Dear GOP, stop saying "Close loopholes, lower the rates and expand the tax base"

[rdean]

We know what it means.

It means the wealthy should pay less taxes and the poor should pay more.

Everybody pays taxes. It's a lie to say they don't.

Next, they'll be shouting, "Let him die" or applauding executions. I know, that seems really far fetched with so many being Christian and all.

Should we "expand the base"?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

First, a small percentage of a very big number is bigger than a big percentage of a small number. The wider the tax base, the larger the tax collection.

Second, the higher the tax rate, the more loopholes pay off. High tax rates encourage political cheating and scamming of the tax code. Lower rates that everyone pays are better than high rates that no one pays because they made pay offs. If there are no exemptions, we get the whole tax. A lower rate with 98.6% compliance is worth a lot more than a high rate that is so full of holes it is there only as an ornament to cupidity and envy with no revenue produced at all.

As to everyone pays taxes, there is a reason there is something called the AMT. And people manage to skate past that.

YOur next paragraph makes no sense in terms of the preceding. The first half is from some lefty stooge. As to the second, well people like it when the bad guys go down. Remember how this board responded with the extra judicial killings of Osama, that American dude that was his next in line, and of course Qadaffi. Those cheers you heard were not exclucivly from one side, you know.

As to the next rhetorical question... as far as taxes, the answer is an unequivocal yes.



Now the next question..... what precisely are you smoking there? Are you getting enough oxygen in your system? I kind of doubt it.

 

[J.E.D]

Next, they'll be shouting, "Let him die" or applauding executions. I know, that seems really far fetched with so many being Christian and all.

And if they go that far, what's to stop them from booing a gay service member or saying, "If you don't Have a job and you are not rich, blame yourself"? Imagine the world in which that sickening scenario would take place.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

First, a small percentage of a very big number is bigger than a big percentage of a small number.

That statement is not in general true.
It depends on what numbers you use. Did you make it past 5th grade?

The wider the tax base, the larger the tax collection.

Second, the higher the tax rate, the more loopholes pay off. High tax rates encourage political cheating and scamming of the tax code.

And widening the tax base doesn't?

That's like saying higher penalties for crimes encourage lying under oath - therefore, we should never increase the penalty for a crime.

Its also grossly ignorant of the FACT that tax collections as a % of GDP are at present hovering lower than they have in decades.

Lower rates that everyone pays are better than high rates that no one pays because they made pay offs. If there are no exemptions, we get the whole tax. A lower rate with 98.6% compliance is worth a lot more than a high rate that is so full of holes it is there only as an ornament to cupidity and envy with no revenue produced at all.

I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I GET THIS ONE STRAIGHT - YOU'RE TELLING US THAT ITS HARDER FOR A SHRIMP BOAT CAPTAIN WHO DEALS EXCLUSIVELY IN CASH AND MAKES 30K A YEAR TO EVADE TAXES THAN A WEALTHY INVESTOR WHO MAKES $10,000,000 A YEAR TRADING ELECTRONICALLY ON THE NASDAQ?

The two groups most frequently audited by the IRS are the rich and the poor. The rich because there is a lot more to gain from catching a rich person evading taxes - the poor because its so damn easy for folks with cash incomes to just not report it. Just think of the shear volume of cash TIPS received by wait staff, bartenders, valet parkers, etc. etc. etc. - you think its hard for them to just NOT REPORT that income?

By no means am I suggesting its OK for the poor to cheat on their taxes anymore than the rich -it isn't- point is, your above argument requires that it be easier for the rich to cheat on their taxes than the poor - and its just not true.

The middle class have the hardest time cheating because they typically get most of their income by check.

 

[rdean]

Next, they'll be shouting, "Let him die" or applauding executions. I know, that seems really far fetched with so many being Christian and all.

And if they go that far, what's to stop them from booing a gay service member or saying, "If you don't Have a job and you are not rich, blame yourself"? Imagine the world in which that sickening scenario would take place.

I can't imagine Americans doing those kinds of things. It's not what we are about.

 

[DiamondDave]

We know what it means.

It means the wealthy should pay less taxes and the poor should pay more.

Everybody pays taxes. It's a lie to say they don't.

Next, they'll be shouting, "Let him die" or applauding executions. I know, that seems really far fetched with so many being Christian and all.

Should we "expand the base"?

Try everyone paying an equal rate... you know... like you screaming for other 'equality in treatment' ONLY when it benefits you

You fucking cum guzzling gutter slut winger

And no, not everybody pays federal income tax.... and the 'evil' rich you ignorantly complain about also pay little things called gas tax, luxury tax, airport taxes, etc just like everyone else... it's just that it is about time that the preferential treatment of any citizen or group of citizens STOPS...

 

[driveby]

This thread means RDean now has a phone he can post from while hanging around Wall St. pissing all over himself.......

 

[Wiseacre]

We're getting close to the point where half of the country pays no federal income tax, and some even get rebates back. I think that's a problem, we should have more taxpayers, even if it isn't for that much. Yes, I know some of them already pay the SS tax, sales taxes, property taxes and the rest. But I think broadening the tax base is a good idea, just as eventually we should raise taxes on the upper crust. But today is not the time to raise anybody's taxes, we oughta wait until the economy is more stable and growing. Clinton said that awhile back, and so did Obama himself a few years ago.

 

[Avatar4321]

no. that's not what it means at all.

But regardless, you wont get me to stop saying that. This nation still has liberty for the time being. And even if it didn't it's the truth.

 

[Zoom-boing]

We know what it means.

It means the wealthy should pay less taxes and the poor should pay more.

Everybody pays taxes. It's a lie to say they don't.

Next, they'll be shouting, "Let him die" or applauding executions. I know, that seems really far fetched with so many being Christian and all.

Should we "expand the base"?

Obama is going around saying that everyone isn't paying their fair share and he's right. When are those (nearly) 50% who aren't paying any fed tax gonna start paying their fair share?

 

[eflatminor]

We know what it means.

It means the wealthy should pay less taxes and the poor should pay more.

Everybody pays taxes. It's a lie to say they don't.

Next, they'll be shouting, "Let him die" or applauding executions. I know, that seems really far fetched with so many being Christian and all.

Should we "expand the base"?

The poor, and a good portion of the middle class, pay NO federal income tax; it's nearly half the country that falls into this camp....this is what is being referred to when 'expanding the base' is advocated.

Secondly, the 'rich' have been paying an increasing share of the overall tax burden for some time. The effective tax burden (tax share in relation to income share) was 5.62 times higher for the rich than for the poor in 1980 and 9.0 times higher in 2008. Thus, the relative tax burden on the rich -- relative to income -- compared to the poor nearly doubled from 1980 to 2008.

But what to facts mean to you anyway? I suspect if the government confiscated 100% of income from the wealthy (which wouldn't even cover this year's deficit much less begin to chip away at the debt), you still would want more.

 

[rdean]

We know what it means.

It means the wealthy should pay less taxes and the poor should pay more.

Everybody pays taxes. It's a lie to say they don't.

Next, they'll be shouting, "Let him die" or applauding executions. I know, that seems really far fetched with so many being Christian and all.

Should we "expand the base"?

The poor, and a good portion of the middle class, pay NO federal income tax; it's nearly half the country that falls into this camp....this is what is being referred to when 'expanding the base' is advocated.

Secondly, the 'rich' have been paying an increasing share of the overall tax burden for some time. The effective tax burden (tax share in relation to income share) was 5.62 times higher for the rich than for the poor in 1980 and 9.0 times higher in 2008. Thus, the relative tax burden on the rich -- relative to income -- compared to the poor nearly doubled from 1980 to 2008.

But what to facts mean to you anyway? I suspect if the government confiscated 100% of income from the wealthy (which wouldn't even cover this year's deficit much less begin to chip away at the debt), you still would want more.

Everyone pays taxes. If you buy new shoes, you pay taxes.

Strange how right wingers want to saddle the poor with higher taxes. It's like the right wing won't be happy until they are really suffering. Then you look at corporations who have so much cash, they are buying back their stock. The top 12 largest corporations pay no taxes and get money back in the form of subsidies. As if they need it.

When did right wingers fall so hard in love with people who would "squish" them like bugs if given the chance?

 

[eflatminor]

Strange how right wingers want to saddle the poor with higher taxes.

Absolutely 100% NOT true. I want the government to spend less. Big frickin' difference. It's you that demands spending beyond our means. If that's the way it's to be, everyone must pay FEDERAL income tax, which is what we're talking about.

 

[eflatminor]

The top 12 largest corporations pay no taxes and get money back in the form of subsidies. As if they need it.

You're saying the following corporations pay no taxes?:

1 Wal-Mart Stores
2 Exxon Mobil
3 Chevron
4 General Motors
5 ConocoPhillips
6 General Electric
7 Ford Motor
8 Citigroup
9 Bank of America Corp.
10 AT&T
11 Berkshire Hathaway
12 J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.

Are you retarded?

In 2010, Wal-Mart alone paid $7,156,000,000 in taxes. They're expecting to pay $7,579,000,000 in 2011.

Shut up.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Well, all I got to say in response is:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ing-close-loopholes-and-provide-tax-cuts.html

 

[WatertheTree]

The top 12 largest corporations pay no taxes and get money back in the form of subsidies. As if they need it.

You're saying the following corporations pay no taxes?:

1 Wal-Mart Stores
2 Exxon Mobil
3 Chevron
4 General Motors
5 ConocoPhillips
6 General Electric
7 Ford Motor
8 Citigroup
9 Bank of America Corp.
10 AT&T
11 Berkshire Hathaway
12 J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.

Are you retarded?

In 2010, Wal-Mart alone paid $7,156,000,000 in taxes. They're expecting to pay $7,579,000,000 in 2011.

Shut up.

Well while that guy may not know what he is talking about ill tell you a true fact. Last year the top 4 corporations profited more money then what every corporation paid in taxes.

 

[editec]

Note how every time we discuss taxes people talk about closing loopholes?

Note also that every time I ask these folks "WHAT LOOPHOLE would you close?" nobody responds?


These morons think that changing the tax RATES = closing loopholes.

It doesn't.

Not remotely.

Rates have nothing to do with loopholes.

And no, if the rates change the US tax code is not going to be simplified.

It cannot be simplified because the US tax codes addresses issues surrounding compex questions about what is a justified deduction for each industry.

And it is in those CODES where the dreaded loopholes exist.

Those koopholes that all this boards self proclaiming TAX EXPERTS can't seem to indentify.


My poinht here?

Our fellow posters don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

They aren't not only not experts, they don't have fucking clue what they're talking about.

 

[DiamondDave]

We know what it means.

It means the wealthy should pay less taxes and the poor should pay more.

Everybody pays taxes. It's a lie to say they don't.

Next, they'll be shouting, "Let him die" or applauding executions. I know, that seems really far fetched with so many being Christian and all.

Should we "expand the base"?

The poor, and a good portion of the middle class, pay NO federal income tax; it's nearly half the country that falls into this camp....this is what is being referred to when 'expanding the base' is advocated.

Secondly, the 'rich' have been paying an increasing share of the overall tax burden for some time. The effective tax burden (tax share in relation to income share) was 5.62 times higher for the rich than for the poor in 1980 and 9.0 times higher in 2008. Thus, the relative tax burden on the rich -- relative to income -- compared to the poor nearly doubled from 1980 to 2008.

But what to facts mean to you anyway? I suspect if the government confiscated 100% of income from the wealthy (which wouldn't even cover this year's deficit much less begin to chip away at the debt), you still would want more.

Everyone pays taxes. If you buy new shoes, you pay taxes.

Strange how right wingers want to saddle the poor with higher taxes. It's like the right wing won't be happy until they are really suffering. Then you look at corporations who have so much cash, they are buying back their stock. The top 12 largest corporations pay no taxes and get money back in the form of subsidies. As if they need it.

When did right wingers fall so hard in love with people who would "squish" them like bugs if given the chance?

What is strange is how you want to saddle everyone else with higher taxes, and eliminate more for yourself... all the while screaming in other aspects about equal treatment or equality... it is as hypocritical as you can get...

And you keep with your typical little ploy... when everyone else tells you more and more people pay no FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.... you keep mentioning other taxes that are payed, and not just by 'the poor' but by EVERYONE.... nice try, winger, but your little attempt at diversion is not going to be allowed to slide

 

[DiamondDave]

Note how every time we discuss taxes people talk about closing loopholes?

Note also that every time I ask these folks "WHAT LOOPHOLE would you close?" nobody responds?


These morons think that changing the tax RATES = closing loopholes.

It doesn't.

Not remotely.

Rates have nothing to do with loopholes.

And no, if the rates change the US tax code is not going to be simplified.

It cannot be simplified because the US tax codes addresses issues surrounding compex questions about what is a justified deduction for each industry.

And it is in those CODES where the dreaded loopholes exist.

Those koopholes that all this boards self proclaiming TAX EXPERTS can't seem to indentify.


My poinht here?

Our fellow posters don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

They aren't not only not experts, they don't have fucking clue what they're talking about.

The pages and pages of deductions, shifting rates, tax shelters, etc.... eliminate loopholes (every single one of them), eliminate the possibility of loopholes with a simplified system, equalize the tax rate on every dollar earned

Simple enough??

 

[editec]

Note how every time we discuss taxes people talk about closing loopholes?

Note also that every time I ask these folks "WHAT LOOPHOLE would you close?" nobody responds?


These morons think that changing the tax RATES = closing loopholes.

It doesn't.

Not remotely.

Rates have nothing to do with loopholes.

And no, if the rates change the US tax code is not going to be simplified.

It cannot be simplified because the US tax codes addresses issues surrounding compex questions about what is a justified deduction for each industry.

And it is in those CODES where the dreaded loopholes exist.

Those koopholes that all this boards self proclaiming TAX EXPERTS can't seem to indentify.


My poinht here?

Our fellow posters don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

They aren't not only not experts, they don't have fucking clue what they're talking about.

The pages and pages of deductions, shifting rates, tax shelters, etc.... eliminate loopholes (every single one of them), eliminate the possibility of loopholes with a simplified system, equalize the tax rate on every dollar earned

Simple enough??

YOu wrote a lot of words but not a plan.

What loopholes specifically would you eliminate?

Name ONE --- Just one! -- that Cains plan or any of the FLAT TAXERS have told YOU about.

What loophole, in the OIL industry, for example, will Cains plan close?

I'll tell you because I know you don't know.

It won't close a single loophole.