Could We Please Stop Calling Obama, Reid, and Pelosi Liberals?

[Newby]

Immanuel- do you see a conflict of interest between Obama giving $2 billion to Acorn and Obama spending government money to pay for windmills made by the same people who run the news networks, which all supported him?

He didn't give $2 billion to Acorn. That's another urban myth. Get your nose out of those right-wing viral blogsites and you might learn the truth. The money is set aside in the Stimulus Bill for the redevelopment of abandoned and forclosed homes in the form of Community Development Block Grants, which Acorn has the chance to bid for just like any other interested contractor.

You really need to do a little investigative work. Acorn works with hundreds of advocasy groups that funnel money to them.

A snippet from Beck's show who's been looking into Acorn and its affiliates.

Later on in the week, I had some much more reasonable people from ACORN on the program. They gave us an insider look at the kinds of problems they ran into just by asking simple questions to ACORN's leadership.

We learned from these current and former ACORN members that ACORN actively looks to hire people from prison. Why? Here's how Washington, D.C.'s ACORN Chair Marcel Reid explained it:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCEL REID, ACORN: The very same people they were supposed to be enabling are the same people that we sacrificed. So, we can't have that kind of divisiveness there. If we're out to help people, who works for $9 an hour all day long or less? Who works for that kind of money? If you're empowered and if you're not an idealist student or retiree who has a very cushy life, you can't afford to work for that kind of money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Our guests went on to explain how these people are basically forced to meet quotas, which led to some of them registering "Mickey Mouse" or other fake names over and over again. When ACORN got caught, these people were thrown to the wolves. They explained that this was the protocol for two reasons: First, even if the form said "Mickey Mouse," they still got paid. And second, if the person they threw to the wolves was black, they could always pull the race card. That could help them raise money in these communities by saying, "Look at the evil, conservative, white man keeping the black man down."

Then we unraveled the fact that while ACORN claims not to accept government funding, $10 million in federal money was funneled to them through other organizations just last year.

But ACORN receives a lot more money than that and most of it is virtually impossible to trace. Because of that, the "ACORN 8" started asking questions and they didn't like what they found:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID: ACORN doesn't need to be funded with any more taxpayer dollars until we find out what happened to the last taxpayer dollars that ACORN was funded with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

While we don't yet know what's really going on, we do know these ACORN affiliates have powerful friends, like the SEIU — the Service Employees International Union. Actually, they're even more than friends; they're swapping so much spit they're riddled with mono.

The head of ACORN, Wade Rathke, is the founder and chief organizer of SEIU, which donated $33 million to President Obama's campaign last year.

We also know that the place the main ACORN affiliate calls home in New Orleans, is supposed to house about 270 related organizations, a mix of corporations and non-profits from California to Louisiana.

Does that former funeral home look big enough to you to house 270 organizations? The owner of the building is a company whose partners are — oh my gosh! — Wade and Dale Rathke (name sounds familiar?)

As I told you earlier, Wade also happens to be the president of ACORN and he and his brother Dale — who's accused of embezzling $1 million — are listed as president or partner in dozens of companies based in that building in New Orleans.

So that's what we know so far. But the big question remains unanswered: Millions of dollars flow into that building every year; where does it go?

 

[MaggieMae]

Off topic, but you know, when you bunch up a whole bunch of quotes from different people, then give your response to each, it gets so convoluted and messy, I for one don't even bother reading it.

excuse me if you can't follow along.

You're forgiven. I know it's the style many prefer, but I think it's easier on the eyes to just quote, then highlight a response thereto. But I realize if that all gets re-copied, it really messes it up, so you do your thing and I'll do mine.

 

[MaggieMae]

Immanuel- do you see a conflict of interest between Obama giving $2 billion to Acorn and Obama spending government money to pay for windmills made by the same people who run the news networks, which all supported him?

He didn't give $2 billion to Acorn. That's another urban myth. Get your nose out of those right-wing viral blogsites and you might learn the truth. The money is set aside in the Stimulus Bill for the redevelopment of abandoned and forclosed homes in the form of Community Development Block Grants, which Acorn has the chance to bid for just like any other interested contractor.

You really need to do a little investigative work. Acorn works with hundreds of advocasy groups that funnel money to them.

A snippet from Beck's show who's been looking into Acorn and its affiliates.

Later on in the week, I had some much more reasonable people from ACORN on the program. They gave us an insider look at the kinds of problems they ran into just by asking simple questions to ACORN's leadership.

We learned from these current and former ACORN members that ACORN actively looks to hire people from prison. Why? Here's how Washington, D.C.'s ACORN Chair Marcel Reid explained it:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCEL REID, ACORN: The very same people they were supposed to be enabling are the same people that we sacrificed. So, we can't have that kind of divisiveness there. If we're out to help people, who works for $9 an hour all day long or less? Who works for that kind of money? If you're empowered and if you're not an idealist student or retiree who has a very cushy life, you can't afford to work for that kind of money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Our guests went on to explain how these people are basically forced to meet quotas, which led to some of them registering "Mickey Mouse" or other fake names over and over again. When ACORN got caught, these people were thrown to the wolves. They explained that this was the protocol for two reasons: First, even if the form said "Mickey Mouse," they still got paid. And second, if the person they threw to the wolves was black, they could always pull the race card. That could help them raise money in these communities by saying, "Look at the evil, conservative, white man keeping the black man down."

Then we unraveled the fact that while ACORN claims not to accept government funding, $10 million in federal money was funneled to them through other organizations just last year.

But ACORN receives a lot more money than that and most of it is virtually impossible to trace. Because of that, the "ACORN 8" started asking questions and they didn't like what they found:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID: ACORN doesn't need to be funded with any more taxpayer dollars until we find out what happened to the last taxpayer dollars that ACORN was funded with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

While we don't yet know what's really going on, we do know these ACORN affiliates have powerful friends, like the SEIU — the Service Employees International Union. Actually, they're even more than friends; they're swapping so much spit they're riddled with mono.

The head of ACORN, Wade Rathke, is the founder and chief organizer of SEIU, which donated $33 million to President Obama's campaign last year.

We also know that the place the main ACORN affiliate calls home in New Orleans, is supposed to house about 270 related organizations, a mix of corporations and non-profits from California to Louisiana.

Does that former funeral home look big enough to you to house 270 organizations? The owner of the building is a company whose partners are — oh my gosh! — Wade and Dale Rathke (name sounds familiar?)

As I told you earlier, Wade also happens to be the president of ACORN and he and his brother Dale — who's accused of embezzling $1 million — are listed as president or partner in dozens of companies based in that building in New Orleans.

So that's what we know so far. But the big question remains unanswered: Millions of dollars flow into that building every year; where does it go?

All of that means squat. Acorn must bid on the grant money available. If and when Acorn is actually awarded the bulk of the $2 billion in grants, then get back to me.

As for their past practices regarding voter registrations, my suggestion to Beck, et al., is to get over it. It's a story Fox wants to keep alive because they don't really have much more going for them.

 

[Immanuel]

It's a story Fox wants to keep alive because they don't really have much more going for them.

What you mean they are not still hounding on the Wanda Sykes joke?

Immie

 

[Newby]

He didn't give $2 billion to Acorn. That's another urban myth. Get your nose out of those right-wing viral blogsites and you might learn the truth. The money is set aside in the Stimulus Bill for the redevelopment of abandoned and forclosed homes in the form of Community Development Block Grants, which Acorn has the chance to bid for just like any other interested contractor.

You really need to do a little investigative work. Acorn works with hundreds of advocasy groups that funnel money to them.

A snippet from Beck's show who's been looking into Acorn and its affiliates.

Later on in the week, I had some much more reasonable people from ACORN on the program. They gave us an insider look at the kinds of problems they ran into just by asking simple questions to ACORN's leadership.

We learned from these current and former ACORN members that ACORN actively looks to hire people from prison. Why? Here's how Washington, D.C.'s ACORN Chair Marcel Reid explained it:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCEL REID, ACORN: The very same people they were supposed to be enabling are the same people that we sacrificed. So, we can't have that kind of divisiveness there. If we're out to help people, who works for $9 an hour all day long or less? Who works for that kind of money? If you're empowered and if you're not an idealist student or retiree who has a very cushy life, you can't afford to work for that kind of money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Our guests went on to explain how these people are basically forced to meet quotas, which led to some of them registering "Mickey Mouse" or other fake names over and over again. When ACORN got caught, these people were thrown to the wolves. They explained that this was the protocol for two reasons: First, even if the form said "Mickey Mouse," they still got paid. And second, if the person they threw to the wolves was black, they could always pull the race card. That could help them raise money in these communities by saying, "Look at the evil, conservative, white man keeping the black man down."

Then we unraveled the fact that while ACORN claims not to accept government funding, $10 million in federal money was funneled to them through other organizations just last year.

But ACORN receives a lot more money than that and most of it is virtually impossible to trace. Because of that, the "ACORN 8" started asking questions and they didn't like what they found:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID: ACORN doesn't need to be funded with any more taxpayer dollars until we find out what happened to the last taxpayer dollars that ACORN was funded with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

While we don't yet know what's really going on, we do know these ACORN affiliates have powerful friends, like the SEIU — the Service Employees International Union. Actually, they're even more than friends; they're swapping so much spit they're riddled with mono.

The head of ACORN, Wade Rathke, is the founder and chief organizer of SEIU, which donated $33 million to President Obama's campaign last year.

We also know that the place the main ACORN affiliate calls home in New Orleans, is supposed to house about 270 related organizations, a mix of corporations and non-profits from California to Louisiana.

Does that former funeral home look big enough to you to house 270 organizations? The owner of the building is a company whose partners are — oh my gosh! — Wade and Dale Rathke (name sounds familiar?)

As I told you earlier, Wade also happens to be the president of ACORN and he and his brother Dale — who's accused of embezzling $1 million — are listed as president or partner in dozens of companies based in that building in New Orleans.

So that's what we know so far. But the big question remains unanswered: Millions of dollars flow into that building every year; where does it go?

All of that means squat. Acorn must bid on the grant money available. If and when Acorn is actually awarded the bulk of the $2 billion in grants, then get back to me.

As for their past practices regarding voter registrations, my suggestion to Beck, et al., is to get over it. It's a story Fox wants to keep alive because they don't really have much more going for them.

The old lefty fall back, Fox News isn't legitimate, nevermind that they're the leading newscast in the country.

And how convenient to ignore all of that. Let's all shove our heads into the collective sand. That article clearly shows how ACORN is getting its hands on all of that lovely money, if you want to play stupid and pretend that they're not, it's not surprising. Reality is tough to deal with at times.

 

[Meister]

He didn't give $2 billion to Acorn. That's another urban myth. Get your nose out of those right-wing viral blogsites and you might learn the truth. The money is set aside in the Stimulus Bill for the redevelopment of abandoned and forclosed homes in the form of Community Development Block Grants, which Acorn has the chance to bid for just like any other interested contractor.

You really need to do a little investigative work. Acorn works with hundreds of advocasy groups that funnel money to them.

A snippet from Beck's show who's been looking into Acorn and its affiliates.

Later on in the week, I had some much more reasonable people from ACORN on the program. They gave us an insider look at the kinds of problems they ran into just by asking simple questions to ACORN's leadership.

We learned from these current and former ACORN members that ACORN actively looks to hire people from prison. Why? Here's how Washington, D.C.'s ACORN Chair Marcel Reid explained it:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCEL REID, ACORN: The very same people they were supposed to be enabling are the same people that we sacrificed. So, we can't have that kind of divisiveness there. If we're out to help people, who works for $9 an hour all day long or less? Who works for that kind of money? If you're empowered and if you're not an idealist student or retiree who has a very cushy life, you can't afford to work for that kind of money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Our guests went on to explain how these people are basically forced to meet quotas, which led to some of them registering "Mickey Mouse" or other fake names over and over again. When ACORN got caught, these people were thrown to the wolves. They explained that this was the protocol for two reasons: First, even if the form said "Mickey Mouse," they still got paid. And second, if the person they threw to the wolves was black, they could always pull the race card. That could help them raise money in these communities by saying, "Look at the evil, conservative, white man keeping the black man down."

Then we unraveled the fact that while ACORN claims not to accept government funding, $10 million in federal money was funneled to them through other organizations just last year.

But ACORN receives a lot more money than that and most of it is virtually impossible to trace. Because of that, the "ACORN 8" started asking questions and they didn't like what they found:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID: ACORN doesn't need to be funded with any more taxpayer dollars until we find out what happened to the last taxpayer dollars that ACORN was funded with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

While we don't yet know what's really going on, we do know these ACORN affiliates have powerful friends, like the SEIU — the Service Employees International Union. Actually, they're even more than friends; they're swapping so much spit they're riddled with mono.

The head of ACORN, Wade Rathke, is the founder and chief organizer of SEIU, which donated $33 million to President Obama's campaign last year.

We also know that the place the main ACORN affiliate calls home in New Orleans, is supposed to house about 270 related organizations, a mix of corporations and non-profits from California to Louisiana.

Does that former funeral home look big enough to you to house 270 organizations? The owner of the building is a company whose partners are — oh my gosh! — Wade and Dale Rathke (name sounds familiar?)

As I told you earlier, Wade also happens to be the president of ACORN and he and his brother Dale — who's accused of embezzling $1 million — are listed as president or partner in dozens of companies based in that building in New Orleans.

So that's what we know so far. But the big question remains unanswered: Millions of dollars flow into that building every year; where does it go?

All of that means squat. Acorn must bid on the grant money available. If and when Acorn is actually awarded the bulk of the $2 billion in grants, then get back to me.

As for their past practices regarding voter registrations, my suggestion to Beck, et al., is to get over it. It's a story Fox wants to keep alive because they don't really have much more going for them.

Why? If it's a legitimate story....

 

[Newby]

Here's another interesting article involving the SEIU and Obama. Remember up above I showed that the head of ACORN, Wade Rathke, is the founder and chief organizer of SEIU, which donated $33 million to President Obama's campaign last year.

George F. Will - The Obama Administration's Economic Lawlessness

Tincture of Lawlessness
Obama's Overreaching Economic Policies

By George F. Will
Thursday, May 14, 2009



Anyone, said T.S. Eliot, could carve a goose, were it not for the bones. And anyone could govern as boldly as his whims decreed, were it not for the skeletal structure that keeps civil society civil -- the rule of law. The Obama administration is bold. It also is careless regarding constitutional values and is acquiring a tincture of lawlessness.

In February, California's Democratic-controlled Legislature, faced with a $42 billion budget deficit, trimmed $74 million (1.4 percent) from one of the state's fastest-growing programs, which provides care for low-income and incapacitated elderly people and which cost the state $5.42 billion last year. The Los Angeles Times reports that "loose oversight and bureaucratic inertia have allowed fraud to fester."

But the Service Employees International Union collects nearly $5 million a month from 223,000 caregivers who are members. And the Obama administration has told California that unless the $74 million in cuts are rescinded, it will deny the state $6.8 billion in stimulus money.


Such a federal ukase (the word derives from czarist Russia; how appropriate) to a state legislature is a sign of the administration's dependency agenda -- maximizing the number of people and institutions dependent on the federal government. For the first time, neither sales nor property nor income taxes are the largest source of money for state and local governments. The federal government is.


The SEIU says the cuts violate contracts negotiated with counties. California officials say the state required the contracts to contain clauses allowing pay to be reduced if state funding is.

Story continues....

 

[MaggieMae]

It's a story Fox wants to keep alive because they don't really have much more going for them.

What you mean they are not still hounding on the Wanda Sykes joke?

Immie

No, I mean ever since last summer, fall and early winter during the primaries and to date, there's rarely a FOX news broadcast that doesn't mention ACORN, in my opinion, just to keep their fans all riled up.

 

[AllieBaba]

It's a criminal organization that works for the left. It should be reported whenever it or anyone associated with it commits a crime until it's shut down finally and forever, and the thugs who support it are in jail where they belong.

 

[MaggieMae]

You really need to do a little investigative work. Acorn works with hundreds of advocasy groups that funnel money to them.

A snippet from Beck's show who's been looking into Acorn and its affiliates.

All of that means squat. Acorn must bid on the grant money available. If and when Acorn is actually awarded the bulk of the $2 billion in grants, then get back to me.

As for their past practices regarding voter registrations, my suggestion to Beck, et al., is to get over it. It's a story Fox wants to keep alive because they don't really have much more going for them.

The old lefty fall back, Fox News isn't legitimate, nevermind that they're the leading newscast in the country.

And how convenient to ignore all of that. Let's all shove our heads into the collective sand. That article clearly shows how ACORN is getting its hands on all of that lovely money, if you want to play stupid and pretend that they're not, it's not surprising. Reality is tough to deal with at times.

Then prove that Beck's allegations are the grant money contained in the Stim Bill. Link to HIS proof, please and not some contrived opinionated "debate."

I'm not claiming Acorn didn't violate the law in the past, and it needed a smackdown. They've been sued and lost some and won some over the voter registration thing, but to continue on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, like Acorn continues on a daily basis to rob you and/or defraud the government is pure horseshit. You guys eat it up like candy. You'd think to listen to the frothing Glenn Beck and the rest of the rabid hacks at Fox carp on this crap every day, that Acorn was the ONLY special interest advocacy group going. They ALL push the envelope. Get real.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's a criminal organization that works for the left. It should be reported whenever it or anyone associated with it commits a crime until it's shut down finally and forever, and the thugs who support it are in jail where they belong.

Where's your proof, other than Glenn Beck, et al., that Acorn is a "criminal" organization?

 

[Hillbilly]

Do we need any other proof? True is true. And why did the liberals not hate Beck when he was at CNN?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Look. I'm a liberal. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are left-leaning centrists. If someone has voted the way Obama, Reid, and Pelosi have, they aren't liberals; they're centrists.

Think of politics as a spectrum. Chomsky is a liberal, Nader is a liberal, the Green Party is liberal, but Democrats are not liberals. Democrats are centrists. Some Democrats voted for the Patriot Act for God's sakes! That isn't liberal. That's as right-wing as you can get from a liberal point of view. Anybody who doesn't immediately act to stop waterboarding isn't liberal. Anybody who supports clean coal isn't liberal. Anybody who maintains a military presence in Afghanistan isn't liberal. Anybody who bails out Wallstreet and the big national banks isn't liberal. If the spectrum goes from blue to red, then liberals are ultra-violet; anyone in the blue is just a liberalistic centrist with some right-wing tendencies.

I know that those of you who see politics from the right-side of the spectrum perceive centrists as liberals, but remember: you have to adjust for bias. Its called Kentucky windage.

Colorada....you can believe this shit all you want.....NANCY PELOSI IS AS FUCKING FAR LEFT WING AS IT GETS.....end of story.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Good point. I wonder what Obama's ideology is? Sure, we can think its what the media has represented to us, or even by what we can contrive from Obama's statements, but is that really what he believes or just how he represents himself?

well i for one feel that if you voted for the guy,this far into the game Colorada should not have to ask the question he asked.....i mean ive heard this from other Obama supporters....and IF say, a good percentage of supporters are asking who this guy really is....how are the non-Obomers supposed to feel about the guy?.......just askin...♠

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Yeah... as stated.. you don't just go doing things like that without knowing or associating with the person first... Obama supporters and Obama scurried to cover tracks from that one.. as well as being on the same executive board, etc...

It it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, lays eggs like a duck, swims like a duck, and tastes like a duck.. odds are it's a duck

Do things like what, exactly? Just because you threw a goose into a pond with a bunch of ducks, doesn't mean its a duck. But do keep making shit up. Hes the president now, and all the righty lies in the world can't stop him now.

Either way, it is Fowl!

(Unrepentant punster attack!)

I find 0bama and his cronies to be very scary left wing loonies. 0bama seems to have read the same page of Machiavelli as Castro and Pol Pot. You notice that every time there is a danger of the economy getting the least bit better, he talks it down some more? I think he is working on driving things down to increase his power base, like he did to California over the State Employees union issue, and like what happened to GM and Chrysler. Smash things flat, then use the taxpayers money to buy, not votes, but power where he does not belong.

Really, the deal here is not left or right. He is power hungry, and does not care or know that much about ideology. If he can get other people all bothered about labels, while he does his brings more power to himself, then he makes his real success. The economy up or down doesn't matter to him. Going down makes his job easier, as it did for Hitler and Stalin and Castro. But it really is irrelevant to what makes him tick. And if you get all weird about labels, the better for him.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Good point. I wonder what Obama's ideology is? Sure, we can think its what the media has represented to us, or even by what we can contrive from Obama's statements, but is that really what he believes or just how he represents himself?

well i for one feel that if you voted for the guy,this far into the game Colorada should not have to ask the question he asked.....i mean ive heard this from other Obama supporters....and IF say, a good percentage of supporters are asking who this guy really is....how are the non-Obomers supposed to feel about the guy?.......just askin...♠

I'm a liberal, Harry. Who do think I was gonna vote for? McCain/Palin?!?! HA! I would've voted for the Green Party or Nader, but I'm not going to make the same mistake I did in 2000.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm a liberal, Harry. Who do think I was gonna vote for? McCain/Palin?!?! HA! I would've voted for the Green Party or Nader, but I'm not going to make the same mistake I did in 2000.

i understand that....but you should not be wondering what this guy believes in,you should basically know what he is about...but apparently,you and many more who supported him ....dont....thats all i am saying....one of the reasons i did not even consider the guy (and no i did not vote for McCain,i did not give him any consideration also).....if a guy running for office, wont just stand up there and come clean on questions about him....he wont get me voting for them....

 

[JohnStOnge]

Colorado is right though, they are not liberals, and Immie, there are more positions than liberal and conservative, many more, a rainbow of positions if you may.

Kitten, Obama is a liberal. He may not be as far to that end of the spectrum as Colorado is. But anybody who says this about the Warren Court is a liberal:

"But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf."

As I wrote in another thread, he put that "at least as it's been interpreted" in there. But he knows, you know, I know, and everybody who has paid any attention knows that the "Founding Fathers" did intend for the Constitution to include those "essential constraints" he mentioned.

 

[KittenKoder]

Colorado is right though, they are not liberals, and Immie, there are more positions than liberal and conservative, many more, a rainbow of positions if you may.

Kitten, Obama is a liberal. He may not be as far to that end of the spectrum as Colorado is. But anybody who says this about the Warren Court is a liberal:

"But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf."

As I wrote in another thread, he put that "at least as it's been interpreted" in there. But he knows, you know, I know, and everybody who has paid any attention knows that the "Founding Fathers" did intend for the Constitution to include those "essential constraints" he mentioned.

That's not what liberalism is about though, see, it's a rainbow. I'm a liberal in many areas, support true equality, seek a utopia, and work toward a balance between humanity and the earth (not the same as environuts though). Liberal is about freedom, neolibs are about oppression, they are not liberals. However, the biggest difference, no self respecting liberal would ever support any form of censorship, period. Anyone who supports any censorship is NOT a liberal.

 

[garyd]

What we call liberals in this country are leftists.

How to tell a leftist>

79% of the Budget spent on social programs - which the federal government is constituionally prohibited from engaging in - and the 21% spent on the military and leftist blame the 21% for the deficit

1.5 trillion dollars lost by the Pentagon in eight years under Clinton and it's Bush's fault for not finding it.

If Bush spends shit loads of money on social spending and pork that's bad but if Obama spends shit loads of money on social programs and pork its good according to leftist.

If it sounds retarded, convoluted and is going to cost scandalous amounts of money and almost certainly won't solve the problem it's probably a leftist social program.