country, said former Republican senator Pete Domenici of New Mexico, would be "irretrievable."

Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

The guy that wrote that is an idiot, or lying to scare people. Social Security is a separate governement fund that is independent of the general fund.

If that's true, why is Social Security included in the August default threat? I believe the Social Security Fund is a fund in the rhetorical sense and the S.O.B.s in Congress have spent or stolen every nickel of the FICA contributions.

(Excerpt)

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.
Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

(Close)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.

Although the Treasury Department likely could avoid delaying Social Security checks, the analysis by the Bipartisan Policy Center points up the depth of the cuts that would be needed if the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling isn't raised.

It shows that in August, the government could not afford to meet 44% of its obligations. Since the $134 billion deficit for that month couldn't be covered with more borrowing, programs would have to be cut.

If Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, payments to defense contractors and interest payments on Treasury bonds were exempt, that would be all the government could afford for the month. No money for troops or veterans. No tax refunds. No food stamps or welfare. No federal salaries or benefits.

Want to protect the social safety net? That would be possible — but only if Treasury stopped paying defense contractors, jeopardizing national security. Plus virtually every federal agency and employee.

"We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic," said Jay Powell, a former top Treasury official in President George H.W. Bush's administration. "There is no way to avoid really serious pain."

The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and spending for August 2009 and 2010 and found that the government likely would not have enough revenue to make the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due Aug. 3. That's the first Wednesday of the month, when a majority of Social Security and Supplemental Security Income checks go out.

Things wouldn't improve much as the days pass. The first major interest payment to creditors would be due Aug. 15 — $29 billion, more than the $22 billion due to arrive in revenue.

On that day, Treasury would have to roll over nearly $500 billion in maturing debt — necessitating an auction which, by that time, might have fewer takers than usual. If demand declines, interest rates would rise.

As the center foresees it, the picture would get worse: layoffs and lawsuits. Global market reaction and media glare. A possible downgrade in the U.S. credit rating, perhaps followed by the loss of market access.
The effect on the country, said former Republican senator Pete Domenici of New Mexico, would be "irretrievable."

Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

The guy that wrote that is an idiot, or lying to scare people. Social Security is a separate governement fund that is independent of the general fund.

If that's true, why is Social Security included in the August default threat? I believe the Social Security Fund is a fund in the rhetorical sense and the S.O.B.s in Congress have spent or stolen every nickel of the FICA contributions.

(Excerpt)

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.
Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

(Close)

It is included because the government owes the Social Security trust fund a lot of money. That does not mean that the government will stop paying Social Security if we do not raise the debt limit, it just means the administration will have to cut something else that is not part of the actual money the government owes.

 

[Toro]

The guy that wrote that is an idiot, or lying to scare people. Social Security is a separate governement fund that is independent of the general fund.

If that's true, why is Social Security included in the August default threat? I believe the Social Security Fund is a fund in the rhetorical sense and the S.O.B.s in Congress have spent or stolen every nickel of the FICA contributions.

(Excerpt)

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.
Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

(Close)

It is included because the government owes the Social Security trust fund a lot of money. That does not mean that the government will stop paying Social Security if we do not raise the debt limit, it just means the administration will have to cut something else that is not part of the actual money the government owes.

Actually, it does mean that SS checks may not be sent out, at least on time.

Particular August days will be far worse than the monthly totals suggest. For example, on Aug. 3, we project that the government will have about $12 billion in receipts and $32 billion in committed payments, including a $23 billion Social Security payment. And Aug. 15 presents a triple threat: a $19 billion daily deficit, a $29 billion interest payment and a quarterly refunding auction to pay off a maturing $27 billion bond.

Opinion: Real implications of debt debate - Jerome H. Powell - POLITICO.com

The government has to send out $23 billion in SS checks on Aug 3. If we hit the debt ceiling on Aug 2, the government will only have $12 billion in revenues. Thus, at the very least, SS checks will be delayed, if not worse.

The good news is that receipts may be picking up, and the debt ceiling may be pushed back to August 22.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If that's true, why is Social Security included in the August default threat? I believe the Social Security Fund is a fund in the rhetorical sense and the S.O.B.s in Congress have spent or stolen every nickel of the FICA contributions.

(Excerpt)

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.
Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

(Close)

It is included because the government owes the Social Security trust fund a lot of money. That does not mean that the government will stop paying Social Security if we do not raise the debt limit, it just means the administration will have to cut something else that is not part of the actual money the government owes.

Actually, it does mean that SS checks may not be sent out, at least on time.

Particular August days will be far worse than the monthly totals suggest. For example, on Aug. 3, we project that the government will have about $12 billion in receipts and $32 billion in committed payments, including a $23 billion Social Security payment. And Aug. 15 presents a triple threat: a $19 billion daily deficit, a $29 billion interest payment and a quarterly refunding auction to pay off a maturing $27 billion bond.

Opinion: Real implications of debt debate - Jerome H. Powell - POLITICO.com

The government has to send out $23 billion in SS checks on Aug 3. If we hit the debt ceiling on Aug 2, the government will only have $12 billion in revenues. Thus, at the very least, SS checks will be delayed, if not worse.

The good news is that receipts may be picking up, and the debt ceiling may be pushed back to August 22.

If that happens you will know that it was a decision made by the Obama administration. He has broad legal authority to restructure payments and prioritize who gets what. He can easily pay SS and stop paying something else. If he is actually willing to step up to the plate he can shut down half the government and use the savings to pay whatever he wants.

Enjoy blaming the Republicans though.

 

[Flopper]

The guy that wrote that is an idiot, or lying to scare people. Social Security is a separate governement fund that is independent of the general fund.

If the administration does not mange the situation well, it is possible but highly unlikely provided Congress eventually comes to some agreement.

The danger is not so much to social security but to investor confidence. If the investors in 15 trillion dollars in US debt believe there is any chance that their principal and interest is not safe, the shit will hit fan big time. There is only one reason investors own treasury bonds, safety. That's why a 10 year treasury is only paying about 3.1% in interest.

I agree that a complete meltdown would make SS payments iffy, but I do not see that happening. The US has gone past the debt ceiling point of no return before and suffered no ill affects because the administration prudently restructured payments and kept the ball rolling. They did it this year to stretch out the point of no return by 2 months, and I am sure they can stretch it further if they have to.

Sooner or later the GOP will agree to some tax hikes over this. I just want them to hold out until they get significant, and real, spending cuts.

If no agreement is reached by end of this month you can bet Wall Street will start pressuring congress.