Death at Burger King Ruled a Homicide

[chanel]

DETROIT -- A 67-year-old man police believe was homeless died after being punched and knocked to the ground during a scuffle with a 20-year-old Burger King employee in Detroit, and authorities ruled the death a homicide Friday.

An autopsy determined Paul Cannon died from blunt force trauma to the head, said Dennis Niemiec, a spokesman for the Wayne County medical examiner's office. An earlier report suggested the punch may have caused Cannon to choke on his dentures, but Niemiec said the dentures played no role in the death.

Police said Cannon was reportedly causing a disturbance Thursday afternoon at the restaurant on the city's east side and tried to hit the worker, who swung back.

"A verbal argument occurred," police Sgt. Eren Stephens said. "It escalated into a physical altercation."


Read more: Michigan Man's Death at Burger King Ruled a Homicide - FoxNews.com

I realize we don't have all the details, but based on the O.P. - a homicide? Really? The other guy swung first.

Comments?

 

[R.C. Christian]

I've heard some "whoppers" in my time but this takes the cake.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Depends on State law. In NC there is no right to self defense. A DA can charge a person even if they kill someone in self defense.

Further by finding it a homicide that does not mean the employee will be charged with murder. He can be charged with lesser degrees of taking another life. Depends on the DA and the State law.

 

[José]

This is probably the mother of all off-topic posts... just couldn't find an appropriate place to post it.

My mother is also a huge fan of the 1940's pin up girl, channel, like you seem to be... So I think you're gonna enjoy this...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGiSbDani0U"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGiSbDani0U[/ame]

 

[chanel]

Thanks Jose. That was cool.

 

[editec]

Must have been one helluva punch to kill the guy.

 

[goldcatt]

The death was a result of one person killing another. The reason or justification or lack thereof doesn't matter, that is the definition of "homicide".

Whether or not it's criminal homicide ("murder") is a different question and the decision whether to pursue charges will lie with the DA's office. But of the available classifications, blunt force trauma to the head under these circumstances certainly isn't natural causes, it's not an accident and it's not a suicide.

If not "homicide", how would you have the ME categorize the death for statistical and vital records purposes?

 

[JBeukema]

DETROIT -- A 67-year-old man police believe was homeless died after being punched and knocked to the ground during a scuffle with a 20-year-old Burger King employee in Detroit, and authorities ruled the death a homicide Friday.

An autopsy determined Paul Cannon died from blunt force trauma to the head, said Dennis Niemiec, a spokesman for the Wayne County medical examiner's office. An earlier report suggested the punch may have caused Cannon to choke on his dentures, but Niemiec said the dentures played no role in the death.

Police said Cannon was reportedly causing a disturbance Thursday afternoon at the restaurant on the city's east side and tried to hit the worker, who swung back.

"A verbal argument occurred," police Sgt. Eren Stephens said. "It escalated into a physical altercation."


Read more: Michigan Man's Death at Burger King Ruled a Homicide - FoxNews.com

I realize we don't have all the details, but based on the O.P. - a homicide? Really? The other guy swung first.

Comments?

Coroners/Medical Examiners rule a death a homicide.

It's up to the D.A. to decide whether to call it murder or manslaughter and pursue charges.


At least that's how it works in my state. By definition, this is a homicide

S: (n) homicide (the killing of a human being by another human being)

WordNet Search - 3.0

 

[ConHog]

The death was a result of one person killing another. The reason or justification or lack thereof doesn't matter, that is the definition of "homicide".

Whether or not it's criminal homicide ("murder") is a different question and the decision whether to pursue charges will lie with the DA's office. But of the available classifications, blunt force trauma to the head under these circumstances certainly isn't natural causes, it's not an accident and it's not a suicide.

If not "homicide", how would you have the ME categorize the death for statistical and vital records purposes?

Exactly, people need to understand the difference between a medical determination and criminal charges in cases like this.

Side note, my wife says she would charge the 20 y/o with negligent homicide based on circumstances. Common sense dictates that a 20 y/o probably could have chosen other tactics to defend himself against a 67 y/o man besides throwing a haymaker; and in AR you only have a right to defend yourself if you feel your life was in danger.

 

[Jos]

I guess He got it his way, ya'all want fries wid dat?

 

[Sallow]

If someone attacks you..you have the right to defend yourself..up until the threat is abated..which I have done on numerous occassions.

This case seems like self-defense. The homeless person accepted the rules of combat when he swung. Case closed.

 

[ConHog]

If someone attacks you..you have the right to defend yourself..up until the threat is abated..which I have done on numerous occassions.

This case seems like self-defense. The homeless person accepted the rules of combat when he swung. Case closed.

You have the right to use appropriate force, killing someone who takes a swing at you is NOT using appropriate force.

 

[Sallow]

If someone attacks you..you have the right to defend yourself..up until the threat is abated..which I have done on numerous occassions.

This case seems like self-defense. The homeless person accepted the rules of combat when he swung. Case closed.

You have the right to use appropriate force, killing someone who takes a swing at you is NOT using appropriate force.

Read the article. The guy died because he choked on his dentures.

I hit pretty hard. If some idiot tries something and I crack his skull..am I now a murderer?

No freakin way.

 

[Revere]

The death was a result of one person killing another. The reason or justification or lack thereof doesn't matter, that is the definition of "homicide".

Whether or not it's criminal homicide ("murder") is a different question and the decision whether to pursue charges will lie with the DA's office. But of the available classifications, blunt force trauma to the head under these circumstances certainly isn't natural causes, it's not an accident and it's not a suicide.

If not "homicide", how would you have the ME categorize the death for statistical and vital records purposes?

Exactly, people need to understand the difference between a medical determination and criminal charges in cases like this.

Side note, my wife says she would charge the 20 y/o with negligent homicide based on circumstances. Common sense dictates that a 20 y/o probably could have chosen other tactics to defend himself against a 67 y/o man besides throwing a haymaker; and in AR you only have a right to defend yourself if you feel your life was in danger.

You have no clue what the hell drugs those street people are on and what desperate things they would do.

 

[Sarah G]

If someone attacks you..you have the right to defend yourself..up until the threat is abated..which I have done on numerous occassions.

This case seems like self-defense. The homeless person accepted the rules of combat when he swung. Case closed.

You have the right to use appropriate force, killing someone who takes a swing at you is NOT using appropriate force.

Read the article. The guy died because he choked on his dentures.

I hit pretty hard. If some idiot tries something and I crack his skull..am I now a murderer?

No freakin way.

An autopsy determined Paul Cannon died from blunt force trauma to the head, said Dennis Niemiec, a spokesman for the Wayne County medical examiner's office. An earlier report suggested the punch may have caused Cannon to choke on his dentures, but Niemiec said the dentures played no role in the death.

He didn't choke on his dentures. The young guy hit him, he died, it's a homicide. (imo)

 

[Wry Catcher]

DETROIT -- A 67-year-old man police believe was homeless died after being punched and knocked to the ground during a scuffle with a 20-year-old Burger King employee in Detroit, and authorities ruled the death a homicide Friday.

An autopsy determined Paul Cannon died from blunt force trauma to the head, said Dennis Niemiec, a spokesman for the Wayne County medical examiner's office. An earlier report suggested the punch may have caused Cannon to choke on his dentures, but Niemiec said the dentures played no role in the death.

Police said Cannon was reportedly causing a disturbance Thursday afternoon at the restaurant on the city's east side and tried to hit the worker, who swung back.

"A verbal argument occurred," police Sgt. Eren Stephens said. "It escalated into a physical altercation."


Read more: Michigan Man's Death at Burger King Ruled a Homicide - FoxNews.com

I realize we don't have all the details, but based on the O.P. - a homicide? Really? The other guy swung first.

Comments?

Coroner reports, in my experience have very few causes of death at their disposal:
Death at the hands of another
Accidental
Natural
suicide

Death at the hands of another would likely be reviewed by the District Attorney to decide if it was murder, manslaughter or justifable. The report says "authorities" decided it was homicide, we need to know who the authority is (police, DA, coroner) and if the language in the coroners report is really "homicide" and not changed by a reporter or other source from "death at the hands of another".

 

[ConHog]

If someone attacks you..you have the right to defend yourself..up until the threat is abated..which I have done on numerous occassions.

This case seems like self-defense. The homeless person accepted the rules of combat when he swung. Case closed.

You have the right to use appropriate force, killing someone who takes a swing at you is NOT using appropriate force.

Read the article. The guy died because he choked on his dentures.

I hit pretty hard. If some idiot tries something and I crack his skull..am I now a murderer?


No freakin way.

Yes, if you hit someone and they have a heart attack and die, you CAN be charged with homicide. Your actions led to the heart attack. You don't HAVE to take a swing at someone who takes one at you.

 

[WillowTree]

If someone attacks you..you have the right to defend yourself..up until the threat is abated..which I have done on numerous occassions.

This case seems like self-defense. The homeless person accepted the rules of combat when he swung. Case closed.

You have the right to use appropriate force, killing someone who takes a swing at you is NOT using appropriate force.

Read the article. The guy died because he choked on his dentures.

I hit pretty hard. If some idiot tries something and I crack his skull..am I now a murderer?

No freakin way.

You are a freaking moron. This is what I read. but Niemiec said the dentures played no role in the death.

 

[WillowTree]

Without having all the details I think a 67 year old homeless man would be in less than optimal condition. I think the employee of the burger king had help at his disposal and did not have to kill the man to subdue him. I think he should be charged with voluntary manslaughter.

 

[frazzledgear]

DETROIT -- A 67-year-old man police believe was homeless died after being punched and knocked to the ground during a scuffle with a 20-year-old Burger King employee in Detroit, and authorities ruled the death a homicide Friday.

An autopsy determined Paul Cannon died from blunt force trauma to the head, said Dennis Niemiec, a spokesman for the Wayne County medical examiner's office. An earlier report suggested the punch may have caused Cannon to choke on his dentures, but Niemiec said the dentures played no role in the death.

Police said Cannon was reportedly causing a disturbance Thursday afternoon at the restaurant on the city's east side and tried to hit the worker, who swung back.

"A verbal argument occurred," police Sgt. Eren Stephens said. "It escalated into a physical altercation."


Read more: Michigan Man's Death at Burger King Ruled a Homicide - FoxNews.com

I realize we don't have all the details, but based on the O.P. - a homicide? Really? The other guy swung first.

Comments?

It only means it was a death at the hands of another -at autopsy the pathologist is the one who determines the manner of death. There are only four manners of death: natural causes -which this definitely was not; accidental -as in tripping on your feet and falling or walking under a ladder as it tips over and knocks you in the head; suicide -again this was not; and homicide -death at the hands of another. Which means the person would be alive were it not for the deliberate actions of another person that were specifically directed at that person knowing those actions could reasonably be expected to cause harm. (As opposed to someone who carelessly left the ladder where it might fall on someone.) It is not unreasonable to anticipate that if an older homeless man gets punched by a young, fit, healthy man it could lead to his serious injury or even death. So accidental death is automatically ruled out here and only leaves homicide as the manner of death -death at the hands of another.

But it is the MEANS of death that determines whether a crime has been committed. A pathologist does not determine the means of death -whether it was done in self-defense, premeditated, negligent manslaughter etc. That is determined by homicide detectives as part of their investigation. If a person is charged with a crime, it will be because of the means of death -not necessarily the manner of death and sometimes charged with a crime in spite of the manner of death. A pathologist could rule someone's manner of death to be accidental yet police charge someone with negligent manslaughter -for example, the person who left that ladder knew it had a tendency to suddenly tip over or left it in such a way tipping over was foreseeable - yet left it where there was heavy foot traffic - thereby putting people at risk of injury or death that under the law, someone would be reasonably expected to anticipate might happen. Even though there was no intent to cause injury or death to anyone and the manner of death would be accidental, the means of death could be a criminal act anyway and the person who left the ladder charged with a crime.

The homeless guy did die as the result of a homicide because were it not for the fact the employee struck him, he would be alive. Death at the hands of another. But that doesn't mean the employee committed murder as it is defined under the law as opposed to some lesser crime or no crime at all if deemed to be a justifiable homicide. That still has to be determined by the police investigation.