Could Holocaust & WW have been avoided by peace in 1940?

[Bleipriester]

That should be a general question among historians and interested people.
If France and Great Britain Would would not have declared war on Germany, would there ever have been the World War Two and the Holocaust?
How would things run in Europe with the NSDAP Government in charge from that point?

 

[Old Rocks]

Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bleipriester]

Once I read a novel about a similar situation. Forgot the name, but was interesting.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Holocaust began long before the war proper did.

 

[Bleipriester]

Holocaust began long before the war proper did.

That´s a widespread false assumption.

 

[bendog]

Holocaust began long before the war proper did.

That´s a widespread false assumption.

Nah, the national socialist party was inherently anti-Jewish and planned extermination was the plan all along

Kristallnacht - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The book you refer to might be Fatherland by Richard Harris

WWI did not settle the issue of European Empires, nor did it settle the issues of Germany's economic growth. You might have a different result had there been a less punishing conclusion to WWI.

 

[Bleipriester]

Holocaust began long before the war proper did.

That´s a widespread false assumption.

Nah, the national socialist party was inherently anti-Jewish and planned extermination was the plan all along

Kristallnacht - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The book you refer to might be Fatherland by Richard Harris

WWI did not settle the issue of European Empires, nor did it settle the issues of Germany's economic growth. You might have a different result had there been a less punishing conclusion to WWI.

The Kristallnacht is not the Holocaust, as an anti-semitic atmosphere is not a holocaust.

 

[bendog]

Holocaust began long before the war proper did.

That´s a widespread false assumption.

Nah, the national socialist party was inherently anti-Jewish and planned extermination was the plan all along

Kristallnacht - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The book you refer to might be Fatherland by Richard Harris

WWI did not settle the issue of European Empires, nor did it settle the issues of Germany's economic growth. You might have a different result had there been a less punishing conclusion to WWI.

The Kristallnacht is not the Holocaust, as an anti-semitic atmosphere is not a holocaust.

Ah, Hitler was always going to burn the Jews. The only way to avoid the holocaust was to avoid the national socialists. We might have had the holocaust and no WWII in wester Europe ... assuming the western european democracies surrendered peacefully.

WWI left Germany with no way to grow an economy, and Japan was denied any expansion by FDR's policies. Post-WWII both issues were addressed. To avoid WWII, one or both had to be addressed without war.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The Holocaust happened, the war happened, trying to rewrite a hypothetical history is fruitless mental masturbation.

 

[bendog]

The Holocaust happened, the war happened, trying to rewrite a hypothetical history is fruitless mental masturbation.

Well, true to a point. But it's not necessarily fruitless to look to why something really bad happened so as to avoid getting into the same situation again.

Thinking the Nazis were ever going to not burn the Jews and try to conquer Western Europe and the East through Moscow ... is at best fruitless.

 

[konradv]

Holocaust began long before the war proper did.

That´s a widespread false assumption.

Nah, the national socialist party was inherently anti-Jewish and planned extermination was the plan all along

Kristallnacht - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The book you refer to might be Fatherland by Richard Harris

WWI did not settle the issue of European Empires, nor did it settle the issues of Germany's economic growth. You might have a different result had there been a less punishing conclusion to WWI.

The Kristallnacht is not the Holocaust, as an anti-semitic atmosphere is not a holocaust.

As long as Jews were killed because they were Jews, it was the start. It was more than just atmosphere.

 

[Bleipriester]

Holocaust began long before the war proper did.

That´s a widespread false assumption.

Nah, the national socialist party was inherently anti-Jewish and planned extermination was the plan all along

Kristallnacht - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The book you refer to might be Fatherland by Richard Harris

WWI did not settle the issue of European Empires, nor did it settle the issues of Germany's economic growth. You might have a different result had there been a less punishing conclusion to WWI.

The Kristallnacht is not the Holocaust, as an anti-semitic atmosphere is not a holocaust.

Ah, Hitler was always going to burn the Jews. The only way to avoid the holocaust was to avoid the national socialists. We might have had the holocaust and no WWII in wester Europe ... assuming the western european democracies surrendered peacefully.

WWI left Germany with no way to grow an economy, and Japan was denied any expansion by FDR's policies. Post-WWII both issues were addressed. To avoid WWII, one or both had to be addressed without war.

All countries´ economies were weaken by WWI but Germany manages to be Europe´s largest economy by 1925 despite numerous restrictions. If the holocaust could have happen without war, is doubtful as it would provoke a war anyway.

 

[whitehall]

Hitler came to power roughly the same time FDR was elected. Read "In the Garden of the Beasts" by Larson for an account of an FDR appointed ambassador to Germany prior to WW2. It seems that the FDR administration was well aware of the Holocaust but the only thing on the administration's agenda was collecting the debit owed to the US for WW1, Jews be dammed.

 

[oldfart]

That should be a general question among historians and interested people.
If France and Great Britain Would would not have declared war on Germany, would there ever have been the World War Two and the Holocaust?
How would things run in Europe with the NSDAP Government in charge from that point?

Germany invaded Poland in 1939, swept through Denmark, Norway, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands in early 1940. When exactly do you see an opportunity for peace?

 

[Bleipriester]

That should be a general question among historians and interested people.
If France and Great Britain Would would not have declared war on Germany, would there ever have been the World War Two and the Holocaust?
How would things run in Europe with the NSDAP Government in charge from that point?

Germany invaded Poland in 1939, swept through Denmark, Norway, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands in early 1940. When exactly do you see an opportunity for peace?

Poland invaded Czechia in 1938. Where was the justice?
Germany invaded France in 1940 after the French and British declarations of war. In that context, other countries needed to be occupied to secure the coastline.
Phoney War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Decus]

Germany invaded Poland in 1939, swept through Denmark, Norway, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands in early 1940. When exactly do you see an opportunity for peace?[/QUOTE]
Poland invaded Czechia in 1938. Where was the justice?
Germany invaded France in 1940 after the French and British declarations of war. In that context, other countries needed to be occupied to secure the coastline.
Phoney War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]

Chamberlain in 1938 allowed Hitler to annex a part of Czechoslovakia hoping to secure peace in Europe. Look up: "Munich Agreement". Hitler later called the document a "scrap of paper". Hitler being the sick bastard he was, was intent on going to war.

 

[Bleipriester]

Chamberlain in 1938 allowed Hitler to annex a part of Czechoslovakia hoping to secure peace in Europe. Look up: "Munich Agreement". Hitler later called the document a "scrap of paper". Hitler being the sick bastard he was, was intent on going to war.

Part of the Munich Agreement was the Polish invasion of parts of Czechia.

 

[Decus]

Chamberlain in 1938 allowed Hitler to annex a part of Czechoslovakia hoping to secure peace in Europe. Look up: "Munich Agreement". Hitler later called the document a "scrap of paper". Hitler being the sick bastard he was, was intent on going to war.

Part of the Munich Agreement was the Polish invasion of parts of Czechia.

What part of "sick bastard" don't you understand? Hitler was going to pull the trigger no matter what. Hitler had already annexed Austria in March 1938. Were the Austrians all Nazis? Many Austrians claim otherwise.

Regarding the Austrians: "The first crisis of 1938, over Austria, arose so suddenly that the Nazi leadership was itself caught unawares. It was triggered by the announcement on March 9 by the Austrian chancellor, Kurt von Schuschnigg, that there would be a plebiscite three days later to determine whether Austria would remain an independent country. The result would have been a foregone conclusion, but the plebiscite never took place. Incensed by Schuschnigg's move, Hitler reacted swiftly. On March 11 the Austrians were bullied into submission, Schuschnigg and the president, Wilhelm Miklas, forced to resign. Lord Halifax, the British foreign secretary, had told Schuschnigg that "his majesty's government are unable to guarantee protection".

Regarding Hitler's intent: "He did have a limited but inflexible framework of ideas that gave consistent direction to his leadership. Its twin tracks, embedded in a sense of race as the key determinant in history, were "removal" of the Jews and expansion to the east to obtain land to secure Germany's future."

The crisis of 1938 - some answers seventy years on Books The Guardian

 

[Bleipriester]

Chamberlain in 1938 allowed Hitler to annex a part of Czechoslovakia hoping to secure peace in Europe. Look up: "Munich Agreement". Hitler later called the document a "scrap of paper". Hitler being the sick bastard he was, was intent on going to war.

Part of the Munich Agreement was the Polish invasion of parts of Czechia.

What part of "sick bastard" don't you understand? Hitler was going to pull the trigger no matter what. Hitler had already annexed Austria in March 1938. Were the Austrians all Nazis? Many Austrians claim otherwise.

Regarding the Austrians: "The first crisis of 1938, over Austria, arose so suddenly that the Nazi leadership was itself caught unawares. It was triggered by the announcement on March 9 by the Austrian chancellor, Kurt von Schuschnigg, that there would be a plebiscite three days later to determine whether Austria would remain an independent country. The result would have been a foregone conclusion, but the plebiscite never took place. Incensed by Schuschnigg's move, Hitler reacted swiftly. On March 11 the Austrians were bullied into submission, Schuschnigg and the president, Wilhelm Miklas, forced to resign. Lord Halifax, the British foreign secretary, had told Schuschnigg that "his majesty's government are unable to guarantee protection".

Regarding Hitler's intent: "He did have a limited but inflexible framework of ideas that gave consistent direction to his leadership. Its twin tracks, embedded in a sense of race as the key determinant in history, were "removal" of the Jews and expansion to the east to obtain land to secure Germany's future."

The crisis of 1938 - some answers seventy years on Books The Guardian

Were the Germans all Nazis?

 

[Decus]

Chamberlain in 1938 allowed Hitler to annex a part of Czechoslovakia hoping to secure peace in Europe. Look up: "Munich Agreement". Hitler later called the document a "scrap of paper". Hitler being the sick bastard he was, was intent on going to war.

Part of the Munich Agreement was the Polish invasion of parts of Czechia.

What part of "sick bastard" don't you understand? Hitler was going to pull the trigger no matter what. Hitler had already annexed Austria in March 1938. Were the Austrians all Nazis? Many Austrians claim otherwise.

Regarding the Austrians: "The first crisis of 1938, over Austria, arose so suddenly that the Nazi leadership was itself caught unawares. It was triggered by the announcement on March 9 by the Austrian chancellor, Kurt von Schuschnigg, that there would be a plebiscite three days later to determine whether Austria would remain an independent country. The result would have been a foregone conclusion, but the plebiscite never took place. Incensed by Schuschnigg's move, Hitler reacted swiftly. On March 11 the Austrians were bullied into submission, Schuschnigg and the president, Wilhelm Miklas, forced to resign. Lord Halifax, the British foreign secretary, had told Schuschnigg that "his majesty's government are unable to guarantee protection".

Regarding Hitler's intent: "He did have a limited but inflexible framework of ideas that gave consistent direction to his leadership. Its twin tracks, embedded in a sense of race as the key determinant in history, were "removal" of the Jews and expansion to the east to obtain land to secure Germany's future."

The crisis of 1938 - some answers seventy years on Books The Guardian

Were the Germans all Nazis?

I don't believe so.