Cyprus, and What it Means for US.

PoliticalChic

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1. "In the Roaring Twenties, the New York stock market, especially, was a bubble, fed by the fraudulent notion that permanent growth was assured,...As soon as the market turned, it came down hard. Forced sales of the pledged stocks accelerated and broadened the plunge.

a. Eventually, governments inflated the currencies by flooding the private sector with borrowed money.

b. ... increased demand... starts to push prices and wages higher, but in currency of deteriorating value. This practice has stalked and haunted the world ever since.





2. This is essentially the trade-off that our civilization has made: Destitution will be spared all but a few people, but savings, investment, and the quest for security will be an endless treadmill on which he who earns and tries to accumulate wealth is in a constant race with the deterioration in the buying power of the currency in which he measures his wealth.

3. Bubbles occur in almost every area and are corrected eventually. The great housing bubble of 2008 was created in part by the desire of the Clinton administration to promote family home ownership (and befriend the building-trades unions and the residential real-estate developers).

a. ...almost the entire banking sectors of the United States, the United Kingdom, and much of Western Europe and Australia was saved from bankruptcy only by government intervention.





4. The core of the conundrum is that capitalism is the only economic system that works, because it is the only one that is aligned to the almost universal human ambition for more. It is a myth that people really want to share (other than to a limited degree for charitable reasons; among close-knit groups such as families and some associations; or in over-arching emergencies such as serious wars and national disasters).

5. But it is in the nature of capitalism to incite people to foolhardy risks, causing economic calamity with broad collateral damage. And then only government can address the resulting crisis. This is not because governments have any aptitude to do so — in general, politicians and government officials are even less competent than lions of finance and captains of industry. But the government has the power to legislate, enforce laws and control the money supply.

6. The federal government debt of the United States has increased by 70% in four years compared to what it was after the first 232 years of independence up to the installation of the current administration in 2009.





7. [Which brings us to] Cyprus, a haven for financial fugitives and scoundrels, has gone to the front of the line: a collapsed banking system that the government proposed to salvage by taxing bank deposits (an inordinate number of which belong to crooks from other countries). That is the deposits would vanish in taxes rather than to pay for the bank’s bad loans. The people revolted this week, and the government deserted its own measure, making the negative parliamentary vote on it unsuspensefully unanimous.

8. The Cypriot finance ministry adopted Plan B and went to Moscow to offer the banking system and natural resources of Cyprus to Putin’s gangster state...


9. This charade has gone on so long, and with such affected solemnity, that few seem to realize what volcano most countries are sitting on. Even relatively strong countries such as Germany have reached for the nearer cookie jars, like securitizing debt with pensions. Arizona has sold its state capitol, and is a tenant there. As a distinguished and witty economist (Herbert Stein) famously said, “If something can’t go on, it won’t.”
From the National Post
Under the Volcano: How the Charade of Cyprus Obscures Bigger Danger to Economy - The New York Sun



Debt and deficit meaningless?
Austerity a terrible idea?
Re-electing a failed administration?
Your savings and IRA are safe?
The Constitution will protect you?


In very, very short:
Just what do you think is going to happen here?
 
Looks like Cyprus has agreed to a deal where they will in effect confiscate a certain % of bank accounts that exceed 100,000 euros, to get enough money to receive a bailout from the ECB. The exact % is not known yet, could be as high as 40% according to the chairman of the committee that brokered the deal or had a hand in it. This is I believe the same guy who said this action serves as a good template for other distressed economies. So, those accounts over 100k of euros will be frozen and a certain amount will be appropriated. Wow.

A lot of this money is from Russia, and a lot of that is from the Russian mob. So they ain't real happy, wonder what the backlash from them will be. Nonetheless, this is a terrible precedent to set, used to be you could trust the banks to give you back your money if you loaned it to them. I'm thinking banks in Portugal, Spain, Italy, and perhaps other places are going to see transfers out of the accounts of large depositors, fearing similar actions down the road. This can't be a good thing.
 
Just what do you think is going to happen here?

It is likely that a run on the banks will ensue. Should be entertaining to read about that in the coming months.
 
Looks like Cyprus has agreed to a deal where they will in effect confiscate a certain % of bank accounts that exceed 100,000 euros, to get enough money to receive a bailout from the ECB. The exact % is not known yet, could be as high as 40% according to the chairman of the committee that brokered the deal or had a hand in it. This is I believe the same guy who said this action serves as a good template for other distressed economies. So, those accounts over 100k of euros will be frozen and a certain amount will be appropriated. Wow.

A lot of this money is from Russia, and a lot of that is from the Russian mob. So they ain't real happy, wonder what the backlash from them will be. Nonetheless, this is a terrible precedent to set, used to be you could trust the banks to give you back your money if you loaned it to them. I'm thinking banks in Portugal, Spain, Italy, and perhaps other places are going to see transfers out of the accounts of large depositors, fearing similar actions down the road. This can't be a good thing.



Have you seen the rumor that Spain is considering the same peculation?
 
Haven't heard or seen that report yet, but it's an obvious concern for anybody who has a lot of money in a bank in one of those distressed economies. If I were a rich person in Spain, Italy, Portugal, or even France, I'd be quietly pulling my money out and moving it offshore to the Caymans or somewhere. The lefties don't seem to understand that there are economic consequences to screwing over the rich guys, one of which is that you end up with a lot less investment capital.
 
I don't believe that the stock market in the 20's was a genuine bubble. You had 2 transformative technologies: electricity and mass production. There might have been some slight froth, but I no longer believe that the 20's stock market was a speculative bubble that HAD to burst. The Federal Reserve strangled the economy nearly to death, that's what brought the market down
 
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I don't believe that the stock market in the 20's was a genuine bubble. You had 2 transformative technologies: electricity and mass production. There might have been some slight froth, but I no longer believe that the 20's stock market was a speculative bubble that HAD to burst. The Federal Reserve strangled the economy nearly to death, that's what brought the market down

Uh, Frank? WTF? Did you intend this post to go somewhere else? You move it or I will.
 
Looks like Cyprus has agreed to a deal where they will in effect confiscate a certain % of bank accounts that exceed 100,000 euros, to get enough money to receive a bailout from the ECB. The exact % is not known yet, could be as high as 40% according to the chairman of the committee that brokered the deal or had a hand in it. This is I believe the same guy who said this action serves as a good template for other distressed economies. So, those accounts over 100k of euros will be frozen and a certain amount will be appropriated. Wow.

A lot of this money is from Russia, and a lot of that is from the Russian mob. So they ain't real happy, wonder what the backlash from them will be. Nonetheless, this is a terrible precedent to set, used to be you could trust the banks to give you back your money if you loaned it to them. I'm thinking banks in Portugal, Spain, Italy, and perhaps other places are going to see transfers out of the accounts of large depositors, fearing similar actions down the road. This can't be a good thing.



Have you seen the rumor that Spain is considering the same peculation?

Now that its happened there why can't it happen here? If you didn't build that, if they want to socialisze health care and move to single payer, why wouldn't they tax your savings??

Its only prudent now to put your money in different places with different kinds of insurance protection.
 
I don't believe that the stock market in the 20's was a genuine bubble. You had 2 transformative technologies: electricity and mass production. There might have been some slight froth, but I no longer believe that the 20's stock market was a speculative bubble that HAD to burst. The Federal Reserve strangled the economy nearly to death, that's what brought the market down

Uh, Frank? WTF? Did you intend this post to go somewhere else? You move it or I will.

1. "In the Roaring Twenties, the New York stock market, especially, was a bubble, fed by the fraudulent notion that permanent growth was assured,...As soon as the market turned, it came down hard. Forced sales of the pledged stocks accelerated and broadened the plunge.

That's from the OP
 
I don't believe that the stock market in the 20's was a genuine bubble. You had 2 transformative technologies: electricity and mass production. There might have been some slight froth, but I no longer believe that the 20's stock market was a speculative bubble that HAD to burst. The Federal Reserve strangled the economy nearly to death, that's what brought the market down

Uh, Frank? WTF? Did you intend this post to go somewhere else? You move it or I will.

1. "In the Roaring Twenties, the New York stock market, especially, was a bubble, fed by the fraudulent notion that permanent growth was assured,...As soon as the market turned, it came down hard. Forced sales of the pledged stocks accelerated and broadened the plunge.

That's from the OP

Okay, the OP did lead off with that, my bad. The thread is really about the Cyprus situation, which your post doesn't touch on. But let's let it run and see where the conversation goes. Apologies.
 
Haven't heard or seen that report yet, but it's an obvious concern for anybody who has a lot of money in a bank in one of those distressed economies. If I were a rich person in Spain, Italy, Portugal, or even France, I'd be quietly pulling my money out and moving it offshore to the Caymans or somewhere. The lefties don't seem to understand that there are economic consequences to screwing over the rich guys, one of which is that you end up with a lot less investment capital.

"...lefties don't seem to understand that there are economic consequences to screwing over the rich guys,..."


I believe they understand....and they believe the 'consequences redound to their benefit.


1. The Communist Manifesto was issued in 1848.

a. In 1861, in the US, we saw the birth of progressive income taxation. While not directly based on Marx...watch how this falls out....

b. The tax was moderately progressive, 3% on all income over $800. This meant that most workers didn’t have to pay any tax. Revenue Act of 1861 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


2. The following year, due to a greater need, Congress increased both the rates and the progressivity. The exemption was lowered to $600 @ 3%, and a new 5% on income over $10,000. This, then was the first “progressive,” not flat tax. The law also imposed a duty on paymasters to deduct and withhold the income tax, and to send the withheld tax to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. Revenue Act of 1862 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a. After the war exemptions were increased, and rates lowered, and in 1872, the tax was abolished.

b. But, having had a taste of taking and using free money, politicians passed more than 60 bills designed to reinstate the income tax over the next 20 years.
David G. Davies, “United States Taxes and Tax Policy,” p. 22.



3. Socialist, Populist, and Progressive movements paralleled this move, and this desire based on “taxing the rich.” In 1894, the Democrat-controlled Congress passed a bill that included a flat income tax…but part included taxes on income from real estate and personal property, and this triggered a court challenge as a direct tax infracting the Constitution’s apportionment rule,…

a. Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Company, 157 U.S. 429 (1895), aff'd on reh'g, 158 U.S. 601 (1895), with a ruling of 5–4, was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the unapportioned income taxes on interest, dividends and rents imposed by the Income Tax Act of 1894 were, in effect, direct taxes, and were unconstitutional because they violated the provision that direct taxes be apportioned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock_v._Farmers'_Loan_&_Trust_Co.

b. Interesting decision, since the same principles had been upheld vis-à-vis the 1861 Revenue Act…. Springer v. United States, 102 U.S. 586 (1881),[1] was a case in which the United States Supreme Court upheld the Federal income tax imposed under the Revenue Act of 1864. Springer v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



4. The Progressives were horrified! They had been focused on forcing the “money class” to pay “in proportion to their ability to pay…’ which, essentially was the first half of “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” From each according to his ability, to each according to his need - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a. The Progressives launched a campaign designed to reverse this decision, and that culminated with the ratification of the 16th Amendment, in 1913.



It would be our mistake to believe either the Progressive/communist movement isn't worldwide....

...of that the confiscation of 40% of savings in Cyprus isn't a harbinger.
 
What's going to happen when the rich guys leave? Liberal progressives think they can just screw 'em over with no consequences, but I'm thinking those that can will sell out, pack up, and move out. So who's left? Raise taxes and confiscate money from the less rich, and then the lesser rich after that. How long before the whole economy goes down the tubes? No growth, no innovation, you end up with a 3rd world banana republic. But BY GOD we'll all be equal!
 
Nothing is going to happen to the US economy as a result of Cyprus, per se.

The idea of freezing large accounts and seizing assets isn't new. It's going to happen.

The surprise to the chicken little crowd is always the same: the threat becomes a tempest in a teapot.

Nominal "victims" are going to take it quietly. Most of it is hot/dubious money and the rest is collateral damage. So what?
 
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What Cyprus means for us is that our banks shouldn't take a mountain of deposits from Russian oligarchs, tax evaders and money launderers, then invest them in sky-high real estate and Greek bonds.
 
The surprise to the chicken little crowd is always the same: its a tempest in a teapot.

smart people don't predict the future, although its not surprising the that a whack job liberal nihilist woudl try!. At worst its another Sarajevo and at best it just adds to the uncertainty that is already prevalent
 
The surprise to the chicken little crowd is always the same: its a tempest in a teapot.

smart people don't predict the future, although its not surprising the that a whack job liberal nihilist woudl try!. At worst its another Sarajevo and at best it just adds to the uncertainty that is already prevalent

This explains why your cubicle farm is by the elevator shaft three floors down from the VP of housekeeping - and with less natural light than can be seen from inside the safe where you keep your gold coin.

Nutball halfwits like you laughed when I sold apartments in VA and MD in 2005 and 2006 after that ratty little cocksucker who led the Bush League was re elected by the scum of the earth (These are the people whose snowblind partisan votes ultimately put Obama in the White House to Lord it over white trash). One suspects the buyers laughed.

Who's laughing now, Edmund?

To recap: Nothing that happens in Cyprus in the next several years is going to affect the US economy directly - unless the anti-Christ is born there in that period. It could give your current Lord and Master, President Barack Hussein Obama, some ideas, though.

Next.
 
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explains why your cubicle farm is by the elevator shaft three floors down

no idea what this nut job is ranting about

One believes that about you, Edmund.


Blake probably described the "Edmund Belamounted Syndrome" best in his poem "Auguries of Innocence"
Every Night & every Morn
Some to Misery are Born.

Every Morn & every Night
Some are Born to sweet Delight,
Some are born to Endless Night.


We are led to Believe a Lie

When we see not Thro' the Eye
 
explains why your cubicle farm is by the elevator shaft three floors down

no idea what this nut job is ranting about

One believes that about you, Edmund.


Blake probably described the "Edmund Belamounted Syndrome" best in his poem "Auguries of Innocence"
Every Night & every Morn
Some to Misery are Born.

Every Morn & every Night
Some are Born to sweet Delight,
Some are born to Endless Night.


We are led to Believe a Lie

When we see not Thro' the Eye

Can you say if you're liberal or conservative and why?
 
Are there fools who believe that what happens in Cyprus will have no effect elsewhere?

Oh...yes....some dolt just wrote that in the thread....

Chew on this:

"Jeroen Dijsselbloem Says Cyprus Is A 'Template' For EU Bailouts, Sends Markets Tumbling"
European markets tumbled on Monday after the leading eurozone finance minister suggested the Cyprus deal that saw bank accounts of individual depositors raided to save the island's banks could be repeated across the continent.
Jeroen Dijsselbloem Says Cyprus Is A 'Template' For EU Bailouts, Sends Markets Tumbling



template: Something that serves as a model for others to copy: "a template for change".


Beware.
 

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