DADT dead, finally, equal rights, and we catch up with the rest of the world!

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

Like the noble, battle hardened nation of Israel, who has allowed my brethren so serve openly for a while now, AND THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH IT, OR FROM IT.

I know a couple dudes still in, this will effect and benefit them. I know they're relieved to know that they no longer have to live a lie and can be honest, real, and proud if they so choose.

IF WE'RE WILLING TO DIE FOR THIS GREAT NATION, WE DESERVE @ LEAST THAT MUCH.

To the likely closeted, sad, bass ackwards, bigots like SwordOfDamocles, Sunni Man, SaggyinNola I say: This is equal civil rights, FINALLY. Our patriotism aint stained by ignorant bigotry like yours is. The VAST MAJORITY of the military is fine with this and knows that they been serving alongside us this whole time WITH NO PROBLEMS ANYWAY.

Don't like progress? LEAVE.

 

[editec]

Don't ask don't CARE

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Like the noble, battle hardened nation of Israel, who has allowed my brethren so serve openly for a while now, AND THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH IT, OR FROM IT.

I know a couple dudes still in, this will effect and benefit them. I know they're relieved to know that they no longer have to live a lie and can be honest, real, and proud if they so choose.

IF WE'RE WILLING TO DIE FOR THIS GREAT NATION, WE DESERVE @ LEAST THAT MUCH.

To the likely closeted, sad, bass ackwards, bigots like SwordOfDamocles, Sunni Man, SaggyinNola I say: This is equal civil rights, FINALLY. Our patriotism aint stained by ignorant bigotry like yours is. The VAST MAJORITY of the military is fine with this and knows that they been serving alongside us this whole time WITH NO PROBLEMS ANYWAY.

Don't like progress? LEAVE.

Don't like progress? LEAVE

Don't like destruction don't do foolish things

 

[Reidlr]

Righteous 1: Please find for me where it states that a VAST MAJORITY of the military does not care. I would just appreciate you providing some backing for your statement. As a former active duty Marine and now government worker, I do not find your claim to be true.

I have several issues about what the media is putting out. First, the report published by the Department of Defense (DoD) working group, they only recieved, "responses from 115,052 Service members and 44,266 military spouses." (1) This is a very small fraction of the total force in the U.S. military. Currently, the U.S. military is composed of a total of 2,843,622 personnel (2). The survey only covered 4% of the total force. Not even close to a vast majority. The media is utilizing the percentage of those surveyed and portraying that number as 100%.

In the report also states that of, "...more than 115,000 active duty service members indicated only 29.4 percent would “take no action” if they were assigned to share an “open bay shower” with a homosexual." (3)

Thanks in advance for your clarification.

1. Department of Defense. "Report of the Comprehensive Review of the Issues Associated with a Repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”. 30 Nov 2010. http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_gatesdadt/DADTReport_FINAL_20101130(secure-hires).pdf (accessed on 20 Dec 2010), Pg 49.

2. GlobalFirePower.com. "United States of America Military Strength." 12 Feb 2009. Military Strength of United States of America (accessed on 20 Dec 2010)

3. Department of Defense. "Report of the Comprehensive Review of the Issues Associated with a Repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”. 30 Nov 2010. http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_gatesdadt/DADTReport_FINAL_20101130(secure-hires).pdf (accessed on 20 Dec 2010), Pg 67.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

That report is flawed yea, but I know you'll get similar results no matter how many times you repoll.

I have yet to meet a service member who is bigoted enough to dislike me, or the many gay service members I know, which includes Marines, Army, and Navy. None of the straight service members I know do, I know em in all branches, they're fine with it.

They know there's more important things to worry bout than tryna shit on your fellow countryman's patriotism for something he can't help, and likely won't effect you.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

KABUL - The gay Army lieutenant's heart had been racing all night.

Shuffling between meetings at his outpost in eastern Afghanistan on Saturday night, the 27-year-old officer kept popping his head into the main office to catch a glimpse of Fox News's coverage of the Senate debate that led to a vote lifting the ban on gay men and lesbians serving in the military openly.

"Don't cry," a 21-year-old specialist, one of the lieutenant's confidants, told his boss jokingly when news broke that 65 senators had voted to repeal "don't ask, don't tell."

"I'm completely numb," was all the lieutenant could mutter.

Across the world, other gay troops whose lives, careers and relationships have been indelibly, if sometimes quietly, shaped by the ban reacted to the news with a mixture of rapture and disbelief.

Many had seethed for weeks as the political debate over the repeal became laden with sexual innuendo and suggestions that openly gay soldiers on the front lines might become life-threatening distractions.

"I was flipping out," the lieutenant said Saturday night, speaking by phone. "This turned into a [expletive] political fight. We were caught in the middle of it. But the people who it affects the most couldn't do anything about it. We felt used."

The stakes were also high for the specialist. His brother is gay and had vowed to join the Air Force if the policy were repealed this year. Their father is also gay, which made attending military events somewhat awkward for the family.

Gay troops cautiously optimistic following 'don't ask' repeal

 

[Reidlr]

That report is flawed yea, but I know you'll get similar results no matter how many times you repoll.

I have yet to meet a service member who is bigoted enough to dislike me, or the many gay service members I know, which includes Marines, Army, and Navy. None of the straight service members I know do, I know em in all branches, they're fine with it.

They know there's more important things to worry bout than tryna shit on your fellow countryman's patriotism for something he can't help, and likely won't effect you.

The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.

Just making a point that there was no real research put into this. The repeal of DADT is strictly political and has nothing to do with what is needed or not needed in the U.S. military.

People like you just bought into the political and media spin and assumed that the report generated favorable opinions in the military regarding repeal of DADT. In all actuality, repeal is not favored in the military, but then people do not want to hear that. It is done now, so I suppose it really does not matter what is wanted or not wanted.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

Reidlr wrote:

The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.

That's a common conspiracy theory with opponents of DADT, and equal civil rights, etc. You weren't part of that polling process, I highly doubt anyway, so you can keep floating that theory and the made up "discounted" numbers if yall want to make yourselves feel better. But again, NO STRAIGHT service member I know had a problem with me serving, NONE, IN ANY BRANCH. Sad thing is, you've very likely already served with my brethren, aint know it, got close with them, and upon founding out they happen to be gay, will dislike, even hate them......sad indeed.

 

[California Girl]

Like the noble, battle hardened nation of Israel, who has allowed my brethren so serve openly for a while now, AND THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH IT, OR FROM IT.

I know a couple dudes still in, this will effect and benefit them. I know they're relieved to know that they no longer have to live a lie and can be honest, real, and proud if they so choose.

IF WE'RE WILLING TO DIE FOR THIS GREAT NATION, WE DESERVE @ LEAST THAT MUCH.

To the likely closeted, sad, bass ackwards, bigots like SwordOfDamocles, Sunni Man, SaggyinNola I say: This is equal civil rights, FINALLY. Our patriotism aint stained by ignorant bigotry like yours is. The VAST MAJORITY of the military is fine with this and knows that they been serving alongside us this whole time WITH NO PROBLEMS ANYWAY.

Don't like progress? LEAVE.

Will you fuck off telling other Americans to leave. This country belongs to ALL Americans. Being gay does not make you special. You're just one of 320 million. Get the fuck over yourself.

Oh... and... you don't need to start a thread on every fucking thought that goes through your head.

And.... your signature is completely fucking ridiculous. It's a fucking internet forum, you stupid fuck.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

Like the noble, battle hardened nation of Israel, who has allowed my brethren so serve openly for a while now, AND THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH IT, OR FROM IT.

I know a couple dudes still in, this will effect and benefit them. I know they're relieved to know that they no longer have to live a lie and can be honest, real, and proud if they so choose.

IF WE'RE WILLING TO DIE FOR THIS GREAT NATION, WE DESERVE @ LEAST THAT MUCH.

To the likely closeted, sad, bass ackwards, bigots like SwordOfDamocles, Sunni Man, SaggyinNola I say: This is equal civil rights, FINALLY. Our patriotism aint stained by ignorant bigotry like yours is. The VAST MAJORITY of the military is fine with this and knows that they been serving alongside us this whole time WITH NO PROBLEMS ANYWAY.

Don't like progress? LEAVE.

Will you fuck off telling other Americans to leave. This country belongs to ALL Americans. Being gay does not make you special. You're just one of 320 million. Get the fuck over yourself.

Oh... and... you don't need to start a thread on every fucking thought that goes through your head.

And.... your signature is completely fucking ridiculous. It's a fucking internet forum, you stupid fuck.

Any other spaz attacks sweetie? Or are we done?

Free speech, Ima keep using it, don't like it, LEAVE.

 

[Mini 14]

Last time I checked, Bradley Manning was still in the military, and still a fudge packer.

DADT didn't keep him from reaching his potential.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Like the noble, battle hardened nation of Israel, who has allowed my brethren so serve openly for a while now, AND THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH IT, OR FROM IT.

I know a couple dudes still in, this will effect and benefit them. I know they're relieved to know that they no longer have to live a lie and can be honest, real, and proud if they so choose.

IF WE'RE WILLING TO DIE FOR THIS GREAT NATION, WE DESERVE @ LEAST THAT MUCH.

To the likely closeted, sad, bass ackwards, bigots like SwordOfDamocles, Sunni Man, SaggyinNola I say: This is equal civil rights, FINALLY. Our patriotism aint stained by ignorant bigotry like yours is. The VAST MAJORITY of the military is fine with this and knows that they been serving alongside us this whole time WITH NO PROBLEMS ANYWAY.

Don't like progress? LEAVE.

Will you fuck off telling other Americans to leave. This country belongs to ALL Americans. Being gay does not make you special. You're just one of 320 million. Get the fuck over yourself.

Oh... and... you don't need to start a thread on every fucking thought that goes through your head.

And.... your signature is completely fucking ridiculous. It's a fucking internet forum, you stupid fuck.

And you're one of just 320 million. This country belongs to the Liberals you love to bash as well. As someone who leans more Libertarian than anything else, the party whose ideals I agree with the most never gets voted into office-and yet this is still just as much my country as yours. Get off your condescending high horse. You're always calling people who don't think like you do dumb or stupid, not only does that weaken your argument, but ironically not respecting other's opinions, and telling them to shut up, is one of the most un-american things one can do. It goes against the very fabric of what the United States so great.

 

[ABikerSailor]

That report is flawed yea, but I know you'll get similar results no matter how many times you repoll.

I have yet to meet a service member who is bigoted enough to dislike me, or the many gay service members I know, which includes Marines, Army, and Navy. None of the straight service members I know do, I know em in all branches, they're fine with it.

They know there's more important things to worry bout than tryna shit on your fellow countryman's patriotism for something he can't help, and likely won't effect you.

The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.

Just making a point that there was no real research put into this. The repeal of DADT is strictly political and has nothing to do with what is needed or not needed in the U.S. military.

People like you just bought into the political and media spin and assumed that the report generated favorable opinions in the military regarding repeal of DADT. In all actuality, repeal is not favored in the military, but then people do not want to hear that. It is done now, so I suppose it really does not matter what is wanted or not wanted.

Hey stupid.........as a RETIRED US Navy veteran who served honorably from 1982 until 2002, lemmie tell ya some stuff.......

Apparently, you've been on a deployment. You as a Marine should know that when shit goes south on the homefront, your mind isn't on the situation at hand, be it wife, girlfriend or whatever. However........you have the luxury of being able to contact home via the Red Cross or the ombudsman.

Gays don't have that. Why? Because if it ever comes to light they will be kicked out of the military.

Will repeal of DADT make our military stronger? Yeah, because then they won't have to worry about continuing their service.

And for the bigoted assholes such as yourself who will get out because they don't want to serve with gays? Great! Leave my military and become a civvie. We don't need bigots in my military.

Besides.........the manning levels will be MORE than offset by the many gays who would jump at the chance to serve.

 

[Reidlr]

Reidlr wrote:

The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.

That's a common conspiracy theory with opponents of DADT, and equal civil rights, etc. You weren't part of that polling process, I highly doubt anyway, so you can keep floating that theory and the made up "discounted" numbers if yall want to make yourselves feel better. But again, NO STRAIGHT service member I know had a problem with me serving, NONE, IN ANY BRANCH. Sad thing is, you've very likely already served with my brethren, aint know it, got close with them, and upon founding out they happen to be gay, will dislike, even hate them......sad indeed.

Please do not pretend as if you know who I am or what I believe!

It is no conspiracy theory! It is in the text of the report. I am sure you can read and I highly encourage you to read the report. On multiple occasions it is noted that the thoughts of those against the repeal do not represent the majority; however it is noted that the majority of those surveyed did not want to see a repeal.

In particular the Army and Marine Combat arms are strongly against the repeal. These two sections form the heart and soul of the U.S. military. How can you force a change in policy on the U.S. military when the two most important aspects are so strongly against it. Again, as I mentioned before, the repeal of DADT was strictly political and has nothing to do with the welfare of the military!

 

[ABikerSailor]

Reidlr wrote:

The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.

That's a common conspiracy theory with opponents of DADT, and equal civil rights, etc. You weren't part of that polling process, I highly doubt anyway, so you can keep floating that theory and the made up "discounted" numbers if yall want to make yourselves feel better. But again, NO STRAIGHT service member I know had a problem with me serving, NONE, IN ANY BRANCH. Sad thing is, you've very likely already served with my brethren, aint know it, got close with them, and upon founding out they happen to be gay, will dislike, even hate them......sad indeed.

Please do not pretend as if you know who I am or what I believe!

It is no conspiracy theory! It is in the text of the report. I am sure you can read and I highly encourage you to read the report. On multiple occasions it is noted that the thoughts of those against the repeal do not represent the majority; however it is noted that the majority of those surveyed did not want to see a repeal.

In particular the Army and Marine Combat arms are strongly against the repeal. These two sections form the heart and soul of the U.S. military. How can you force a change in policy on the U.S. military when the two most important aspects are so strongly against it. Again, as I mentioned before, the repeal of DADT was strictly political and has nothing to do with the welfare of the military!

Like I said ya stupid fucking jarhead.............wanna explain to the class how hard deployment is on a person when the homefront is going to hell?

Additionally, if a gay person has access to AMCROSS and ombudsman to contact their SO back home, they'll be more effective.

To say otherwise is stupid at best.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Reidlr wrote:

The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.

That's a common conspiracy theory with opponents of DADT, and equal civil rights, etc. You weren't part of that polling process, I highly doubt anyway, so you can keep floating that theory and the made up "discounted" numbers if yall want to make yourselves feel better. But again, NO STRAIGHT service member I know had a problem with me serving, NONE, IN ANY BRANCH. Sad thing is, you've very likely already served with my brethren, aint know it, got close with them, and upon founding out they happen to be gay, will dislike, even hate them......sad indeed.

Please do not pretend as if you know who I am or what I believe!

It is no conspiracy theory! It is in the text of the report. I am sure you can read and I highly encourage you to read the report. On multiple occasions it is noted that the thoughts of those against the repeal do not represent the majority; however it is noted that the majority of those surveyed did not want to see a repeal.

In particular the Army and Marine Combat arms are strongly against the repeal. These two sections form the heart and soul of the U.S. military. How can you force a change in policy on the U.S. military when the two most important aspects are so strongly against it. Again, as I mentioned before, the repeal of DADT was strictly political and has nothing to do with the welfare of the military!

I'm sure you can also read the document (these are taken directly from the survey):


Question 68 & 69. If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed and you are working with a Service
member in your immediate unit who has said he or she is gay or lesbian, how would it affect…

Question 68c . How Service members in your immediate unit trust each other?
33.1% answered negatively, or very negatively

Question 68d. How much Service members in your immediate unit really care about each other?
30.0% answered negatively, or very negatively

Question 70 & 71. If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed and you are working with a Service
member in your immediate unit who has said he or she is gay or lesbian, how, if at all, would it affect your immediate unit’s effectiveness at completing its mission…

When a crisis or negative event happens that affects your immediate unit
29.4% said negatively, or very negatively

In an intense combat situation
30.6% said negatively or very negatively

(*note there were two sets of questions-one with troops who had combat deployment experience since 9/11-the other without. The results below ABOVE for #70-71 are the ones WITH combat deployment experience*)



Question 73. If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed and you are working with a Service member in your immediate unit who has said he or she is gay or lesbian, how, if at all, would your level of morale be affected?
27.9% said negatively or very negatively




If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed and you are working with a Service member in your
immediate unit who has said he or she is gay or lesbian, how would it affect…

Question 71c . Your immediate unit ’s effectiveness at completng its mission in an intense
combat situation
26% negatively or very negatively (who currently serve with a gay unit member)

Question 75b. Your immediate unit’s readiness
18/3% negatively or very negatively (who currently serve with a gay unit member)


Question 29. Assume Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed and your spouse is deployed. Would
the presence of a partner of a gay or lesbian Service member affect how often you attend
deployment-support activities?
-Yes , I would attend deployment-support activities less often: 13.4%



Those results reflect that overall that the troops who view the effects or repealing don't ask don't tell as having negative consequences in the vast minority across the board.



source:

http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_gatesdadt/DADTReport_FINAL_20101130(secure-hires).pdf

(which I got from a thread you started for the record)

 

[SFC Ollie]

"solicited the views of nearly 400,000 active duty and reserve component Service members
with an extensive and professionally-developed survey, which prompted 115,052
responses—one of the largest surveys in the history of the U.S. military;"

What's wrong with that picture? If you are honest you will admit it.

They asked for 400,000 answers and got 115.052 so roughly 35 % cared enough to respond and 65% either didn't care enough or had no opinion.

It's BullShit and it's no good for ya.

 

[eagleseven]

They asked for 400,000 answers and got 115.052 so roughly 35 % cared enough to respond and 65% either didn't care enough or had no opinion.

If 65% didn't care enough about DADT to respond to the study...that about says it all. They won't care now that DADT is history.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

"solicited the views of nearly 400,000 active duty and reserve component Service members
with an extensive and professionally-developed survey, which prompted 115,052
responses—one of the largest surveys in the history of the U.S. military;"

What's wrong with that picture? If you are honest you will admit it.

They asked for 400,000 answers and got 115.052 so roughly 35 % cared enough to respond and 65% either didn't care enough or had no opinion.

It's BullShit and it's no good for ya.

Well first of all, 35% response rate isn't bad for surveys. Most people don't feel like filling them out, for one reason or another. After taking multiple statistics classes, and social statistics classes in university, I can tell you based on those classes 35% is enough of return to judge the sample (and thus the population). It woudn't be if they only have a few hundred responses, but breaking 100,000 is more than enough.

Also think about this flaw in your statement: 65 of people didn't respond. Those who had strong views on the issue (either for or against), would be much more likely to respond. I think we can agree with that. Therefore 65% of the respondents more or less is indifferent whether DADT gets repealed or not.

 

[007]

Reidlr wrote:

The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.

That's a common conspiracy theory with opponents of DADT, and equal civil rights, etc. You weren't part of that polling process, I highly doubt anyway, so you can keep floating that theory and the made up "discounted" numbers if yall want to make yourselves feel better. But again, NO STRAIGHT service member I know had a problem with me serving, NONE, IN ANY BRANCH. Sad thing is, you've very likely already served with my brethren, aint know it, got close with them, and upon founding out they happen to be gay, will dislike, even hate them......sad indeed.

I took basic training in October of 1979, and it took our flight about three days to identify this skinny little black dude as a homo. No one would shower with him and few talked to him. He was never hurt physically but, he didn't hear what people were saying behind his back. There was a couple guys that wanted to throw his ass out the second story window of the barracks onto the cement below, but they were talked out of it.

Now I don't know for sure but I imagine with the indoctrination that the young get in school these days, they don't give a rats ass about homos eying up their junk in the shower. I would, and I don't think there will ever be a day when "everybody," as you're trying to bull shit here, won't care. Most heterosexual males are disgusted with homosexuality, whether they care to admit it or not. Most just answer with the usual politically correct crap just so they don't have to hear the liberals and homos supporters explode with their tirades of BIGOT and HOMOPHOBE.

But if homos want to join up and fight, might as well let them. Just so long as recruiting doesn't take a turn for the worse, the military needs the man power. We're spread so thin right now it's pathetic. Some type of privacy for showers would solve a lot of problems too, even a simple curtain.