DADT dead, finally, equal rights, and we catch up with the rest of the world!

"solicited the views of nearly 400,000 active duty and reserve component Service members
with an extensive and professionally-developed survey, which prompted 115,052
responses—one of the largest surveys in the history of the U.S. military;"

What's wrong with that picture? If you are honest you will admit it.

They asked for 400,000 answers and got 115.052 so roughly 35 % cared enough to respond and 65% either didn't care enough or had no opinion.

It's BullShit and it's no good for ya.

Well first of all, 35% response rate isn't bad for surveys. Most people don't feel like filling them out, for one reason or another. After taking multiple statistics classes, and social statistics classes in university, I can tell you based on those classes 35% is enough of return to judge the sample (and thus the population). It woudn't be if they only have a few hundred responses, but breaking 100,000 is more than enough.

Also think about this flaw in your statement: 65 of people didn't respond. Those who had strong views on the issue (either for or against), would be much more likely to respond. I think we can agree with that. Therefore 65% of the respondents more or less is indifferent whether DADT gets repealed or not.

That's what I said, which means that the majority were not in favor of the repeal as certain people want us to believe. The majority simply expressed no opinion.
 
I have a question, since when does the Military poll its people to find out if their ok with a certain rule or regulation being changed? I was in the Military for 7 years and I don't remember being polled to see if I agreed with the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, usually the Military makes rules and you follow in line, or else.
 
I have a question, since when does the Military poll its people to find out if their ok with a certain rule or regulation being changed? I was in the Military for 7 years and I don't remember being polled to see if I agreed with the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, usually the Military makes rules and you follow in line, or else.

From the Pentagons report:

At the outset, it is important to note the environment in which we conducted our
work: the Nation’s military has been at war on several fronts for over 9 years. Much is being
demanded from the force. The men and women in uniform who risk their lives to defend
our Nation are, along with their families, stretched and stressed, and have faced years of
multiple and lengthy deployments to Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. Some question the
wisdom of taking on the emotional and difficult issue of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell on top of all
else. For these and other reasons, the Secretary directed that we “thoroughly, objectively
and methodically examine all aspects of this question,” and include, most importantly, the
views of our men and women in uniform.
http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_gatesdadt/DADTReport_FINAL_20101130(secure-hires).pdf

I agree with how important this would be to know from the troops how they think and feel about this. Unfortunately I also believe that the Pentagon failed to actually find out the whole truth. But as always I could be wrong. In this case I truly hope I am.
 
I have a question, since when does the Military poll its people to find out if their ok with a certain rule or regulation being changed? I was in the Military for 7 years and I don't remember being polled to see if I agreed with the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, usually the Military makes rules and you follow in line, or else.

You have missunderstood, this is not a military decision. This was a politically charged move. It has nothing to do with military matters and all to do with politics!
 
I have a question, since when does the Military poll its people to find out if their ok with a certain rule or regulation being changed? I was in the Military for 7 years and I don't remember being polled to see if I agreed with the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, usually the Military makes rules and you follow in line, or else.

You have missunderstood, this is not a military decision. This was a politically charged move. It has nothing to do with military matters and all to do with politics!

I understand that but when has the Military ever asked the opinion of its members before? usually the Military just changes things and says tough shit, did the Military ask anyones opinion before they brought in DADT in the first place?
 
That report is flawed yea, but I know you'll get similar results no matter how many times you repoll.

I have yet to meet a service member who is bigoted enough to dislike me, or the many gay service members I know, which includes Marines, Army, and Navy. None of the straight service members I know do, I know em in all branches, they're fine with it.

They know there's more important things to worry bout than tryna shit on your fellow countryman's patriotism for something he can't help, and likely won't effect you.

The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.

Just making a point that there was no real research put into this. The repeal of DADT is strictly political and has nothing to do with what is needed or not needed in the U.S. military.

People like you just bought into the political and media spin and assumed that the report generated favorable opinions in the military regarding repeal of DADT. In all actuality, repeal is not favored in the military, but then people do not want to hear that. It is done now, so I suppose it really does not matter what is wanted or not wanted.

Hey stupid.........as a RETIRED US Navy veteran who served honorably from 1982 until 2002, lemmie tell ya some stuff.......

Apparently, you've been on a deployment. You as a Marine should know that when shit goes south on the homefront, your mind isn't on the situation at hand, be it wife, girlfriend or whatever. However........you have the luxury of being able to contact home via the Red Cross or the ombudsman.

Gays don't have that. Why? Because if it ever comes to light they will be kicked out of the military.

Will repeal of DADT make our military stronger? Yeah, because then they won't have to worry about continuing their service.

And for the bigoted assholes such as yourself who will get out because they don't want to serve with gays? Great! Leave my military and become a civvie. We don't need bigots in my military.

Besides.........the manning levels will be MORE than offset by the many gays who would jump at the chance to serve.

Finally, a decent post from you.
 
Time to end biggoted segregation based on someone's sex as well!!!!! If a gay man can fantasize about my junk while showering why not a woman as well!!!!!!!!!!!!! :woohoo:

:dance: :dance:

[/sarcasm]

...don't care.
 
Reidlr wrote:
The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.
That's a common conspiracy theory with opponents of DADT, and equal civil rights, etc. You weren't part of that polling process, I highly doubt anyway, so you can keep floating that theory and the made up "discounted" numbers if yall want to make yourselves feel better. But again, NO STRAIGHT service member I know had a problem with me serving, NONE, IN ANY BRANCH. Sad thing is, you've very likely already served with my brethren, aint know it, got close with them, and upon founding out they happen to be gay, will dislike, even hate them......sad indeed.

I took basic training in October of 1979, and it took our flight about three days to identify this skinny little black dude as a homo. No one would shower with him and few talked to him. He was never hurt physically but, he didn't hear what people were saying behind his back. There was a couple guys that wanted to throw his ass out the second story window of the barracks onto the cement below, but they were talked out of it.

Now I don't know for sure but I imagine with the indoctrination that the young get in school these days, they don't give a rats ass about homos eying up their junk in the shower. I would, and I don't think there will ever be a day when "everybody," as you're trying to bull shit here, won't care. Most heterosexual males are disgusted with homosexuality, whether they care to admit it or not. Most just answer with the usual politically correct crap just so they don't have to hear the liberals and homos supporters explode with their tirades of BIGOT and HOMOPHOBE.

But if homos want to join up and fight, might as well let them. Just so long as recruiting doesn't take a turn for the worse, the military needs the man power. We're spread so thin right now it's pathetic. Some type of privacy for showers would solve a lot of problems too, even a simple curtain.

NO BS, looks like you know a bad crop of "breeders" Yea, we can have cute lil names for yall too. All my straight friends have no problem with me, likely never will. Alot's changed since 1979 man, like is said, grow with us.
 
"solicited the views of nearly 400,000 active duty and reserve component Service members
with an extensive and professionally-developed survey, which prompted 115,052
responses—one of the largest surveys in the history of the U.S. military;"

What's wrong with that picture? If you are honest you will admit it.

They asked for 400,000 answers and got 115.052 so roughly 35 % cared enough to respond and 65% either didn't care enough or had no opinion.

It's BullShit and it's no good for ya.

Well first of all, 35% response rate isn't bad for surveys. Most people don't feel like filling them out, for one reason or another. After taking multiple statistics classes, and social statistics classes in university, I can tell you based on those classes 35% is enough of return to judge the sample (and thus the population). It woudn't be if they only have a few hundred responses, but breaking 100,000 is more than enough.

Also think about this flaw in your statement: 65 of people didn't respond. Those who had strong views on the issue (either for or against), would be much more likely to respond. I think we can agree with that. Therefore 65% of the respondents more or less is indifferent whether DADT gets repealed or not.

That's what I said, which means that the majority were not in favor of the repeal as certain people want us to believe. The majority simply expressed no opinion.

I agree with this, I see your point. However one cannot say the majority were in favor of keeping DADT either.

As far as those who did respond-most of them didn't see negative effects of repealing DADT, that much we do know.
 
All I can say is that the Army is going to lose a great NCO in five years, the day I'm forced to teach soldiers something thats not military related and potentially ainst their beliefs is the day I'll call it quits, I'll be more than happy to retire as an E-8 with 20 years and I'll turn down any selection for SGM if it happens and if my ID card didn't say INDEF on it I would ask to leave the military.
 
Like the noble, battle hardened nation of Israel, who has allowed my brethren so serve openly for a while now, AND THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH IT, OR FROM IT.

I know a couple dudes still in, this will effect and benefit them. I know they're relieved to know that they no longer have to live a lie and can be honest, real, and proud if they so choose.

IF WE'RE WILLING TO DIE FOR THIS GREAT NATION, WE DESERVE @ LEAST THAT MUCH.

To the likely closeted, sad, bass ackwards, bigots like SwordOfDamocles, Sunni Man, SaggyinNola I say: This is equal civil rights, FINALLY. Our patriotism aint stained by ignorant bigotry like yours is. The VAST MAJORITY of the military is fine with this and knows that they been serving alongside us this whole time WITH NO PROBLEMS ANYWAY.

Don't like progress? LEAVE.


This isn't progress you dumbass and our military was never behind any military in this world, we were always better and far more ahead and advanced that every military in this world. The world's most powerful military didn't need DADT repealed to be the best, that shows what you really thought about us.
 
Well first of all, 35% response rate isn't bad for surveys. Most people don't feel like filling them out, for one reason or another. After taking multiple statistics classes, and social statistics classes in university, I can tell you based on those classes 35% is enough of return to judge the sample (and thus the population). It woudn't be if they only have a few hundred responses, but breaking 100,000 is more than enough.

Also think about this flaw in your statement: 65 of people didn't respond. Those who had strong views on the issue (either for or against), would be much more likely to respond. I think we can agree with that. Therefore 65% of the respondents more or less is indifferent whether DADT gets repealed or not.

That's what I said, which means that the majority were not in favor of the repeal as certain people want us to believe. The majority simply expressed no opinion.

I agree with this, I see your point. However one cannot say the majority were in favor of keeping DADT either.

As far as those who did respond-most of them didn't see negative effects of repealing DADT, that much we do know.


Only 28% responded to that survey, which means that the opinions and thoughts of the other 72% were not taken into consideration and its being spun to make it look like those 28% are representative of everyone and stop speaking for those that didn't respond because you don't fucking know, I wear the uniform and I can attest to the fact that the majority of those whom I have conversed with are against it, most didn't respond because they didn't want to get caught up in the politics of something so useless as DADT.
 
That report is flawed yea, but I know you'll get similar results no matter how many times you repoll.

I have yet to meet a service member who is bigoted enough to dislike me, or the many gay service members I know, which includes Marines, Army, and Navy. None of the straight service members I know do, I know em in all branches, they're fine with it.

They know there's more important things to worry bout than tryna shit on your fellow countryman's patriotism for something he can't help, and likely won't effect you.

The report is not flawed, just ignored! When the POTUS, SECDEF, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wants repeal, then of course they will get the results that they want. The problem was that the report generated results that they did not want. Therefore, every time the working group received negative information, they merely disregarded it and stated that it didn't represent the majority of the military. Of the 116,000 surveyed, 71% of them have a problem with it, but of course this was disregarded.

Just making a point that there was no real research put into this. The repeal of DADT is strictly political and has nothing to do with what is needed or not needed in the U.S. military.

People like you just bought into the political and media spin and assumed that the report generated favorable opinions in the military regarding repeal of DADT. In all actuality, repeal is not favored in the military, but then people do not want to hear that. It is done now, so I suppose it really does not matter what is wanted or not wanted.

Hey stupid.........as a RETIRED US Navy veteran who served honorably from 1982 until 2002, lemmie tell ya some stuff.......

Apparently, you've been on a deployment. You as a Marine should know that when shit goes south on the homefront, your mind isn't on the situation at hand, be it wife, girlfriend or whatever. However........you have the luxury of being able to contact home via the Red Cross or the ombudsman.

Gays don't have that. Why? Because if it ever comes to light they will be kicked out of the military.

Will repeal of DADT make our military stronger? Yeah, because then they won't have to worry about continuing their service.

And for the bigoted assholes such as yourself who will get out because they don't want to serve with gays? Great! Leave my military and become a civvie. We don't need bigots in my military.

Besides.........the manning levels will be MORE than offset by the many gays who would jump at the chance to serve.


The Gaybiker would support something that most troops don't support and the gays are not gpoing to offset any manning levels, there aren't that many gays in America to begin with. Dumbass squid.
 
I have a question, since when does the Military poll its people to find out if their ok with a certain rule or regulation being changed? I was in the Military for 7 years and I don't remember being polled to see if I agreed with the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, usually the Military makes rules and you follow in line, or else.


The military doesn't and from my experience they only initiate such polls after already having their minds made on whatever action thats going to be taken whether its favorable to the troops or not. The chain of command is supposed to be a two-way avenue but anyone thats served knows the real deal.
 
I have a question, since when does the Military poll its people to find out if their ok with a certain rule or regulation being changed? I was in the Military for 7 years and I don't remember being polled to see if I agreed with the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, usually the Military makes rules and you follow in line, or else.


The military doesn't and from my experience they only initiate such polls after already having their minds made on whatever action thats going to be taken whether its favorable to the troops or not. The chain of command is supposed to be a two-way avenue but anyone thats served knows the real deal.

Thats what I was thinking, when I was in I really don't remember any higher ups asking my opinion on any policy.
 
I have a question, since when does the Military poll its people to find out if their ok with a certain rule or regulation being changed? I was in the Military for 7 years and I don't remember being polled to see if I agreed with the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, usually the Military makes rules and you follow in line, or else.


The military doesn't and from my experience they only initiate such polls after already having their minds made on whatever action thats going to be taken whether its favorable to the troops or not. The chain of command is supposed to be a two-way avenue but anyone thats served knows the real deal.

Thats what I was thinking, when I was in I really don't remember any higher ups asking my opinion on any policy.

The DoD already had their minds made up that they wanted to repeal DADT, if 100% of the service members would have said they were against DADT, the repeal would have happened anyway with some lame excuse and justification and its like that for every decision that comes down the pipes.
 
The military doesn't and from my experience they only initiate such polls after already having their minds made on whatever action thats going to be taken whether its favorable to the troops or not. The chain of command is supposed to be a two-way avenue but anyone thats served knows the real deal.

Thats what I was thinking, when I was in I really don't remember any higher ups asking my opinion on any policy.

The DoD already had their minds made up that they wanted to repeal DADT, if 100% of the service members would have said they were against DADT, the repeal would have happened anyway with some lame excuse and justification and its like that for every decision that comes down the pipes.

Thats what I figured, this repeal would have happened even if 100% of the Military said they were against it. Most Military members back in the day rejected integration and the Military did it anyways.
 
Thats what I was thinking, when I was in I really don't remember any higher ups asking my opinion on any policy.

The DoD already had their minds made up that they wanted to repeal DADT, if 100% of the service members would have said they were against DADT, the repeal would have happened anyway with some lame excuse and justification and its like that for every decision that comes down the pipes.

Thats what I figured, this repeal would have happened even if 100% of the Military said they were against it. Most Military members back in the day rejected integration and the Military did it anyways.

Dude integration and DADT two separate things, blacks were allowed to openly serve because we obviously can't covertly serve and say we're something else. Gays wanted the right to say they're openly gay for what? Openly saying you're gay is not the same as integrating.
 

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