Creator Of Infamous "Hope" Poster Lashes Out At Obama

[pinqy]

Of course U6 does not measure the same thing as the U3. If it did, it would be the U3, right?

Then how can you say the U6 is the "real"measure of unemployment? You cannot compare the different measures because they're not measuring the same thing.

Here's the U6 definition: U6 unemployment rate - Dictionary The Opportune Time "The percentage of the labor force that does not have a job, or is part-time employed and would like full-time employment. Unlike U3, the U6 unemployment rate expands the definition of the labor force to include "discouraged workers," or people without jobs who have given up looking for work; "marginally attached workers," or people without jobs who would like to work but have not sought employment recently; and part-time workers who would like to be employed full-time."

Not quite. "Total unemployed, plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force" It doesn't change or expand the definition of labor force at all. And it's a little misleading not to mention that discouraged are a subset of marginally attached. Your definition makes it look like they're seperate.

My point is that the U6 is not a better measurement of what the U3 measures. So to say the U6 is the real measure is ridiculous.

Why do you find it fascinating that people so discouraged with trying to find a suitable job have given up? Or that people who would like a full time job have to settle for a part time job? I find this sad.

I find it sad that that's what you got out of my statement that "Not only is he adding in people who have jobs as "really unemployed" he's adding in people WHO DON'T WANT TO WORK as "really unemployed. His "additional unemployed workers is 7.9 million. But in November 2014 there were only 6.6 million who wanted to work and were not already classified as unemployed.
" Let me restate...your source was counting as unemployed not just people who have jobs, but people who do not want to work.

Just using the U3, and in fact a diluted U3 that removes discouraged, non-job seeking people from the labor force, does not fully describe the state of employment in the USA.

It's not supposed to. It's supposed to give a quick picture of how easy or hard it is to get a job that month. It does that very well. The U6 does not do that very well.

The U6 is a much more telling metric. And here's what it tells us, if you are willing to listen: Current U-6 Unemployment Rate "For May 2015 the official U-6 unemployment rate remained steady at 10.4% from April to May.

But has gone down from its height of 17% and trends alongside the U-3. Oh, and the U-6 is not officially called an unemployment rate because it's not an unemployment rate.

But the independently produced Gallup equivalent called the “Underemployment Rate” rose from 14.8% to 14.9%."

Yeah, that's a crappy measure. It's unemployed (defined the same way as BLS, but age 18 and older) plus people working part time who say they want to work full time. This allows non-economic reasons for working part time (someone working part time because kids are still in school and they want to be home for the kids) and it doesn't ask about availability to work full time. It's way too subjective and not narrowly defined enough.

 

[hipeter924]

 

[Wildman]

Unemployment is down to 5.4% , my Grampa always said, "figgers don't lie, but liars do figger"

Dow is up to 18,000, which is the result of hyper inflation

We are out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and his buddies, ISIS has over run the area.

We have universal health care and my insurance carrier can't cancel my coverage for a pre-existing condition.
WHOOOPIE ! and it costs you how much ? it sure as hell is NOT free !

 

[hipeter924]

Unemployment is down to 5.4% , my Grampa always said, "figgers don't lie, but liars do figger"

US statistical methodology was changed a while back, so that only a few hours working a week counts as 'having a job'. Unemployment is down, but by no means has America got back the full-time jobs it lost in the recession.

Dow is up to 18,000,

which is the result of hyper inflation.

Could be a result of many things including hyper-inflation, but the market like in 2007-2009 is fueled by bad loans, debt, speculation of commodities, and currency manipulation. Things will fail again, as nothing was put in place that could possibly stop another recession. Can thank both the Democrats and Republicans for that.

We are out of Iraq and Afghanistan,

and his buddies, ISIS has over run the area.

ISIS is the the result of decades of failed US foreign policy. First funding and supporting Al Qaeda (and Osama Bin Laden), then invading Iraq and disbanding its military and security forces, then supporting the overthrow of Qaddafi in Libya and other leaders in the 'Arab Spring', and finally funding and supporting 'rebels' in Syria - much of the training and weapons of which only boosted ISIL.

We have universal health care and my insurance carrier can't cancel my coverage for a pre-existing condition.

WHOOOPIE ! and it costs you how much ? it sure as hell is NOT free !

Ah. But it isn't UHC, Obama said his ACA was 'better than Universal Healthcare/Single Payer':

Let Obama debate himself.

 

[Truth2Know]

Of course U6 does not measure the same thing as the U3. If it did, it would be the U3, right?

Then how can you say the U6 is the "real"measure of unemployment? You cannot compare the different measures because they're not measuring the same thing.

Here's the U6 definition: U6 unemployment rate - Dictionary The Opportune Time "The percentage of the labor force that does not have a job, or is part-time employed and would like full-time employment. Unlike U3, the U6 unemployment rate expands the definition of the labor force to include "discouraged workers," or people without jobs who have given up looking for work; "marginally attached workers," or people without jobs who would like to work but have not sought employment recently; and part-time workers who would like to be employed full-time."

Not quite. "Total unemployed, plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force" It doesn't change or expand the definition of labor force at all. And it's a little misleading not to mention that discouraged are a subset of marginally attached. Your definition makes it look like they're seperate.

My point is that the U6 is not a better measurement of what the U3 measures. So to say the U6 is the real measure is ridiculous.

Why do you find it fascinating that people so discouraged with trying to find a suitable job have given up? Or that people who would like a full time job have to settle for a part time job? I find this sad.

I find it sad that that's what you got out of my statement that "Not only is he adding in people who have jobs as "really unemployed" he's adding in people WHO DON'T WANT TO WORK as "really unemployed. His "additional unemployed workers is 7.9 million. But in November 2014 there were only 6.6 million who wanted to work and were not already classified as unemployed.
" Let me restate...your source was counting as unemployed not just people who have jobs, but people who do not want to work.

Just using the U3, and in fact a diluted U3 that removes discouraged, non-job seeking people from the labor force, does not fully describe the state of employment in the USA.

It's not supposed to. It's supposed to give a quick picture of how easy or hard it is to get a job that month. It does that very well. The U6 does not do that very well.

The U6 is a much more telling metric. And here's what it tells us, if you are willing to listen: Current U-6 Unemployment Rate "For May 2015 the official U-6 unemployment rate remained steady at 10.4% from April to May.

But has gone down from its height of 17% and trends alongside the U-3. Oh, and the U-6 is not officially called an unemployment rate because it's not an unemployment rate.

But the independently produced Gallup equivalent called the “Underemployment Rate” rose from 14.8% to 14.9%."

Yeah, that's a crappy measure. It's unemployed (defined the same way as BLS, but age 18 and older) plus people working part time who say they want to work full time. This allows non-economic reasons for working part time (someone working part time because kids are still in school and they want to be home for the kids) and it doesn't ask about availability to work full time. It's way too subjective and not narrowly defined enough.

In addition to employment status, the U6 measures quality of jobs and how people value them. To say that a skilled machinist working part time as a grocery bagger because that is the only job available is "employed", so check the box, the job market is doing great, obviously does not tell the whole story.

Similarly, if people have quit actively seeking employment because they are so discouraged by not being able to find a good paying job in their area of training, excluding them as the U3 does because "they don't want to work" paints an incomplete picture of their employment status.

You are correct in saying that the U3 and U6 don't measure the same thing. Continue to use the U3 if you like. It will always be lower than the U6 so this may bring you some sense of comfort. Only use the U6 if you want a truer measure of how people are really faring in this economy.

 

[ClosedCaption]

OH NOES! THIS MEANS SOMETHING!!

 

[pinqy]

Of course U6 does not measure the same thing as the U3. If it did, it would be the U3, right?

Then how can you say the U6 is the "real"measure of unemployment? You cannot compare the different measures because they're not measuring the same thing.

Here's the U6 definition: U6 unemployment rate - Dictionary The Opportune Time "The percentage of the labor force that does not have a job, or is part-time employed and would like full-time employment. Unlike U3, the U6 unemployment rate expands the definition of the labor force to include "discouraged workers," or people without jobs who have given up looking for work; "marginally attached workers," or people without jobs who would like to work but have not sought employment recently; and part-time workers who would like to be employed full-time."

Not quite. "Total unemployed, plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force" It doesn't change or expand the definition of labor force at all. And it's a little misleading not to mention that discouraged are a subset of marginally attached. Your definition makes it look like they're seperate.

My point is that the U6 is not a better measurement of what the U3 measures. So to say the U6 is the real measure is ridiculous.

Why do you find it fascinating that people so discouraged with trying to find a suitable job have given up? Or that people who would like a full time job have to settle for a part time job? I find this sad.

I find it sad that that's what you got out of my statement that "Not only is he adding in people who have jobs as "really unemployed" he's adding in people WHO DON'T WANT TO WORK as "really unemployed. His "additional unemployed workers is 7.9 million. But in November 2014 there were only 6.6 million who wanted to work and were not already classified as unemployed.
" Let me restate...your source was counting as unemployed not just people who have jobs, but people who do not want to work.

Just using the U3, and in fact a diluted U3 that removes discouraged, non-job seeking people from the labor force, does not fully describe the state of employment in the USA.

It's not supposed to. It's supposed to give a quick picture of how easy or hard it is to get a job that month. It does that very well. The U6 does not do that very well.

The U6 is a much more telling metric. And here's what it tells us, if you are willing to listen: Current U-6 Unemployment Rate "For May 2015 the official U-6 unemployment rate remained steady at 10.4% from April to May.

But has gone down from its height of 17% and trends alongside the U-3. Oh, and the U-6 is not officially called an unemployment rate because it's not an unemployment rate.

But the independently produced Gallup equivalent called the “Underemployment Rate” rose from 14.8% to 14.9%."

Yeah, that's a crappy measure. It's unemployed (defined the same way as BLS, but age 18 and older) plus people working part time who say they want to work full time. This allows non-economic reasons for working part time (someone working part time because kids are still in school and they want to be home for the kids) and it doesn't ask about availability to work full time. It's way too subjective and not narrowly defined enough.

In addition to employment status, the U6 measures quality of jobs and how people value them. To say that a skilled machinist working part time as a grocery bagger because that is the only job available is "employed", so check the box, the job market is doing great, obviously does not tell the whole story.

How on earth do you think the U-6 measures quality????? There is no way of knowing from any BLS statistics quality vs qualification.

Similarly, if people have quit actively seeking employment because they are so discouraged by not being able to find a good paying job in their area of training, excluding them as the U3 does because "they don't want to work" paints an incomplete picture of their employment status.

Why? First, they're only classified as don't want to work if they don't want to work.

But the point is that including people not available for work because they're not trying to work distorts the Labor market picture.

You are correct in saying that the U3 and U6 don't measure the same thing. Continue to use the U3 if you like. It will always be lower than the U6 so this may bring you some sense of comfort. Only use the U6 if you want a truer measure of how people are really faring in this economy.

I use all, 6 measures, depending on what aspect I'm interested in.