Curiosity Question for the Gun Nuts

[candycorn]

Last night, one of the nutjobs proposed a scenario by which you'd be forced to own weapons or pay a tax. Save your indignation shit-brains.

Like in Switzerland? Sounds like a plan....As long as we lock up the criminals and crazies, it will work.

Hey if you want to live under the swiss gun laws...I'm all for that.

Move to Switzerland, then. Oh wait...They don't take in immigrants.

No, you're wanting the same Swiss gun laws as we have here. Anything is better than what we have so bring it on beeotch.

You realize that in Switzerland they are mandated by law to keep a fully automatic rifle in their homes..right…..

I am against mandates like that…it is a Right, not a mandate.

You realize that the mandate is only for some people and to carry in public, you have to have permission. Hey, anything that stops the 8,000 deaths you're so happy about.

 

[koshergrl]

...and no, requiring an I.D. to vote is simply to make sure you are who you say you are….

Not requiring an ID or that you prove you are who you are and are eligible to vote...ONCE - That's how Liberals have kept the Illegals, Felons, Poll monitors who moronically admit to national TV reporters they voted 5 times, the DEAD, and PETS voting all these years.

I was required to show I'd the first time I voted, 32 years ago in Eugene. Nobody whined about it.

 

[koshergrl]

What's more...your id had to be current and have your correct address. I still voted for Reagan.

 

[BULLDOG]

Cop there....does nothing...white guy....

Oh….so you want assault vehicles banned….now I understand the point of your thread……..

No, given your explanation for MB's being gunned down, I would like for you to explain how the guy parks his truck facing the doors, has a conversation with the officer where he presumably told him not to do it, drove the truck into the lobby, backed up, gunned the engine again, then emerged from the truck, did not stop and render aid and began to walk back to the officers potentially armed and obviously a criminal.

Did he attack the officers? Did he endanger people in the area? Do you want them to shoot him? They seem to get into trouble when they shoot people these days….

Yes he endangered the people in the area. You didn't watch the video?

You want me to try to prove your claim? You are nuts, aren't you?

No, I'm sick with a chest cold so don't feel like wading through mountains of virtual paperwork. The Federal Law is buyer and seller must be residents of the same state. Do you really think that the ATF doesn't have a law that mandates ID verification with the requirement already specified? Further do you think they aren't itching to incarcerate people who violate that law? I mean c'mon. Use your head.

And, for the record, I and every gun person I know, is fully in favor of a free, instant background check that has no gun registration requirement. We would love to have a 1-800 number that ANYONE could call at any time and do an instant background check on the buyer of a weapon.

Sorry you feel bad. I had a dose of that a few weeks back. Doesn't remove your obligation to back up your claims though. If so many are in favor of that (90% of the country is), why are Republican politicians so vehemently opposed to universal background checks?

Besides requiring registration of all guns, background checks do not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns…and then there is this….

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense

However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction. The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system


Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

background checks and registration are not the same thing.

Background checks that are universal require gun registration…registration has always been the first step in banning and confiscating weapons…it happened in France, Germany, Britain and Australia…we know the history and the technique...

In order to do universal background checks you have to know who originally possessed the gun before the background checks went into law…other wise people can simply get around it, again, by saying Oh Yeah…I always owned this gun…….

All background checks are easily avoided by criminals, they steal the guns, or the get someone with a clean record to buy the gun for them…therefore background checks are pointless if you want to stop criminals from getting guns or mass shooters from getting guns…what they do…they give you control over law abiding gun owners and gives you an opportunity to catch them in a felony for failing to paperwork properly……

I

No, background checks don't require registration any more than licensed dealers background checks require registration. Still acting like you actually believe someone is going to go door to door taking guns. What an idiot.

 

[jc456]

Cop there....does nothing...white guy....

Oh….so you want assault vehicles banned….now I understand the point of your thread……..

No, given your explanation for MB's being gunned down, I would like for you to explain how the guy parks his truck facing the doors, has a conversation with the officer where he presumably told him not to do it, drove the truck into the lobby, backed up, gunned the engine again, then emerged from the truck, did not stop and render aid and began to walk back to the officers potentially armed and obviously a criminal.

Did he attack the officers? Did he endanger people in the area? Do you want them to shoot him? They seem to get into trouble when they shoot people these days….

Did he attack the officer. After committing willful and intentional destruction over $1,000 to a building and endangering the lives of two clerks, he got out of of his truck and walked toward the officer on the outside of the building.

I want him to be treated the same as they would a black 18 year old who was seen on video endangering the life of a clerk.

I would hope it would be an order to get down on the ground and eliminate any possible threat but that only seems to happen to black perps who are suspected of a crime; not to white folks who committed one 5 feet away from the officers....

What was the difference other than skin color?

he followed the officers orders, because he knew immediately he was in a mess and liked his life what pathetic piece was left.

 

[2aguy]

Cop there....does nothing...white guy....

Oh….so you want assault vehicles banned….now I understand the point of your thread……..

No, given your explanation for MB's being gunned down, I would like for you to explain how the guy parks his truck facing the doors, has a conversation with the officer where he presumably told him not to do it, drove the truck into the lobby, backed up, gunned the engine again, then emerged from the truck, did not stop and render aid and began to walk back to the officers potentially armed and obviously a criminal.

Did he attack the officers? Did he endanger people in the area? Do you want them to shoot him? They seem to get into trouble when they shoot people these days….

Did he attack the officer. After committing willful and intentional destruction over $1,000 to a building and endangering the lives of two clerks, he got out of of his truck and walked toward the officer on the outside of the building.

I want him to be treated the same as they would a black 18 year old who was seen on video endangering the life of a clerk.

I would hope it would be an order to get down on the ground and eliminate any possible threat but that only seems to happen to black perps who are suspected of a crime; not to white folks who committed one 5 feet away from the officers....

What was the difference other than skin color?

Do you know how many arrests are made in this country every single day….and you pick two of them to compare….completely different cops involved and in one the thug actually tried to take the officers gun and ended up firing the weapon during the struggle, and then rushed the officer…….

Try harder….

 

[2aguy]

Cop there....does nothing...white guy....

Oh….so you want assault vehicles banned….now I understand the point of your thread……..

No, given your explanation for MB's being gunned down, I would like for you to explain how the guy parks his truck facing the doors, has a conversation with the officer where he presumably told him not to do it, drove the truck into the lobby, backed up, gunned the engine again, then emerged from the truck, did not stop and render aid and began to walk back to the officers potentially armed and obviously a criminal.

Did he attack the officers? Did he endanger people in the area? Do you want them to shoot him? They seem to get into trouble when they shoot people these days….

Yes he endangered the people in the area. You didn't watch the video?

No, I'm sick with a chest cold so don't feel like wading through mountains of virtual paperwork. The Federal Law is buyer and seller must be residents of the same state. Do you really think that the ATF doesn't have a law that mandates ID verification with the requirement already specified? Further do you think they aren't itching to incarcerate people who violate that law? I mean c'mon. Use your head.

And, for the record, I and every gun person I know, is fully in favor of a free, instant background check that has no gun registration requirement. We would love to have a 1-800 number that ANYONE could call at any time and do an instant background check on the buyer of a weapon.

Sorry you feel bad. I had a dose of that a few weeks back. Doesn't remove your obligation to back up your claims though. If so many are in favor of that (90% of the country is), why are Republican politicians so vehemently opposed to universal background checks?

Besides requiring registration of all guns, background checks do not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns…and then there is this….

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense

However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction. The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system


Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

background checks and registration are not the same thing.

Background checks that are universal require gun registration…registration has always been the first step in banning and confiscating weapons…it happened in France, Germany, Britain and Australia…we know the history and the technique...

In order to do universal background checks you have to know who originally possessed the gun before the background checks went into law…other wise people can simply get around it, again, by saying Oh Yeah…I always owned this gun…….

All background checks are easily avoided by criminals, they steal the guns, or the get someone with a clean record to buy the gun for them…therefore background checks are pointless if you want to stop criminals from getting guns or mass shooters from getting guns…what they do…they give you control over law abiding gun owners and gives you an opportunity to catch them in a felony for failing to paperwork properly……

I

No, background checks don't require registration any more than licensed dealers background checks require registration. Still acting like you actually believe someone is going to go door to door taking guns. What an idiot.

No…you are wrong. We already have federally mandated background checks for all gun purchases at gun stores and gun shows….that isn't enough for the gun grabbers. They want to mandate universal background checks for all transactions of guns….private sales as well as lending guns to relatives and friends and using guns in actual shooting classes….

So….in order to make universal background checks useful for private sales….you need to know who owns what guns, so when you find someone with a gun, you can know if they actually own that gun…and if they went through a private sale, if that sale had a background check attacked to it, otherwise they can just say, I have always owned this gun……

It defeats the entire purpose of mandating universal background checks for private sales if you don't register all guns….that is why they are pushing universal background checks.

As has been demonstrated by history, in Britain, France, Germany, and Australia….and New York and California….you have to register all guns before you ban them.

 

[2aguy]

Like in Switzerland? Sounds like a plan....As long as we lock up the criminals and crazies, it will work.

Hey if you want to live under the swiss gun laws...I'm all for that.

Move to Switzerland, then. Oh wait...They don't take in immigrants.

No, you're wanting the same Swiss gun laws as we have here. Anything is better than what we have so bring it on beeotch.

You realize that in Switzerland they are mandated by law to keep a fully automatic rifle in their homes..right…..

I am against mandates like that…it is a Right, not a mandate.

You realize that the mandate is only for some people and to carry in public, you have to have permission. Hey, anything that stops the 8,000 deaths you're so happy about.

No…..every male is a member of the militia….every home has a select fire, fully automatic rifle……...

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, background checks don't require registration any more than licensed dealers background checks require registration.

Universal background checks do, else there's no way for the state to prove that someone broke the law when selling a gun.

 

[candycorn]

Hey if you want to live under the swiss gun laws...I'm all for that.

Move to Switzerland, then. Oh wait...They don't take in immigrants.

No, you're wanting the same Swiss gun laws as we have here. Anything is better than what we have so bring it on beeotch.

You realize that in Switzerland they are mandated by law to keep a fully automatic rifle in their homes..right…..

I am against mandates like that…it is a Right, not a mandate.

You realize that the mandate is only for some people and to carry in public, you have to have permission. Hey, anything that stops the 8,000 deaths you're so happy about.

No…..every male is a member of the militia….every home has a select fire, fully automatic rifle……...

Again, anything is better than this bloodbath

 

[candycorn]

Cop there....does nothing...white guy....

Oh….so you want assault vehicles banned….now I understand the point of your thread……..

No, given your explanation for MB's being gunned down, I would like for you to explain how the guy parks his truck facing the doors, has a conversation with the officer where he presumably told him not to do it, drove the truck into the lobby, backed up, gunned the engine again, then emerged from the truck, did not stop and render aid and began to walk back to the officers potentially armed and obviously a criminal.

Did he attack the officers? Did he endanger people in the area? Do you want them to shoot him? They seem to get into trouble when they shoot people these days….

Did he attack the officer. After committing willful and intentional destruction over $1,000 to a building and endangering the lives of two clerks, he got out of of his truck and walked toward the officer on the outside of the building.

I want him to be treated the same as they would a black 18 year old who was seen on video endangering the life of a clerk.

I would hope it would be an order to get down on the ground and eliminate any possible threat but that only seems to happen to black perps who are suspected of a crime; not to white folks who committed one 5 feet away from the officers....

What was the difference other than skin color?

Do you know how many arrests are made in this country every single day….and you pick two of them to compare….completely different cops involved and in one the thug actually tried to take the officers gun and ended up firing the weapon during the struggle, and then rushed the officer…….

Try harder….

One cop stands by and let's the white dude endanger people. And politely arrests him. One cop gets punched and kills the black guy who is no longer a threat.

Easy to see what the difference is.

Hard for you to admit I know

 

[2aguy]

Move to Switzerland, then. Oh wait...They don't take in immigrants.

No, you're wanting the same Swiss gun laws as we have here. Anything is better than what we have so bring it on beeotch.

You realize that in Switzerland they are mandated by law to keep a fully automatic rifle in their homes..right…..

I am against mandates like that…it is a Right, not a mandate.

You realize that the mandate is only for some people and to carry in public, you have to have permission. Hey, anything that stops the 8,000 deaths you're so happy about.

No…..every male is a member of the militia….every home has a select fire, fully automatic rifle……...

Again, anything is better than this bloodbath

What blood bath….of the 8,124 gun murders in the United States, the majority are criminals murdering other criminals in tiny, isolated areas in our inner cities, usually controlled by democrats…..

We have 74.2 million children and an accidental gun death rate for kids of 69 in 2013…..

We have over 320 million people with over 13 million people actually carrying guns every day, and an accidental death rate of 505 in 2013……

We have over 357 million guns in private hands…and only 8,124 gun murders, mostly by criminals against other criminals…

Our gun owners who are normal citizens don't have a problem with gun ownership……focus on helping the criminals with theirs….

 

[2aguy]

Oh….so you want assault vehicles banned….now I understand the point of your thread……..

No, given your explanation for MB's being gunned down, I would like for you to explain how the guy parks his truck facing the doors, has a conversation with the officer where he presumably told him not to do it, drove the truck into the lobby, backed up, gunned the engine again, then emerged from the truck, did not stop and render aid and began to walk back to the officers potentially armed and obviously a criminal.

Did he attack the officers? Did he endanger people in the area? Do you want them to shoot him? They seem to get into trouble when they shoot people these days….

Did he attack the officer. After committing willful and intentional destruction over $1,000 to a building and endangering the lives of two clerks, he got out of of his truck and walked toward the officer on the outside of the building.

I want him to be treated the same as they would a black 18 year old who was seen on video endangering the life of a clerk.

I would hope it would be an order to get down on the ground and eliminate any possible threat but that only seems to happen to black perps who are suspected of a crime; not to white folks who committed one 5 feet away from the officers....

What was the difference other than skin color?

Do you know how many arrests are made in this country every single day….and you pick two of them to compare….completely different cops involved and in one the thug actually tried to take the officers gun and ended up firing the weapon during the struggle, and then rushed the officer…….

Try harder….

One cop stands by and let's the white dude endanger people. And politely arrests him. One cop gets punched and kills the black guy who is no longer a threat.

Easy to see what the difference is.

Hard for you to admit I know

Nope……the thug struggled with the cop for his gun to the point it was fired…then he rushed the officer again after beating the officer in the face……the reality of the two situations show you are wrong.

 

[BULLDOG]

Cop there....does nothing...white guy....

Oh….so you want assault vehicles banned….now I understand the point of your thread……..

No, given your explanation for MB's being gunned down, I would like for you to explain how the guy parks his truck facing the doors, has a conversation with the officer where he presumably told him not to do it, drove the truck into the lobby, backed up, gunned the engine again, then emerged from the truck, did not stop and render aid and began to walk back to the officers potentially armed and obviously a criminal.

Did he attack the officers? Did he endanger people in the area? Do you want them to shoot him? They seem to get into trouble when they shoot people these days….

Yes he endangered the people in the area. You didn't watch the video?

Sorry you feel bad. I had a dose of that a few weeks back. Doesn't remove your obligation to back up your claims though. If so many are in favor of that (90% of the country is), why are Republican politicians so vehemently opposed to universal background checks?

Besides requiring registration of all guns, background checks do not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns…and then there is this….

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense

However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction. The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system


Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

background checks and registration are not the same thing.

Background checks that are universal require gun registration…registration has always been the first step in banning and confiscating weapons…it happened in France, Germany, Britain and Australia…we know the history and the technique...

In order to do universal background checks you have to know who originally possessed the gun before the background checks went into law…other wise people can simply get around it, again, by saying Oh Yeah…I always owned this gun…….

All background checks are easily avoided by criminals, they steal the guns, or the get someone with a clean record to buy the gun for them…therefore background checks are pointless if you want to stop criminals from getting guns or mass shooters from getting guns…what they do…they give you control over law abiding gun owners and gives you an opportunity to catch them in a felony for failing to paperwork properly……

I

No, background checks don't require registration any more than licensed dealers background checks require registration. Still acting like you actually believe someone is going to go door to door taking guns. What an idiot.

No…you are wrong. We already have federally mandated background checks for all gun purchases at gun stores and gun shows….that isn't enough for the gun grabbers. They want to mandate universal background checks for all transactions of guns….private sales as well as lending guns to relatives and friends and using guns in actual shooting classes….

So….in order to make universal background checks useful for private sales….you need to know who owns what guns, so when you find someone with a gun, you can know if they actually own that gun…and if they went through a private sale, if that sale had a background check attacked to it, otherwise they can just say, I have always owned this gun……

It defeats the entire purpose of mandating universal background checks for private sales if you don't register all guns….that is why they are pushing universal background checks.

As has been demonstrated by history, in Britain, France, Germany, and Australia….and New York and California….you have to register all guns before you ban them.

You're wrong. Which federal law mandates background checks at gun shows for the independent seller who happens to have a booth? That law doesn't exist. The federal background checks for gun dealers that we do have are not gun registration. They are only background checks. You are imagining something that doesn't exist. Universal registration is not the issue, if it ever is, then you can fight that,

 

[M14 Shooter]

Move to Switzerland, then. Oh wait...They don't take in immigrants.

No, you're wanting the same Swiss gun laws as we have here. Anything is better than what we have so bring it on beeotch.

You realize that in Switzerland they are mandated by law to keep a fully automatic rifle in their homes..right…..

I am against mandates like that…it is a Right, not a mandate.

You realize that the mandate is only for some people and to carry in public, you have to have permission. Hey, anything that stops the 8,000 deaths you're so happy about.

No…..every male is a member of the militia….every home has a select fire, fully automatic rifle……...

Again, anything is better than this bloodbath

Hyperbole much?

 

[BULLDOG]

No, background checks don't require registration any more than licensed dealers background checks require registration.

Universal background checks do, else there's no way for the state to prove that someone broke the law when selling a gun.

Are guns federally required to be registered when purchasing from a gun dealer?

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, background checks don't require registration any more than licensed dealers background checks require registration.

Universal background checks do, else there's no way for the state to prove that someone broke the law when selling a gun.

Are guns federally required to be registered when purchasing from a gun dealer?

Irrelevant to my point.

 

[2aguy]

Oh….so you want assault vehicles banned….now I understand the point of your thread……..

No, given your explanation for MB's being gunned down, I would like for you to explain how the guy parks his truck facing the doors, has a conversation with the officer where he presumably told him not to do it, drove the truck into the lobby, backed up, gunned the engine again, then emerged from the truck, did not stop and render aid and began to walk back to the officers potentially armed and obviously a criminal.

Did he attack the officers? Did he endanger people in the area? Do you want them to shoot him? They seem to get into trouble when they shoot people these days….

Yes he endangered the people in the area. You didn't watch the video?

Besides requiring registration of all guns, background checks do not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns…and then there is this….

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense

However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction. The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system


Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

background checks and registration are not the same thing.

Background checks that are universal require gun registration…registration has always been the first step in banning and confiscating weapons…it happened in France, Germany, Britain and Australia…we know the history and the technique...

In order to do universal background checks you have to know who originally possessed the gun before the background checks went into law…other wise people can simply get around it, again, by saying Oh Yeah…I always owned this gun…….

All background checks are easily avoided by criminals, they steal the guns, or the get someone with a clean record to buy the gun for them…therefore background checks are pointless if you want to stop criminals from getting guns or mass shooters from getting guns…what they do…they give you control over law abiding gun owners and gives you an opportunity to catch them in a felony for failing to paperwork properly……

I

No, background checks don't require registration any more than licensed dealers background checks require registration. Still acting like you actually believe someone is going to go door to door taking guns. What an idiot.

No…you are wrong. We already have federally mandated background checks for all gun purchases at gun stores and gun shows….that isn't enough for the gun grabbers. They want to mandate universal background checks for all transactions of guns….private sales as well as lending guns to relatives and friends and using guns in actual shooting classes….

So….in order to make universal background checks useful for private sales….you need to know who owns what guns, so when you find someone with a gun, you can know if they actually own that gun…and if they went through a private sale, if that sale had a background check attacked to it, otherwise they can just say, I have always owned this gun……

It defeats the entire purpose of mandating universal background checks for private sales if you don't register all guns….that is why they are pushing universal background checks.

As has been demonstrated by history, in Britain, France, Germany, and Australia….and New York and California….you have to register all guns before you ban them.

You're wrong. Which federal law mandates background checks at gun shows for the independent seller who happens to have a booth? That law doesn't exist. The federal background checks for gun dealers that we do have are not gun registration. They are only background checks. You are imagining something that doesn't exist. Universal registration is not the issue, if it ever is, then you can fight that,

You don't understand…..any federally licensed gun dealer at a gun show has to do a background check right now….today…..an individual who sets up a booth is not a licensed gun dealer….

The gun grabbers want to force individual sellers……that means if I sell my gun to my brother, then I would have to go and get a background check on my brother before I sell him a .22 bolt action rifle………and in order to regulate that sale with a background check, they will need to know that 1) I originally owned the gun and 2) I sold the gun….

Without registration my brother can simply say he always owned the gun after I sell it to him……

Fighting pointless…useless, universal background checks is fighting universal registration….

 

[2aguy]

No, background checks don't require registration any more than licensed dealers background checks require registration.

Universal background checks do, else there's no way for the state to prove that someone broke the law when selling a gun.

Are guns federally required to be registered when purchasing from a gun dealer?

No…..if they mandate Universal Background checks then they will have to pass a new law for universal registration of guns…otherwise there is no way to enforce Universal background checks on private individuals who sell a gun to their relative or friend.

 

[BULLDOG]

No, background checks don't require registration any more than licensed dealers background checks require registration.

Universal background checks do, else there's no way for the state to prove that someone broke the law when selling a gun.

Are guns federally required to be registered when purchasing from a gun dealer?

Irrelevant to my point.

Bullshit. If universal registration is required for one, why is it not required for the other? Answer or admit your wrong.