Cramer on Trump’s Tariffs: “China is So Ready for the US it’s Embarrassing

[Reasonable]

If tariffs are our presidents idea of getting even ,why have our markets that were doing well collapsed? He's begging for a trade war and NOBODY wins a trade war

Trump is begging for a trade war, when the enemy is throwing everything they have and the kitchen sink at us?

Okay...

The USA cannot win a trade war with China.
This country is scared Trump will bring this country to its knees rather than admit his mistake.
This is what happens when you elect an insecure unbalanced sociopath as president.

And why can't we win one.............

Give me your reasons with evidence to back it up.

Did you see how they are screwing us over for 15 years............

Did you see that they banned beef sales for 14 years.....

Did you see that they doubled the price of our chicken sales there.........

Did you see the subsidizing of products by China to put our manufacturers under.....

I have provided that proof...............well.........

Herbert Hoover also thought tariffs were a wonderful idea. What he didn’t know it helped cause the Great Depression. Since we have a prez that doesn’t read or know anything about history “ those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.”

 

[Reasonable]

TRUMPTARD LOGIC 101:

UNEMPLOYEMNT AT HISTORIC LOWS!....WE NEED A TRADE WAR TO GET JOBS!

That’s economics 101.

 

[beagle9]

So if tariffs don’t work, then why is China doing it?

China loses in any trade war, they are far more dependent on our willingness to buy their crap.

Not only that, but we can direct our industries to sell within, and to open new markets abroad, and we will be just fine. China like you say has become dependent on us, and if they get mad then let them seek new markets in which they can play their games on (good luck with that one). No one is as dumb or greedy as we have been in the past in which sold us out. We could actually turn our industry within, and serve every state in our vast nation, and would probably come out with the very same results we have been getting with this over seas trade. No fear, and it's time we stand up again in this world.

 

[Bush92]

China needs us more than we need them. Fuck that loud mouthed idiot cocksucker on CNBC.

 

[AntonToo]

TRUMPTARD LOGIC 101:

UNEMPLOYEMNT AT HISTORIC LOWS!....WE NEED A TRADE WAR TO GET JOBS!

That’s economics 101.

? no it isn't. Protectionism makes no sense at full employment, it just runs up the prices.

 

[eagle1462010]

If tariffs are our presidents idea of getting even ,why have our markets that were doing well collapsed? He's begging for a trade war and NOBODY wins a trade war

Trump is begging for a trade war, when the enemy is throwing everything they have and the kitchen sink at us?

Okay...

The USA cannot win a trade war with China.
This country is scared Trump will bring this country to its knees rather than admit his mistake.
This is what happens when you elect an insecure unbalanced sociopath as president.

And why can't we win one.............

Give me your reasons with evidence to back it up.

Did you see how they are screwing us over for 15 years............

Did you see that they banned beef sales for 14 years.....

Did you see that they doubled the price of our chicken sales there.........

Did you see the subsidizing of products by China to put our manufacturers under.....

I have provided that proof...............well.........

Herbert Hoover also thought tariffs were a wonderful idea. What he didn’t know it helped cause the Great Depression. Since we have a prez that doesn’t read or know anything about history “ those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.”

Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act - Wikipedia

The consensus view among economists and economic historians is that the passage of the Smoot–Hawley Tariff exacerbated the Great Depression,[16] although there is disagreement as to how much. In the popular view, the Smoot–Hawley Tariff was a leading cause of the depression.[17][18] However, many economists hold the opinion that the tariff act did not greatly worsen the great depression. According to Paul Krugman, "Where protectionism really mattered was in preventing a recovery in trade when production recovered." He cites a report by Barry Eichengreen and Douglas Irwin: Figure 1 in that report shows trade and production dropping together from 1929 to 1932, but production increasing faster than trade from 1932 to 1937. The authors argue that adherence to the gold standard forced many countries to resort to tariffs, when instead they should have devalued their currencies.[19]

Milton Friedman also held the opinion that the Smoot–Hawley tariff of 1930 did not cause the Great Depression, instead he blamed the lack of sufficient action on the part of the Federal Reserve. Douglas A. Irwin wrote: "most economists, both liberal and conservative, doubt that Smoot–Hawley played much of a role in the subsequent contraction."[20]

Peter Temin, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, explained that a tariff is an expansionary policy, like a devaluation as it diverts demand from foreign to home producers. He noted that exports were 7 percent of GNP in 1929, they fell by 1.5 percent of 1929 GNP in the next two years and the fall was offset by the increase in domestic demand from tariff. He concluded that contrary the popular argument, contractionary effect of the tariff was small.[21]

William Bernstein wrote "most economic historians now believe that only a minuscule part of that huge loss of both world GDP and the United States' GDP can be ascribed to the tariff wars "because trade was only nine percent of global output, not enough to account for the seventeen percent drop in GDP following the Crash. He thinks the damage done could not possibly have exceeded 2 percent of world GDP and tariff "didn't even significantly deepen the Great Depression." (A Splendid Exchange: How Trade Shaped the World)

Nobel laureate Maurice Allais maintained that tariff was rather helpful in the face of deregulation of competition in the global labor market and excessively loose credit prior to the Crash which, according to him, caused the crisis in financial and banking sectors. He noted higher trade barriers were partly a means to protect domestic demand from deflation and external disturbances. He observes domestic production in the major industrialized countries fell faster than international trade contracted; if contraction of foreign trade had been the cause of the Depression, he argues, the opposite should have occurred. So, the decline in trade between 1929 and 1933 was a consequence of the Depression, not a cause. Most of the trade contraction took place between January 1930 and July 1932, before the introduction of the majority of protectionist measures, excepting limited American measures applied in the summer of 1930. It was the collapse of international liquidity that caused of the contraction of trade.[22]


Not everyone agrees with you

 

[eagle1462010]

EU sets import duties on Chinese corrosion-resistant steel

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union has set import duties on Chinese corrosion-resistant steel to counter what it says are unfairly low prices, the latest in a series of measures against Chinese products and steel in particular.

The duties will range from 17.2 to 27.9 percent, very similar to the tariffs already set on a provisional basis in August, the EU official journal said on Thursday.


The duties on the product, used in construction, for mechanical engineering, in welded pipes and tubes and domestic appliances, will apply for five years.


The provisional rates were from 17.2 to 28.5 percent.

The European Commission, which is responsible for trade policy in the European Union, opened an investigation in December 2016 following a complaint from EU steelmakers’ association Eurofer.

The EU now has 53 sets of measures in place on steel and iron products, 27 of them on products coming from China.

 

[eagle1462010]

The EU is doing the same thing with tariffs even higher........

 

[beagle9]

So if tariffs don’t work, then why is China doing it?

China loses in any trade war, they are far more dependent on our willingness to buy their crap.

All we need to do is make deals with other countries waiting for our business....we lose nothing but liberals can't understand that

Trump burned all those bridges.
Africa? He called them shithole countries and China is involved heavily there.
Asia? Belongs more and more to China.
Our neighbours ? Mexico is pissed off so is canada
By the time he ends his second year we will be isolated.

You underestimate what this nations economic ability actually is from within. Why do you think China or anyone else trades so heavily with us ? It ain't because we love Chinese products so much, but it's because they love us buying our own products being built there by Chinese cheap labor for American corporations who use that nation to screw over this nation on jobs in order to enrich themselves at the expense of the security of this nation.

China loves our money, and especially the Chinese military who has been using that money in order to build up it's military idustrial complex.

Our economy would sky rocket if we turned to within to create our own products again, and drive our own economic freedom once again.

Why do you think our industry leaders have been so into this world trade the way that they have been ? They could care less if this nation was to become a vast rural land with mansions and ranches tucked away in out of seen places, where Americans are used as cheap labor or rather foreigners are brought in to be used as cheap servants in a pipe dream the globalist are trying to make a reality out of ?

When will the sheeple learn that they have been screwed over and lied to in their lives, when ???

 

[Norman]

If tariffs are our presidents idea of getting even ,why have our markets that were doing well collapsed? He's begging for a trade war and NOBODY wins a trade war

Trump is begging for a trade war, when the enemy is throwing everything they have and the kitchen sink at us?

Okay...

The USA cannot win a trade war with China.
This country is scared Trump will bring this country to its knees rather than admit his mistake.
This is what happens when you elect an insecure unbalanced sociopath as president.

Of course we can't win if we don't even fight back.

Bring in the artillery and bury the white flag that you have been using as defense.

 

[edward37]

So if tariffs don’t work, then why is China doing it?

China loses in any trade war, they are far more dependent on our willingness to buy their crap.

Not only that, but we can direct our industries to sell within, and to open new markets abroad, and we will be just fine. China like you say has become dependent on us, and if they get mad then let them seek new markets in which they can play their games on (good luck with that one). No one is as dumb or greedy as we have been in the past in which sold us out. We could actually turn our industry within, and serve every state in our vast nation, and would probably come out with the very same results we have been getting with this over seas trade. No fear, and it's time we stand up again in this world.

what about our bonds?

 

[eagle1462010]

So if tariffs don’t work, then why is China doing it?

China loses in any trade war, they are far more dependent on our willingness to buy their crap.

Not only that, but we can direct our industries to sell within, and to open new markets abroad, and we will be just fine. China like you say has become dependent on us, and if they get mad then let them seek new markets in which they can play their games on (good luck with that one). No one is as dumb or greedy as we have been in the past in which sold us out. We could actually turn our industry within, and serve every state in our vast nation, and would probably come out with the very same results we have been getting with this over seas trade. No fear, and it's time we stand up again in this world.

what about our bonds?

If they dump the bonds they will hurt themselves as much as us.................it's a few trillion dollars...........

We would get a small bump in interest rates..........................and it would screw their own currency manipulation and lower their exports as well.

If they want to shoot themselves in the foot then........well yeah they'd could do it........but the damage is over rated.

 

[edward37]

So if tariffs don’t work, then why is China doing it?

China loses in any trade war, they are far more dependent on our willingness to buy their crap.

Not only that, but we can direct our industries to sell within, and to open new markets abroad, and we will be just fine. China like you say has become dependent on us, and if they get mad then let them seek new markets in which they can play their games on (good luck with that one). No one is as dumb or greedy as we have been in the past in which sold us out. We could actually turn our industry within, and serve every state in our vast nation, and would probably come out with the very same results we have been getting with this over seas trade. No fear, and it's time we stand up again in this world.

what about our bonds?

If they dump the bonds they will hurt themselves as much as us.................it's a few trillion dollars...........

We would get a small bump in interest rates..........................and it would screw their own currency manipulation and lower their exports as well.

If they want to shoot themselves in the foot then........well yeah they'd could do it........but the damage is over rated.

Over rated??
Treasurys: Bond markets move because US depends on China as buyer
https://www.cnbc.com/.../treasurys-bond-markets-move-because-us-depends-on-china...
Jan 11, 2018 - China just reminded the United States that Beijing is its banker. ... On Thursday, the Chinese regulator soothed market worries when it said it was already diversifying its foreign exchange reserves, and its Treasury holdings are "market driven." ... Broadly, central banks are moving away ...

 

[eagle1462010]

So if tariffs don’t work, then why is China doing it?

China loses in any trade war, they are far more dependent on our willingness to buy their crap.

Not only that, but we can direct our industries to sell within, and to open new markets abroad, and we will be just fine. China like you say has become dependent on us, and if they get mad then let them seek new markets in which they can play their games on (good luck with that one). No one is as dumb or greedy as we have been in the past in which sold us out. We could actually turn our industry within, and serve every state in our vast nation, and would probably come out with the very same results we have been getting with this over seas trade. No fear, and it's time we stand up again in this world.

what about our bonds?

If they dump the bonds they will hurt themselves as much as us.................it's a few trillion dollars...........

We would get a small bump in interest rates..........................and it would screw their own currency manipulation and lower their exports as well.

If they want to shoot themselves in the foot then........well yeah they'd could do it........but the damage is over rated.

Over rated??
Treasurys: Bond markets move because US depends on China as buyer
https://www.cnbc.com/.../treasurys-bond-markets-move-because-us-depends-on-china...
Jan 11, 2018 - China just reminded the United States that Beijing is its banker. ... On Thursday, the Chinese regulator soothed market worries when it said it was already diversifying its foreign exchange reserves, and its Treasury holdings are "market driven." ... Broadly, central banks are moving away ...

Author Examines Six Myths About U.S. Economy

Myth No. 1: China is bankrolling the U.S.

"Nearly all of our public debt is held by U.S. banks and by the American public. China holds around 10% of it and believe me they don't think they are doing us any favors by investing in Treasury bonds. Yet you read in the paper that you have to treat China with deference because they are such important holders of U.S. debt. How did China become the owner of so much U.S. debt? It's because Walmart bought a few hundred million dollars of things from China and had to pay them for it. So Walmart calls JP Morgan and puts those dollars in a China bank account run by JP Morgan in New York. That money then gets invested in Treasury bonds. The money didn't disappear and go to China. The money is still in the U.S. economy. Foreigners own about $23 trillion of American assets, but Americans own about $20 trillion of foreign assets. If foreigners buy U.S. Treasurys, that is fine for the U.S. financial system as a whole. Regardless of the size of our trade deficit, which is a separate debate, it is still a myth that Asian countries are bankrolling the U.S. and that we need China to lend us money to pay for our government's obligations. Countries that sell more goods and services to the U.S. than they buy from the U.S. end up with trade surpluses in dollars which must be held in dollar assets. These countries can only do three things with those dollars: buy U.S. goods, buy U.S. assets like government bonds, or exchange those dollars for another currency."

 

[GHook93]

This is what happens when you elect a president who doesn’t know a damn thing but thinks he does. All of this president’s advisers pleaded with him not to enact the tariffs. Dumbfuck listens to no one.


China's response to President Donald Trump's tariffs was so swift that it was actually quite embarrassing for the United States, according to CNBC's Jim Cramer.

Earlier Friday, China announced plans for reciprocal tariffs on 128 U.S. products, including pork, wine, fruit and steel. It came a day after Trump's announcement of tariffs on up to $60 billion in Chinese imports.

Chinese President Xi Jinping "had a list that was so ready of what they're blocking," Cramer said on "Squawk on the Street" Friday. "They are so ready for what we do, it's embarrassing."


"Do you think that [China] has not figured this stuff out," asked Cramer. "They've got a game plan."

Cramer on Trump's China tariffs: Beijing is so ready for the US 'it's embarrassing'

U.S.-China Trade Deficit Hits Record, Fueling Trade Fight

We have a $375 bil deficit with China! Both lose in a trade war. They will be the bigger losers


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[edward37]

So if tariffs don’t work, then why is China doing it?

China loses in any trade war, they are far more dependent on our willingness to buy their crap.

Not only that, but we can direct our industries to sell within, and to open new markets abroad, and we will be just fine. China like you say has become dependent on us, and if they get mad then let them seek new markets in which they can play their games on (good luck with that one). No one is as dumb or greedy as we have been in the past in which sold us out. We could actually turn our industry within, and serve every state in our vast nation, and would probably come out with the very same results we have been getting with this over seas trade. No fear, and it's time we stand up again in this world.

what about our bonds?

If they dump the bonds they will hurt themselves as much as us.................it's a few trillion dollars...........

We would get a small bump in interest rates..........................and it would screw their own currency manipulation and lower their exports as well.

If they want to shoot themselves in the foot then........well yeah they'd could do it........but the damage is over rated.

Over rated??
Treasurys: Bond markets move because US depends on China as buyer
https://www.cnbc.com/.../treasurys-bond-markets-move-because-us-depends-on-china...
Jan 11, 2018 - China just reminded the United States that Beijing is its banker. ... On Thursday, the Chinese regulator soothed market worries when it said it was already diversifying its foreign exchange reserves, and its Treasury holdings are "market driven." ... Broadly, central banks are moving away ...

Author Examines Six Myths About U.S. Economy

Myth No. 1: China is bankrolling the U.S.

"Nearly all of our public debt is held by U.S. banks and by the American public. China holds around 10% of it and believe me they don't think they are doing us any favors by investing in Treasury bonds. Yet you read in the paper that you have to treat China with deference because they are such important holders of U.S. debt. How did China become the owner of so much U.S. debt? It's because Walmart bought a few hundred million dollars of things from China and had to pay them for it. So Walmart calls JP Morgan and puts those dollars in a China bank account run by JP Morgan in New York. That money then gets invested in Treasury bonds. The money didn't disappear and go to China. The money is still in the U.S. economy. Foreigners own about $23 trillion of American assets, but Americans own about $20 trillion of foreign assets. If foreigners buy U.S. Treasurys, that is fine for the U.S. financial system as a whole. Regardless of the size of our trade deficit, which is a separate debate, it is still a myth that Asian countries are bankrolling the U.S. and that we need China to lend us money to pay for our government's obligations. Countries that sell more goods and services to the U.S. than they buy from the U.S. end up with trade surpluses in dollars which must be held in dollar assets. These countries can only do three things with those dollars: buy U.S. goods, buy U.S. assets like government bonds, or exchange those dollars for another currency."

Trump has no idea of whats at stake
One thing to understand about President Donald Trump’s proposed new tariffs on China is that they are, in the first instance, a tax on U.S. producers and consumers. The revenue they’ll raise won’t come from China, but from the pockets of Americans who’ll have to pay more for Chinese goods.



Imposing this tax requires a strong justification, or at least an intelligible rationale. The Trump administration offers neither. It’s true that the U.S. has legitimate trade grievances with China, but there are much better ways of resolving them.



The White House says it will impose tariffs on $50 billion (or maybe $60 billion) of China’s annual imports to the U.S. Not quite yet, though: Details will follow in 15 days, and there’ll be 30 days for comments before any tariffs take effect. At the same time, the Treasury has been given 60 days to come up with new restrictions on investment by Chinese firms in the U.S.





Maybe Trump hopes these threats will lead China to make trade concessions and he will not need to actually put these tariffs in place. Conceivably, it could work out that way: Premier Li Keqiang said this week China will open its economy further, do more to protect intellectual property, and restrain its efforts to get foreign investors to transfer technology. If China follows through, that might be enough for Trump to declare victory and move on to his next adventure.



The danger is that Trump actually believes his own bombastic rhetoric about winning a trade war -- that the time for talking is past, that China’s promises are worthless, and that the administration will keep raising taxes on U.S. producers and consumers until the trade deficit with China is eliminated. That would be a lunatic growth-killing plan even if China didn’t retaliate. If China did push back, and raised tariffs of its own against U.S. exports, the impact on both countries’ growth would be worse.

Even if it doesn’t come to that, the other great cost of Trump’s approach is the threat it poses to the rules-based system of liberal trade -- one designed and built over decades by none other than the U.S.

The president may be deluding himself that he can change China’s behavior merely by bullying. A far better plan would be to bind an increasingly powerful China into this system as a matter of mutual advantage. This is a multilateral effort, involving the European Union and Japan, and it would be made more difficult by the unilateral rule-bending (or -breaking) that the Trump administration is proposing. How wise is it, really, to tell China, “Do as you’re told: Might is right”?

does need to be addressed -- and the existing system provides ways to do so. Oddly enough, the Trump administration acknowledges as much; it announced this week that the U.S. would launch a new case at the World Trade Organization on China’s rules for licensing technology, and it has also relied on the expertise of CFIUS, the committee on foreign investment, to block deals on national-security grounds.

Starting a trade war, however, is another matter entirely. That’s a plan with a likelihood of high casualties for both sides. No one is arguing that Trump lacks the authority to prosecute such a war. But he, and the American public, should be aware of what’s at stake.



T

 

[Issa]

So if tariffs don’t work, then why is China doing it?

China loses in any trade war, they are far more dependent on our willingness to buy their crap.

All we need to do is make deals with other countries waiting for our business....we lose nothing but liberals can't understand that

Trump burned all those bridges.
Africa? He called them shithole countries and China is involved heavily there.
Asia? Belongs more and more to China.
Our neighbours ? Mexico is pissed off so is canada
By the time he ends his second year we will be isolated.

You underestimate what this nations economic ability actually is from within. Why do you think China or anyone else trades so heavily with us ? It ain't because we love Chinese products so much, but it's because they love us buying our own products being built there by Chinese cheap labor for American corporations who use that nation to screw over this nation on jobs in order to enrich themselves at the expense of the security of this nation.

China loves our money, and especially the Chinese military who has been using that money in order to build up it's military idustrial complex.

Our economy would sky rocket if we turned to within to create our own products again, and drive our own economic freedom once again.

Why do you think our industry leaders have been so into this world trade the way that they have been ? They could care less if this nation was to become a vast rural land with mansions and ranches tucked away in out of seen places, where Americans are used as cheap labor or rather foreigners are brought in to be used as cheap servants in a pipe dream the globalist are trying to make a reality out of ?

When will the sheeple learn that they have been screwed over and lied to in their lives, when ???

That train left the station long time ago. Americans don't make stuff anymore...goodluck getting obese uneducated rednecks making stuff. You guys still wanna use coal LOL.

 

[busybee01]

Maybe Jim Cramer should be running for office instead of shilling for CNBC. Who cares what Cramer thinks?

Cramer is a con man and an idiot. His stock picks are almost always losers.

He could buy and sell you BOY. He has had plenty of winners BOY.

 

[busybee01]

Yeah, uh-huh, then perhaps you'd like to explain the fact that China has become a world economic power and has had a thriving economy for years behind the protection of high tariffs.

They are hardly a economic power outside of GDP. The per capita income is more in line with a third world. They build public projects not because they are needed but to keep people busy.

 

[edward37]

Yeah, uh-huh, then perhaps you'd like to explain the fact that China has become a world economic power and has had a thriving economy for years behind the protection of high tariffs.

They are hardly a economic power outside of GDP. The per capita income is more in line with a third world. They build public projects not because they are needed but to keep people busy.

they over produce and then dump