Zone1 Could Humans Survive a Nuclear War Between Nato and Russia?

Even if we take the Wiki number, it remains over 40 years.

There is nothing to indicate that the Russians have working nuclear missiles. It's like the kid left a bunch of guns by his dad who leaves them in the rain for 20 years. At one time they were effective.
There is nothing to indicate that they DONT have functioning nukes.
 
I don't really want to find out.
I think if Russia was to open up its nuclear playbook, they'd most likely start with something low-yield and tactical, if for no other reason to gauge how the world reacts—especially nations such as China and Iran who, if they're not really with them, aren't as vigorously against them. Afterward, there would be a lot of condemnation from NATO and some very strongly worded press releases, and probably some sanctions, but I'm not convinced anyone else would respond in kind.
If the world let a nuclear weapons state get away with using nuclear weapons in an act of aggression against a non-nuclear weapons state, that would be the end of the NPT. All the nations of the world would develop nuclear weapons.

Then it would only be a matter of time before someone somewhere launched a catastrophic nuclear war that pulled down the rest of humanity.

NATO may not necessary nuke Russia if Russia nukes Ukraine, but whatever NATO does in response will have to be forceful and significant enough that no one dares to do such a thing to a non-nuclear weapons state ever again. Not merely press releases and sanctions.
 
Scenario: Russia targets New York, the ICBM detonates on the launch pad and wipes out Novograd. Russia blames USA for unprovoked first strike.
China fires an ICBM and destroys San Francisco, saying they are retaliating for the strike on Novograd,
The USA responds with MOAB's over Moscow and Beijing
Your scenario goes off the rails at this point. The US would respond with hundreds of nuclear warheads against Russia and hundreds of nuclear warheads against China. Mostly against military targets, but China would lose one of their most important cities.


America has developed non-nuclear ordinance that on hypersonic missiles can do the damage of nukes without the fallout. MOABS + hypersonic = nukes not needed.
America is closer to developing hypersonic missiles than anyone else, but we don't have them yet. And neither does anyone else.

No hypersonic missile will ever be able to carry a MOAB. But even if it could, it would not even come remotely close to the power of a nuclear weapon.

If Russia or China nukes a NATO target, we will respond with nuclear weapons, and massively so.


Russia using low yield nukes against Ukraine will not trigger a nuclear response from America.
Perhaps, but our response would be forceful and highly significant.
 
No, Dayton3 is correct. "Nuclear Winter" has been dead since the 80's.

That is incorrect. The scientific community continues to support nuclear winter to this day.
 
Well you obviously know about their hypersonic weapons. Funnily enough I was listening to some on the tele today saying why Russia was going to win this war and Hypersonic weapons, something you are apparently several years off making is the most important weapons they gave.
Russia is further away from developing hypersonic weapons than the US is.

And even if they had them, that wouldn't help them defeat Ukraine.
 
We know North Korea has nukes - how?
We know China has nukes - how?
We know India has nukes - how?
We know Pakistan has nukes - how?

But all the evidence that shows us the above have nukes, isn't there with Russia.
You make a WILDLY prosterous claim that Russia doesnt have any nukes and your evidence is...?
 
That is incorrect. The scientific community continues to support nuclear winter to this day.
No, the "scientific community" does not support the hypothesis. You sound exactly like a global warming cultist when you make that claim.

There is no empirical evidence to support the 150-180Tg theory, and much reason to dismiss it- e.g. the observed effects of forest fires and vulcanism.

I'm not interested in parsing global warming models and forcing assumptions, so believe what you wish. There is no "nuclear winter" in the US or Russian nuclear doctrine, which should tell you something.

This was put out by a group from Los Alamos, and addresses one of the studies in your link (they all used the same assumptions from Toon wrt the soot aloft).

 
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I'm saying that the nukes left behind by the Soviets are no longer functional because of neglect by the Russian federation - pretty much like everything else in Russia.
Yes, i know. It is a wildly preposterous claim.
 
No, the "scientific community" does not support the hypothesis.
Scientists keep putting out studies that support it.


You sound exactly like a global warming cultist when you make that claim.
Science is not a cult.


There is no empirical evidence to support the 150-180Tg theory,
There is no empirical evidence on the issue at all, either for or against. Much like global warming.


and much reason to dismiss it- e.g. the observed effects of forest fires and vulcanism.
Also reason to believe it, like various computer models that scientists run.


I'm not interested in parsing global warming models and forcing assumptions, so believe what you wish. There is no "nuclear winter" in the US or Russian nuclear doctrine, which should tell you something.
It tells me that they are only interested in direct blast effects.


This was put out by a group from Los Alamos, and addresses one of the studies in your link (they all used the same assumptions from Toon wrt the soot aloft).
Even if they are right, the fallout from a large nuclear war will still shorten everyone's lives for centuries. And the general societal collapse and loss of transportation networks will still result in a lot of starvation immediately after the war.
 
That is a LOT of nukes.

Unlikely that more than 40 or 50 could be launched before both sides were destroyed.

Scenario: Russia targets New York, the ICBM detonates on the launch pad and wipes out Novograd. Russia blames USA for unprovoked first strike.

China fires an ICBM and destroys San Francisco, saying they are retaliating for the strike on Novograd,

The USA responds with MOAB's over Moscow and Beijing

Israel nukes Mecca.

China invades Taiwan

The USA hits Shanghai with 3 MOABS

Taiwan repels Chinese invaders

Russia uses a dirty bomb in London after 6 more failed attempts to launch an ICBM.

Britain and France hit St. Petersburg and Minsk with nukes.

Russia sues for peace

South Korea invades the north and reunites the nation.

Hong Kong declares independence.

In that entire timeline, only 5 nukes used.
More likely Scenario.-- Russia gets defeated ,but NATO crosses the line. So Russia ,in a fit of rage ,launches 1000. Before they land ,the USA counters with a "Full ,retaliatory attack". China ,India ,Israel ,and NATO joins in. And what is left dies of radiation poisoning on the Beaches of Australia. POOF!
 
NATO has no nukes,, and Putin has already backed off his threat, since he would wipe himself out if he were to start throwing them around. France and Britain have their own nuclear policies, more aggressive than ours, since they are much closer, so all the sniveling about the U.S. is just hysteria.

Of course, with the right wingers suddenly channeling Jane Fonda and babbling the same idiot shit the left wing used to babble, Cuz Biden N Stuff, Putin could of course renew his extortion threat after all, thanks to weakness in the West in the 21st Century's first colonial expansionism war, where even most of Africa is now fine with colonial adventurism, going by the recent UN votes.
 
I'm saying that the nukes left behind by the Soviets are no longer functional because of neglect by the Russian federation - pretty much like everything else in Russia.

They probably have some tactical nukes, but yeah the ICBM threat is pretty small. As for the assorted left wing think tank claims with all the Big Scary Numbers, those are in the same category as the claims Russia has 25,000 tanks, when they have maybe, with luck, 2,000 or so actually functional with the rest rusting away in big junkyards.
 

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